Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/New Jersey Ironmen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep All of the delete !votes were based on WP:CRYSTAL and/or a lack of sources. Given the team has been formally announced, both problems have been resolved. As a result, and given that the AFD has been open for ten days now, I'm going to assume that there would be no controversy in my closing this. Hope you don't mind. Non-admin closure. Resolute 02:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Jersey Ironmen

New Jersey Ironmen (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Name and logo do not appear to actually have been announced, looking at MISL web site. Only source is a blog. This appears to technically be speculation. Just because it probably will be announced any minute now doesn't mean we shouldn't delete it until it actually is. Morgan Wick 02:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy delete Per WP:CRYSTAL. Thewinchester ^(talk) 03:22, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, but not per WP:CRYSTAL - simply per CSD A7 (db-club). Crystalballery, sure, but they're otherwise not notable and the only information is in Blogspot - a blog, by its own name! So tagged for speedy. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 03:24, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm not accepting any NN arguments because that opens a can of worms for potentially deleting all MISL teams, not to mention teams for other minor leagues. WP:CRYSTAL is not a speedy criterion. Removing speedy tag. Morgan Wick 03:31, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Point taken. We'll let it set latent for now then. --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 05:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy delete for now until the team is officially announced. I'm a huge fan and follower of the league and seeing the team name was news to me. Wildthing61476 14:44, 12 June 2007 (UTC)Speedy Keep per below comment by Michael Greiner. Wildthing61476 14:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
• This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of football (soccer) related deletions. ChrisTheDude 07:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Keep or Move The team is announced by the league but the name wasn't. The team's current website ([1]) lists the Ironmen as a possibility for the name. While it isn't a great source, a design company, the F.A.I Design Group also has the info (linked in the blog post, [2]) The team does exist so the article should not be deleted, perhaps moved to a holding page like MISL Newark, but not deleted. Michael Greiner 20:19, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Was this design group designing logos for all the possible team name/logos perhaps, and this was the first completed? Wildthing61476 20:23, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea, but the name possibilities were announced in January/February. Michael Greiner 02:34, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

STRONG KEEP Team name was been announced in today's Newark Star-Ledger as the New Jersey Ironmen. [3] Official announcement is tomorrow at Newark city hall. WP:Crystal is not a valid argument now. Michael Greiner 14:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 10:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
• Strong KeepWeak Keep or Move There is absolutely no WP:CRYSTAL issue that the MISL has granted a Newark franchise. The franchise website shows that it does exists, but lists "Ironmen" merely as one of several possible choices for a name. The WP:CRYSTAL issue is that neither name nor logo have been finalized. Rename the article and remove references to "Ironmen" until a name is chosen. Alansohn 16:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC) Now that the name has been finalized as Ironmen and the arena deal has been finalized, any WP:CRYSTAL issues are no longer relevant. Alansohn 18:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Be that as it may, why keep? I mean, I'm in agreement here - if the team is announced and unnamed, why do we have a proposed name, and why even think of keeping it? --Dennis The Tiger (Rawr and stuff) 01:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
• Comment If we were to create an MISL Newark article we should also create an MISL Monterrey article. Morgan Wick 20:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me. Currently the new Monterrey team has a section at the Monterrey La Raza as the speculation of that name being used. This would be a reincarnation of the team, which originally existed in the old WISL. Michael Greiner 20:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

• Merge I think we should mere this info onto the MISL page. Bernstein2291 01:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
• Keep but move it somewhere so editors can still work on the topic, if needed be. WP:CRYSTAL on name, but not the franchise itself. - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 14:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
• NewsFlash I have two sources from the Newark Star-Ledger saying the team name will be the Ironmen. Indoor soccer team headed to Newark Indoor soccer team set to play in Prudential Center. Read them and you will see the name has been verified. So, my vote would be Keep as well. Tom Danson 18:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Also noted in my last comment seen above. --Michael Greiner 18:15, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

• Comment Could somebody close this debate please? The team was officially announced by the MISL today. Official Team Website. (Plus it features the logo). The consensus says Keep, plus there is a source now, so it would be utterly illogical to delete this. Tom Danson 16:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.