Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Notable table tennis players

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was closed as keep and withdrawn per result at CfD. Non-admin closure. Kwsn(Ni!) 18:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notable table tennis players

Notable table tennis players (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Prod removed with comment:

There are many red links meaning no page exists for players. Many player names are unlinked. I think all of them dont have seperate page, so category wont work i think. Also there are very few pages related to TT players in wikipedia including this and List of World Table Tennis Champions. So removed prod.

—User:Lara bran

However, as I stated in the prod, a category would be able to do just as well here. Also, if the page is deleted, please do not merge back into the main article, they split it off from there because of size, and I don't blame them. Kwsn(Ni!) 16:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep I agree with the deprodder. A category cannot include people who don't have articles. As long as it can be shown that the redlinked/unlinked entries are, in fact, notable, a list is appropriate. It should probably be moved to "List of notable table tennis players," though.-Chunky Rice 17:55, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Categorize and delete I was going to say weak keep, because many of the names do seem to qualify as "notable" based on their descriptions, although the page could definitely be organized (and defined) much better. But List of World Table Tennis Champions does exist already, and it seems like the subject would be better addressed by charts of the winners by year for each of these events, instead of just listing a bunch of people who have repeatedly won one or more of the events. This list is just too messy for me to support keeping it. Propaniac 18:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete This is precisely what categories are for. And anyway, if there aren't articles on many of these players, how can we know if they're notable? I daresay it would be rather pointless to establish notability for a lot of players on a page like this without giving them their own articles — not to mention the fact that it would result in a really long page. Nyttend 18:12, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't know. I think that anybody who wins an Olympic medal is notable in that sport. But that's not enough information to build an article out of. I really see no reason why there should be a burden to create articles to prove notability. -Chunky Rice 18:37, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Comment - Notable is not subjective, its Hall of fame list maintained by ITTF. Should we move? Again there are Grand Slam winners(see article), Hall of fame, World champions etc. But this article includes all those and generalised. I vote keep. Lara bran 04:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, as per the reply about a category can't show red links. Lugnuts 18:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete Comment "Notable" is subjective without hard criteria. Ideally, if they're notable, they should have articles on them. We prove notability to keep articles, not create articles to prove notability; there's really no point in trying to show notability for someone who doesn't have an article, unless you're just about to create one. The idea that getting an Olympic medal is, in and of itself, not enough info for an article, doesn't fly, because there's nothing wrong with stubs. If there was a table tennis WikiProject, I would prefer moving it there. Morgan Wick 01:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
    • After doing a little bit of snooping, I propose moving to List of ITTF Hall of Fame members, which I suspect better favors a list. Morgan Wick 17:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, there are not just red links, many player names are not internal linked by [[ ]]. That means red link players + not not linked player makes for many players who dont have articles. Category wont work as more than half players dont have page. This list is according hall of fame of ITTF, given pdf ref there. If wikipedia doesnt have page on these players that does not mean they are not notable, very obviously, as wikipedia takes long time. We should go by players achivements. Also there are very few pages in wikipedia about TT players, this will help create pages in player's names. Another article List of World Table Tennis Champions is insufficient list because there are 3 seperate tournaments namely Olympic Games gold medal, world championship title, and World Cup of Table Tennis gold medal. Lara bran 04:09, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I think the deletors' points are that if Wikipedia does not have pages on these players, and they are notable, what's stopping you from creating articles on them? Even if they're doomed to be only stubs? There's nothing wrong with stubs. To which you'll probably say "this will help create pages in player's names." So move it to userspace or a WikiProject. Morgan Wick 07:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and recommend a speedy close. This is a redundant AFD because the category is up for deletion currently (since before this AFD), and is leaning towards listify. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 July 3#Category:Notable table tennis players - Neier 09:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 13:36, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.