Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Parley Sports F.C.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. --Coredesat 07:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parley Sports F.C.

Football (soccer) club that plays in the Bournemouth Saturday Football League, which is at the 15th level of the English football league system, and formerly played in the Dorset Combination, which is at the 11th. Policy in WP:CORP is that only clubs that play at the top 10 levels are inherently notable, and there is no reason to suggest from the article that this club is notable by any other means. Qwghlm 18:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. Qwghlm 18:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator. As said, unless someone can provide sources for this club being notable in any other way, it fails WP:CORP. – Elisson • T • C • 18:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. _└ ^OzLawyer / _talk ^┐ 19:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Non-notable sports team. Catchpole 20:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as per nomination. - fchd 20:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
• PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THIS PAGE ALL THE INFORMATION HAS BEEN SUPPLY BY :PARLEY SPORTS CLUB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.81.223 (talk • contribs)
  • Comment Where the information came from has no relevance when it comes to deciding whether a subject is notable enough to have an article.... ChrisTheDude 07:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Actually, it very much does. Provenances of sources is important. If the sources of the information were independent of the club, and were in-depth articles about the club published in magazines, newspapers, books, or suchlike, then they would count towards notability. See the primary notability criterion in WP:CORP. So if you want to make a case, 86.29.81.223, cite sources where people independent of the club have published non-trivial works of their own about it. Uncle G 10:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Bad choice of wording on my part there I think, Uncle G. I took the choice of the word "supply" to mean that the anonymous user was suggesting that the article should stay solely because it (the article) had been created by someone who is a member of the club, that's what I was suggesting isn't sufficient to justify it being kept.....I think..... ChrisTheDude 11:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete The Parley Sports Club can supply this information on its own website. Resolute 03:28, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
• Possibly not the best place to do so, but initially I wanted to raise the suggestion that we be more flexible when proposing club articles for deletion. If there is an article on a club, even sub level 10, but which already contains a significant amount of information within it, including links to other wiki articles, our focus should be on reasons to keep the article not why to deleted it. The WP:CORP policy says a club is notable if "The club... has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the club... itself"', so if one can find a multiple of mentions of the club on articles from independant websites, then the article should be retained.

In this instance, however, the article is not that detailed. I can find little mention of the club other than in football databases and similar online encyclopedic sites. Furthermore, I cannot find the club itself's website - I have found the club's youth football website Parley Sports Rangers, which contains no link to a senior club - which raises the question whether there is a senior team? Added to the confusion about a possible notable past player (see here) and all in all I am inclined to vote to delete this article. -- MLD · T · C · @:  13:44, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Parley does have a senior team if you look on Bournemouth FA it will tell you that the first team plays on a Saturday in Divison 3 and they have a reserve team on Sundays in Divison 2 i dont know the mangers names, thats why i added the youth teams mangers name to the football info box. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.85.160 (talk • contribs)
• User:86.29.87.237 added this section to the article, I removed it as it is wholly inappropriate for the main article. I guess if anything it should be here:

  ==!! PLEASE SAVE THIS PAGE FROM DELETION !!==

  !! THIS INFORMATION HAS BEEN TAKEN FROM A NEWS PAPER ARTICLE OUT OF THE LOCAL BOURNEMOUTH DAILY ECHO SO THEY WILL HAVE A REFERANCE OF IT IF YOU CONTACT THEM, THE TITLE OF THE ARTICLE WAS CALLED 'PRIDE OF PARLEY' I AM NOT SURE WHAT YEAR IT WAS PRODUCED!!

  ALL THE INFORMATION SUPPLY BELOW IS NOT FALSE IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM AND PARLEY SPORTS CLUB DO NOT HAVE A CLUB WEBSITE TO DISPLAY THIS INFORMATION ON.

  AND AS YOU CAN SEE PARLEY SPORTS F.C NO LONGER HAVE A FOOTBALL TEAM THAT PLAYS IN THE DORSET COMBINATION BUT HAS A JOINT LINK TO THE Bournemouth Saturday Football League PAGE AS THIS IS THE LEAGUE THE CLUB NOW HAS A TEAM PLAYING IN.

