Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pirate rock

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. W.marsh 01:28, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pirate rock

No sources have been produced to indicate that this is a recognized genre. So far the article just seems to be based on the fact that some bands have dressed pirate-style at times, or otherwise used pirate themes. See talk page discussion, we have established no way of knowing who is or isn't in this "genre". Adam and the Ants are included since they dressed as pirates during one period, but the sources I've found describe them as "new wave" or "post punk", nothing says "pirate rock" or (worse yet) "piratecore". This may be an attempt to define a new genre rather than document a recognized one. Ned Wilbury 15:20, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete unless verified and shown notable. -- Krash (Talk) 15:23, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. I thought about nominating it myself.--Esprit15d 16:09, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. Article reads like a hoax MLA 16:13, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Just because it sounds so silly that it shouldn't exist, doesn't mean it doesn't. A look at some of the bands listed shows that there is such a thing. (take a look here) — TheKMantalk 16:32, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • That looks like a blog by a guy involved in some of the bands. I guess the question isn't whether some bands have called themselves "pirate rock" or a similiar name, but whether this is a genre recognized by independant sources. Bands may call themselves many things, but that doesn't make a genre, neccessarily. See Stout Irish Rock. Ned Wilbury 16:37, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Hey, it's a self recognized genre that a number of notable bands consider themselves to be a part of (e.g., this isn't the 1-band genre that "Stout Irish Rock" is). If notable bands call themselves "pirate-rock", but no one you would consider an "independent source" does, it doesn't mean that the genre doesn't exist or lacks notability. — TheKMantalk 16:52, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete neologism for a non-existent sub-genre. If no "independent source" has labeled these bands as Pirate Rock then what they choose to consider and call themselves is irrelevant. If my band and 5 other bands decide to call our version of Zappa-inspired experimental/noise rock "Christian Inspirational Mood Music", that doesn't create a genre of that name referring to our style of music. When the music press picks up on it and starts classifying bands of a certain style with a certain name, that is when it becomes a genre. The bands exist, but the genre does not.--Isotope23 17:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • But now wait a second. This isn't about random bands giving themselves a random name for whatever random type of music they are playing. These are notable bands, with members dressed as pirates, singing about pirates. If you're saying that this doesn't happen, or doesn't exist, well...try looking! — TheKMantalk 18:24, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • With all respect, WP:RS. -- Krash (Talk) 18:47, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I never said there were not band dressing as pirates, singing about pirating. It doesn't matter how notable they are... The issue here is that there is no evidence that the term "Pirate rock" has any general usage in relationship to a genre of music. I found a handful of uses of this term in relation to this style of music & many uses was self-referential. Most were printed in local college or entertainment newspapers. There is just no evidence provided at this time that this term has any general usage as a genre. Don't get me wrong... the world needs more pirates to stop global warming, I'm just not convinced of this genre. Provide sources from a major music media source that this term is used in relation to certain bands and I'll change my vote.--Isotope23 17:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. Sounds made up, and even if it's real, it's non-notable. JIP | Talk 21:03, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • It isn't made up. With all respect, have you read the above discussion? — TheKMantalk 21:05, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I have to admit, not all of it. I made my vote based on the article's contents. JIP | Talk 21:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Fair enough :-) — TheKMantalk 21:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete as nn unless some reliable sources are cited. dbtfztalk 21:53, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep, I dug around a bit and found a few mentions in college newspapers and subculture magazines: [1], [2], [3], [4], and Rolling Stone refers to an Aerosmith album in one line as being different from their usual pirate rock mettle: [5]. It's a stretch, but I think it makes it -- Samir ∙ T C 22:28, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Too many bands claim to be performing pirate rock for us to ignore the phenomenon. -- JJay 23:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • The bands listed don't all claim to play "pirate rock". Some of them don't even use the word "pirate" in describing themselves, from what I can see. Also, I don't see that they have anything in common musically, so I don't see it as a genre. I don't think we can turn a few references to pirates or "pirate rock" into a genre called "pirate rock" unless we can find references to it as a genre in reputable music press. I've looked at the sources provided and I still don't see that this is an identifiable genre. Ned Wilbury 23:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
  • What does this mean then?: Portland's leading pirate rockers come clean.[6] Or why am I seeing articles with lists of pirate rock bands? [7]. Why did the Portland Tribune write a line like: "The finest all-ages pirate rock band anywhere" [8]. Based on the amount of hits, it is hard to deny that there is a groundswell of these pirate bands. Regarding the music, it seems based on the evidence that the genre is musically diverse, and relates more to costumes, songs and the pirate lifestyle. -- JJay 00:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Alright, from the sources provided, I'm willing to believe that the bands Pirate Jenny and Captain Bogg and Salty have been described as "pirate rock". Neither one of them have AMG bios, so they don't appear to be major bands. Again, I still don't think we have enough to go on to assume this is a genre. We can't just say "Look, we've found a few bands with a common characteristic, therefore it's a genre." Ned Wilbury 14:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep It doesn't matter what the bands call themselves, the fact is there are many bands dressing as pirates and playing pirate themed rock/punk music. Hence there is a new subgenre, best described as pirate rock. If deleted, this article will just need to be remade in a few months when the mainstream media starts taking an interest. Buttle 01:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
New subgenre?? Have you seen Johnny Kidd and the Pirates? Those guys date back to the 50's, according to their article. 50 years later, pirate rock still doesn't look like it's a recognized genre. We're not supposed to come up with new ideas, we only report on what our sources have already said. Ned Wilbury 15:27, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. WarpstarRider 01:09, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This is unacceptable. I'm in a Pirate-Core band, and a pretty darn fine one, too. I know this makes me EXTREMELY unbiased about this, But we've been written up in Metal Rules magazing and CMJ, both articles citing we play Pirate-Core. I'll scan the articles and post them for verification.

I've been keeping tracks on the genre since all other bands in it are my peers. As long as there has been punk bands there have been punk bands dressing up as Pirates. The Hard-Core scene is literally littered with Pirate Acts. Then there are pub-rock pirate bands and more kid friendly/Ren Faire pirate acts. There are scenes going on In Washington, Baltimore, Alabama, New York and Texas. You cannot delete this entry. As someone else stated, it will just need to be put back up once one of these bands breaks big.I understand Isotope23's statement that a self given genre lable lacks the legitimacy of the title being bestowed by the press, however if this is such a problem then the article simply needs to be re-named, not deleted.Unkiedev 7:39 EST March 11, 2006

  • Delete unless reliable sources cited. Stifle 01:44, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep This is a real genre, as has been referenced above, even if it does not have many mainstream media refereces. Many bands such as RU-36 consider themselves "pirate core" or pirate rock.Weezle 08:31, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
  • It doesn't matter how "real" something is, if it's unverifiable. Unverified content can be removed by any editor who objects to it at any time. It's not clear to me whether "pirate rock" and "piratecore" are even meant to be the same thing. Ned Wilbury 15:21, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.