Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mountain giants

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete and userfy on request. Despite the keep comments (ignoring the double by Durin's Bane (talk · contribs)), the reasoned objections and the lack of uncontested sourcing make it clear that the article as is fails WP:V, which is a consensus-overriding policy. Per the participants that think the subject might merit an article, editing can continue in userspace until verifiability issues are addressed. I'll let all the participants here know if that should happen. ~ trialsanderrors 18:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mountain giants

Mountain giants (discussion|history|protect|delete|undelete|logs|links)

This article is almost entirely original research. The information that can actually be extracted from The Hobbit can be given in one or two sentences. TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

• KeepI don't believe this is original research. Who ever the author is, they did a good job in rembering the sections of giants in the Simillarion and Unfinished Tales. I read down farther between a discussion of the author and the guy above me and yes there is a book that Tolkien originally wrote called Guide to Middle Earth. The only thing wrong with this page is the name, it should be Stone Giants not Mountain Giants. Anyways, this page should stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Durin's Bane (talk • contribs) [1] Don't think you're fooling anyone.

I didn't write that, my friend did, and if I wanted to fool you, you would not see it coming, even if I told you.

In that case, who did your friend think he was fooling? "Who ever the author is" indeed! But next time you might want to have him log in as himself. TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

He is like that, I told him of my problem with you and he said he would help and I had no idea what he wrote. Sometimes he is weird, now see the cited source, yes, ohh, ahhh yes, it is true it is there. I did what you want now do what I want, take the Deletion off!

• Keep and clean up. We have articles for other of Tolkiens creatures, so mountain giants seems a valid article too. Jcuk 23:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

  It's not that it's about a Tolkien creature, but that practically nothing in it has anything to do with what Tolkien wrote. He mentions them exactly once, and all he says is that they were large and were throwing rocks at each other. Nothing else in the article is from Tolkien. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom unless authoritative(i.e. from Tolkein, not video games or fan fiction or comics or movies or whatever) sources for further detail can be found Bwithh 03:47, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and leave the same. Hey, I created this page and I studied for months and worked hard to get it done. I am Durin's Bane and I found all of this information from the internet, in tolkiens personal writings, from the Hobbit, Simillarion, Lord of the Rings, Unfinished tales and much more. I worked hard on this and it should not be deleted. Most of my information came from Tolkien's Guide to Middle Earth, it is a book that describes every living thing or race or character. He mentioned them much more than once, and it cannot be put all into two sentences, mainly because of the fact that nothing in Tolkien's world could be described in two sentences. Like I was saying in the section of stone giants it specificly states what I have written. The information came from what Bilbo had written in The Red Book of Westmarch. This is all accurate and correct. Even the information of the giants in the Battle for Middle Earth 2 game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Durin's Bane (talk • contribs)

  Unless you found it in something written by Tolkien, you can't just say it as if he invented it that way. He never wrote a "Guide to Middle Earth". If you found anything about "mountain giants" in The Silmarillion you were seeing things. I recall nothing about them in Unfinished Tales. He mentioned them once or twice in Letters as anomalies that don't fit well into the rest of his mythology, IIRC. And in any event, I believe he called them by no other name than "stone giants"; "mountain giants" must come from somewhere else. I would guess that and everything else here was either made up by the author of the Guide, or is from some game or other. Either way, you should say so and provide references. Do that and I'll ask for this AfD to be withdrawn. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Its a definite keep. Needs some work to tidy the article. scope_creep 17:20, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

What are YOU talking about. Tolkien did write giants in the Similarion he wrote them possibly being the ones who created Helm's Deep. And yes he did write a Guide to Middle Earth book. It was edited by his son, I have the book. I don't know how to site sources but I'll try, and if this is demolished I will write it all again! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.44.18.70 (talk • contribs)

The bit about Helm's Deep was mentioned as a legend and not a fact. It was actually built by the Númenoreans early in Gondor's history. Even in Middle-earth, not all legendary creatures necessarily exist. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

But these do!

• Strong Delete this is almost entirely original research and much longer than the entry in the only cited source. Notability is also a concern since they have such minor apperences in Tolkien's works. Unlike Hobbits say, I'd argue that these creatures don't deserve an article of their own, even if it's cleaned up and properly sourced. Eluchil404 11:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.