Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mootstormfront (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 23:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mootstormfront

Note: this article was previously nominated for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Mootstormfront

Doesn't meet WP:WEB, and fails Wikipedia:Verifiability as there are no reliable sources on this that I can find. Alexa ranking of 1,696,653, only 83 unique google hits on mootstormfront, all of which are message board posts, blogs, wikipedia and its mirrors. This web forum has 167 members. The previous AfD result was Keep, based on nothing more than various statements that "this group is well known", which doesn't help with Wikipedia:Verifiability at all Xyzzyplugh 19:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - clear failure of WP:WEB, and a forum with 74 "active" members, it says. ~Matticus ^T_C 20:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete fails WP:RS and hence WP:OR (and WP:WEB) - Yomangani 22:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. --Gramaic | Talk 07:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  Why? --Xyzzyplugh 13:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  True, Mootstormfront does not have many strong sources. But, this web forum is famous among racists, and non-racists. Mootstormfront is known for being Stormfront's anti-racist opposite. Regards, --Gramaic | Talk 23:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

  "not many strong sources" actually means zero strong sources in this case. And, from WP:V, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader must be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, because Wikipedia does not publish original thought or original research". We do not have articles on "famous" things which are unverifiable. Wikipedia:Verifiability is "non-negotiable and cannot be superseded by any other guidelines, or by editors' consensus". --Xyzzyplugh 13:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Comment. This is an important website in its field. However, without 3rd party sources it is hard to establish its notability. -Will Beback 01:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I found nothing on Lexis or the ILL service for Missouri's academic libraries (perhaps a cooler state's...). There are only about 85 unique google hits for this, though I understand that google has trouble with unique hit counts when the total hits top 1,000. Many of those hits were negative rumblings from white-power websites, forums, and blogs, but none of those really count as reliable sources. A forum without media coverage and just 100 members just doesn't have the notability for more than a mention in the stormfront article, which is already there. Unless even a single source can be found, it should be deleted.--Kchase T 05:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.