Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philip Turnbull
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. John254 19:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Philip Turnbull
as per WP:N; players have never played in The Football League (professional level), this is the general concensus for articles of footballers notability. SalvoCalcio 20:12, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - Has played in the FL Trophy; clearly a professional competition, as its for professionals only. Mattythewhite 20:13, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- As sources show[1], he has never played a game for a professional club, he never made the cut in the first team and as thus has never played in The Football League. the club he is contracted to now is not full-professional, it is concensus that only Football League standard players have articles, which this guy doesn't match up to. same thing goes for Onome Sodje.--SalvoCalcio 20:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- He's played at a professional level. In the FL Trophy; may not be the FL itself, but it still inserts notability. Mattythewhite 20:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Sides from the Conference National (non professional) also take part in the Football League Trophy, which you're fully aware of. this does not mean we go against the concensus set down and create articles for non-professional players all of a sudden (which you're also fully aware of[2]). the facts speak for themselves[3], never played at pro-level, never played in the pro-leagues... fails WP:N.-SalvoCalcio 20:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- First of all, they've never even played for a team in the FL. IMO, just even being apart of a professional team is good enough. I know several other Wikipedians go by this, but it is just several peoples opinions. And still, surely FL Trophy asserts notability for sure.. but we'll wait and see what other people think. Mattythewhite 20:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- These two players have never played in the professional level football league, which is the standard for football players articles and is the exact reason you nominanted several other articles for deletion[4]. however, as you're a "fan" of the club these two play for, you're trying to invent far fetch exceptions which fall short of the policies set out for players. non-professional players, who have never played at professional level don't get articles.. you're well aware of this.-- SalvoCalcio 20:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Can you actually verify that? About me coming up with far-fetched explanations? Don't falsley accuse me of things. Dude, you seriously need to changed your attitude on Wikipedia. You've offended me on here already, and you've certainly annoyed others. Anyway, lets wait and see how this AfD pans out. You can't change my opinion. Thats one thing you can't take away from me on this. Mattythewhite 20:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Can i actually vertify that? yes, see those little link things throughout my post, click on them. also on your userpages you openly state you support the club these two non-pro players are currently at[5], yet for clubs in the same division which have players in the exact same situation as these two, you propose the deletion of,[6] that shows clear bias. also please stop changing the format of my returns here.--SalvoCalcio 20:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Its called indentation. It should be simple enough to understand. Please, stop partonising me for a start. Yes, I support York City. Okay then. Its not like I'm making an article for Chaz Wrigley, who clearly isn't notable. I'm making articles for players who have been at FL clubs. Thats how I've usually done it. So please don't falsley accuse me of this bias. Players at the Cameron Mawer AfD have not even been at FL clubs, so there we go, as I explained, I also believe they should not be on Wikipedia. Mattythewhite 20:58, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Can i actually vertify that? yes, see those little link things throughout my post, click on them. also on your userpages you openly state you support the club these two non-pro players are currently at[5], yet for clubs in the same division which have players in the exact same situation as these two, you propose the deletion of,[6] that shows clear bias. also please stop changing the format of my returns here.--SalvoCalcio 20:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Can you actually verify that? About me coming up with far-fetched explanations? Don't falsley accuse me of things. Dude, you seriously need to changed your attitude on Wikipedia. You've offended me on here already, and you've certainly annoyed others. Anyway, lets wait and see how this AfD pans out. You can't change my opinion. Thats one thing you can't take away from me on this. Mattythewhite 20:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- These two players have never played in the professional level football league, which is the standard for football players articles and is the exact reason you nominanted several other articles for deletion[4]. however, as you're a "fan" of the club these two play for, you're trying to invent far fetch exceptions which fall short of the policies set out for players. non-professional players, who have never played at professional level don't get articles.. you're well aware of this.