Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nine Famous Irishmen

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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was deleted as copyvio (listed as copyvio since June 5) --cesarb 20:34, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nine Famous Irishmen

Nothing against the Irish - but this ain't an article, it's an anecdote (probably circular e-mail cruft). The title is hopeless - the facts suspect (Australia didn't have a PM in 1874). Some stuff here may be suitable for merging elsewhere- but the article should be deleted. --Doc (?) 14:29, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • At least one of the references (Thomas Francis Meagher) is consistent with the reported history in his individual article. Keep (and clean up) for now. Kelly Martin 14:56, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep an article on the incident, but move to a better title. Otherwise it seems to invite articles on "X Famous Foomen". -- BD2412 talk 19:01, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)
  • There are probably places where the verifiable content can be merged, though that is likely to be in more than one place. From a cursory examination of external sources, these do not all appear to be a part of a single incident, at the article implies. Needs some research to determine if the grouping is appropriate, and should moved to a better title if a clearer relationship is discerned. --Tabor 19:13, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • OK, researched further. Appears to mostly be copyvio of [1]. Whoever copied it here left out this part:
The story of the Irish rebels is popular in Ireland and Australia. Elements of the story are factual and elements of the story are myth.
Despite not being the whole truth, the creation of the mythical aspects is a fact in itself, and so reflects the wants and spiritual aspirations of vanquished generations.''
--Tabor 19:27, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep but perhaps move to simply the "Nine Irishmen". The anecdote, whether true or not, seems to have a real life of its own. There is a pub and restaurant Nine Fine Irishmen in the New York New York casino in Las Vegas. Also, see "Notes Over the Air Waves", The Lowell Sun (March 8, 1938), p. 15, col 3, which reported that
Ripley Will Remember St. Patrick...
Bob Ripley, presents an all-Irish program, appropriate to the approach of St. Patrick's day on his "Believe It Or Not" program over the NBC-Red network on Saturday, March 12, at 8 p.m., E. S. T.
The guest star will be Rev. Thomas J. Wheelright, half-brother of the Irish patriot Eamon de Valera, who will tell an hitherto unrevealed story about the latter.
The Ripley players will dramatize the story of nine Irishmen sentence to death for treason in the middle of the nineteenth century. Pardoned by Queen Victoria, they were exiled to Australia. The amazing destiny of each one will be revealed during the dramatization.
The word "famous" does not appear to be standard in the story. However, the number "nine" does seem central to identifying this particular story.
- DS1953 19:42, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: If kept, clarify its notability as a popular story, rather than presenting it as historical fact. --Tabor 20:37, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • No vote, since copyvios are an entirely different process and this article should be dealt with through that process. RickK 21:49, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment. Appears to be copyvio. I note that the text from which the article was copied referred to an Attorney-General of Australia being occupied by Morris Lyne and Michael Ireland being Attorney-General and Sir Charles Duffy as Prime Minister of Australia. The Commonwealth of Australia was not formed until 1901. Charles Duffy was Premier of Victoria in 1871 not 1874. However, he was jailed as part of the Young Ireland movement but freed after his fifth trial. He served a term in the House of Commons from 1852 to 1855 but became disillusioned and migrated to Victoria in 1855 where he was elected to Parliament in 1856. On the other hand, the Australian Dictionary of Biography does not have entries for either Morris Lyne and Michael Ireland. If they had achieved any notability in colonial Australia such as being Attorney-General of Victoria, the Australian Dictionary of Biography would have an entry for them. You could possibly justify an entry as a prominent hoax but it should clearly note that it is a hoax not factual. Capitalistroadster 01:20, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and expand with more context ··gracefool |☺ 08:14, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.