Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/OverLooked ReMiX

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete due to lack of independent sources and unproven notability. Kusma (討論) 12:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OverLooked ReMiX

Non-notable website with an Alexa rank of 1,176,984. This was previously prodded under a different article title and the prod removed, but the editors have been messing around with multiple versions of the articles at OL Remix, Overlooked remix, OverLooked Remix and Overlooked ReMiX, changing them back and forth between duplicate articles and redirects, and figuring out the various edit histories is turning my brain into a Rubik's cube. Anyway, nominated for procedural AfD for the same reasons in the prod (see edit history for Overlooked ReMiX). ~Matticus TC 20:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Right... that editor was me. And I apologize for giving you a headache, as I noticed that I misspelled the proper name for the website,and moved the article thussly. I would think in this case the impact of the website should not be judged based upon webiste hits, but in terms of the cultural impact on the Video Game Remix community. If you were to ask any of the people at OLR, or OverClocked Remix for that matter, they'd definitely say that OLR is notable.
Is there any way through overhauling the content of the page that it can be saved. I've read through the various policies, but they turn MY head into a Rubik's cube. What exactly can be done to save it

-- t3h real adam d. —Preceding unsigned comment added by T3hrealadamd (talk • contribs)

Okay, welcome to the discussion, and it's good to see you being sensible about this (website and other internet-phenomenon-related AfDs can tend to degenerate into sockpuppetry and "zOMG but itz teh best siet evar, fewels!"). Wikipedia has established guidelines for what constitutes a notable website at WP:WEB. To sum it up briefly, for a website to be notable enough for an article it either has to have been written about in multiple non-trivial publications (i.e. not blogs or forums or such), or to have won a major independent web award, or they are a site that distributes their content through another well-known site independent of the creators. As it stands, OverLooked ReMiX does not appear to meet any of these criteria. The AfD process takes a week, so if in that time you can provide references that prove otherwise, then this strengthens the case for keeping the article. ~Matticus TC 20:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom and WP:OR (although as usual I will change my opinion if notability can be established) Yomangani 21:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The only just cause for this entry to be deleted is if there is a general "Video Game Remix/Community" entry which gives a section to each of the prominent websites that keep this community alive. OLRemix.org's page deserves to remain, as it is an important part of a real growing and thriving internet subculture. --Lord Ramco 21:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this counts as a non-trivial source exactly but ThaSauce, a news website covering the video game remix community, has had several articles submitted, approved, and featured on the subject of OverLooked ReMix, a list of which is here. --Phanlax 23:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

OverLooked ReMiX is a parody of the main site for video game remixing, OverClocked ReMix. That site is so popular that it has even spread to OLRemix.org and VGMix.com, all of which have different standards in remixing and whatnot. If OC ReMix is considered just and follows the WP:OR, then why doesn't OL ReMiX? A parody of a popular site is deserving of a spotlight, too. DJ15Nario 20:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

While YES, many people see OverLooked Remix as a parody of OverClocked Remix, I'm bothered by this. Instead of being closely connected to the happenings of OCR, we ourselves have grown and flourished into a legitimate online community. We ARE NOT OCR, nor should we EVER BE OCR. Our remixes are of a different brand. Simply because they may not be made with the most expensive musical equipment, just because they aren't all hardcore techno/trance, just because our remixes are meant to be funny sometimes as compared to OCR's serious tone, we ARE STILL a valid community with many members. OverLooked Remix remixers may not be professionals, but we do care about what we do and we do work to better ourselves. The community of OverLooked Remix is our outlet. As stated before we are tracked on thasauce and many of the people from OverClocked Remix enjoy coming to our site to see what we have to offer. By having this wiki, it will help inform others of the site and possibly help inspire young budding remixers (who are valid musicians, just of a different type than popularly thought) to work on their dreams, and not be discouraged by the high 'standards' that OverClocked Remix has. The OverLooked community has been talking about finally getting a wiki for a long time, as we respect this site and the content it contains, and if we were to have this deleted it would be a major blow to our site's morale. This wiki IS VERY important for the community, as many of our members are really looking forward to both reading and contributing to the article. We would like to simply have the respect that the other 'big' remix site has. Please consider keeping the OverLooked Remix wikipedia article. --GregZor 03:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe that olremix.org is a site worth documenting because, as the others before me have said, it is a thriving independant community. It doesn't get hitcounts quite as high as the other sites for the justifiable reason that it has been around for a fraction of the time (one and a half years versus six and a half for ocremix.org). However, for such a relatively new site it does impressively well, and gains popularity all the time. It is not premature to give olremix a spot on Wikipedia because it already posesses sufficient content and activity to warrant a reference for any and all curious about it. In addition, i think that olremix is also a stand-in for a whole genre of music which has been (forgive the pun) overlooked by other videogame remixing sites such as vgmix and ocremix. This genre is Home Music; independant, low-production amateur composition, rather than the professionalized mainstream rock/techno which is the exclusive domain of ocremix.org and its affiliates. If olremix.org is not represented, this whole subculture of the "gamer/musician hybrid" will be unrepresented. --The p00t 04:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete - per above reasons. Wickethewok 14:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. --Charlesknight 16:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Are any of you even READING what we're saying or are you just saying to delete this so you don't have to deal with it? --71.129.176.55 20:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete. How about reading WP:WEB and showing us where this site meets those qualifications? It is up to you to show that it notable as defined by WP:WEB; simply being a big online community and saying it represents a certain niche isn't enough. --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 00:58, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

