Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Philip Turnbull (2nd nomination)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. John254 01:09, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Philip Turnbull
AfDs for this article:
Contested PROD. Has not made an appearance in a fully professional league, so fails WP:BIO. robwingfield «T•C» 12:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football related deletions. robwingfield «T•C» 12:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep for the same reason as in the first AfD; he played in a Football League Trophy game between two Football League clubs (Hartlepool v Rotherham). пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep per пﮟოьεԻ 57. Professional football player. The prod was inappropriate as there was a previous AfD. There was no need to create yet another AfD due to an incorrect prod. --Oakshade (talk) 17:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - actually, there was a need to create a further AfD, as WP:ATHLETE requires the player to have made an appearance in a fully professional league. The FL Trophy is not a league, so appearances in that competition do not indicate notability. As such, this keep vote and the one preceding are invalid. robwingfield «T•C» 18:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you do not have the authority to "invalidate" other editors "votes" based on your POV and interpretation of a single guideline sub-clause. Last time I looked Gateshead F.C. is part of the Northern Premier League. --Oakshade (talk) 18:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- I haven't done so. WP:ATHLETE has. Yes, Gateshead F.C. is part of the Northern Premier League, which is an amateur league. Your point? robwingfield «T•C» 18:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hartlepool United is pro league team and he played for them. Whether is was for a Football League Trophy or not, he still played for them. --Oakshade (talk) 18:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Please re-read WP:ATHLETE. Competitors must "have competed in a fully professional league". Cup competitions are excluded. The article itself states that Turnbull did not made a league appearance for Hartlepool. robwingfield «T•C» 18:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- You're missing the fact that this person passes WP:BIO which trumps the sub-clause of WP:ATHLETE, but this person being the subject of independent secondary reliable sources.[1] [2]. An athlete could be part of no league and still pass WP:BIO. --Oakshade (talk) 00:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- One of those links is a primary source, but no matter. Put simply, I don't see why this article should be kept despite not meeting the notability criteria which "editors are strongly advised to follow", when hundreds of other football biographies have been deleted for not meeting those very criteria. robwingfield «T•C» 07:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't know what articles you're looking at, but they are both primarily about this person. Along with all the other references in the article, this person passes WP:BIO. Just by you typing "not meeting the notability criteria" doesn't override the reality of the contrary. --Oakshade (talk) 16:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't see anywhere where Rob claims that the articles are not about the person in question. What he states is that one is a primary source (i.e. published by a non-independent authority, namely the club for which the player in question plays). Just to clarify..... ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't know what articles you're looking at, but they are both primarily about this person. Along with all the other references in the article, this person passes WP:BIO. Just by you typing "not meeting the notability criteria" doesn't override the reality of the contrary. --Oakshade (talk) 16:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- One of those links is a primary source, but no matter. Put simply, I don't see why this article should be kept despite not meeting the notability criteria which "editors are strongly advised to follow", when hundreds of other football biographies have been deleted for not meeting those very criteria. robwingfield «T•C» 07:44, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- You're missing the fact that this person passes WP:BIO which trumps the sub-clause of WP:ATHLETE, but this person being the subject of independent secondary reliable sources.[1] [2]. An athlete could be part of no league and still pass WP:BIO. --Oakshade (talk) 00:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- Please re-read WP:ATHLETE. Competitors must "have competed in a fully professional league". Cup competitions are excluded. The article itself states that Turnbull did not made a league appearance for Hartlepool. robwingfield «T•C» 18:38, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hartlepool United is pro league team and he played for them. Whether is was for a Football League Trophy or not, he still played for them. --Oakshade (talk) 18:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- I haven't done so. WP:ATHLETE has. Yes, Gateshead F.C. is part of the Northern Premier League, which is an amateur league. Your point? robwingfield «T•C» 18:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you do not have the authority to "invalidate" other editors "votes" based on your POV and interpretation of a single guideline sub-clause. Last time I looked Gateshead F.C. is part of the Northern Premier League. --Oakshade (talk) 18:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - actually, there was a need to create a further AfD, as WP:ATHLETE requires the player to have made an appearance in a fully professional league. The FL Trophy is not a league, so appearances in that competition do not indicate notability. As such, this keep vote and the one preceding are invalid. robwingfield «T•C» 18:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
- Keep per previous AfD. WP:ATHLETE is a guideline, not a policy. It doesn't "require" or "invalidate" anything. --SmashvilleBONK! 00:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
