Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Phil Trautwein

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Proto::► 14:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phil Trautwein

Phil Trautwein (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Non-professional athlete with no significant claims of notability; prod removed without comment. --Alan Au 00:56, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Bigtop 01:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy delete CSD A7 -- Selmo ^(talk) 01:29, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. Totally non-notable. --Haemo 04:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete - fails WP:BIO. MER-C 06:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete. Barely notable. If he improves (and he may), we can put it back later. Realkyhick 06:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• "If he improves"? So we should determine who gets an entry based on how well we think an athlete plays? That's ridiculous. Even if that were the standard, Trautwein is an All-SEC starter on the 2006 SEC champion college football team, and a potential national champion. Further, he is a scholar athlete award winner. Combined, he's easily notable. He's quoted frequently in the local, state, and even national press, and his name is synonomous with the UF offensive line. Finally, there are hundreds of similar pages for less notable athletes on less notable teams, and no one has yet had a problem with them. Keep this entry! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.104.190.22 (talk) 19:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC).
• Reading the above, I started thinking this might be a keeper, but a search indicates that he's a second-team All-SEC selection, I didn't see a mention in reliable news resources for the scholar-athlete award, and he came up only in three Google News links listing the All-SEC selection. Normally, I'd think a starter on a national championship contending team would be notable enough, but I don't see any good reliable sources to suggest notability at this time. Delete with no prejudice against recreation when better sources are available. His senior year will probably help. Tony Fox (arf!) 21:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete without prejudice per Tony Fox. If he improves, indeed, because then he will be more notable, as will presumably be demonstrated in reliable sources. --Dhartung | Talk 23:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
• "Charged with protecting Leak’s blindside this season, Trautwein has been an integral part of a UF offensive line that has yielded just 22 sacks in 13 games. He has started each of Florida’s outings this season, and graded out at a team-high 82 percent following the 21-14 win over Georgia in Jacksonville. His recognition as an All-SEC performer by the league’s coaches is the first of his collegiate career." Taken from: http://www.gatorzone.com/story.php?id=11344&html=football/news/20061205052100.html&sport=footb

Not to mention, Trautwein is one of only a very small group who has graded out as "champion" (a distinction reserved for only the best game performances) every week of the 2006 season. To anyone who follows Gator football, it's a no-brainer that Trautwein is notable.72.196.99.99 02:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'm looking for verificaiton of the scholar athlete award, but he won it the week of the LSU game. Maybe CBS keeps a chronicle of winners, but I don't know...Gnewburn 02:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• Here are the guidelines for bio notability: "Sportspeople/athletes/competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport such as swimming, or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports or other competitive activities that are themselves considered notable, including college sports in the United States. Articles about first team squad members who have not made a first team appearance may also be appropriate, but only if the individual is at a club of sufficient stature that most members of its squad are worthy of articles. Third-party verification from a non-trivial publication outside of publications by sponsors of the sport or activity should be provided to demonstrate that the subject is widely recognized—meeting the first criterion—as performing in a fully professional league or at the highest level."

Trautwein CLEARLY meets these criteria. He's a second-year starter on the number 2 college football team in the country (which could be the national champion on Monday), and he grades out among the top offensive performers nearly every week. Couple that with his academic credentials "e.g., "Scholar Athlete of the Week," and there's no question he meets the wikipedia standard. This article should be kept--like the hundreds of similar articles that have been kept without controversy.Gnewburn 02:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Delete - Unfortunately, I think you misread the notability requirement... "or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports or other competitive activities. Obviously college football doesn't even come close to fulfilling that requirement. Trautwein may be having a decent college career - but in my opinion, he hasn't sufficiently distinguished himself from the other thousands of college football athletes. - CosmicPenguin (Talk) 03:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The very next clause in the sentence you cite reads, "...including college sports in the United States." Obviously that includes college football. And my point is that Trautwein is sufficiently similar to (in fact, more notable than) the hundreds of other college athletes who have non-controversial wikipedia pages, that his page should remain as well.72.196.99.99 04:13, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Comment. I think the "including college sports" clause is meant to cover sports for which there is no professional league, which would make the college version the "highest level." --Alan Au 05:32, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I read the "highest level" language to mean the highest amateur level, which includes college sports. And college football is not only a "mainly amateur sport." It's an entirely amateur sport. Even if we just use "football," that sport is also clearly "mainly amateur." Pop Warner, middle school, high school, city league, intramural, and pick-up football games are all amateur. There are thousands of independent amateur football leagues around the country, and only two professional leagues that I'm aware of (NFL and Arena League). Of the thousands of amateur football leagues, NCAA college football is the "highest level." Further, by your reasoning Troy Smith, the 20006 Heisman Trophy winner, isn't notable because he hasn't been paid yet. But certainly a Heisman Trophy winner is more notable than some fifth string NFL player no one's ever heard of. "Getting a paycheck" shouldn't be the standard for athlete notability, and isn't according to the WIkipedia guidelines. Amateurs can be notable, and Trautwein certainly is.150.104.190.22 13:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, that "athlete notability" bit has got to go, and this thing is yet another argument why. Notability requires multiple non-trivial secondary source mentions, period, and no such thing is shown in this article. Seraphimblade 05:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Abysmal failure of WP:BIO. S h a r k f a c e 2 1 7 23:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
• The Florida Gators just won the national championship, in large measure because of the play of the offensive line (particularly Trautwein's side). He's absolutely notable... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.196.99.99 (talk) 03:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.