Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/NHL players A

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep – Gurch 16:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NHL players A

Includes: NHL players A, NHL players B, NHL players C, NHL players D, NHL players E, NHL players F, NHL players G, NHL players H, NHL players I, NHL players J, NHL players K, NHL players L, NHL players M, NHL players N, NHL players O, NHL players P, NHL players Q, NHL players R, NHL players S, NHL players T, NHL players U, NHL players V, NHL players W, NHL players X, NHL players Y, NHL players Z and List of every NHL player.

The page serves principally to promote a copyrighted website (HockeyDB), which has considerable usage restrictions and advertisements. I'm not bothered by 'listcruft' but all those links bother me. I'll put 'A' in as a test case but I'll mention that B through Z won't be far behind if you agree with me. Richardcavell 01:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC) As pointed out below by Resolute, the reasons for my original nomination are now dealt with. I continue to nominate A and now nominate B through Z, to allow the AfD to run its course. - Richardcavell 02:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

And I now nominate List of every NHL player pro forma for the same purpose - Richardcavell 05:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy, article consists solely of external links. Peyna 01:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I'm going to tag all of these for speedy (A-Z), since they're obviously nothing more than a blatant attempt at Googlebombing or something along those lines and they all qualify under CSD:A3. Peyna 01:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, I did A-G and got tired, so we'll wait and see what action an admin decides to take with those speedies before I go any further. That said, I move to include articles A-Z in this AfD should the speedy be unsuccessful. Peyna 01:57, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Delete. I like zis Guy's suggestion below regarding a project. You'll note that List of Major League Baseball players only has blue links. All of these articles are poorly named and if we do end up keeping them, it should be consolidated to one article List of NHL players and not broken down by the letter their name starts with. Anyway, categories serve these purposes better. Peyna 22:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment Why should a list of ONLY blue links be considered a good thing? WP:Hockey has been more thorough in populating the lists with EVERY player that has played; the lists are designed for easy expansion. BoojiBoy 00:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy deleted - Pschemp speedy deleted NHL players A through NHL players Z, and added the comment that it was probably set up as a google linkfarm. Will an admin please close this AfD? - Richardcavell 05:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)Speedy deletion was successfully contested. - Richardcavell 02:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Either delete as a bare list of links with no context, or move to Project space as a "to-do" list for a Wikiproject or add some encyclopaedic information (and no I do not mean external links) and make of it something which does not meet Speedy A3. As-is, it's a clear delete as a bare collection of links and doing a job better done by a category, but I can quite see that the redlinks might need filling. Just zis Guy you know? 20:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Debate closed as Speedy delete by Pschemp (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves • rights), appealed on WP:DRV#National Hockey League player lists. Reopened to let AfD run its course. Closing admin: please allow one extra day for formation of consensus to allow for this being marked closed for most of today. Just zis Guy you know? 20:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Delete: There is nothing enyclopedic about hockey players names that start with the letter B. Simillar information can be easily achieved with categories. Existing lists and categories make this article useless. --Hetar 20:15, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep the "problem" with the external links has now been fixed. There are lots of useless lists on wikipedia, but this is not one of them. having a complete list of NHL players helps prevent duplicate articles, vanity articles, and helps disambig players with the same name. Masterhatch 20:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
A complete list of all the players who have played in the NHL is very important for when people create player articles. The complete list prevents duplicate articles and helps with disambigs. Categories don't work as well because they only include players who have articles. By listing all the players, red links or not, it is so much easier. One possibility would be to merge all the players onto one article, but i think that would create too large of an article. Separating them alphabetically is efficient and easier to read. Masterhatch 20:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. As opposed to listcruft which belongs in a category, this list aids WP:HOCKEY members in avoiding duplicate articles.  RasputinAXP  c 20:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Obviously a useful reference. Merchbow 20:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep Usefull resource for those in WP:HOCKEY. Just remove the links if they are a problem. -Electricbolt 20:59, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep It looks like a useful tool to search for players, especially if you may not know how to spell their names exactly. --Eric 21:08, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep and cleanup/merge. I see no reason to delete these pages just because "they include lots of red links". Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep as per BoojiBoy. The reason for the original deletion request is no longer relevent. Resolute 00:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • One of the reasons is no longer relevant. The remaining one - that it is a bare list of links with no other information - remains. I suggest placing this in the Project space as a subpage of WP:HOCKEY - it is after all mainly a series of to-do lists. Just zis Guy you know? 15:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Perhaps we can be given a chance to improve these lists before we do that? I've started to add more to NHL players Z as an example of what the list *could* be. Certantly these lists, as they currently exist, are no more useless than List of Major League Baseball players, which is nothing more than a cateogry posing as an article and does not appear to be targetted for deletion at the moment. Resolute 17:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Excellent work, and I hope you carry it through to the other articles (it will take a while!). Bare lists I hate, but lists which add encyclopaedic information, as the Z list now does, are an asset to the project and I am strongly in favour of them. If only all lists on WP were like this we would have far less difficulty with arguments over what is and is not listcruft. Just zis Guy you know? 12:39, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep per Zzyzx11.--YGagarin 00:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep per Masterhatch and RasputinAXP above. Aottley 01:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep obviously. This was one of the more foolish nominations. --curling rock Earl Andrew - talk 04:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
