Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pia Haraldsen (2nd Nomination)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. John254 01:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Pia Haraldsen
I would like to nominate the Pia Haraldsen article for deletion for the second time due to concerns about notability. This person, who is a Borat-style Norwegian television host, is virtually unknown in the English speaking world. She recently had her "15 minutes of fame" in the United States due to her recent "mock" interview of NYC Councilmember James Oddo, but in my opinion, this does not satisfy the notability requirements of Wikipedia (at least on the English language site), as she is only known for this one incident. She currently has entries on both Wikipedia Norwegian language sites, and I feel that is enough as her notoriety does not extend beyond the borders of Norway. -- UPGRAYEDDD 09:14, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. This is notability beyond the 15 minutes of fame. Haraldsen is not just some person who happened to post a funny video on Youtube which gained a short burst of attention. Haraldsen is a professional comedian who is seen on the popular Norwegian comedy show Rikets Røst. The Oddo incident is what made her famous in the United States, but she has gained notability through her TV performance well before that. Also, that this is the English Wikipedia does not mean that we should focus on topics in English speaking countries, in fact that is a horrible systematic bias. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- I think I should add that I feel sorry for Oddo. This man set aside time in a busy schedule in order to help out what he thought was a serious journalist and is then met with a nonsense reporter trying to make a fool of him. He then winds up paraded as a maniac on Youtube, which is a deeply unfair characterization. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. This is the English language wikipedia, not the encyclopedia for people famous in the USA. The nominator's rationale fundamentally misunderstands the point. To then denigrate this person's standing because she's from a 'sparsely populated Scandinavian country' is pushing things into the realm of self parody. Nick mallory 10:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- I was not trying to "denigrate Ms. Haraldsen's standing", Nick mallory. I am simply defending my point that she is a non-notable person under Wikipedia standards. This has nothing to do with the United States. She is a non-notable person in the United Kingdom, Australia, and every other English speaking country in the world. The only place in the world where she is actually notable is Norway, and there are articles for her on both Norwegian language versions of Wikipedia. -- UPGRAYEDDD 11:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- You're completely missing the point. She's either notable or not, it's irrelevant which country she's from. This is an English language wiki, it's got nothing to do with whether someone is famous in English speaking countries or not. She's been the subject of stories in the Washington Post [1] and New York Daily News [2] and is a prominent comedian on TV in Norway. 124.183.76.5 14:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- I was not trying to "denigrate Ms. Haraldsen's standing", Nick mallory. I am simply defending my point that she is a non-notable person under Wikipedia standards. This has nothing to do with the United States. She is a non-notable person in the United Kingdom, Australia, and every other English speaking country in the world. The only place in the world where she is actually notable is Norway, and there are articles for her on both Norwegian language versions of Wikipedia. -- UPGRAYEDDD 11:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. per Sjakkalle --- Elmao 11:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Delete. I don't see why deleting articles from the English language Wikipedia when the subject fails notability criteria is "systematic bias". Haraldsen is simply not notable by Wikipedia standards because other than one minor incident (the aforementioned "James Oddo interview"), she is known only as a minor celebrity in a sparsely populated Scandinavian country. As I stated before, her article deserves a place on the two Norwegian language Wikipedia sites, but she is really not notable enough to warrant an article on any other Wikipedia site. -- UPGRAYEDDD 10:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Notability is presumed if there are multiple independent and non-trivial sources. And there is plenty. [3] [4] [5] [6]. Under what policy or guideline does a person's nationality or language influence the notability? Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Just because YOU feel that Haraldsen is notable, that doesn't mean that she is notable as per Wikipedia standards, Sjakkalle! All of the citations that you provided are in Norwegian, not English! This only goes to prove my point that Haraldsen is notable under the Norwegian language Wikipedia standards, but certainly not under the English language Wikipedia standards! Tell me... what has really changed since this article's last AfD review? I believe that nothing has changed and Haraldsen is still non-notable! The decision will be made whether or not to remove this article by a CONSENSUS of Wikipedia editors, not just you or I, so there is no need for you to continue to re-hash your reasons for keeping the article! -- UPGRAYEDDD 11:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Two things have changed. The obvious one is that the Oddo incident seriously boosted her recognition both inside and outside of Norway. Second, on the first AFD she had not yet performed or shown any of her interview stunts on Rikets Røst, it is her performance there is what gives notability, notability she did not have back in February. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Your arguments for keeping the article are weak. Just because Haraldsen has performed "interview stunts" since her Wikipedia article was deleted back in February, that doesn't mean that she is now notable. The Oddo incident was inconsequential. Sorry, but she's still a non-notable person. -- UPGRAYEDDD 11:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- And as you said, that will be decided by userS, not by an user; and I feel he has the right to comment on opinions; in fact that's the reason why we are here .. You don't have to accuse him, that he is insistent. {LifeGoesOn} :) Elmao 14:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Your arguments for keeping the article are weak. Just because Haraldsen has performed "interview stunts" since her Wikipedia article was deleted back in February, that doesn't mean that she is now notable. The Oddo incident was inconsequential. Sorry, but she's still a non-notable person. -- UPGRAYEDDD 11:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Two things have changed. The obvious one is that the Oddo incident seriously boosted her recognition both inside and outside of Norway. Second, on the first AFD she had not yet performed or shown any of her interview stunts on Rikets Røst, it is her performance there is what gives notability, notability she did not have back in February. