Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Praeon Network

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Johnleemk | Talk 10:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Praeon Network, Allandor Rpg

NN gaming web site and one of its RPGs. Alexa rank of > 400,000 and no links in according to Google. Web site's article has survived a long time without being noticed. howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 17:35, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

ATTENTION! If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a majority vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus among Wikipedia editors on whether a page is suitable for this encyclopedia. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes. Nonetheless, you are welcome to participate and express your opinions. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments by suspected single-purpose accounts can be tagged using {{subst:spa|username}}

• Delete per nom. Stifle 00:54, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I am NOT connected to the Praeon Network in any way, shape, or form...but I was made aware of this only a bit ago... very simply put... any deletion of anything from a site like this, is flat out simple censorship!

Also, to whomever started this bit of censorship, you are a tool, what business is it of yours to attack a simple community site with your unjustified opinions? I'm going to guess & say that your probally all for the complete shutdown of the internet's freedom of speech.

Anyway, I highly suggest you Don't delete anything, it will only begin a downspiral of things that i'm sure are beyond the scope of things that this site would want to deal with...

-Jack R. Stewart (comment moved to proper location for timeline)

• Excuse me, but I Strongly disagree.. Before Praeon Network, Uplink 2k Network was a STRONG Influence for a lot of people. Praeon Network is not a Gaming Web Site, it's a free community hosting site that has brought a lot of people hope in reaching out to the internet. One site in particular, is darkguilds. That community reaches out to those in struggling need for someone to talk to. If Praeon Network's and Allandor RP is deleted, you are refusing to accept entries of history. You DON'T want to do that. As for Google and Alexa Rank.. since when has this been a popularity score? You are no better off than "The Register" if you delete these listings. Praedon 04:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• What needs to be done TO The article, to make it "Acceptable" with Wikipedia? Praedon 04:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• What exactly is it's violation. It doesn't seem to be point of view intensive, and while I can almost see it as a violation under vanity pages, it does seem to earnestly attempt to be an actual catalogue of a project. 218.101.50.66 04:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep Unless you can show me each and every line of violation that these sites have done on Wikipedia and they fit these violations to a t. Praedon 04:46, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep I see no argument for the deletion of Praeon.net from the Wikipedia site. It is a piece of internet history. More than that it is a violation of cival liberties and free speech to delete said site. It also shows quite a bit of flagrant favoritism in business practices. Praeon Network hosts Allandor.Com, which I freely admit is a gaming site, however Yahoo hosts thousands of gaming sites on it's name servers. Praeon does not claim to control the content of the sites it hosts, it simply claims to host with much better services. Allandor Rpg was hosted through Yahoo in it's conception it grew, and joined Praeon Network and since has had much better support, and much better service. The point is this. How can a site host a page on a business that hosts Thousands of gaming sites, and gaming comunities Which can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo%21 and delete Praeon network on the basis it has one, gaming site hosted on it's Name servers?-Christion from Allandor Rp

• Also if you Type Allandor RP into the Google search bar it returns 721 links.-Christion From Allandor Rp

• Furthermore. As Mr.Praedon mentioned earlier praeon network hosts quite a different bit of sites. Several I can name, Redmages.Praeon.net is an internet graphic art site. Darkguild.Org which is also hosted via Praeon Network's nameservers is an online support group for victims of horrible tragedies in their lives. The Suggestion for deletion of this entry, obviously comes from someone who has not done their homework on the entry they wish to have deleted. If this stands, I will advise the owner of Praeon Network to seek legal advise for a law suit dealing with the violation of free speech and cival liberties.-Storm From Darkguild.org

• I'd like to see specified Praeon.net's exact violation of Wikipedia policy. Thank you.

• Keep I see no reason to delete this article

• Keep I also see no reason to delete this article. Praeon has done nothing to warrent such a childish attack on it. Praeon is anything but a Gaming Site. Someone really should have done their research before trying to have such a wonderful site deleted for no reason.

[edit] Response to anonymous voters

I realize you are upset about having your article removed, but please consider that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which documents things that have been deemed noteworthy by the world at large. Here are the reasons why the article is being nominated for deletion. Please read the content at the links I've provided carefully and if you can prove that the site meets the criteria for inclusion, then by all means I will be happy to withdraw my deletion nomination.

• Article does not cite its sources and is therefore not verifiable (this is Wikipedia policy). In other words, there is no evidence that Praeon has had any influence on the world at large or even within the gaming community.
• www.praeon.net does not meet the guidelines set in WP:WEB.
  1. It has an Alexa rank of > 400,000.
  2. There are no links to the site according to Google.
  3. There are only 13 members registered with the site when I checked (00:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)), not even close to the minimum 5,000 that we ask for.
• There are only 30 unique Google hits for the site, excluding the praeon.net domain and the word "gambling" (apparently, praeon.com used to be a gambling site), which indicates a lack of web presence.
• WP:ISNOT a propaganda machine, nor is it an indiscriminate collection of information.
• "Allandor RP" gets a total of 705 Google hits, however if you page through the results, you'll see that there are only 38 relevant results.

