Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Masakazu Takahashi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. —Kurykh 01:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Masakazu Takahashi

Masakazu Takahashi (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

No references at all, no indications of the notability of this person or his company. High on a tree 12:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

• Keep (I hope I'm editing this in the right place). I've added a link to Takahashi's website. I have trained with him for over 20 years. There are very few online references in this space - I'm not sure what more I can add. Please advise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregmarch (talk • contribs) 07:08, 20 July 2007
• Delete Does not meet notability guidelines - no significant coverage in reliable sources. Gregmarch, please read WP:Notability for information on the guidelines. —Travis^talk 14:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
• Delete Clearly not sufficiently notable. "There are very few online references..." – How about offline sources? Any available? They need to be independent of the subject and provide a non-trivial treatment. Adrian M. H. 14:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Comment Last attempt... Karate, and traditional martial arts in general, have been very secretive. As such, they don't tend publish their accomplishments (Funakoshi's Karate-Do Kyohan - The Master Text and Karate-Do Kyohan - My Way od Life were a big deal when he wrote it). I was hoping to begin to at least point out some of the core traditional instructors, starting with one that is close to me. As such, if it is still deemed to be a "Delete", I'm thinking that I could create a section under the Kenkojuku entry for "Kenkojuku Instructors". Comments? -Thanks Greg March 15:31, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Unless you have verifiable sources to show that Masakazu Takahashi is notable outside Amityville, Mt. Kisco, or Haddon Township, I still find no basis for notability. Also, although the article appears to be rather neutral in tone, it is not a good idea to write about people you have a close relationship to. —Travis^talk 16:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It matters little if they decline to write about their accomplishments, Greg, since it is required that other people have seen fit to write about them. If that has not happened, then WP:N (and WP:V) cannot be met. Adrian M. H. 16:11, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Understood. Thank you for the tips. I think I will just create a section under Kenkojuku that starts a list of instructors with a brief bio. Hopefully, if I understand the standards, this should be OK. Greg March 16:57, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Only if you can verify your additions, per WP:V. Primary sources cannot be used on their own, partly for reasons of reliability and partly because WP would fail in its intention to be a tertiary source. 17:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

• comment - I think I found a page via Google that says this sensei is 8th Dan? [1] It also says he was the "Association's chief U.S. instructor". I don't know how to apply notability guidelines to this, and know nothing about martial arts, but if he really is 8th Dan and a "chief instructor", does that make him notable at least within American Karate? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 19:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
• comment also, at the same time, I'd agree a section within Kenkojuku may be the better way to treat the subject - especially if you think his notability is mostly in the context of Kenkojuku. AllGloryToTheHypnotoad 19:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

That would be enough to verify a brief section (in which notability is much less important than verifiability) but a dedicated article would need "multiple" sources to establish notability. Adrian M. H. 19:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Agree, and I've added it to Kenkojuku. Thanks again. Greg March 19:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletions. —Peter Rehse 08:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

• delete Running one or two dojos does not make someone notable. If he is 8th Dan Shotokan and has a wider influence a case could be made but it is not our job to do the research. As the article stands, especially since his teacher does not even have an article (how can we assess the importance) I think the case for deletion is strong.Peter Rehse 08:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Unfortunately, notability cannot be established in this instance. If permitted, than every karate instructor out there deserves an article. Has he had any articles done on him or written any in notable martial arts publications? Has he won or fought in any major competitions that are recognized as noteworthy? These sorts of things will help assert notability, otherwise it reads more like an advertisement. (Mind meal 22:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC))

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.