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Just because YOU feel that Haraldsen is notable, that doesn't mean that she is notable as per Wikipedia standards, Sjakkalle! All of the citations that you provided are in Norwegian, not English! This only goes to prove my point that Haraldsen is notable under the Norwegian language Wikipedia standards, but certainly not under the English language Wikipedia standards! Tell me... what has really changed since this article's last AfD review? I believe that nothing has changed and Haraldsen is still non-notable! The decision will be made whether or not to remove this article by a CONSENSUS of Wikipedia editors, not just you or I, so there is no need for you to continue to re-hash your reasons for keeping the article! -- UPGRAYEDDD 11:13, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Notability is presumed if there are multiple independent and non-trivial sources. And there is plenty. [3] [4] [5] [6]. Under what policy or guideline does a person's nationality or language influence the notability? Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral. Haraldsen failed AfD once, and I believe that, aside from the James Oddo incident, nothing of importance has happened since then to justify reversing the decision about her non notability. Citizen Dick 11:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. I am changing my vote from Delete to Neutral because an administrator is making a big deal over the fact that someone with the same IP address as me nominated the Pia Haraldsen article for deletion and I concurred. I hope that this action satisfies this administrator and gets him off of my back! Citizen Dick 16:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- She has gone from being a random celebrity to become one of Norway's best known comedians. 96T 17:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Comment. I am changing my vote from Delete to Neutral because an administrator is making a big deal over the fact that someone with the same IP address as me nominated the Pia Haraldsen article for deletion and I concurred. I hope that this action satisfies this administrator and gets him off of my back! Citizen Dick 16:30, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep per Sjakkalle. If her notability were limited solely to the Oddo interview, I'd say delete, but it isn't. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 12:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep I'm trusting the statements of others that she is famous in Norway. If that's the case, then there'll be third-party coverage of her in Norwegian media (and Sjakkalle has provided a bunch of links to that effect). Although English-language sources are preferred for purposes of WP:V, this is not a requirement if only non-English sources exist as per WP:RSUE. The argument that notability must be shown for "English speaking countries" has no basis in policy. Note that these countries make up only a quarter of the two billion people who speak English, so it's not a particularly useful criterion. Thomjakobsen 14:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Comment User:UPGRAYEDD has been blocked as a sockpuppet of User:Citizen Dick. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:20, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- thanx Elmao 15:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- oh? Punkmorten 17:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- thanx Elmao 15:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep it is extremely blinkered to believe that only things that are of interest to Anglo-Saxon English speakers is notable, the thing is the people who make the arguement "this is the English Wikipedia, an article from X country should be in X country's language" are already conceding that a topic is notable, if it is notable enough for another Wikipedia, it is notable enough for this one, otherwise each Wikipedia will be a shallow pond of local interest topics and not the all embracing encyclopedia that all the Wikipedias could be . This article satisfys notability and verifiability and should be kept. KTo288 15:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, I don't see why the multiple media sources don't suffice. Punkmorten 17:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep per multiple sources. She is very famous in Norway, and the English Wikipedia is supposed to be international. 96T 17:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, she does not need to be considered famous or notable in an English-speaking country to pass WP:N. --BelovedFreak 18:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, This is way more important than forexample this: Morten Hæstad. many people from many countries wants to know more about her after the Oddo episode. If she is good enough for FOX News and other big channels in US, she is good enough for Wikipedia.--193.217.2.65 18:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Neutral, being a TV personality on an asinine TV show here in Norway should not warrant inclusion, but the number of preceding articles for other individuals placed on weaker grounds makes it difficult for me to stay anything but neutral on this. Bosse Klykken 19:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- But one behind the bars :) Elmao 20:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep, Wikipedia has loads of pages on unnotable porn actresses, football players and other minor celebrities, of course there should be room for Norwegian comedians. This is not US Wikipedia, it's the english language Wikipedia. --Tannkremen 21:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. She have been host for 4 different tv-series in Norway --Ezzex 01:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - If someone is notable in a non-English speaking country, they're just as notable if they were in an English speaking one. --Oakshade 06:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep Notable enough, as established above. • Lawrence Cohen 06:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. Just because she is unknown to English-speakers doesn't mean she is not a notable personality. I can link you to hundreds of Wikipedia articles about TV-hosts, singers, actors, scientists, etc. from various countries who are not known to the vast majority of the English-speaking world, yet their notability isn't being questioned. Parishan 08:05, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. Appears to meet notability requirements. Anchoress 11:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - Why do people use Wikipedia? At least I know that I learn more about things I may not know about by browsing it, and using it as a portal of information. Because you don't want to know more about her or about this incident doesn't mean anyone else doesn't want to. In fact, the amount of people who have voiced their opinion in this AfD should and could speak for itself. Now, I'm Norwegian, and I knew of her from before the James Oddo incident, but came to Wikipedia to learn more about this as I hadn't heard of it before today. I'm not saying this incident alone justifies notability, but she is a new, but fast rising young comedian, not just some Borat clone, as it seems some people have labeled her. --Ifrit 19:14, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. I think I said this before. Last time I checked en.Wikipedia is for people who understand the English language and not only for people where the English language came from.--Lenticel (talk) 00:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- Keep. She's very important. —V. Z. Talk • Contributions • Edit counter 15:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
