Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Polfbroekstraat

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 15:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polfbroekstraat

This article is a disgrace to Wikipedia.

The truth is there is no such place. There is in fact one real Belgian google: [1]

Which by the way, also mentions the Polbroek, as the street is really called. The text gives a lot of "wegels" (paths, unaccessible to cars, and thus usually not mentioned on a road map) that connect the "Polfbroekstraat" to "Hoeksken". On the road map I use ("Stratenatlas van Vlaanderen - Guide des Rues de Flandre. Standaard Uitgeverij, ISBN 90-0-20614-3.") Hoeksken is a street parallel to Polbroek. For those who do not understand why Polfbroekstraat could be a misprint for "Polbroek": most streets in the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium end in "straat" so incorrectly adding "straat" to a street name which does not have one, sometimes happens. And again, Polbroek also appears in this one Belgian Google.

The reason why it is obvious that Polfbroekstraat is in fact "Polbroek"? Well, at the point where a street called Espenhoek, coming from the South and going to the centre of SLH, becomes the Polbroek, there is also a road on the right: the almost circular road called Cotthem. And yes, Cotthem is another one of these phantom towns created (as Kottem) by the same people who created Polfbroekstraat, Eiland, and others. Note that both Espenhoek and Cotthem are marked as hamlets of the former village of Oombergen, and that Sint-Lievens-Houtem has fewer than 10,000 inhabitants. How could a town like that harbour three or even four metropolises with more than 30,000 inhabitants EACH?

Comment The article does not claim these are 'Metropolises'. It is clearly stated the population is taken within a 7km radius, as we lack a better figure. The Raven 07:39, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

In the talk page on Polfbroekstraat I claimed that the Polbroek began at the most southerly arm of the Cotthem with the approach road to Sint-Lievens-Houtem. This was based on a road map in book form quoted above. According to www.mappy.be (online road map of Belgium), this is wrong: Polbroek starts at the most northerly intersection. This makes the Polbroek even shorter.

This map and this one indicate what I mean. You can go South from the first one, or North from the second one to see the other intersection. User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 21:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I can provide pictures of this road (as I happen to live in the neighbourhood - it is nice cycling there on a sunny day like we have now), but somehow I think that even a letter by the mayor of Sint-Lievens-Houtem is not going to convince those people (are there really four of them?) who seem prepared to create a parallel universe.

Comment Yes, there are 4 of us. syphonbyte 23:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

What I write here also holds for Eiland and Kottem (actually Cotthem, as I explained), of course: only relatively unimportant streets in Sint-Lievens-Houtem! User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy pgp 20:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

• Keep If Polfbroekstraat is not a town, it was my mistake since that is what all the sources I could find indicated (Google Maps, Google Earth, etc.). If you could provide photographic evidence, that would be undisputable proof of it not being a town in my eyes. Until then, of course It should stay. --The Raven 22:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment Of course I cannot prove that something does not exist - how could I have photographic evidence of that? Since there is no such thing as Polfbroekstraat and the "place" in the area is a street called Polbroek (the only Belgian google is, I repeat, a misprint), it is going to be very difficult to prove that Polfbroekstraat is not a town. Except by default of course: how is it that such a big town as Polfbroekstraat is so strangely absent from all lists of Belgian towns, villages and hamlets? There are lists of postal codes, where everything that was once a village on its own is listed (they are on the internet) and Polfbroekstraat (or Polbroek) is again strangely absent. Talking about postal codes, where did you get the postal code mentioned in the article? The problem is, you see, that all postal codes in Belgium consist of 4 digits. Not five - like in France or Germany. I have just looked up 41063, of course. Nothing in Germany, some hamlet of Moenchen-Gladbach. But the French one is interesting: Couffy (renamed from Couffi in 1979). Seems like someone has been looking up the postal code of Cotthem in the wrong country. "Not stupid Frenchie, stupid Belgian" Hercule Poirot would have said after finding that one out. Stop inventing your own parallel universe and start writing real articles, I would say. User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy

Comment I don't know why you keep referring to searches on Belgian Google, but on regular Google I get many results referring to the town/hamlet/city/cobblestone of Polfbroekstraat. syphonbyte 03:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You know what I mean. Only one text made in Belgium. All the rest is either based on Wikipedia or on fallingrain. Just check "Polbroek" and note the difference.User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 03:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

There are a lot of results that are maps showing Polfbroekstraat. I have no doubts that there is a Polbroek, however I do doubt that it's the same thing as Polfbroekstraat.