    • With respect, the article has changed from when I nominated it to what you see now. I stated explicitly that as a list, I didn't have a problem with it. - Richardcavell 05:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. -- JamesTeterenko 04:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Strong delete Userfy, this is what categories are for. Note that I was the admin who speedily deleted A - G after Peyna tagged them, as at the time, it was a list of names with an external link next to every name. With those gone, they may not be speedied as such, but they are still worthless. If your sole reason for keeping them is 'the red links are useful', put them back in the user space someone decided to move them from in the first place. Indiscriminate lists are of no encyclopaedic value, and this is an encyclopaedia. Proto||type 08:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
    Changed to userfy, as that's really what I'm voting for. Proto||type 08:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
    We're already looking at ways to improve the articles on WP:HOCKEY. Resolute 15:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep As per above.
  • Comment: Unfortunately, categories don't work as well as a complete list of all the players who have played in the NHL for reasons that i have stated above. The idea is, of course, to eventually make an article for each NHL player (except players who have only played one game as one game doesn't make him noteworthy enough for his own article) thereby removing all the red links. I make about 10 player articles a week and I am not the only one making player articles. Not only do I create player articles regularly, I am also spending my time using media sources (such as tsn.ca) to update the list. as far as i know, it is the most complete list of sports players, and therefore the most usefull. A list (such as the baseball one) that is no where near complete is useless. having a complete list is the best way to keep track of all the NHL player articles. Can the articles be changed and improved? of course they can and should, but whatever fate holds true for this hockey list, the same fate must hold true for the baseball, football, soccer, rugby ones too. If you really want to tackle and delete a useless list that should be a category, then delete List of Jews in sports. Why not a List of Christians in sports? or a List of Mormons in sports? Anyways, my point is that there are countless useless lists on wikipedia, and a complete list of sports players that have played in a major league is not one of them. Masterhatch 17:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • KEEP WP:HOCKEY was mentioned in every article's talk page. Thanks for inquiring there prior to nominating. And thanks for assuming good faith, and realizing that the hockeydb.com links were added by a third party not as a "googlebombing" but because said site is widely regarded as the de facto resource for professional hockey statistics. ccwaters 17:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. If they are notable enough to be on this list, they are notable enough to have their own article, in which case that article can be added to a self-maintaining and self-sorting category. If they are not, they should not be on the list. I assert that this is listcruft as redundant to a category. Stifle (talk) 22:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: If it's in use to further a WikiProject, then I have no problems with it being moved to Wikipedia namespace. Stifle (talk) 22:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Speedy Keep: Sorry I've had internet problems and was not able to contribute to the discussion as of yet, but this is just silly that these articles are being put up for deletion in the first place. I agree these pages could be improved so it just isn't names beside links, but it still is an effective way of seeing which NHL players have articles and which do not, so that we may create new articles because they are a ton of very notable NHL players (mostly former ones) who do not yet have an existing article. This list is continuing to get updated, and it is a great guide for us people in the hockey editing world, that could not be used categorically because as I said before, you can't put uncreated articles into categories. I have created numerous stubs (at least 100-150) about hockey players thru these lists that need to have been created. There is no way that these articles should be deleted. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 15:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Turn it all into a category, delete the article I don't see why these lists of MLB, NHL, etc. are put into articles when a link when a category page can do a much better job of listing these people.-- The ikiroid  02:44, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment, I can't believe you said that a category page can do a much better job of listing these people. There are hundreds of notable NHL players who have yet to get articles and that can't be listed in categories because, obviously, they do not have an article. There is no way a category is sufficient for the content of these articles. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 03:22, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
  • You make a list on a hockey wikiproject subpage of all of the notable hockey athletes that still need an article. You put all of the players that already have an article in the category. How's that?-- The ikiroid  18:11, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Personally, I believe that with the changes we are implementing to the lists (see: NHL players Y, they are valuable to keep as articles. Give us a chance to make these lists encyclopedic. Resolute 04:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.