Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Norayr Mnatsakanyan

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep, withdrawn by nominator. Babajobu 01:33, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norayr Mnatsakanyan

Seems to be a NN Armenian Folk Artist. Poorly written (although that's not a reason for it to be deleted). Quoted search of "Norayr Mnatsakanyan" brings up one result, on the artist's album, but not the artist himself. Editor has edited two articles: This one, and Music of Armenia, to promote this artist. New user, however. Kareeser|Talk! 16:21, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

  • Difficult one, but an Armenian folk singer who died in the 1980s seems to be just the kind of thing where Google can not be expected to be of much help (transcription issues have to be taken into account as well). We really need somebody with a knowledge of Armenian and access to good printed sources to check this one. I wish we had a way of moving this type of article to a holding area for future checking. Is there an Armenian wikiproject that could keep this as a subpage? If there is, move it there. u p p l a n d 21:18, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I'll say keep, as it seems that the author will continue to work on the article. u p p l a n d 09:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment — I observed the article creation at Special:Newpages, but the sheer amount of information made me keep it on my watchlist. I knew that this wasn't a good article to {{prod}}, as it is a potentially controversial issue... =) Kareeser|Talk! 22:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy Keep. Just enough information out there to indicate this is a Wikipedia-notable performer [1], though not enough to immediately verify the article. Monicasdude 22:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

The article is objectively written and contains specificity to the Armenian arts. For inquiries regarding this artist, refer to the Armenian State Television website. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.229.118.165 (talk • contribs) .
The validity of this article can be verified by inquiries from the Public Radio and Television of the Republic of Armenia. Television programs and video footage exists to support the information reflected in the article. The deletion of the article without verifying the validity of its content is a serious violation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.229.118.165 (talk • contribs) .

  • Comment — The fact that the article is listed on the AFD is not a "Serious violation", as you have put it. It simply brings the article to light that it was poorly sourced. The concensus so far seems to be that this is a noteworthy article. However, it was poorly written, which was why it was listed in the first place. In the original (and current) versions, where are the links to the "Public Radio and Television of the Republic of Armenia"? As you are the creating editor, it should be your duty to prove to the community that the subject is notable, and not for the people to find out for themselves. Kareeser|Talk! 06:34, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I am the author of the article, and an Armenian by ethnicity. I have observed many articles on Armenia and Armenians on the pages of Wikipedia, many of which contain distortions of historical facts, are not only poorly written but also create fictions on a given subject. The information contained in this article is factual and verifiable. Moreover, all this information exists in the documentary archives of the Armenian Public Radio and Television. However, because the artist lived before the worldwide web became available in Armenia, these sources were not digitized. All that exists on the internet for this artist are his own recordings remastered by the official permission of the Public Radio and Television of Armenia to make these works massively available. There have also been different opinions on the artist's activity throughout the worldwide web. However, the main sources, which I used to write the article, are the numerous articles about Norayr Mnatsakanyan in different Armenian language periodicals of Soviet Armenia. Almost all of these are not in circulation any longer and consequently have no appropriate websites. I also used the programs and the video footage by the Public Television of Armenia about the artist, which is not available online either. As for the article being poorly written, perhaps, it does not reflect the conventions set up by Wikipedia. At the same time, however, it adequately and insightfully presents the artist to the Wikipedia reader in its theamtic specificity. Not only your consensus but also the consensus of the entire Armenian nation will prove to anyone the notability of this artist. I will welcome any suggestions and/or help to properly edit the article and appropriate it to your norms.
    • All you really need to do is to list all the published sources (articles in periodicals etc.) you have used under a header called "References" in a way which makes it possible for anyone to locate the publications. That will make it easy for anyone to verify the content. (Or at least for anyone reading Armenian - you may consider giving references to some Russian language sources, if any are available, as Russian is more widely read.) The systemic bias in Wikipedia often makes it difficult for the average reader to understand the significance of some topics, as the necessary cultural context (other articles on related topics) is missing. This leads to this type of discussion, but as long as a good case can be made for the notability of a specific topic, it will survive. Don't let this discussion scare you away, and please continue to contribute to the coverage of Armenian culture on Wikipedia. u p p l a n d 09:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I will undertake all the necessary changes for the article. I have technical issues with the refernce section. As you may have seen, I have added the links for both the Armenian Public Radio and Television. However, the literary, and general-circulation periodicals, which wrote about the artist are no longer in circulation. Naturally, the latter have no websites. I can simply provide a bibliography page for the article. The interested readers may refer to the websites in the External Links section, which leads to the artist's albums and several online articles and fora where he has been mentioned.

Perhaps you can find online publications of the journals. I know universities have scanned or transcripted journals online or in storage. Perhaps you can check for the "hard" copies there. At any rate, you've prove your point, and I now change my vote to Keep. Kareeser|Talk! 16:21, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Kareeser, thank you for your decision to withdraw your vote for this article's deletion. The hard copies are all available and I can provide an official bibliography for them and have them translated into English to prove my point further and justify the expectations of the Wikipedia community. Again, many thanks!


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.