Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Television's Interloper

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete, fails WP:MUSIC.  RasputinAXP  c 20:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Television's Interloper

A local musical group, one gig at the local rugby club, no records, no record deal, doesn't meet WP:MUSIC. Middenface 13:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Speedy delete Meets WP:CSD A7. A {{db-band}} tag might work better. --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 13:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Feel the comments to request for deletion are unfair. Middenface downpats that the private gig was to 170 people and tickets were purchased for the show. A cursory glance at TheKoG would indicate a desire for revisionist behaviour and vandalism and would like to take this into account on a speedy deletion. Music is available to download via the website and myspace site. The band does contain a member of British Beef, Felix Morvan Rocksta AKA Felix Milburn Foster who were signed to a developing deal with Sony/BMG, the largest label currently in Britain. As outlined in WP:MUSIC His band are currently still signed to Fat Fox Records Writer of blog is insuring to keep in view of WP:NPOV policy. New Way Of Decay

• Comment There is huge difference between "signed to" a record label and actually having released a CD, and having significant numbers of people buy it. Myspace and website downloads are worth practically nothing, as it seems every teenage garage band has those. Fan1967 14:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment While the above point is a viable one regarding accessability of music downloads, the argument for the wiki to be deleted is that it does not follow the WP:MUSIC policy. It fulfils this criteria by including a member of a band who have had national press and a single release 'Without Me' on the 25th of July. New Way Of Decay

• • Comment Not sure if New Way Of Decay is accusing me of vandalism or not (desire for revisionist behaviour and vandalism?), but I recommend you read WP:CSD like I mentioned in my vote. How does this article in its current form not meet the criteria for speedy deletion? --TheKoG (talk|contribs) 15:29, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment, am I correct in reading that the claim that Michael Television's Interloper meets WP:MUSIC is based on the inclusion of one band member (Felix Milburn Foster) who is also in the band British Beef? I'm not sure British Beef meets WP:MUSIC, so that would kind of kill the idea of confered notability to Michael Television's Interloper under WP:MUSIC. I'm still looking into it before rendering an opinion though.--Isotope23 15:37, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment WP:MUSIC suggests "Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...)", "Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network" and "Has been the subject of a half hour or hour broadcast on a national radio network" As the band have been as interviewed in the national press, widely publicised magazines , television and radio rotation and airplay and the inclusion of the single on the console game FIFA Street 2 then the argument that British Beef and therefore it's guitarist is not 'notable' would be a woeful assumption. New Way Of Decay
    • Strong Delete -- with exactly three hits on UK Google for MTI, two of them being this band's Myspace page, one being its website (and zero links from Alexa other than itself), I take any claims of national press, radio airplay and magazine articles not merely with a grain of salt, but with the whole bloody shaker. Any actual citations to be had here? RGTraynor 16:33, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
      • Comment May I request should you like to argue about the verification that the above band British Beef have not the credentials listed above that you re-read all the comments in the article. It currently features a link to a multi-national console game. Should you need to find an article, there are dozens online. This article clearly mentions heavy rotation on tv and radio. There are more. This one mentions winning BBC Radio 1's best unsigned act and getting airplay from that. Unfortunately for people requesting it's deletion are on the grounds of contributors who have mostly scan read articles. Hopefully, should we be allowed to continue working on the wiki by moderators who do more than do a quick browse. The band is by an large fledgling, but the request for deletion should be based solely on the dispute that it does not serve a higher purpose, which frankly, if it's enough to annoy contributors who seem largely not to read English publications, would be justifiable in itself. New Way Of Decay
    • Comment May I put forward the following links which support the fact that British Beef's track "Without Me" was part of BBC Radio 1's playlist?[1][2][3][4][5] Also, here is a link to the official website of the Electronic Arts game, Fifa Street 2, which was recently launched worldwide. FIFA Street 2 Clicking on the "Launch EA Trax Music Player" link will open a new window showing the game's playlist. British Beef are listed at position 7, alongside artists such as Roni Size, The Flaming Lips and The Subways. I would also like to add that British Beef won the "Radio 1 Best Unsigned Act" prior to their deal with Sony. Miscellaneousfiles 16:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - (glancing at the top of the page) Err, last I checked, this wasn't British Beef's AfD -- although you do need a page in the first place for that, and BB doesn't have one. But MTI scarcely exists -- just one gig, no albums, no singles, no nothing. Even stipulating that BB is notable, MTI sure the heck isn't, short of Eric Clapton deciding to front it. RGTraynor 18:20, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment New Way Of Decay is latching onto the line "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable" in WP:MUSIC. The logic is: since MTI contains a former member of BB, if BB barely makes the cut as notable, then MTI can stay. Fan1967 18:28, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment To correct Fan1967 MTI containts a CURRENT member of British Beef. He is the frontman, lead singer, songwriter and founder member of BB and therefore I would suggest, the most notable. Further, to correct RGTraynor Michael Television's Interloper has in fact played TWO gigs and has future live outings planned. 82.68.93.190 19:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment I can assure you that the difference between one gig and two does not matter in the slightest. Whether or not the BB connection is sufficient is the only claim that's remotely arguable. Fan1967 20:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Arguably by the logic instilled in the reasoning for its deletion is that it doesn't hold up to the wikipedia rules, when it does in fact do this. Simply arguing that the band entry itself has no reason to exist because you personally doubt its merits when it more than succesfully fulfils criteria is sour. The argument by following the string of text should be as follows: the claim that the band are local, when the information has been garned globally, that the band have no recordings, when songs are directly available to download for free and that the band have played a venue of no sizeable note when in fact an entertainment license must be held by the proprieters. That the band have are not a profitable enterprise should not be the first and foremost reasoning for a wiki not to exist. Fairly pointed out by TheKoG that the page may be deemed as vanity is a fair one and has been noted above that the text will be adjusted accordingly. However, further arguing against obvious links to reliable media sources should be discounted or more realistically, contributors should honour the media source before posting further doubt. As for the comments regarding 'whether the band gigged once or twice' should be held as valid, in the first instance because the reason a page should be flagged for deletion should at least be factual to gain any weight and secondly, that the information by standards is grossly inadequate. The example in this case comes in the form of Fan1967 and their reassurance about gig numbers. The room for error was 100% When you do the maths, this is no small percentage. If the argument for the pages deletion is in splitting hairs, then the case for its approval should be held with equal intensity. In other words, if contributors are reluctant to stick to the discussion in hand, then they should at least honour the facts, or find another wiki page to gripe about. Noteably RGTraynor is under the impression Eric Clapton needs to front a band for it to fulfil the criteria, which clearly shows a lack of understanding of both the wiki guides and irony.

• Comment - Perhaps you might debate the points we've actually made, rather than presenting straw man arguments. No one has said MTI should be deleted because it's "local," nor does the "information [having been] garned globally" factor in to the slightest degree -- any 14-year-old wannabe can put up a MP3 that can be downloaded worldwide. Nor does anyone allege that it has made no recordings at all; simply that no recordings it has made has verifiably satisfied WP:MUSIC's 5,000+ (or certified gold) sales mark. Nor do the reasons MTI hasn't played in a major venue figure into the criteria; only that it hasn't. My comment about Clapton was a sound analogy; it might not take a Clapton to make a band notable, but it sure does to make a band with only two (tiny) gigs, no albums, no sales and no airplay notable. I recommend WP:CHILL. RGTraynor 07:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

By the bye, while I'm at it, the sole edits of 82.68.93.190, Miscellaneousfiles and New Way Of Decay are in this article and this AfD discussion. We might add WP:VAIN to the till, at least. RGTraynor 07:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:NMG. Stifle (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.