Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murray Stewart Wilson

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. -Docg 00:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Murray Stewart Wilson

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Murray Stewart Wilson (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete Seems to fail notability Avi 18:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep What is notability? I have edited the article myself with great care and every entry is true and verified. Why can I not contact Avraham? It has been in existance for some months already and I have already had it accepted by other WIKIPEDIA "policemen". Please dont delete this page. Murray Wilson is clearly of great international stature and is a senior manager in the United Nations, he is clearly of greater status and stature than many others in his alumni groups. He was awarded the Iraq medal by the queen for service and bravery. I cannot think of a better person for inclusion in WIKIPEDIA, especially as many other entries are just local sports people who have achieved little in their lives. Please contact me. --Muzzamemphis 18:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Much information about him has had to be restricted due to his signing of the Official Secrets Act. If you can lay out minimum requirements for "notification" I am certain they can be met. --Muzzamemphis 18:43, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Apart from notification, which is for clear reasons I have explained, dont you agree that someone of his great stature, selfless devotion to humans in crisis, and humanity is ideally suited for inclusion??--Muzzamemphis 18:45, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Please read Wikipedia:Notability (people) -- Avi 19:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Those make him suited for some recognition somewhere. Wikipedia is not that place, unless you can find independent sources which give non-trivial coverage to his work. Thousands of people do service work within foreign countries, and thousands of people are UN bureaucrats. The only claim that comes close to notability is being awarded the Iraq Medal, but per that award's article, "The medal, therefore, continues to be awarded for either thirty days service in Iraq or, in the case of aircrew, for ten sorties flown into Iraq." Anyone killed or injured in that service also gets the medal. I don't see any reason to consider that a major award; thousands of people have already been awarded it, presumably, based on the listed criteria. Delete per WP:BIO unless reliable sources are found which show he's been recognized for individual accomplishments not shared by thousands of others. Barno 19:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • If it is the case that merely being one of many is the reason for not including him, then why inclde rugby players, of whom there are thousands, or writers, of whom there are again thousands. And few of them have any lead role in society. Wikipedia must not become UK or Eurocentric. it is and must remain an international tome.

    Apart from the Iraq medal, Murray has been arrested and tortured by Saddam Huseins Baath party in 1990, he created the first Conflict Management Unit in the world within the UN system, he negotiated directly with the Khmer Rouge in 1996 to try and recover kidnapped friends. Thousands of people dont do this, almost nobody has given up 20 years of their lives with such dedication and sacrifice. On this point the previous contributer is just wrong. I just dont see how you can say that the bass player from Supertramp, or the pianist who accompanied some famous singers can be included whilst this genuine hero is ignored. He also has signed letters of thanks from Donald Rumsfeld, Hillary Benn and L Paul Bremmer. I would call all of this non-trivial, but as was stated in the discussion, the oficial secrects act and personal security means that for obvious reasons hias name could not be widely acknowledged. He would not have been proposed if he were just one of the aid workers who gives up a few months to prove themselves but he is a true and genuine leader in his field. I would suggest that any decisions in this matter be made by people who understand the sector and the profession. As far as notability is concerned then more references can be found. This processjust seems like a very confrontational and subjective way to expand the base of knowledge, who are these faceless "policemen" anyway? Personal tastes and jealousies should not come into the discussion, how about John Corrie, Tory MP, one pf thousands over the years, has done nothing of note ever, you tell me who deserves to be ibcluded?

    Apologies, I forgot to sign the above--World community 19:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC) — World community (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  • Comment: Members of Parliament and major-league rugby players get mentioned many times in reliable sources, regardless of whether their activities save lives or show courage or demonstrate leadership. Please see the policy Wikipedia:Verifiability and the guideline Wikipedia:Notability. Wikipedia is not a judge of importance or value or who "deserves" what; WP is only a reflection of what topics have been considered important enough or valuable enough to be covered elsewhere. Googling without the middle name is tough because it's a common name: hockey player, baseball player, photographer, petroleum exec, father of a Beach Boy, speleologist, et cetera. When I exclude some keywords, I still find nothing relevant (except things like an e-mail forwarding site) on the first four pages of this search. Googling full name gives no reliable sources, mainly just Wikipedia mirrors. Can you show that published sources found the creation of the UN's first CMU to be noteworthy? I'd like to vote "keep" because my heart agrees with Muzzamemphis, but I can't unless some sources acceptable to WP's policies are found. Barno 00:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete unless creator can provide verifiable sources- articles, etc with this person as the primary subject that show notability. -FisherQueen (Talk) 20:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep I just glaced over the arguments and both sides have good points, however if some refences can be found then I agree with him that he is exactly the kind of person who should be included rather than his pet hate "rugby players". --Stamina44 20:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC) — Stamina44 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep it if we can see the letter from Rumsfeld. --Marco Giovani Polo 20:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC) — Marco Giovani Polo (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Conditional keep - - Sierra Leone, Congo, Cambodia, Iraq, Iran - some of the worst genocides last century, I agree that Barno is wrong to say that thousands do this, there are only a handfull of people who have been to these places, he must have balls. I also want to see the Rumsfeld letter. I get the impression that Barno never gets out very much.--12badger12 20:28, 1 February 2007 (UTC) — 12badger12 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Delete per nom. Reads like a resume. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fundamentaldan (talk • contribs) 20:48, 1 February 2007 (UTC). Yeah, sorry, I forgot the tildes. You got it before I got to it. Dern bot! Fundamentaldan 20:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Compare to Keith Moffatt - a complete nobody--World community 21:18, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete No indication he is more notable that tens of thousands of other war veterans or civilian workers in war zones. Inaadequate independent reliable sources. Edison 21:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per original author's request in article Apparently the author has requested on the article page to delete the article "as there is too much ignorance on all sides". Delete per original author's request. Dugwiki 23:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete Blanked by author. Maxamegalon2000 06:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
  • strong keep Dont we usually delete at authors request only if nobody else has edited or been interested in doing so? That is not the case here. I cannot interpret the reasons for her request. He is i y the sort of person who should be included, but that is not the actual point: he himself is notable with adequate sourcing to show it. If there are a thousand others of equal notability, lets source them and add them. DGG 06:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, there's User:Muzzamemphis, who created the page. There's User:World community, who seems to be a SPA and after calling Keith Moffatt "a complete nobody" a few lines up also added that assertion to his article. There's an IP address that, based on the last couple of edits, seems to belong to User:Muzzamemphis. And there's a categorizing bot, and the AfD tag. I hope you didn't think that all of the links in the article were sources; they were just links to the websites of the organizations mentioned. --Maxamegalon2000 15:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

"Definitely Keep" - I have known Murray Wilson since 2001 through my role as a member of staff at the Department of Peace Studies at The University of Bradford. Murray's contribution to this field has been significant enough to gain attention. Insights he has gained have been shared with hundreds of students within the Department of Peace Studies in guest lectures and informal seminar discussions. Many students have described his work as a real 'inspiration' in their own efforts to make a difference in the world. Such practical insights are what ensure academic debate is grounded in reality. If Wikipedia is to be of value, then people like Murray must be included. His work is not trivial. It is of profound value in a troubled world. It must also be stated that this is not about ego. So much of Murray's work happens behind the scenes and will never be published. This article must not be deleted. It's as simple as that. Michael Fryer. Mpfryer 11:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)— Mpfryer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.