Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mother of the Nation

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. -Doc^g 00:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mother of the Nation

Mother of the Nation (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The article should be deleted for the same reaons as Father of the Nation, currently being discussed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Father_of_the_Nation If possible, this article is even more silly and I do wonder if the author added it as a joke or not. How many Americans in the US think "Ah, mother of the nation!" when somebody mentions Eleanor Roosevelt? And I can guarantee Tarja Halonen is not described in that way. And just who is Inge Meisel. I hope this article is deleted before we have to see "Son of the nation", "Daughter of the Nation" and "Cousin's Step-oncle of the Nation"... :-) JdeJ 23:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

• Delete "X who have been called Y" articles are almost never keepers. - Richfife 01:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete- I don't think this term is notable or in widespread use Thunderwing 08:15, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, for the same reasons as Father of the Nation. To answer the question above: Actress Inge Meysel was in fact widely known in Germany as "Mutter der Nation" (mother of the nation) - mainly for starring as a mother in a popular TV series. That's just to show how ridiculous these kind of "titles" are. --B. Wolterding 09:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete If it were "Official Birds" or "State Flowers" then I would say to keep it, but this is not an official designation that I am aware of or can find.' Slavlin 17:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. These women are indeed often mentioned as "mothers of nation", although this is all subjective. Still, the phenomenon is well known and notable.Biophys 05:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, what is the "phenomenon" in the end? Actually the very term "mother of the nation" is ambiguous, all the more if translated into foreign languages; does it refer to "some woman who helped building the nation", or to "some woman who is widely known as a mother", or to "some woman who is widely for acting the role of a mother"? See the "Inge Meysel" example above. --B. Wolterding 07:35, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Sure, everything is ambiguous in society. This is not mathematics.Biophys 18:58, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

True, it's not mathematics. It's original research, no sources and completely made up. Tarja Halonen is not called Mother of the Nation, Eleanor Roosevelt is not and Inge Meysel is an actor. The article is inaccurate and few of these women, possibly none, is called Mother of the Nation. Being from one of the countries mentioned in the article and having lived for quite some time in two others, I can safely say that the article is pure nonsence. JdeJ 01:13, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. I was able to find valid sources (ie not blogs, etc.) for everyone on the list that I checked, including Eleanor Roosevelt and Tarja Halonen. Much of this discussion so far seems to lack a historical perspective--just because not all of the women are known as "Mother of the Nation" today doesn't mean that haven't been referred to in that way in the past. Inge Meysel probably doesn't belong, but the others seem to have a relatively consistent basis for inclusion, something like "a woman who helped build the nation, or lead it through crisis". Sohelpme 01:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Reply still delete This is one of those cases where finding cites isn't really the problem. Of course many people have been referred to in passing as "the mother of their nation". The problem is it's just an opinion of some people, not a formalized award. And if you really, really dig, you'll probably find hundreds of candidates for every nation in the world. So then we get into fuzzy territory trying to decide who's been thought of enough to make the grade, etc. It's just not a maintainable list. - Richfife 02:05, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Reply still delete. I agree with the previous user. I did a quick search just in Finnish, and found more than 20 women who has been referred to by a title that can be translated as mother of the nation. But the title isn't official, it can be used by anybody for anybody and so the selection on this list remains subjective and OR. JdeJ 05:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.