Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Odle Middle School (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep per improvements. UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 19:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Odle_Middle_School

Odle_Middle_School (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Notability not established, authors have had 5 months to do so. Kraftlos (talk) 07:16, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Keep Changing my vote. Looks like you've got some secondary sources on the page and there isn't anything NPOV or unsourced. Looks good! --Kraftlos (talk) 22:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

• Delete I have put this back up for deletion. No one has provided a source about this middle school outside of the school district's web site. It has not been explained in terms of the Wikipedia Notability Guidelines for institutions why this school is notable. --Kraftlos (talk) 06:58, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Delete and Redirect to Bellevue School District. The information here which may be argued as notable is so little that it should be included on the distric page. In addition, there are zero outside sources. This problem has gone on long enough and it is time to delete if no one will be accountable. --DerRichter (talk) 07:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

• Change to keep because of recent improvements. In my personal opinion, middle schools are not notable, and a blue ribbon doesn't establish notability, but obviously consensus has priority over what I think. In addition, it is a much better page now with an info box. One suggestion, if I may, would be to take the demographics section out of the lead and put it in its own section. --DerRichter (talk) 05:29, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• That's a sound idea that I have implemented. TerriersFan (talk) 17:20, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 13:07, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. cab (talk) 13:19, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep per wikipedia:Schools/Arguments#Keep and the afd is flawed... WP:NOTCLEANUP --Jerm (^Talk/ _Contrib) 13:27, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - Blue Ribbon school status is asserted. National Chess championship also asserted. I have researched and added cites for both of those claims which establish notability. --Daddy.twins (talk) 14:39, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - Blue Ribbon school, which places within the top 4.5% of US schools and has plenty of additional notability. 18:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TerriersFan (talk • contribs)
• Keep This article makes explicit claims of notability in terms of its recognition by the Blue Ribbon Schools Program and other chess-related achievements, all supported by reliable and verifiable sources to satisfy the Wikipedia:Notability standard. Alansohn (talk) 18:58, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
• Keep — as per Alansohn's comments above. Kudos to Daddy.Twins and TerriersFan (and others) on good sources to prove this school's notability. Galaxy250 (talk) 20:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: Here is the criterion under existing guidelines.

A company, corporation, organization, team, religion, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. Once notability is established, primary sources may be used to add content. Ultimately, and most importantly, all content must be attributable.

• Right now we have a blue-ribbon award, which doesn't seem to be all that significant considering there are fifty each year and the school got the award once (there are other schools in the state that have received several of these awards). Also "the afd is flawed..." is not really an argument for keeping the article but a complaint about the existing guidelines. I still haven't seen any significant secondary sources. (You might check the king county/eastside journal archives). The department of education isn't really an independent source. --Kraftlos (talk) 21:07, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

• Keep - This article does have correct material and, after the recent improvments, should be allowed on an encyclopedia. ⊕Assasin Joe ^talk 22:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

The main issue for this article is that the article information that cannot possibly be attributed to reliable sources. In addition to the school website, there is a Bellvue School District website containing the school, and School staff websites.This article is undoubtably reliable. ⊕Assasin Joe ^talk 23:03, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Comment:Actually, you cannot have content on a page if it is not verifiable as per Wikipedia:Verifiability which is policy, not just a guideline. The school's web site is an acceptable primary source, but if there is no source, then it has no business being on wikipedia. Additionally, people familiar with the school cannot write from their own knowledge without citations because of the Wikipedia:No original research policy. That is what makes an encyclopedia different from just another web site. --Kraftlos (talk) 23:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Addendum: Well, of course you can't cite everything but it is expected that anything beyond basic information (like where the school is) should be cited. --Kraftlos (talk) 22:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.