• The above moved here by ChrisTheDude 15:04, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I've searched the archive of the Bournemouth Daily Echo, which goes back to 2000, for an article by that title, and several variants, and come up with nothing. Uncle G 18:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
    • yer you have only searched back to 2000 i am not sure what date it was as it was a news paper cutting with information about the club i found. I no the reports name was called Karenza Morton contact her or the Bournemouth Echo they should find it for you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.85.160 (talk • contribs)

• Delete. If the team moves up enough levels in the English football league system, Wikipedia can include an article about it at that time. --Metropolitan90 15:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep all history on Parley Sports taken from the Bournemouth ECHO if they can confirm that it has been taken from there paper, keep information about 'Club Information' and the Football Information Box. make inprovements to the page by adding the club logo and a picture of the clubhouse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.85.160 (talk • contribs)
  • Comment The issue at hand is that the majority of editors deem the club not to be notable. Adding the logo or a photo of the clubhouse to the article will not make the club any more notable..... ChrisTheDude 23:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete My local town paper used to write up reviews of the local Pop Warner football (for non americans; its a youth-level American football league) It doesn't make them notable and worthy of an encyclopedia article. If my church's softball team gets a newspaper article, can I write a WikiPedia entry for them? NO. Verfiablility is a necessary but not sufficient cause for keeping an article. Also needed is a proof of Notability. This team does not seem to rate as notable, since they play at level 15... When they get promoted to a top-10 level team, then they will be worthy --Jayron32 21:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
• you lot are like a bunch of old women god whats the big problem ? I made an article about Parley Sports F.C and none of you can say that it's has proof of notability, why dont you contact the Dorset F.A or even the Dorset Premier League for Parley Sports history, the information i added was taken from the Bournemouth Daily Echo can't you phone them to confirm notability. And also I no we are not a top level 10 club but we used to be as you will see in are history we resigned from that League in 2000. Check Are Hits Out On Google for a small village team that used to play in the 'Dorset Premier League' thats pretty good, and as your see the first search result to be found is Parley Sports FC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. So that means most people will use WIKIPEDIA to search history about it. And you want to 'Delete IT' you want to take a look at other pages that are just as bad as are's with nothing on them at all. You look throught the 'Dorset Premier League' pages of teams for this season and see how many have history about them selfs, not many i'll thing your find!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.29.92.124 (talk • contribs)
  • Comment Actually, the google evidence works AGAINST your arguement. In order to be valid subject matter for a Wikipedia article, then the subject needs to have notability outside of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is NOT a means to gain notability; it only documents subjects that have notability verified by reliable third party sources. If a WikiPedia article turns up as the first hit on Google, it is usually a red flag that the WikiPedia article (and NOT an outside source as required by the WikiPedia policy against original research) is the only major place to find this information. As such, it should be deleted. If you have evidence to the contrary, then IMPROVE THE ARTICLE. Calling experienced editors names or complaining that the club should be kept without providing hard facts will not work in your favor. Also, proof of existance is NOT proof of notability. The fact that a single local newspaper wrote about them does not mean that anyone outside of the immediate area has even heard of this club. If they have, then PROVIDE REFERENCES to show that the club is widely known and regarded outside of the immediate Bournmouth/Dorset area. If there is no such evidence, the article is not notable. Even if they were the best level-15 club, that makes them like the 500th best club in England. Again, my Church softball team is pretty good. But it's not the New York Yankees or even the Toledo Mud Hens. --Jayron32 20:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment unless I'm very much mistaken it's the responsibility of the creator of the article to demonstrate the notability of the subject, editors participating in an AfD debate shouldn't need to start phoning up local newspapers to find these things out.... ChrisTheDude 10:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
    • It's the responsibility of people to substantiate their assertions with cited sources. So it's the responsibility of someone who claims that an article exists in the Bournemouth Daily Echo to cite it, giving date of publication, title, and byline. But everyone in an AFD discussion should do research. Uncle G 12:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Yet another comment - I've just noticed that there are a number of clubs currently in the Dorset Premier Football League (level 11) who don't seem to have ever played at a higher level (specifically Blandford United, Bournemouth Sports CM, Cobham Sports, Cranborne, Gillingham Town, Hamworthy Recreation Holt United (Dorset), Poole Borough, Sturminster Marshall, Sturminster Newton United and Westland Sports , so presumably they need to be deleted too......? ChrisTheDude 11:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • "If article X then article Y." is a fallacious argument. Each subject should be assessed on its merits. The best approach, I suggest, is to go through each article and research the subject. Find out what sources exist. If you find good sources, add them to the article (as references or as further reading) in order to improve it and in order to let other editors build upon your work. If you cannot find enough material of suitable provenance and depth to satisfy the notability criteria, then think about deletion. Uncle G 12:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment - The Dorset Premier Football League used to be one level below the Wessex League back when the latter was only one division. When the Wessex League essentially absorbed the Hampshire League, the DPL was placed below the 2nd level of the WL, at the same level as Wessex Div 3 (now called Div 2). That's why the DPL clubs have articles, along with a number of other level 11 leagues: Sussex County League Div 3, South Western League, Devon County League, Central Midlands League, Spartan South Midlands Football League Div 2. These leagues are among the strongest at level 11 (indeed, the CML has applied for level 10 status and the SWL and DCL are merging to form a level 10 league next season). Club pages in a garbage level 11 league like the Northampton Town League are questionable, but club pages in the previously mentioned leagues I think should stay because these leagues consistently supply promotion candidates and FA Vase entrants. --Balerion 01:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Addition - It's worth noting that Parley Sports played in the DPL for four decades, but have more recently run into hard times necessitating a move down to more regional leagues. The larger issue is how we deal with clubs who drop from what's considered a notable level to a non-notable level. This issue was tested in this mass AfD, but in the confusion of the case-by-case basis of each club, nothing was fully discussed. --Balerion 01:54, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
      • Reply It's also the problem that nearly every football club in England is under the auspices of a single governing body. This includes over 700 teams within the top 11 levels of the English football league system alone. Levels 12+ include (i did an approximate count) 450 leagues. Assuming, even conservatively, 15 teams per league, that results in 6750 teams in these divisions, meaning we have well in excess of 7500 teams, probably closer to 8000 teams. That doesn't even count Sunday leagues. SOME standard has to be applied. By analogy, the U.S. has a rather extensive Baseball structure running under the auspices of Major League Baseball and Minor League Baseball. There are also thousands of smaller amateur and semi-pro leagues. Counting ONLY Major and Minor leagues (down to rookie leagues), and including equivalent independant leagues, there are about 400 teams. Assuming that as a reasonable number of potentially notable teams, that matches well to levels 10+ in the football league system. It is unreasonable that the 700th best football team in England recieves notable press coverage beyond, say, a mere note of game scores in a local paper. This team USED TO be as good as the 700th best team. Its currently about the 3000th best team. That can't be notable. --Jayron32 04:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
        • I'm not necessarily advocating a keep, but there will be tougher calls than Parsley Sports in the future - clubs who spend a number of years at level 9, but then drop to level 13...what do you do then? (see: Tuffley Rovers, which was kept) I'm not the biggest fan of the baseball analogy because the US sports structure, legally, practically, and culturally, especially in baseball is completely different from England's. Minor league teams are essentially independently-owned reserve/youth teams and outside the minor league structure, there is no smooth decline in talent like there is from the Football League to the Conference, for example. --Balerion 06:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep The History i added about the club should'nt be delete i mean its good for a club of that size to have that amount of history, not many clubs have any thing as big as that on Wikipedia and i thing they should be the pages you should be looking at for DELETION. We as a football club are very proud of are History in the Dorset Premier Football League and we want to share it with people all around the world or people that have an interest in Lower-league football. I know that the information has been taken from a local newspaper but that article was written up for readers to tell them about what 'Parley Sports Club' has achieved over the years and most of the information added was taken from Parley Sports Club's history, websites and association who will supply you information about Parley Sports F.C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LUIGI909 (talk • contribs)