Comment I'm only trying to represent a town/village/hamlet/populated area that I believe exists (and is supported by some sources). I have no clue who changed the postal code, I originally had posted a 4 digit postal code but was changed by 70.152.52.77. I will attempt to find the old postal code and replace it. Please do not make wanton accusations, we are trying to accurately represent a real place (to our knowledge). If you feel something is inaccurate, I want it changed as much as you.--The Raven 03:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment I see the postal code is back to 3150 now. Funny, as that is a postal code from the province of Flemish Brabant. All East Flemish postal codes start with the digit 9. It was the postal code you first put there, and which is really the postal code of Haacht (famous for its beer, like the two pubs in the Cotthem). According to the history of the page, 70.152.52.77 first changed your postal code to 3840, which as we all know by now is a postal code in Limburg, and the postal code (surprise, surprise) of Borgloon (where this hamlet Gotem is situated, for which all this fuss was started in the first place). 3 minutes later the same guy goes for the French postal code of Cotthem but takes Couffy. Three minutes is not much to start looking up postal codes all over Europe, so he must have been in a hurry. Four minutes later the same guy turns Polfbroekstraat into a part of the municipality of Sint-Lievens-Houtem - the first time anything serious and more or less connected to the real world happened on this page. And after needing only 4 minutes for this horrendous step forward, he chose to go away and not to look up the Sint-Lievens-Houtem postal code, since he KNEW that he had put the postal code for Cotthem, and not the one for Polfbroekstraat? Sorry, this behaviour seems rather strange to me. User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 21:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment Concerning the pictures, its very easy to prove Polfbroekstraat doesnt exist. A simple trip to the coordinates specified by fallingrain and some pictures would prove it beyond a doubt. Otherwise, I agree fallingrain is inaccurate, but I doubt that they would be wrong about a 'population center'. Also I admit I have no idea as to the postal code, but the longtitude/lattitude coordinates are most certainly correct. The Raven 01:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• STRONG DELETE. No article (as opposed to maps) about Polfbroekstraat has been given yet. Not one source to state its importance (fallingrain is, as we know by now, not trustworthy at all). This is because it does not exist. A city on Belgium with only one Google it from a Belgian website (a typo) is hysterical. It is up to the people that created the article or are trying to defend it to show its notability, its importance, or in this case, its existence. Until then (when hell freezes over), byebye Polfbroekstraat. By the way, as these are the same people that created Kottem and Eiland, I bring this Viamichelin map (click on the map to see it larger and to zoom in and out) as evidence that Polfbroekstraat should indeed be identified by Polbroek, as it lies between Kottem and Eiland on that map. Fram 05:12, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment There are many other sources which list the same information as falling rain. I have added some of them to the article for your viewing pleasure. Indeed, one can easily find many more that say the same thing by googling 'Polfbroekstraat'. Do you claim all of these sources are in error? I doubt this is the case. However, I would not rule out the fact that all these websites get their information from a single database. Indeed, it seems (from the link you provided) that there is a street called Polfbroek. This does not imply there is no town/cottage/hamlet/etc. called 'Polfbroekstraat', which exists as per the sources cited. The Raven 07:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

As you say, all these erroneous data seem to come from one database. Aren't you surprised that such a city cannot be found on any Belgian site, that no one can provide any info on it, etcetera? And don't ytou think that it is an incredible coincidence that Polbroek is located just next to Eiland and Kottem, two articles also made by you and your friends, and equally ridiculous? I still don't know why you or any of you have created and recreated articles about places you obviously know nothing about. It has been shown (e.g. with Gotem,which also started out as one of your silly articles) that the population numbers and so on given on fallingrain and all these other sources are completely unreliable Gotem dropped from 21000 on fallingrain to 282 in reality). Furthermore, the actual names of lpaces on these sites are equally unreliable, as you can often find many versions of the same name. Finally, it is up to you and the defenders of these articles to provide correct, reliable info. If you can't find a single Belgian site or article that gives us any info on Polfbroekstraat, if you can't show on ViaMichelin or another routeplanner where this city lies, then it is only worth deleting. if you want to try the effort you have done with Gotem to save it from deletion, namely start from scratch and turn it into a reliable, seriously sourced and informative article, be my guest. But you can't, as it is no city, village, or hamlet: it is the misspelled name of an unremarkable street. Fram 12:41, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. From this source: [2] I gather that Polfbroekstraat was one of several farms in Houtem (related to Sint-Lievens-Houtem?). One other farm is called Eyland. Two or three "neighbourhood roads" are listed between Polfbroekstraat and some other farm. Clearly there is some spot on the map corresponding to this, and somehow it entered some GIS database with the designation city, rather than the correct historic farm location. --15:53, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Comment Though I agree with what you seem to suggest, I must say you misinterpret the list, I am afraid. Anyone who understands Dutch sees this is a list of "buurtwegen" (vicinal roads) which in 1843 ran between several points, hamlets or streets in the neighbourhood of SLH. The vicinal roads were probably just dirt roads, and most of them do not appear on the map today.

As for what they connected: Hoeksken for instance, is also a street, although it probably originated as a point or place or a farm, since it is the diminutive of "Hoek", meaning corner. Hoeksken by the way is a road that runs parallel to Polbroek, which suggests that there may have been dirt roads between those two, made by farmers for instance.

Oombergen and Borsbeke, however, WERE villages. Crapenijke was a hamlet. "Eiland" perhaps was not a farm either. It may have referred to the Eilandmolen (from 1480), which still exists today (it can be seen on the Internet) or the field to the NE of it. So, yes, you are right there, somebody got farms, mills (Eiland), fields (Cotthem) and streets (Polbroek) confused with hamlets and villages but not all those "points" were farms User_talk:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 20:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

• Delete It's a street, absolutely not a town. If you think is it, please provide a link to the PDF from the Belgian Institute for statictics, like is done on Gotem. You won't be able to do that. --Tuvic 16:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Tuvic; no Statbel or other fgov.be links == hoax. Angus McLellan (Talk) 19:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I've seen enough, there's no evidence other than FallingRain mirrors for Polfbroekstraat. I don't know if the Polbroek has anything to do with this, but this place obviously doesn't exist. I'll probably mirror it on my user page, but that's the extent that this should exist I think. syphonbyte 00:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Not verifiable. ScottW 02:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete unless verified by a reliable source. Deli nk 20:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete As far as I can tell there is no such place. Just zis Guy you know? 21:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as a probable hoax. --Eivind^t@c 09:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. And block the guys who started it. Ellywa 07:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
• Delete with greetings from Belgium. And block the toilet ducks User:The Raven, User:Syphonbyte and User:Polfbroekstraat after a checkuser is done to see of the have not other accounts. --Walter 08:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.