Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Personalities from Iaşi

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Avi 06:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personalities from Iaşi

Personalities from Iaşi (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) - (View log)

This article is a POV duplicate for List of people from Iaşi. The user who created it has decided to fork content after he had tried to delete list entries that he considered "non-notable", although they obviously meet the criteria for inclusions (they have, or are likely to have articles written about them, and they were born in Iaşi). He has then proceeded to create a list of people whom he considers important over other for Iaşi, to whose names he has added misspelled and inaccurate summaries. Therefore, Delete. Dahn 02:36, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

This list is different from the other one in that in must have people with major contributions. I repeat, MAJOR. I still have to see an article why Mihai Gheorghiu Bujor has any importance (bad or good, it doesn't matter).
And about the POV: who decides who is important to have an article here? You? I repeat: if I make an article about me, I am allowed to include myself in the list? If yes, I hope you understand about what my list is.
If you think someone is not notable enough to be a "Personality", it can be removed (presumbly you give some reason). If there is any list you could delete, it's your list: your list can be constructed if you only put a tag "Iasi" to the article of the person born in Iasi. Simple enough, so if you want I can do it for you.
If I misspelled any name, forgive me, I would correct the entry.
I would not discuss the other points because they are not relevant for the topic: deletion of my list.

cristi 08:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

cristi 08:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

A list around a subjective criterion is not a list. A fork created for a subjective reason is still a fork. Dahn 08:52, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Subjective?? I can give you examples of national or international recognition for every entry. How is this subjective? About your argument that my list is just a fork where I removed the entries I didn't liked: I specifically told that the list for personality would have people who had big contributions to Romania or Iasi. What is the contribution of Nicolae Vogoride? Just because he was a Moldavian governor he deserves to be in the list with personalities? For that matter who is Samuel Leibowitz? Hes entry is 3 lines and he was an attorney in USA. I am very sure that it is not subjective for me to not consider him a personality. I stand by my argument that you have a list with people that are born in Iasi, mine is with people who contributed to the advancement of Romania. For me this is complettely different from what you want. I told you, your list could be generated if you put a tag born-in-Iasi to the articles. cristi 09:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Association fallacy. Moreover, you make no note of the fact that there is no objective difference between people and "personalities", which is what the issue actually is. I also note from you repetitive "tags" comment that you have little to no understanding of how wikipedia works. I also challenge you to come up with an example where such content forking has been allowed on wikipedia. (I can come up with about 1,000 where it has not.) These points are painfully obvious, so I'm done debating your appeal to probability. Dahn 10:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. bogdan 10:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I think I know what is the problem. You don't know what subjective is.Let me help you with this one: modified or affected by personal views, experience, or background (from Merriam-Webster). Let me point to you an other word: Objective: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations. If I say some one is not important doesn't mean that I am subjective. In fact the fallacy applies to your argument: there is no objective difference between people and "personalities". Maybe you should check the link yourself.
So, I don't see where I'm subjective if I only state what the majority of people are saying (I feel I must explain to you that "majority of people" means, in my context, what is considered to be intelligent people. Not you or me, but people who managed to demonstrate that they are capable to judge a person *objectively*. Again, check the definitions.).
One more thing, because I feel you need it: personality - distinction or excellence of personal and social traits; also : a person having such quality b : a person of importance, prominence, renown, or notoriety. Hope it helps you understand what the words you use mean.
  • Delete. Not only is the article poorly written but it's difficult for me to believe that all (or any) of the red-linked individuals are notable pursuant to WP:NOTE. If this article is not deleted, it should be merged to List of people from Iasi and all that birthdate and death date stuff should be removed. If the person has an article, his or her birth and death dates will be in the article. If the person doesn't have an article, he or she shouldn't be on the list. --Charlene 22:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Also, in English calling someone a "personality" carries the connotation that they are a little peculiar, strange, not quite normal. It's often used as a euphemism for "really weird person". Which may be one of the reasons why Wikipedia uses the wording "People from Iasi", not "Personalities from Iasi". --Charlene 23:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
