Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miss Martindale

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy delete as a copyvio of this article from the "Aristasia Wiki", which explicitly forbids derivative works under its Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 2.5 license (CSD G12). No prejudice to writing a new article from scratch; a LexisNexis search reveals that the claimed Guardian/Independent/etc. articles do in fact exist, satisfying WP:BIO. Krimpet (talk) 02:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miss Martindale

Miss Martindale (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Apparently non-notable dominatrix and creator of a fictional lesbian micronation, "Aristasia", an article on which was deleted several months ago as non-notable. Vaguely asserts that she is "famous", but cites no reliable or independent sources backing up this claim, or verifying anything else in the article. Krimpet (talk) 20:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Miss Martindale was a relatively public figure in Britain in the 1990s, self-published several books, and wrote as a magazine columnist as recently as 2005. Joie de Vivre 21:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment: No one seems to contest that hundreds of female porn stars are "notable" for nothing other than having sex on camera. I oppose deleting an article about a creative woman who made a name for herself while keeping her clothes on. Joie de Vivre 21:08, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Also, the above description of Martindale is inaccurate: In the official Aristasia wiki, Martindale is described as having a clear dislike for S/M.[1] Nowhere in any of her writings or interviews does she describe herself as a "dominatrix". Joie de Vivre 01:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

• Delete I can't believe we're having this discussion. Two sources, both the subjects own website (one is a redirect so it looks independent at first glance). The five "external sources" consist of two links to her own sites, two to youtube and one to a nine year old story in the "Wanstead & Woodford Guardian". A search on UK Google brings up no hits other than Wiki mirrors, porn sites, "britishspanking.co.uk", and some videos on Youtube. Either should be judged under WP:PORNBIO in which case she doesn't come close, or under WP:BIO in which case her sole sources are a single local paper article and the fact that she was on a single TV show ten years ago when Channel 4 was going through its "artistic" phase — iridescenti (talk to me!) 21:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment: You sound a bit upset about this. Is there some reason for the hostility in your tone? Joie de Vivre 21:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I've been scouring for information on this "documentary," and from what I can find:

• It's not a documentary of which she is the subject. It's a bondage flick.
• It wasn't created by Channel 4; it appears to be an independent production. (The phrase "Channel 4 documentary" as used in the article seems to imply an air of credibility.)
• It never aired again after a single airing in 1996.
• It's not available on video/DVD/anywhere else except on YouTube, etc. Krimpet (talk) 21:47, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment Further to the above, the "magazine" for which she was a columnist was The Chap, an occasional (3-4 times a year) spoof magazine sold mail-order and at a few bookshops & WHSmith branches, not a "real" magazine. Incidentially, on a leafing through Arastasia's bulletin board this "nation" appears to have eight active members. Joie de Vivre, where do you get "hostility" from? "Hostile" isn't a synonym for "thinks it violates inclusion criteria", otherwise today alone I'm hostile to Tears for Fears, an Australian footballer, international football stadia, a Canadian surrealist, the Iraq war, laser pointers and a dubious holocaust-denial text — iridescenti (talk to me!) 22:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

What I mean is that you don't sound entirely composed. Joie de Vivre 23:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I think Iridescenti was only incredulous that there would be support for this article. Let's stick to addressing the points being made. -kotra 23:42, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

• Keep if the sources quoted here can be verified by the end of the AFD. The link quotes substantive stories from several unquestionably reliable sources which, if legitimate, clearly establish the notability of the subject. Otto4711 22:44, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

While it may be that they haven't archived that far back, "Miss Martindale", "Marianne Martindale" and "Aristasia" all get 0 hits on the Guardian/Observer and Independent websites — iridescenti (talk to me!) 22:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

If the sources exist offline they are still reliable. Otto4711 00:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.