Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New Zealand dream

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Daniel 04:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Zealand dream

New Zealand dream (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Original research. While many of the figures in the article are backed up with refs, the main point of the article - that New Zealanders aspire to own a house, a car, and maybe a boat - isn't. The first external link, to an article on the "Half gallon quarter acre pavlova paradise", isn't sufficient as this is a humorous look at New Zealand society. It's possible that the article could be saved with more refs and a bit of attention. Otherwise delete. gadfium 18:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The article has improved since I nominated it for deletion, but it still doesn't quite cut it. Changing my vote to weak delete.-gadfium 07:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


Please take time to read the wiki-pages Australian Dream and quarter acre and The Half Gallon Quarter Acre Pavlova Paradise which are written by different authors as these also allude to the New Zealand dream. The humorous book is actually listed by the New Zealand government site and the phrase "quarter acre pavlova paradise" is included the New Zealand dictionary because it has become common usage within Kiwi language. New Zealand and Australia have shared cultural values. There are numerous Australian books and films that allude to their culture. Are you also claiming that Australian dream is also false?Badenoch 18:52, 9 November 2007 (UTC).Also see the websites [1]. New Zealand also has a music group called quarter acre lifestyle [2]. There are reports on the housing market that allude to it -. Real estate agents discuss it [3] Badenoch 19:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)Keep


  • Delete per WP:NOR. Stifle (talk) 19:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete this fascinating Original Research, which I hope finds a home somewhere on the web.. Springnuts 20:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak Delete Author writes well, but this is almost all original research. A weak delete, because I'm sure that there are authors or newspaper columnists who may written about the "New Zealand Dream" in the way that folks in the U.S. used to wax philosophically about "The American Dream". I don't know that Australian dream would have gone far, but for the 1987 film and other treatments of the concept. At the moment, it's someone's attempt to tell us what four million people "really want". This is not much more encylopedic than listening to a "bloke" in an Auckland bar asking, "Ya wanna know what I think the New Zealand dream is? I'll tell ya." Mandsford 01:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep The author has added some reference, the article just needs a couple more. Moreover, just like there is an American Dream, an Australian Dream, I am quite sure that there is an NZ dream worthy of mention in WP - also the prose is written well. Signaturebrendel 07:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep. I agree most of the article is original research, but I believe the core concept could be given a decent treatment here. I've added one citation to a book on the subject. I think there's probably enough cited here for it to be worth keeping rather than starting from starting from scratch, although it needs a lot of tidying up. I certainly understand if others disagree. -- Avenue 21:32, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Still not convinced - Gael Ferguson’s book uses the phrase "New Zealand dream" in the title (as a neologism) but doesn't convince that he is dealing with a genuine concept of encyclopaedic value. All other refs I have found are to NZ dream weddings; NZ dream trout fishing etc. Springnuts 13:39, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Author has put good effort into the page. It's probably something New Zealanders do think about, and since it's a good page, I say keep. lk 17:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak Keep - provided the lead has a substantial rewrite to stress that the dream is a sociological concept (The Australian Dream article also needs this clarification). You can write about the concept factually, but not the intangible dream itself. Speaking personally, I seem to have acquired elements of the dream, but its not what I ever aspired to - I'm more "stuck" with them. dramatic 01:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep It's a marginal article but shows enough promise. Will defer to NZ residents as to vox-pop but it seems a bit of interest from socio-economic or demographic observers in NZ could lift this out of the OR it's currently languishing in. The pictures - effectively: "here's a house", "here's a car", are pretty pointless and detract from the article though. Suggest author trawls social commentary papers at the local library or otherwise finds further refs to put it beyond doubt. As a post-script maybe it would be better as a section merge to the Quarter Acre article Dick G 06:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.