Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pokémon-X

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Johnleemk | Talk 15:08, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

This comic shouldn't have been deleted, according to guidelines for webcomics It meets the #1 requirement for being at least in the top 30, on Top Web Comics every month, and #6 for being the first actual pokémon webcomic.--70.185.237.167 13:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pokémon-X

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Pokemon fan fiction webcomic, found here. It's hosted on Comic Genesis, which if you don't know is like the Geocities of the webcomic world. Although the main author of the article keeps on insisting that the webcomic is popular in the article, I see no evidence of this. The alexa report for Comic Genesis do not even mention this comic, as seen here. How is this random website notable? How is it more notable than a typical blog, geocities personal or random fan fiction? I don't think it is. - Hahnchen 17:21, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

• • Answer: "It's hosted on Comic Genesis, which if you don't know is like the Geocities of the webcomic world." - Keenspace or as it's called now Comic Genesis, is a well established and respectable webcomic hosting service and is nothing comparable to geocities. "How is this random website notable? How is it more notable than a typical blog, geocities personal or random fan fiction?" - Random website? Wow, really reaching there, aren't you? First off this isn't anything like a blog, it's an established webcomic that's been around a pretty good amount of time. Geocities personal? You of all people should know the difference between a geocities personal (You've posted enough) and a webcomic. Random fan fiction? Well let's see here, first off.. it's not a fan fic, it's an adaptation, definitly not a fan fic, so if these are the reasons that notorious webcomic basher Hahnchen, has to delete this article, and these are the reasons behind this whole AFD, doesn't it seem a bit pointless, I really don't think Hahnchen has even checked out this website to verify anything.--70.185.237.167 03:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• No Vote/Comment — Comics are similar to copy & paste material, and content of latest comic is rather crude and immature. Inclined to vote delete due to non-existing alexa ranking, but will hold off until other editors drop by. Kareeser|^Talk! 20:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Question: - How is this comic similar to copy and paste material, I don't see any evidence of that at all. Unless you're refering to how the frames of the comics are the same everyday so he must be cutting the images from his own source and pasting them into a template or something with each page. And what exactly did you think was crude, was it when Brendan said "I'm going to go on deck and play with my rod?" Yes, Brendan is a bit crude, that's how he is as a character. --70.185.237.167 03:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, comicruft. Royboycrashfan 20:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as promo. Daniel Case 20:41, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
• Don't delete Alexa doesn't list individual comics from comic genesis or keenspace, only keenspace or comic genesis in general, I've worked hard on this entry at the request of several members of this comics fan base.--CrazyWaffle 21:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - Alexa gives a break down of where the incoming users visit on Comic Genesis, and it's just that Pokemon X wasn't there which was why I mentioned it. I know that you've worked on this entry, and I'm sure that the comic has it's own fan base, but so does every comic out there and I didn't see anything here which made it stand out from the masses. May I direct you towards Comixpedia, the webcomic encyclopedia? They'll gladly take your contributions, even if it gets deleted from Wikipedia. - Hahnchen 21:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete fanfic.--Isotope23 21:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
• Don't delete This comic contrary to what you may think is quite popular, all of it's fans are very loyal to the comic and the comic is very funny!-Rick_Xeros

