Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Persistent Realms LLC

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Persistent Realms LLC

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Was tagged for CSD-A7, but the article is long, researched well and the editor is committed, so probably deserves more than a snap judgment. However - the article also doesn't appear to be asserting notability; it appears to be a bit crystal ball-gazing; it also, from the talk page where the author is detailing his edits, appears to be original research. I'd like community input on this one, please.➨ ЯEDVERS 14:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I will leave this up to you to decide, I would just like to point out that Iron Realms Entertainment has had a stub for 2 years now, while ours was quickly promoted out of that status. As for the crystal ball gazing, the editor Crashaddict spoke with Ryan(CEO) and myself(CTO) about many things to make sure they were accurate. Most of his other information came from our official forums, wiki, and blog and thus is accurate and things that we have already completed. The company has been around since 2003, and Ilyrias will be released at the start of 2007. Our official forums have almost 7k posts and received over 1.3k unique visitors last month, in our genre that is more than most games have in players. I hope that gives you enough information about the two things you were concerned about. PR Baram 15:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

I find this article quite useful and it has attracted quite a bit of players to join up on PR. It would be a shame to delete it, when some supporters of Persistent Realms work so hard to keep it up to date. Just being a player. 205.214.210.31 16:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

As PR is very open in its development and tries to include the community’s ideas and wishes for the upcoming game, I find this article very useful for people that would like to know more about the company and how it came to be. 193.154.218.24 17:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Any article here deleted regarding PR will have to be recreated, as I can predict that after Ilyrias opens, it will become one of the largest MUDs on the internet. Given the company's dedication to its players, and all of the recent updates to the game, I'm awaiting the day when the game opens, having none nothing about it one month ago. 216.166.206.18 17:54, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete I was the one that tagged it CSD-A7. It doesn't meet the guidelines in WP:CORP at all, and doesn't seem to assert any other kind of notability either. Whatever information about the company is useful on Wikipedia can be merged to the article on their MUD in development. Ehheh 18:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Interesting, but doesn't meet notability guidelines. --InShaneee 19:27, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

• • Currently ranked 19th on TMS, one of the two largest mud ranking sites. Have held steady at 27th for the past 2 months. I know this probably isn't the kind of "ranking" people have in mind, but it is what most people in the genre use. Iron Realms Entertainment's four games are normally in the top ten, and Persistent Realms is a split off(all of the employees are ex-IRE staff) from that company. The company's name is also already well known, and comes up in many discussions about IRE and new games. PR Baram 03:28, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep The issue, I think, is that it would make more sense to merge the MUD article with this one rather than vice versa, but that both articles contain enough distinct and unique (but still useful) information to warrant separate articles. Either way, this becomes more an issue of merging rather than one of deletion. 86.128.20.118 22:50, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Naconkantari 22:55, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Both articles should be kept distinct, as, although the mud is part of the company, the company is not simply the mud. Also, the mud is currently in the top 100 on TMS page, holding onto 27th place. This is useful information for those interested in the game, and also for those behind the game. This is an informative article, and useful to those new that wish to learn more. – — … ° ≈ ± − × ÷ ← → · § Charitie: --68.187.140.192 23:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Comment: Solicitation for outside vote spamming here. --InShaneee 01:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• • I have removed that forum topic, over zelous players. PR Baram 03:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep: I've edited the article to fit in with Wikipedia guidelines, hopefully. As for notability, Ilyrias is currently the highest-ranked not-yet-released game at topmudsites.com and expected to have a playerbase of 200 players or more once it opens, which definitely makes it, and therefore the company responsible, significant in the MUD community. --Verithrax 05:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Reading some of the things for notablility I have done the Google and Alexa tests. Unless I did them wrong, a search for Persistent Realms returns 667k hits on Google and 83,759 hits on Alexa. PR Baram 13:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Putting "Persistent Realms" in quotes weeds out all the unrelated pages on other MMO topics. You get 1,300 on google that way, and it looks like the majority of those are various links to your own website (the forums specifically.) Alexa ranking (not search hits) is 5,227,388. Anything above 100,000 is so sparesly linked that the rankings aren't even reliable. Ehheh 13:23, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up, at least now I know how that system works. PR Baram 13:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete The product looks like a clandestine fan game to me. Maybe if it makes a splash once it's released, it would work. But not now. --Kitch 12:18, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
  • The product is being developed on a legal license of Rapture by professionals with experience in the field; it doesn't qualify as 'clandestine', much less 'fan game'. The discussion boards for the game, pre-release, have reached the first page at topmudsites.com and are significant and notable inside the MUD community. --Verithrax 03:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
• Page has been updated slightly with better internal and external linkage and more recent/detailed information. 86.128.20.118 15:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

• DeleteThis is a promotional page for a non-notable product. The rankings on TMS are meaningless (indeed, PR Baram has stated on the forums that just a few people voting every day are all it took to get them there), and nobody that I'm aware of pays any attention to them as rankings of anything but how much traffic you're exchanging with TMS. Persistent Realms is a company with no released products and an unreleased product with no buzz that doesn't come directly from the company itself. OneThousandYears 19:02, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Miss quoting at it's best. On the TMS forums I said it only required a couple people to start voting, which brings in more interested people. In 5 months time we went from unknown to being brought up in conversations on TMC and TMS, a large chunk of IRE's Lusternia are active members on the forums, discussions about us brought up on most of IRE's forums as well. 245 active forum members, most of which visit the forums multiple times a day, nearly 7k forum posts in that time. Then there's the perspective player made wiki for us, discussions on other peoples blogs, player made IRC chat room(which is used all the time), and was even offered the IRE online radio station(player made and run) to be given to us instead of IRE. Far from unknown. PR Baram 04:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.