Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Naftali Tzvi Weisz

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete under the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy, with all of the requirements for restoration that a deletion under that policy implies. This article is not a biography. It is not even a pretense of a biography. It is a news article, plain and simple, reporting arrests and charges. It is sourced to 8 news articles, spanning just 2 and a bit days, that cover a single event. In Wikinews terminology, it is a straight news summary, or synthesis, article, synthesising a single news article from 8 news sources.

Our policy on single events is clear. We cover the event, not the person. We certainly do not misrepresent the arrests of eight people, and the indictments of several organizations, as being a biography of just one of those people. I am unable to find any actual biographical information on this person after doing some research, and no editor below has presented any after being challenged to do so, which leads me to believe that a biography can not be written here. The claim that this person was a publicly documented figure before this news story broke is unsupported by sources. I am unable to merge, to refactor, or to rename the article into an article about the case, as I have done in several past situations like this, because there is no publicly documented case yet. There have been no convictions. There has not even been a trial. There is no publicly documented subject for an encyclopaedia article.

Our policy on what the encyclopaedia is is also clear. Wikipedia is not a news service. Wikinews is thataway, and n:Eight men and several Spinka charities charged with tax fraud in Los Angeles awaits the attention of the lost journalists wandering the encyclopedia in search of a newspaper in which they can write a news story about a single event. Uncle G (talk) 13:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naftali Tzvi Weisz

Naftali Tzvi Weisz (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Has nothing to do with his biography or person, just a single story. Looks more like once agenda to put this story on WP. He is not notable enough to have an article of his own, but if a normal article about him is created I don't think I would object. Shmaltz (talk) 04:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:Biographies_of_living_persons#Remove_unsourced_or_poorly_sourced_contentious_material this should be deleted.--Shmaltz (talk) 05:51, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:CSD#G10--Shmaltz (talk) 05:53, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Per WP:BLP--Shmaltz (talk) 05:53, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

These policies are not relevant here. Are the NYT and the LAT "poor sources"!! BLP is only a problem when there is poor sourcing and that certainly does not apply here. Lobojo (talk) 08:03, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep simply a ludicrous nomination. The man is a Hasidic Rebbe, with thousands of loyal followers. The man has been notable for years as a major Hasidic rabbi and player in the Yiddish speaking world. For such a prominent religious figure to be charged with laundering hundreds of millions of dollars through charities in a major FBI bust makes him notable beyond the Jewish world where he was already very notable. Note the reference include links to full length by-lined articles in both the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times. Lobojo (talk) 04:21, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

As noted in the nomination, the problem is that the article was created just for that one story and still has only that story in there.--Shmaltz (talk) 04:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Right, so feel free to add more BIO information on him. There is nothing wrong with that. It would be very good if we could source more details o nhim and his activities. Lobojo (talk) 04:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

No, just because there is good story that you want on WP doesn't mean that it gets onto WP, even if it's because he is noted. In it's current form it doesn't qualify as an article, and violates WP:BLP. If you can't find sourced details on him, then perhaps he is NOT as noted.--Shmaltz (talk) 04:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Look, this is a major figrue in the Jewish world. This in no way violates BLP. It has the very best of possible sources, including the nations two most prominent newspapers. Lobojo (talk) 04:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, but only for that story, not for who he is, but for what he is. Because he is not notable, but his job is, which makes for an excellent story, but not on WP.--Shmaltz (talk) 04:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

So what are you suggesting - an article on "his job" and another one on "the scandal" but nothing about him? I am lost. Lobojo (talk) 05:57, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• Delete There are WP:BLP concerns here for me and he's only notable for this single story. Maybe if the trial played out something interesting, but right now, no. Mbisanz (talk) 04:25, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

No he is notable as a Hasidic Rebbe. A sort of autocratic ruler of a large group of loyal followers, and as the CEO of a conglomoration of charities, schools and yeshivas under his groups control. just for that alone he is notable. Lobojo (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

No he is NOT notable for any other reason than his arrest.--Shmaltz (talk) 04:32, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

NO no, he is a mojor hasidic rebbe with a large following and tremendous power and financial and reliigous clout, and that alone would make him notable. Lobojo (talk) 04:35, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Source???????--Shmaltz (talk) 04:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

He is in the Hamodia every second week as well as the various Yiddish lnaguage papers. He barely speaks english himself and has no presence on the internet. I think you actually know that he is notable Shmaltz. Lobojo (talk) 06:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep The article provides ample reliable and verifiable sources about the subject, all of which satisfy the Wikipedia:Notability standard. Alansohn (talk) 07:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep very regretfully and with sincere and heartfelt understanding for my good friend User:Shmaltz. While the article is now about this very sad story of Rabbi Weisz's arrest that is being splashed all over the media and that in and of itself cannot be ignored at this time (perhaps in a year or two this story will be deemed insignificant, but unfortunately at the present time it is making big waves in the world media and we cannot adopt the strategy of ostriches here, sticking our heads in the sand.) This rabbi is also notable as the leader of the Spinka Hasidim and could easily have had an article about himself for his notability in the Hasidic world prior to his unfortunate arrest. The article should and could be improved by adding non-controversial information about Rabbi Weisz's accomplishments in leading his community, its educational insitutions, and no doubt the great deeds of goodness and kindness that he has done for most of his life. IZAK (talk) 08:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. IZAK (talk) 08:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. With great regret, and with respect to User:Shmaltz, understanding that an event like this is never a good situation, the article satisfies Wikipedia policies for notability and verification so I see no basis to delete it. As the grand rebbe of a significantly sized Hassidic group he is independently notable in the Jewish world, and for very unfortunate reasons he has become more notable in the outside world as well. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 09:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep, notable as a Hasidic leader, plenty of references and verifiability supplied in the article to that effect. Lankiveil (talk) 13:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC).

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.