• Comment — Please note that Rick_Xeros is a newly created account editing only this discussion. Treat as a sockpuppet. Kareeser|^Talk! 00:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Whether the comic is funny or the fans are loyal is immaterial. This comic is neither popular nor widely discussed, and as such is not noteworthy or encyclopedic. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Hanchen, you have been told repeatedly in the past that alexa is a poor indicator of popularity. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:57, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - I know how Alexa works, and am reminded of it with constant patronisation. I have also mentioned to everyone who mentions it that Alexa ranking is a circumstantial thing. I provide a link for people who are interested, other website nominations normally do so, why should webcomics be treated differently? - Hahnchen 06:51, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Question: - Why do you hate webcomics so much? --70.185.237.167 01:18, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Why do you guys want this deleted so badly? What do you have against this comic? --CrazyWaffle 01:54, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable. I'm enjoying watching all the Don't Deletes pile on, though; it makes it easy to see which people have never even heard of an AfD before. Ikkyu2 02:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Do Delete. Does not meet WP:WEB guidelines. -- Dragonfiend 02:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Instead of being negative and biased, why don't you people suggest ways to make the article more suitable to what you want?
  • Same reason you don't sign your comments: we don't know how. Ikkyu2 03:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Actually "he of little maturity" I know how to add sigs, I guess it just slipped my mind to hit the sig button at the end, too bad they don't make a button that would fix your problem.--CrazyWaffle 03:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete fanfic, doesn't meet WP:WEB.--み使い Mitsukai 06:33, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Do not delete I went to go read this comic after seeing this dispute, it doesn't really qualify as "fan fiction" as for popularity, since everyone knows Alexa doesn't list individual comics hosted by keenspace or comic genesis, you can't really check through them, this comic has been around a long time, updates frequently and has a pretty big fan base according to the amount of people registered at its forums, I think before you condem this article, you should work on better ways to prove it's not notable, rather than Hahnchen going off his hatred for all webcomics.--70.185.237.167 07:58, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Absolute Delete. Pretty much your standard Internet fad AfD, complete with the nerfherders suddenly appearing in its defense, no doubt alerted by whatever party put the article up in the first place. For the record, once an article is on AfD, the burden of proof is on the "Keep" side. Articles are Delete-worthy until proven otherwise. --Agamemnon2 08:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Don't delete: I see no evidence supporting that this ISN'T popular. All I see in support for deleting this page due to it's so called lack of popularity is this Alexa rankings page, which has been said by multiple commentors to not be an accurate ranking of a comic's popularity. I also see one commentor saying that Hahnchen, who appears to be the creator of this delete motion, has a hatred for all webcomics. Isn't this a bit biased? I believe one should have to provide more proof than an inaccurate rankings page and his/her hatred of webcomics. And just because YOU haven't heard of Pokémon X before doesn't mean the comic isn't popular. I feel more proof should be provided as to the status of popularity (and on that note, popular to who? The entire population of the earth? Wikipedia users? Web comic readers? Please clarify this.) before a deletion occurs. Mjc0961 13:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Weak delete. I'm a fan of these comics. This comic is running for two years and a half now, and even has its own small cult following it around. Nevertheless, I don't see many claims of notability provided on the world wide web...I actually don't see any at all, apart from some minor webcomic-lists, such as Top Web Comics. It received 67 votes last week..that's not enough to justify a keep in my opinion. Therefore, delete.SoothingR 13:47, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Question: - How many votes did Megatokyo recieve last week?--70.185.237.167 01:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Answer: Considering that Pokémon X is rated 36 and Megatokyo is rated 43, I'd have to say less votes. I can't actually find where SoothingR got the number of 67 votes for the week, but if Megatokyo is lower, Megatokyo got less votes. Mjc0961 12:52, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment. Take in mind that the Megatokyo comics actually went on print, and Pokémon-X is most probably never going to be printed.SoothingR 18:22, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment - That's not because of popularity though, Pokémon-X probably can't go into print because pokémon holds the copyright, and also because it's a sprite comic, I don't recall a sprite comic ever going print, even if it has original sprites like A Modest Destiny.--70.185.237.167 19:31, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn. Elfguy 13:56, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 00:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Point: - I don't think it really matters how popular this webcomic is, the point is this, it's an established comic, that much is obvious, it's been around almost 3 years. It has over 400 pages, and it has a lot of history behind it. It may not be mentioned all over the web like some webcomics, but it does have a rather large following. And if some of you would take time to read it, it's actually a quite inventive adapataion of the games.--70.185.237.167 01:25, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
• Do not delete - Alexa seems to be a very unreliable source to base this judgement on. bigbboy1234 22:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

DO NOT dELEtE!!!œ

• Delete nn webcomic; it always makes me smile to see "do not delete" from the astroturfers Ruby 04:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
• Comment — Seems to me there's just a lot of arguing going on both ways without anyone giving any actual proof of anything. Alexa's rank means little, as Comic Genesis hosts many extremely popular comics, meaning a comic could actually become quite popular without getting a mention on Alexa. What this page actually needs is some reference to notability, and possibly a report of how many members reside in their forums. The only things I've gathered from this discussion are that it's not mentioned on Alexa, and it's been around for 3 years with a large archive. I took a look at it myself and while I'm not a fan of sprite comics it's certainly on the higher end of the quality spectrum. I will vote upon further proof of notability but for now I'd lean toward keep. Zaron 18:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Answer In my experience only about 1/3rd or less of the people who become fans of a comic actually join the forum, but I went to check for you, Currently the Pokémon-X forums at Proboards has 807 members. --70.185.237.167 01:04, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep - Based on the above information I see much more reason to keep the article than to delete it, even despite the ballot stuffing. -- Zaron 03:55, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Aggrement - I agree with Zaron, all of Hahnchen's sockpuppet/friends who keep voting for deletion without reviewing the facts or even looking at the comic.--CrazyWaffle 08:10, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
• Weak Keep. I've vaguely heard of it, somewhat well known, at least, within the pokemon sprite comic community. But dear god, please get rid of the midi on the site! Having a midi automatically play on your site is something of an automatic decrease to your notability, I'm afraid. -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 09:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. This webcomic is of great quality, has a consistent plot, and owns a reasonable fanbase who cares about the comic and its author. I began reading it four days ago under suggestion from a friend, and I was surprised to look it up here and see that it is in danger of deletion. This comic has been in the works since 2003, and although I know there are people like myself who are willing to read though the whole archive, a Wikipedia aticle will benefit those who want to just start at the current page, by providing the in-depth information on the characters and plot the site itself cannot produce. For those who have been reading it for a long time (and from I have seen, there are quite a few), an article can also provide any information they might have forgotten. I find it ironic that for a comic that is "unpopular," its article is quite a bit longer than say... Inverloch, which nobody dares to challenge. I am aware that there are WikiCities or the like specifically tailored for webcomics, but in my opinion those are more aimed towards those who read a large number of comics and/or have the patience to even find those sources. Finding the article on the main Wikipedia site is quick and easy. -Sarranduin 23:52, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The quality or consistency of the comic is absolutely irrelevant, and I see no evidence that the fanbase is significant. If the author wants a description of the plot or characters to bring readers up to speed, the author can do so on his or her own site; being Cliff Notes for webcomics is beyond WP's scope. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 07:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Then how is this different from what the other webcomics that aren't be questioned doing?--70.185.237.167 09:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable. HotWings 01:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete does not meet webcomic notability standards. Savidan 05:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Annoyance - We've already gone over the notability issue.--70.185.237.167 09:12, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.