What about WP:IAR? Think about it, by doing this you're prohibiting information on what will grow into a thriving internet community, thus (slightly I admit) lowering Wikipedia's quality. --Phanlax 02:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

But by the same token, what about Wikipedia is not a crystal ball? It's all very well saying it "will grow into a thriving internet community", that doesn't assert the notability now, which is what actually matters. ~Matticus TC 15:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Web specific-content[3] is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: 3. The content is distributed via a site which is both well known and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an online broadcaster. -- Here it is right here. OverLooked Remix's content has been distributed via the website www.thasauce.net. This site is independant of OLR's creator. ThaSauce is also very well known among the remix community for the fine reporting it does on such remix sites such as OverClocked Remix, VGMix, AnimeRemix, and The Video Game Music Archive. Once again, let me stress that it IS independant of our admin/creator. Our content has also been distributed through several radio shows unaffiliated with OverLooked Remix such as "VGFrequency" AND "The Jump Button (WHFR FM)". I believe that our exposure on these mediums helps identify OverLooked Remix as a valid community AND helps the site be considered "Web-Specific Content".--GregZor 03:03, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The key phrase here is a site which is [...] well known.... ThaSauce.net's Alexa ranking is below 4 million, indicating it is anything but well-known. ~Matticus TC 15:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This all seems really stupid you know, you guys should be worrying more about the truth and neutrality of articles than whether or not one is "notable" enough. You're prohibiting information to be put on a website that is about giving information, when you should be helping correct information where it is not correct.--Phanlax 04:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I personally fail to see how an Alexa rating alone can substantiate a site as notable or not, especially since eon8 was receiving enough hits to cause intermittent server functioning, and its noteworthiness was debated. If a site as trivial as ilovebees.com gets its own, somewhat extensive page, and it too had a niche community involved with it, I don't see any reason why OLR shouldn't have its own article. True, the Halo series attracts quite a crowd, but then again, so does music. The media attention criterion is covered, though barely so, by www.thasauce.net, and whereas it's not CNN, it's popular among remix enthusiasts. We can thus conclude that OLR is, in fact, noteworthy within the remix community, which should be enough to satisfy your concerns. Keep. ~Tarrasque

  • Keep. I agree with Tarrasque. Just because the OLR page isn't popular doesn't mean that it deserves to be deleted. DJ15Nario 02:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep as per Tarrasque. Oh, and everyone using the Alexa arguement, look here. This clearly states that the Alexa test itself is biased and requires software installation and MSIE for it to work and, not only that, it can easily be viewhacked. I don't know about you all, but I'm using Firefox and haven't even heard of Alexa except in my spyware logs while scanning with Ad-Aware. Hell, even simply Googling Alexa will turn up results on how their toolbar can be considered spyware and sites offering to "boost your Alexa ranking for free". Keep this, evidence against it is shaky at best, and based off of a dodgy dealer that uses spyware at the worst.Rainbringer 01:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I would like to Media:keep this, but of course it's up to the Admins to decide. I just want to say that even those elitists in OCR sometimes give a tribute to OLR. it happened first with the Bound Together project by Joe Cam (which purpose was right actually to show how different websites can collaborate), and now with the Tim Follin project by Liontamer (who ISN'T some noob, but an important man on OCR, who also ran the radio show VGDJ and featured OL Remixes in VGDJ #69). link is here but I don't know Wikipedia tags so do it by yourself: [[1]] then again, I'm new to all this wikipedia policy thing, I just wanted to say my 0.02$ kthxbye (hey, how do I sign this?) -Nineko

Four Tildes. Rainbringer 01:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep OL ReMix is absolutely worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. It is, in fact, (despite, perhaps, its best efforts) one of the premier game music remix sites on the 'net. This AfD is Wikisnobbery at its worst. Alwarren@ucsd.edu 17:45, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I vote keep, even though I am not fully aware of Wikipedia policy and even though the site is very, very, very weird, I think it's become big enough that it can't be ignored by a casual Video-game Remix seeking surfer. Plus, if Vgmix and OCR deserve their own pages I think this would at least be relevant enough to have a mention. Though, I think the article's language is in serious need of an over-haul, it definitely sounds like it was written by Adam D. TheHande 21:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Well all I can say at this point is someone needs to actually go to the site and see for themselves just how developed the site is and how much it has to offer. I know you guys don't want just any website to have its own article, but look at how much we offer and how much the article has grown since it was put up for AfD. Phanlax 02:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.