-- SalvoCalcio 20:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- First of all, they've never even played for a team in the FL. IMO, just even being apart of a professional team is good enough. I know several other Wikipedians go by this, but it is just several peoples opinions. And still, surely FL Trophy asserts notability for sure.. but we'll wait and see what other people think. Mattythewhite 20:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Sides from the Conference National (non professional) also take part in the Football League Trophy, which you're fully aware of. this does not mean we go against the concensus set down and create articles for non-professional players all of a sudden (which you're also fully aware of[2]). the facts speak for themselves[3], never played at pro-level, never played in the pro-leagues... fails WP:N.-SalvoCalcio 20:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- He's played at a professional level. In the FL Trophy; may not be the FL itself, but it still inserts notability. Mattythewhite 20:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- As sources show[1], he has never played a game for a professional club, he never made the cut in the first team and as thus has never played in The Football League. the club he is contracted to now is not full-professional, it is concensus that only Football League standard players have articles, which this guy doesn't match up to. same thing goes for Onome Sodje.--SalvoCalcio 20:18, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Comment - I shall vote later, however for now this - "sides from the Conference National (non professional) also take part in the Football League Trophy," needs commenting on. The Conference National is absolutely not "non professional" as that would mean it is an amateur league when it clearly is not. It is, for the most part, a fully professional league nowadays, with a small number of semi-professional clubs which is why players who have only ever played at this level are not currently included on wikipedia. But it is totally incorrect to describe the league as "non professional". ♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 22:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - Based on the text in the article nominated, Hartlepool United is a pro league team. Yeah I know it's very little appearence in the pros, but it's enough to meet WP:BIO.--JForget 22:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - The FL Trophy is a competition which includes professional league teams (those in Leagues 1 and 2 of the Football League), therefore even one appearance in that for a professional league side (Hartlepool) is enough to satisfy our guidelines for footballers. EliminatorJR Talk 23:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
- In WP:BIO it states for athletes specifically, "Competitors who have played in a fully professional league". it makes no mention of cup competitions which semi-pro teams players also play in, it states actually playing in a professional league.-SalvoCalcio 03:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- (Moved this comment to make it clearer) The FA Cup includes non-professional sides too - therefore given your argument, a player who had played one game for, say, Manchester United in the FA Cup wouldn't be notable either. More to the point, would this player really be more or less notable if his single game for Hartlepool had been a league game rather than a cup one? EliminatorJR Talk 06:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't write the wikipedia guidelines in regards to players having to have played in a fully professional league to have an article, thats just what the specific policy is on it. there is also a huge difference between playing for Manchester United in the FA Cup (premiership teams are only entered in later stages)... and playing a couple of minutes in a lower level half-pro/semi-professional cup for Hartlepool.--SalvoCalcio 14:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- As far as the guidelines are concerned, it's actually not that different. Probably the guideline should say "has played professionally" or something along those lines. EliminatorJR Talk 14:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't write the wikipedia guidelines in regards to players having to have played in a fully professional league to have an article, thats just what the specific policy is on it. there is also a huge difference between playing for Manchester United in the FA Cup (premiership teams are only entered in later stages)... and playing a couple of minutes in a lower level half-pro/semi-professional cup for Hartlepool.--SalvoCalcio 14:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- (Moved this comment to make it clearer) The FA Cup includes non-professional sides too - therefore given your argument, a player who had played one game for, say, Manchester United in the FA Cup wouldn't be notable either. More to the point, would this player really be more or less notable if his single game for Hartlepool had been a league game rather than a cup one? EliminatorJR Talk 06:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- In WP:BIO it states for athletes specifically, "Competitors who have played in a fully professional league". it makes no mention of cup competitions which semi-pro teams players also play in, it states actually playing in a professional league.-SalvoCalcio 03:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - by the time Turnbull appeared in the Football League Trophy, Conference sides were no longer invited anyway. Therefore, in my eyes, it is of the same notability as the Football League Cup. - fchd 06:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Keep - Based on the reasoning above of his appearances in the FL Trophy which was when he played in it a professional competition. ♦Tangerines BFC ♦·Talk 13:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Borderline keep on the basis that he was/is a professional who played for a football league club in an officially sanctioned competition and that the article is quite well referenced, which implies notability. Keep for now. --Malcolmxl5 20:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
