Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marlborough, Auckland

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Speedy keep. Stifle (talk) 21:00, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marlborough, Auckland

Whilst going through a process of requesting the moves of a number of articles in Category:Auckland urban districts I concluded that many of these suburbs are not notable enough to even deserve a stub. Any information that is relevant can be included in articles relating to nearby suburbs that are large enough to be notable.

I note that a search for "Marlborough, Auckland" turned up nothing in Wises Maps , New Zealand's most comprehensive online map, and that in fact I, who live in Auckland, had never heard of the suburb of "Marlborough" (although of course there is a notable region of the same name in the South Island).

There are others that should also be deleted but as a first-time afd nominator I'm just going to see how this goes and take it from there. PageantUpdater 04:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Withdraw nomination Although I disagree with the principal behind the argument "all real, documented places are notable" I will respect the arguments put forward here, stop complaining, and start expanding. After some digging I have found Marlborough in the electoral profile and (eventually) on a map. PageantUpdater 01:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete. A Google search comes up with some hits but nothing which verifies Marlborough as a suburb of Auckland see [1]. Keep per Grutness. If it is in maps and recognised by automotive bodies.Capitalistroadster 06:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. It's listed by the New Zealand Automobile Association as a suburb, and also listed on street maps of Auckland as a suburb. It lies to the west of the Northern Motorway between Hillcrest and Glenfield. The article needs a bit more info, though - to say the least. Grutness...wha? 06:27, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Comment What exactly is the notability standard for suburbs/locations? I had a hunt but couldn't find anything on WP. Surely it has to be that the name is widely recognised? Otherwise WP would be riddled with suburb stubs... Anyway, a question to Grutness... you say that the AA lists Marlborough as a suburb? Was this in print and online. And if online, where? I've had a look around their website and can't find anything. PageantUpdater 06:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Offline - the AA Auckland street directory shows it as a suburb. Grutness...wha? 08:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Comment Fair enough, but I guess it begs the question, should every single little suburb have an article? Respectfully disagreeing with Kimchi.sg, I think that some suburbs (whether on a map or not) are so small that they would be best merged into the larger area they are within. Which, in this case seems to be Glenfield. As a possibility, you could even include the information in Glenfield (which I have, by the way, suggested it be moved to Glenfield, North Shore City or similar - see Category talk:Auckland urban districts) and then use a redirect. I guess what I'm basing this on is that I lived in Auckland for twenty years and have driven around the north shore but have not heard of this suburb (which isn't to say it doesn't exist, just that it probably isn't notable). PageantUpdater 09:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep and expand per Grutness. To PageantUpdater: I'd consider official recognition in a street directory, map or similar listing for a suburb to be notable enough. Kimchi.sg 07:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm an Aucklander, and a couple of decades ago I was a truck driver doing deliveries throughout the area, so I think I know the city fairly well, but I'd never heard of this suburb before. That just means that it's after my time, but it seems non-notable. Weak delete.-gadfium 08:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • A diligent soul started articles for pretty much every suburb on the North Shore. I did a little minor clean-up after a few of them, but I'm a bit mixed about their value. I can only surmise the location of Marlborough in relation to the suburbs its apparently between. Further, my brief interactions suggest that Hillcrest isn't much to "write home about", although I confess to only having dropped off a friend of a friend there a couple of times. On the other hand, I see these articles as almost totally harmless. There is much much worse cruft out there. Weak keep. --Limegreen 10:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep: I'm an Aucklander, and the original creator of the page(the page was created by a semi-automatic process with manual review, with a batch of other Auckland suburbs, using data generated from LINZ data to compute the compass directions between suburbs, and with automatic collation with census data. Marlborough has no census data, but it is in the LINZ maps. I do not personally know much about Marlborough except that it exists, but I think if it is on the LINZ map data, it is a recognised land name, and should be kept. A1kmm 11:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment I honestly don't know why I'm still arguing to delete this because I don't really care one way or the other (based on your arguments), but here's another test. I did a google search of the North Shore City website for "Marlborough [2] and came up with fifty-one results. The majority of these talk about "Marlborough Park" (/Reserve) (most of the results), "Marlborough School", "Marlborough Avenue". Not once can I find it referred to as a suburb. In comparison, a search of the site for Hillcrest (as an example given above) came back with thirty-six results [3], but most of these referred to Hillcrest as a suburb. Not sure if this proves anything, but its just something to note. -- PageantUpdater 11:13, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment BTW for the LINZ place names data record, see [4] A1kmm 11:15, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. The suburb isn't a new invention; I recall a bus route from the city called "Marlborough/Takapuna" over 20 years ago. Not the most notable suburb IMO though. -- Avenue 13:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, as real places like cities, towns, neighborhoods, suburbs, etc are always notable. Carioca 13:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep, all real places are notable. --Terence Ong 16:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment -- I'm close to withdrawing my nom as this obviously isn't going anywhere, and this probably isn't the place to talk about it, but I strongly disagree with the argument "all real places are notable". I'm not basing this on any relevant policy, but if you ask me that's too broad an assumption. I can hardly see how a place can be notable if someone who has lived in the city where that place is their entire life has never heard of it. Furthermore, your argument could easily be extended to: my street (which is a real place) is notable, which it clearly isn't. Just because it can be found on a map or in Linz doesn't exactly confer notability in my opinion, because there are many mini- mini- suburbs out there that are generally considered part of the larger area (Glenfield, in this case) but that are given specific mention in Surveying reports because those reports need to be specific to the most miniscule detail. I also feel that the assumption that "all real places are notable" is as ridiculous as "all real people are notable". Can someone please direct me to the appropriate WP policy page so I can continue this argument there and save you guys the steam? -- PageantUpdater 22:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
    You're comparing apples and oranges - in mathematician speak, the set of real place names is much smaller than the set of real people. Kimchi.sg 01:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.