    In Romanian, the word "personalitate" means "personality", but also "remarkable person, celebrity". :-) bogdan 23:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree it's poorly written, but it's a copy of the other list with the persons that are not notable removed. The reason for deletion was POV. About the birthdates, they can be removed easily if it's a problem. The other points apply to the other list as well (the red links). I did this list because I didn't wanted to be polluted by small time, insignificant people. A list where only the persons with great value for the city will be inserted. What is so hard to understand? I want to know if the reason for deletion has changed or it's still because of my POV, like in the first line on this page. It seems Charlene didn't even read the first line of the discussion, but she still want's the page deleted. If "personality" is such a bad word (but from the english definition it has the same meaning as in romanian), it can be changed with something else. I want to know the reason why it has to be deleted: it is still POV, or the quality (I can work on that), or both. I have some definition for the words used in this discussion in my other post, so maybe you should read those before posting (this is for Charlene). For the last time: my list is supposed to have great minds and people with a great impact on the lifes of the citizens. Dhan, maybe you should respond to Charlene also, because we had some discussion about some of the red links I removed. cristi 08:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • One more thing, because I don't know where to ask. I think it will be better if we had a standard for the cities, like there is one for the countries. Just an ideea. cristi 08:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I just found this link: Cimitirul_Bellu. Don't tell me on that link they should insert all the people buried there? cristi 13:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Again, and this is the last time I'm replying on this topic (given that the issue is as clear-cut to me as clear-cut gets): the red links that you see there are to future articles (part of which I'm planning to create in the future). Since I do not particularly enjoy creating illegible and ridiculous stubs such as the ones you created for various people (such as Gheorghe Brăescu), I take my time in creating actual articles (Bujor is on my list, and I have already mentioned him in three articles or so). Also, since I do not want to go and do the same research over and over again (or reverting once I do create those articles) I would appreciate it if the list is not purged due to who some guy has hard about and who he has not.
A while back, I bumped into a question about Bujor and any details of his life, as posed to Wiki reference desk. It had been answered by an editor, who indicated that Bujor was [at the time] only mentioned as red link in the PSDR article (which I had created). See Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Humanities/2006 September 18#Mihai Gheorghiu Bujor. Following the same theory as Croisti Falcas, one would remove red links willy-nilly in that article as well, leaving us with no context or data on a relevant person.
As it is, I am one of two or three persons contributing information on the entire interwar period in Romania, as well as on related subjects. At a quick glance, Bujor is mentioned, with details, in 4 major sources I have tapped into. I cannot be expected to continuously furnish information on topics, and I certainly will not do it because some user, who is not even polite to me, and who has contributed nothing of any value to the project, is pretending I cannot prove they are relevant. I also cannot help but point out that the said user has no idea of how wikipedia works, and, for some reason, imagines that collecting particular data on particular persons is an easy job.
As I have mentioned already, virtually all those people are on the list are mentioned in the standard issue (and not at all exhaustive) Romanian Encyclopedic Dictionary of 1978. It is utter bullshit to claim that there is some other, hidden, criterion of notability that has somehow elluded me, and that it is "objective" just because Cristi Falcas can type certain words in ALL CAPITALS.
You, Cristi Falcas, on the other hand, have no access to sources, and little knowledge of your own country's history (it is frankly embarrassing that a residence of Iaşi found out who Nicolae Vogoride was yesterday, and that this Iaşi resident has produced theories about the depth of my culture).
Bottom line: deleting those entries is hurting the informative value of the project, and only answers to the whim of a person who has not even understood what this project is about. Dahn 14:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
First, I just responded to Charlene about the removal of red links, no reason the call me names for this one. I have removed the link to people from Iasi because I started to see what you want. I still have other points unsolved, but I will take them on the List of people from Iaşi discussion page. Have a good day. cristi 15:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.