Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patriots (Metal Gear)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. - Mailer Diablo 02:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Patriots (Metal Gear)

Absolutely irredeemable gamecruft. None of it is sourced, hardly any of it even calls out to what game it's from, and no article could possibly benefit from the addition of this original-synthesis detail about a fictional universe with little or no reference to the real world.

This was prodded, but it was deprodded without comment. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Incidentally, this fails WP:WAF, WP:FICT (which counsels merging it, but no article could possibly benefit from the merge of this OR and excess detail), WP:NOR, WP:WAF, and WP:V. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Keep - I'm not a fan of having pages on every single insignificant aspect of video games. That said, the Metal Gear series is popular, the Patriots are pretty significant in the Metal gear universe, and explication on the group isn't entirely unwarranted. (The length of the article says more about the complicated nature of Metal Gear game storylines than about obsessive attention to detail by fans.) Some sources could almost certainly be found for the material here to resolve the OR concerns. -- H·G (^words/_works) 01:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I think this article should stay in place. I did the origional deprodding earlier today, the fourth of august, but didn't have enough time to leave a comment. This article does in fact contain alot of insight to certain aspects of the name of "The Patriots" and it's interpretation. For instance: In the game Metal Gear Solid 2, it is not well explained and discussed as to why they have the alternate name of "la-li-lu-le-lo" and actually taught me something new about a series I thought I knew everything about. If the goal of a wikipedia article is to inform, then this one has lived up to the task. Also, it was said that it rarely states what game it is from. However, it is mentioned numerous times that the organization is from the game MGS2, and from the metal gear solid series throughout the article including in the first sentence and furthermore in the template at the end. Japan Acid 03:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

• Strong keep this is a very important aspect of the games. The article may need a lot of work, but it should not be deleted. Konman72 11:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. RandyWang (^raves/_{review me!}) 14:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep but remove all cruft-Peephole 14:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)--

• Hell Randy make those stupid CVG notices smaller, Right down to business, The Strongest Keep possible. I told you you would run out of support trying to delete all the Metal Gear articles. The Patriots are the main villian in the MG series, this warrants an article, as does FOXHOUND and Outer Heaven which i assume you'll move onto next. With some cleaning up this article would be one of the few in the MG series that could reach FA status aswell as there is a whole lot you can write about(The Bread 03:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC))

  This article has more words about the Patriots than all of the games combined. It's irretrievable original research, and calling them the "main villain the Metal Gear series" when they don't appear save MGS3 and in the dramatic reveal in the ending of MGS and MGS2 is silly. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

  Of course it contains more words about the Patriots than all the games combined, it's an article on the Patriots. And you can't delete it, because we all want it to stay. That would be abuse of Admin and it would go against the whole consensus policy (The Bread 04:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC))

  This article says more about the Patriots than the games say about the Patriots. Half of this stuff is fanonish filling in the gaps by series fans, and the other half is extremely detailed plot summary of the games. How on Earth is it encyclopedic? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

  Even if you were right it would mean the article needs a rewrite, not deletion. The topic of the article is noteworthy and deserves an article, thus it should not be deleted. Also, the article having more info about them than the games is inevitable since the games only mention them in passing. As long as it gets referenced then it should be fine (and by referenced I mean to one of the games and/or an aspect of the canon universe so not direct referencing to published works) Konman72 10:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• Keep — seems notable enough. Don't delete an article because it still has growth and developmental needs, as that turns editors off. I'm a "cruft fighter", but I'm also a realist. Let this serve as a wakeup call for the editors. — Deckiller 06:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep, but totally gut and rewrite. This article needs a lot of work, but can be developed into something worth keeping. RandyWang (^{chat me up}/_{fix me up}) 08:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.