Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philippe Servaty

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 02:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philippe Servaty

Philippe Servaty (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Contested db of scandal-bio; sources have been improved, but not enoughTikiwont 10:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Oppose A quick Google reveals the subject is notable enough, but I'd like to see some more English references. I don't think deletion is warranted so quickly in this case - give it time and see what happens. FYI, the "A8" deletion referenced on the talk page is, IIRC, speedy deletion for blatant copyright violation. -- Qarnos 10:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - I took this around over the weekend. I thinks the 'quick' clarification is necessary because of the subject and WP:BLP. I studied the sources and tried to search more myself. The main issue is the scarcity of reliable sources. Of the three in English (including the one on the talks pages), two are self-published and take the 'facts' as starting point. The third one (Le Soir) talks of Servaty only as suspect, as does the French one. Tikiwont 10:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Every sentence is sourced with multiple references. There are 22 citations for a three paragraph article. While I realize English refs are preferable on the English Wiki, WP:V states that foreign refs are acceptable. As to the issue of self-published refs, while WP:V states that blogs are not largely acceptable, it goes on to say that self-published work may be acceptable if the author is a professional in the field. This ref fulfills that criterion, as Paul Belien is also a journalist who has written for major newspapers such as The Wall Street Journal and The Independent. I doubt he would libel anyone, as he has his professional reputation as journalist to consider. By the way, of the five refs I currently have, this is the only one that I see as self-published. The others are a Moroccan magazine, a Belgian magazine, a Belgian Newspaper and an Arabic news site. Jeffpw 16:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Quarl (talk) 05:47, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep - Could use some cleanup per WP:BLP but is chock-full of non-English references establishing notability. —Dgiest c 07:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per above, and I am irritated this was relisted. It is obviously notable, and my personal feeling is that it was not nominated in good faith. It has 22 cites now, and had 22 cites when it was nominated. It's not my problem if the only language the nominator can comprehend is English. Jeffpw 08:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Well, I hope that you examined the sources more thoroughly than my userpage. While it only lists German and Itlian as Non-English languages, that allows me also to comprehend some Dutch and French respectively. As regards your feeeling of lack of good faith, I will merely take this as hint to try to make my montivation clearer, as I originally did in contact with the artcle's creator. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tikiwont (talk • contribs) 09:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC).
  • As, of course, you're the creator let me add that I had hoped to have clarified that while there are many citations, and it is clear that there was a scandal with Servaty as main suspect, not all sources actaully sustained that Servaty was identified as 'Belguel' or explained clear enough how or e.g. where and when the mentioned interview was published. Here my limited understanding of Dutch may indeed have played a role. So I felt it necessary to have this reviewed. However, I won't express an opinion in this relisting (which is completely legit since there originally was only one opinion but ours.) Tikiwont 09:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The TelQuel ref: the 11 Moroccan young women imprisoned following this business had designated the man who had photographed them in these defamatory positions as being "Philippe Sarfati, journalist with the Belgian daily newspaper Le Soir. The Brussels journal: Le Soir, however, forced Servaty to resign in early June when it became known that Servaty had added “anti-Islamic remarks” to some of the pictures. The ArabicNews.com (the weakest ref): Servaty would have deluded over 80 Moroccan women, in the Moroccan south-western city of Agadir, into taking pornographic photo-shots and scenes on promises that he would marry them and ensure their legal stay in his country. Knack magazine: Servaty photographed the women, saying it was for hi8s own use, and placed the explicit photos on the internet, with sexist and racist comments, on the now closed webiste marocsluts.tk...In an interview with RTBF he apologized and said that he is a sex addict. De Standaard newspaper: In Agadir thirtten women are jailed and dozens on the run after becoming the victims of Belgische journalist P.S. During his vacations in Morocco he seduced the women, made compromising photos, and set the photos on an [internet] sexsite. Every ref either states he is accused of this act, or states explicitly that he did it. One ref even contains the fact that he apologized for doing it. It's clear he did it, so I don't see how you can nominate this for deletion based on WP:BLP. it's not libel to state the facts of a case, if you have sources to back them up. The fact that the refs are not all in English does not make it fail WP:V, which explicitly allows non-English refs. I didn't think this was a good faith nomination the first time you placed it here, I think it even less this second time. As to your comment that you hope I read the references more clearly than your userpage, I didn't look at your userpage at all. I merely assumed you were having a comprehension problem, since you couldn't read what I have set before you now in black and white. Jeffpw 10:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • As probably is clear by now, I did not place the article a second time here. That was done by an administrator. I nominated the artcicle in the first place, because I had doubts about the sources of the sources and in particular about the interview in light of WP:BLP which I seem to have understood more narrow than other editors here and only reentered this second discussion because of the not-good-faith claim. Tikiwont 18:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. The sources are there, he's notable, it's verifiable, that's it. AFD is not for source review when you simply don't like the sources. If you had questions about the reliability of sources, you should have taken it to WP:RFC. This is an abuse of the deletion process. — coelacan talk — 10:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
    Hi guys, please calm down: AFD is exactly the right forum for this, not RFC (that is for behavioral disputes). —Quarl (talk) 2007-02-11 11:21Z
  • Comment - For what's it worth, after the article survives this AfD, it will be immune from being proded or speedied. However, I agree this should have been an immediate speedy keep. Addhoc 15:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I understand the frustration expressed above. Time wasted trying to save articles from improper deletion could be better spent. Press your "random article" age ten times and look at some of the stuff that is begging for deletion yet goes unnoticed. House of Scandal 11:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Find sources: Philippe+Servaty — news, books, scholar Addhoc 12:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep - sufficient news coverage per above. Addhoc 12:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Move to Philippe Servaty scandal The article as currently written has very little biographical information about Servaty himself, and is really just a summary of the scandal. So, really, it is the scandal which meets WP:N, not Philippe Servaty, and that should be the name of the article.--Aervanath 14:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • BLP I do not think that most of the article could stand up when examined in the light of BLP, unless one actually thought the sources here reliable by that criterion. As mentioned, this is especially true of the purported interviews. I do not see how one could justify some of the newspaper sources as sufficient for the purpose. But it is notable, though I would how much of it will survive. DGG 03:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Reply: DGG, would you please clarify your comment? My sources are A) A Belgian magazine; B) A Belgian newspaper; C) A Moroccan magazine; D)An Arabic news website; E) A blog from a noted Belgian journalist; and F) A Moroccan newspaper. Why would these not be considered reliable sources? Because only 2 are in English? Or do you have some other objection to them? Jeffpw 08:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.