Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Non-Muslim (term)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. This was a tricky one. The page was moved durign the AfD debate, which is usually a bad Idea. I take the Afd as applying to both the moved page and the resulting redirect. I count 7 votes for delettion, and 2 more for either a redirect to Kafir or deletion. I count 2 straight keeps, and two who suggested that the DAB be kept but the redir resultign from the move be deleted. I count 1 who wanted supported only a redir to kafir. i count 1 who wanted a merge to Kafir, and one for a merge to Islamic studies. So out of 16 who expressd opnions, only 4 were for keeping more or less as is, and only 6 for keeping in some form, while 9 were for deletion as a first or second choice, and a tenth for the near-oblivian of a simple redirect. Delete is clearl;y the preferd option, although the consensus is not as large as i would normally like. But IMO this is not a reasonable subject for a DAB page (which is what this has become) and I think this is better deleted than left as is. If anyone thinks this admitted judgement call was in error, please raise the subject at WP:DRV. DES ^(talk) 00:00, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non-Muslim (term)

Delete. No way is this worthy of a wikipedia article. Imagine if we had an article for opposite of every other article... Mushin^talk 01:23, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as self-explanatory dicdef. The article also implies that only Muslims would use the term "non-Muslim" to refer to people who are not Muslims, which is obviously inaccurate. --Metropolitan90 02:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC) ... per Geogre below. --Metropolitan90 16:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Per nom. Yawn. I'm No Parking and I approved this message 02:38, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, its now a disambig page. --Striver 03:05, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, the distinction between different "types" of non-Muslims can be misunderstood, as a variety of words are used in the Qu'ran, and it is important to know who is being discussed in the context of Islamic law. Smmurphy^(Talk) 04:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

That may be the case, but it only supports the existence of said articles, not this Non-Muslim page. Mushin^talk 05:05, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Redirect to Kafir, hope for future page as described by Gren. Smmurphy^(Talk) 08:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Just to make this more complex... kafir to some denotes all non-Muslims... but, it has a broader scope of meaning as well... so it doesn't always denote all non-Muslims. The people of the book are believers to some... it gets more complex. gren グレン 08:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• "Kafir" simply means "non-believer" or "denier" in Arabic. When a Muslim uses it, it means non-Muslim. What's so complicated? Aucaman 15:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• It's more complicated because that's oversimplistic. A kafir is not just a non-Muslim because it has overtones of willful rejection. It's unthankfulness. Ethico Religious Concepts in the Qur'an by Toshihiko Izutsu has a few good sections on it. gren グレン 16:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. If anything a page along the lines of Muslim/non-Muslim relations could be created and could be encyclopedic. This couldn't be. gren グレン 07:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge to Islamic studies. Ben Aveling 10:37, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Merge? How can a two-line article like this be merged into another article?
    • By adding two lines to it somewhere. Muslim studies references the page, so AFAICBB it can describe the term as well. Regards, Ben Aveling 01:46, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Aucaman 15:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. The dab looks fine, but the original page that had the modifier "term" needs to be deleted if it's history is empty. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep the dab, which is useful; the redirect probably wants to go, but there's WP:RfD for that if it's bothering anyone. — Haeleth Talk 15:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as per above. LordViD 15:45, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Kafir or Delete. There's no way to merge it anywhere and we can't just keep it like this. There is nothing ambiguous about the term "Non-Muslim" for it to have a disambiguation page. Non-Muslim simply means a person who is not Muslim. --Aucaman 15:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Kafir or Delete. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:51, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: Speaking of systemic bias, this dab implies not "Non-Muslim (term)," which is a mouthful that no one will ever type, but "Various types of non-Muslims mentioned by Muslims and/or how Muslims consider them." What do B'hai call the various non-Muslims? What do Christians call them? What do Buddhists call them? No one likes deleting, but we're bending over backward until we're looking up our own pitutis to make this valid. Geogre 17:06, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, per gren. Stifle 00:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete not needed. And a redirect to Kafir isn't exactly accurate. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 19:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as pointless. Zora 19:58, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect with kafir. --JuanMuslim ^1m 03:05, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.