As for the discussion of free speech and whatnot, first all, making legal threats gets you nowhere. Secondly, the First Amendment applies only to the government and not private entities such as the Wikimedia Foundation (otherwise, the Boy Scouts of America wouldn't have been able to ban gays), so that point is entirely moot.

To claim that I have not done my homework before nominating the articles for deletion shows that you have little or no knowledge of Wikipedia policies. I suggest you become familiar with the requirements for inclusion before making any further such statements.

Additionally, please note that votes by meatpuppets are almost always discounted, despite your best intentions.

I would certainly like to wish Praeon Networks the best of luck so that in time the site becomes worthy enough for an article. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 00:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep How can a site host a page on a business that hosts Thousands of gaming sites, and gaming comunities Which can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo%21 and delete Praeon network on the basis it has one, gaming site hosted on it's Name servers? Blantant discrimination. Storm Redhawk
  • There's a huge difference. Yahoo is one of the oldest web companies and the largest, as well as one of the most popular destinations on the web. In 100 years, when people discuss the history of the Internet, Yahoo will certainly be a big part of that discussion. It's possible that Praeon may become that, but it's not now. When and if it ever does get to the point where it occupies a similar position, or at least gets some news coverage to make it reputable, then it gets the article. howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 07:39, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Additionally, yes it is discrimination. Because WP:ISNOT an indiscriminate collection of information, by definition we must discriminate. This is in the sense of "discriminating tastes," not "racial discrimination." howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 19:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. — FREAK OF NUR_xTURE (TALK) 07:41, Dec. 14, 2005

• Im tired of fighting for something that isn't worth it anymore. If you want to delete it, fine... But do so by wiping ALL Evidence of Praeon Network from Wikipedia, instead of saying that it once did exist, but was deleted because it wasn't famous enough.. do me that favor Administrators... Do me that favor.... Praedon 19:58, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• As far as Allandor Rp is concerned, Please remove any and all references to it, from Wikipedia as well. Since we are not worthy. Storm Redhawk

• I will post one more thing in my defense... How DARE you declare Praeon to be a gambling site... I previously owned praeon.com years ago when I had uplink 2k Network... Praeon.com got bought under me cause I was a few days late in renewing it... I regret it every day, but I have no control over praeon.com anymore, and it has stupid gambling links on it, which makes me upset to no end.. but do NOT Declare it a gambling site.. you guys LOVE making speculation without getting all the facts.. Just delete and remove everything relating to Praeon Network and Allandor. You have approximately 5 days to do so, cause I am revoking all rights Wikipedia has to post and have anything Praeon related. You have blasted the good name of Praeon to No end, and I will not tollerate it. Pull everything that has the word Praeon, and I will not flex my rights under the GFDL and GNU to have this site exposed for violation. Thank you. Once all sites have been removed, I will then ask that the Username Praedon, and Praeon be banned from being used as well for future reference of anything relating to Praeon Network, Praeon Technologies, and all other things related to Praeon Network and its communities, including Allandor. Praedon 21:43, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
  • I never said that Praeon Network is a gambling site. I said that praeon.com appears to be one. It's an easy inference to make. Here's the Google search I used when researching your site. Are you going to tell me that you wouldn't have thought that praeon.com was related to gambling? howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 23:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

• Ok first off, have you been to praeon.com? Typed it in just recently? It is FAR From a Gambling site.... In fact.. its a parked domain for someone right now.. It actually says it is expired, yet somehow someone picked it up again.. I am going to be investigating the possibility to acquire it, but in the mean time I want all of this wiped out from Wikipedia.. You have done a lot of damage to me, and I am tired of fighting back and forth... Wikipedia isn't worth my time anymore.. Why should I fight for an entry, when you could care less if it is here or not, but much rather see it gone, cause it what, takes up every bit of maybe 14kb of space with image and all? So save me the trouble and heart ache.. and delete all known reference of Praeon Network If you declare it in violation, and unpopular enough to be on a free site... So I can move on from this, and not be blasted by it anymore.... Praedon 00:16, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Yes, I did, and I saw that it was a parked domain. Let me quote what I wrote above: "apparently, praeon.com used to be a gambling site." There was no way for me to know that you were the previous owner of praeon.com, so when I saw all the references to gambling and the fact that it was a parked domain, it was the logical inference to make. Regardless, I'm sorry that you've taken this AfD nomination so personally. Please note that the deletion of the articles in no way belittles the quality of your site or the Allandor RPG, just that at this point in time, it's not encyclopedic. I wish you the best of luck on expanding and growing your site so that in the future you'll deserve to have an article written about you. howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 07:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Fair enough, when can I count this entire article, debate, and any reference to Praeon Network wiped from wikipedia? I REALLY don't need this kept around, and would love to see all of this wiped away for good... At least let me know by just wiping it all away, so when I view it next time, It will give me a 404 error, or tell me it doesn't exist. That will make me happy. Praedon 09:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.