Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prince Pierre of Orléans

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all. We can certainly discuss whether being part of a (now) purely theoretical royal family should be notable, but merely asserting so without referring to applicable guidelines is a very weak argument. The notability guideline requires substantial coverage in reliable third party sources, which is not in evidence for these people. Sandstein 16:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Amendment: On the request of Mcferran (talk · contribs), I am reviewing the discussion again and amending the outcome to no consensus to delete with regard to Prince Pierre of Orléans only. See my talk page for the rationale. Sandstein 21:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prince Pierre of Orléans

Prince Pierre of Orléans (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Non-notable four year old here, should be deleted or merged as with many minor royals. See also recently Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Princess Tatiana of Leiningen for an example of someone over a decade older, who has arguably done more, but is not notable just because she is a princess. Charles 16:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following for the same reasons:
Prince Constantin of Orléans (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)
Philippe, duc de Valois (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)
Prince Moritz of Hesse (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (not even a year old and not notable)
Princess Paulina of Hesse (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (not even a year old and not notable)
  • Delete As nominator. Charles 19:41, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Unless France restores the monarchy, he isn't even a royal now. And in case France does bring back the monarchy, he's the first son of the third son of the man who would be King Henry. Just in case you care. When this kid plays "let's pretend" in kindergarten, he can't even be a decent pretender to the throne. Mandsford 17:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
    France being a republic doesn't change a royal into a non-royal. He can marry some royal princess and became a king in some other country. And such a marriage won't be morganatic. —V. Z. Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 21:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • He could, but he hasn't. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Charles 21:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • We don't operate in the past either. Nice try. Charles 14:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep His eldest uncle is mentally handicapped, and his second uncle is as-of-yet unmarried. There is a possibility that Pierre could eventually become the future comte de Paris. I would agree with deleting Constantin's article, and possibly Philippe's, but not Pierre's. Morhange 19:06, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry, but that was an incredibly weak argument and a stupid comment at that. Prince Andrew has extensive news coverage surrounding him, millions of people watched his wedding on TV and he is still in the public eye and has been for decades. Certainly not comparable and certainly an attempt to insult the intelligence of everyone else if you expect them to believe so. Charles 14:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep He is still the heir to the throne of France, and is absolutely a royal.Tim Foxworth 04:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tfoxworth (talk • contribs)
  • Merge to the articles of the respective parents. The redirects can be re-expanded into separate articles if and when one of them does something noteworthy. Choess 13:54, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
  • This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 10:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete or merge to his parents' article at most. Being a "royal" in a country with no monarchy isn't all that big of a deal, especially a toddler with no achievements to speak of. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 14:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. Most probably he is a future French king. To include him into the Wikipedia is only a question of time. —V. Z. Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 21:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia IS NOT A CRYSTAL BALL, people! We do not predict the future here. I'm a hardcore monarchist and even I think this is ridiculous! Charles 21:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
    I am a republican, but I acknowledge the lines of succession. In France there is the Salic law, that's why he won't be king only in case his uncle would have a son (highly improbable) or he himself dies. So his importance could be compared to Charles, Prince of Wales, most probably the future English & Scottish king. —V. Z. Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 21:51, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Don't simplify the Orléanist/Legitimist/Bonapartist situation. His importance is not comparable to Charles, the Prince of Wales. Charles 23:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Fourth in succession to a monarchy which was kicked out of power in the mid-19th century does not create notability for a four year old. Let's wait until he does something worthy of note in his life. Edison 14:17, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - third in line to the Orleanist claimant to France, and, unless Jean marries and has sons, the future Orleanist claimant himself; this makes him notable in my book. I agree that there is no need at present for articles on Constantin, Philippe, and Paulina - but I hesitate about Moritz (which just goes to show how inappropriate it is to combine AfDs for different people, especially from different families). Noel S McFerran 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Noel, Wikipedia does not predict the future. He could die tomorrow for all we know (God forbid though, as he is only a child). The rationale for combining AfDs is that these articles have no distinguishing features and have been argued, wrongly, to be notable on the same basis. If you feel it is inappropriate, then please vote individually, even if it means placing your vote under the other article name. The fact that they are agnates of different houses does not matter because they are each non-notable. Charles 18:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
In that case (and only in that case) his article shall be deleted. But now he is 4th in the lines and that makes him very important. Certainly more that a lot of Star Wars cruft. —V. Z. Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 00:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
No, it does not. Tell me where this child shows up other than in genealogies. Charles 01:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Since Charles asks, I will respond (knowing full well that he will have an answer). When Pierre was born, there was an article in Point de Vue, one of the most popular French weekly magazines. [1] When he was baptised there was a FOUR-PAGE spread; not many babies get that kind of coverage. While he may be only four-years old, Pierre is a rather special four-year old. Noel S McFerran 02:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Dunno if this helps, but here's a listing of the contents of that particular Point de Vue [2] where it mentions Pierre d'Orléans: baptême à Cannes Morhange 05:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
We all know that Charles thinks that each of these individuals is non-notable (he's told us so numerous times on this page). But other editors might not share his unanimity on this issue. Editors should be given the opportunity to vote on these individually. Noel S McFerran 18:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Then please do vote on them individually. Place your comments under the other nominations. Charles 19:16, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete all. Not notable. I concur with the delete arguments expressed above, I afraid. --Malcolmxl5 22:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep Prince Pierre of Orléans per Noel S McFerran and Prince Moritz of Hesse as he is second in line to the headship of the House of Hesse. Delete Constantin, Philippe and Paulina. - dwc lr 12:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.