Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pai Sho

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Avatar:The Last Airbender. None arguing to "keep and expand" have provided any hint of what out of universe source material may be available to expand from. Lacking out of universe material, it belongs on a fan wiki, not here. History will be left intact, feel free to change the redirect to a different target if desired or to utilize it to merge. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 08:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pai Sho

Pai Sho (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete - non-notable fictional game. No sources attest to the notability of this game either within the series or in a real-world context and the article itself has WP:OR problems. Otto4711 04:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Delete If Nick decides to release this as a board game, then I would have no problem with the article, but with the information now, it can't be salvaged. The Placebo Effect 04:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge I like the article, but then again I'm hardly a fair and balanced observer (I'd like a scratched tin plate if it was packaged in a Avatar box). Without some kind of outside context, maybe a serious effort by some company to make a real-world version of the game, it really is an unimportant article with no relevance outside the show. However, instead of deleting it, I think we should merge it with another Avatar page, perhaps one explaining the culture of the world, since its information isn't inaccurate in and of itself, and the game is important within the show (Apparently more and more so as the series progresses). Now we just need to find some page that somehow pertains to Pai Sho that isn't fan-cruft in and of itself. JBK405 03:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep I think this game will have an increasing importance in the Avatar series. I predict (after seeing up to episode 3:4) that the Order of the White Lotus will have an increasing role in leading the resistance. Iroh has hinted over and over that the White Lotus is more then a game. In 3:4 Iroh (via the recap) and the sword master implied that the society is committed to the advancement of art unrelated to politics and nations. It doesn't hurt that the article is well written and has a good graphic. Still I think the importance of this game has not been fully revealed. --michael180 20:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

• Please see WP:CRYSTAL. Should the game become more important, and should there be reliable sources that attest to the importance/notability of the game, then the article can be recreated. See also WP:PRETTY. The style or appearance of the article isn't relevant. Otto4711 22:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep and Expand, as the game has been a recurring plot element throughout the series, a fact that is not explored in the article as it exists currently. A section explaining its relevance to the plot would make the article more useful and less likely to be deleted. (Failing this, merge it with another article.) -- Lampbane 19:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep or Merge as users above state the game is a notable feature as a plot device within the avatar universe and almost serves as it's 'Quidich'. I think as the show develops more will become known about the mechanics, but someone needs to find the specific episode references & cite them to keep seperate, or just merge into the Avatar article as is to highlight the position of this game. Deleting during the 3rd series only to recreate if a later episode increases its value seems a pointless exercise. Nli10 16:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep and Expand, I agree with the above. The White Lotus tile that was given to Sokka in the episode "Sakka's Master," which shows the continued importance in the series. There is no reason to delete the article at all. Unfamiliarity with a major fantasy series should not result in a major element of the series being removed from Wikipedia Project Shadow —Preceding comment was added at 06:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

• It is easy to say that something is a major aspect. It is more difficult to provide reliable real-world citations for it. Please back up your claims about the notability of the fictional game with sources. Otto4711 12:35, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It's notability within the universe is provided by the show itself; it has been used several times as both a key and peripheral plot device (Specific episodes are The Waterbending Scroll, The Desert, and Sokka's Master). Notable to the real world...well, that's something else; like I said, it's really not notable at all outside of Avatar (Some people have actually tried to build three-dimensional chess based on Star Trek, and hologrphic chess based on Star Wars, but there's no third party real world Pai Sho). Hence why it should be merged into another article instead of being deleted; its info is relevent to the universe as a whole, and could be presented as part of a larger, source article that perhaps dealt with inspirations/references/developments in and about the Avatar universe. JBK405 04:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.