• HELP Can some one contact people for notability on Parley Sports F.C i.e Kevin Bond manger of A.F.C. Bournemouth or even contact the Local F.A, DORSET, or contact the DPL Contact's because some one thats uses Wikipedia more than me can get the problem sloved as i am NEW to Winkipedia and its seems complicated. THANK YOU —Preceding unsigned comment added by LUIGI909 (talk • contribs)
  • Please sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end ChrisTheDude 15:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

• It apears i have made a mistake by saying that Ron Saunders was manger of Parley Sports indeed he was'nt he was manger at Aston villa and I have now corrected the problem and i am very sorry if this information was seen to be made up or fake in any way. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.29.94.218 (talk • contribs) 14:54, October 18, 2006 (UTC)

• Reply This is in response to the writings of LUIGI909 and 86.29.94.218(anon) above. NO ONE doubts that this football club exists. NO ONE is denying it, or other facts, such as where they play, what league they are in, what their history is, etc. etc. The question is whether such facts warrant that the club is notable. Word of mouth contacts with people involved in the organization, or with local newspapers, or anything else, does NOT establish notability. Please read WIkipedia's guidelines on notability BEFORE you comment on this article. The primary notability criterion is: Does this subject receive 1)significant coverage in 2) several 3) non-trivial sources as 4) a primary focus of the writing. So far, this subject fails on all grounds. We have no evidence of coverage beyond a single newspaper, and no evidence that the coverage is more than scores and results of games. Passing mention in a sports section does not qualify. Do we have articles that review their performance? Have books been written on their history? Are they the subject of ANY critical analysis? If they are, then PROVIDE THE SOURCES. Simply saying "I think the local paper wrote an article on them a few years ago" isn't good enough. Provide book titles and authors, website URLs, newspaper dates and by-lines; give us something to work with. If the ONLY way we can get more information about the subject is to call someone, then they aren't notable. --Jayron32 19:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - playing 5 levels below the notability threshold and never having played at level 10 or above. Nothing otherwise notable. BlueValour 02:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.