Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pamela J. Ball

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete, per valid concerns that this is about two people with the same name, neither of which are adequately sourced, hence the confusion. However, Rosencomet, you've brought up some very strong assertions of notability that would seem to fit our notability guidelines with sourcing for the Hawai'i writer, perhaps a new, sourced, and accurate article could be written? I would be happy to help any way I can. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 21:56, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pamela J. Ball

Pamela J. Ball (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Writer of some new age self-help type books, 75 unique Google hits, all book sales blurbs or lists. No obvious biographical sources, and most of this article is just a book list. Foulsham is a respectable but niche market press (I used to do contract work for them a long time ago). Guy (Help!) 22:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

• Delete - The article is a long list (90% or so of the article) of non-notable books. The only link is to the article subject's personal website. Mattisse (Talk) 22:53, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete Quite a few books, but no reliable sources to verify the content or (for the most part) that the person even exists. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 23:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete As per above commentz XCharltonTilliDieX (talk) 23:44, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per the Hammer. /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 02:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete per consensus. --Sharkface217 02:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Keep. I really don't even understand these comments. This author had two novels set in Hawaii that were best-sellers: Lava and Floating City. They are not "non-notable books". Her books show a career as an author spanning at least ten years. She has over ten books published, some by Random House [1] (10,000 Dreams Interpreted, The Complete Book of Dreams and Dreaming, and The Power of Creative Dreaming), according to their Wikipedia article "the world's largest English-language general trade book publisher", and some by Foulsham [2], a publishing company that's been in business since 1819; these are MAJOR PUBLISHERS. A google search on her name (don't forget to try Pamela Ball, rather than just Pamela J. Ball) shows her to be on the faculty of a university and to have made public appearances as an author. She's also a winner of the Hemingway Short Fiction award. What do you MEAN when you say there is no evidence that she even exists? What do you mean "verify the content", for that matter? What needs "verifying" about the content for her to have a Wikipedia article? And ALL bibliographies are lists of books; how can their length be anything but a GREATER support to the subject's notability? I just don't get this nomination; where are you setting the bar for an author's notability? Rosencomet (talk) 21:31, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I have added more biographical information. Please review the article before making a final decision. For instance, she has novels published by the Penguin Group and W.W. Norton, holds an M.A. in English, is a winner of the Hemingway Short Fiction Award, etc. Rosencomet (talk) 00:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

• Keep as revised, subject appears to be notable for reasons mentioned by Rosen Comet. (jarbarf) (talk) 02:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: there seems to be two Pamela Balls written about in this one article: one from Hawaii who writes fiction, and the other (J.) from Britain who writes self help books. The lack of enough reliable third party sources is the reason they were confused - another good reason why encyclopedia subjects should be notable. -- Jeandré, 2008-03-23t09:00z

I can't find any record of a Pamela Ball or a Pamela J. Ball who was born in Britain or who currently lives there. Some of Ms. Ball's books on dreams and other spiritual & metaphysical topics use the middle initial "J", and some do not. Some of her books were published in the U.K., and some both in the USA and the UK, and of course some have been translated into other languages. None of the publishers of the books I have listed describe her as being from Britain. I would expect the information on the websites of Florida State University, University of Hawaii, and Foulsham Publishing to be pretty reliable. Please point me to this Pamela J. Ball from Britain that you believe there's some confusion about, because I haven't found her anywhere. And how can the author of 18 books, none self-published, not be notable? Rosencomet (talk) 19:29, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per Jeandré. Daniel (talk) 09:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete The subject would appear to not meet our current notability standards for inclusion, observed by the lack of independent, reliable sources. NonvocalScream (talk) 14:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete If the level of source material available doesn't make it possible to distinguish between two similarly named people they are probably not good candidates for inclusion. - cohesion 18:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

• Delete Cohesion said it better than I could have. Avi (talk) 22:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. I would have thought winning the Hemingway Short Fiction Award to be a notable achievement. Is it not? Coccyx Bloccyx (talk) 21:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
• Delete, I apologise if I'm incorrect, and please correct me if I am, but the Hemingway Short Fiction award does not seem to be a major competition/prize/whatever. A Google search only turned up a thousand or so hits, and most of them were polluted with references to Hemingway's own fiction. Apart from that, basically what User:Cohesion said above, I do not see that there is enough information on this person/people available to write a verifiable article. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:16, 25 March 2008 (UTC).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.