Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marija Skalovska

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete with no prejudice against future recreation if better info is available. CitiCat ♫ 02:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marija Skalovska

Marija Skalovska (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Delete - No objective proof of person's existence. Only ghits are wiki-originated. Nothing in NY Times or any other publication. Maybe I'm nuts but I think somebody created this for a friend. Pugnacious 23:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete Unless notability is established Corpx 05:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: here's page at the Macedonian Institute of Theatrology (part of an university) about her (in Macedonian). Active singer for 20 years. Pavel Vozenilek 01:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
As I said there was no mention of her anywhere on the English language 'Net other than the afore-mentioned wiki-originated mirror sites which all contained the identical info. and photo. Suggest that if she is genuinely notable then an article for her be created in Macedonian, and probably Serbian and Croatian as well; there is no notability in English-language philology as not even her death warranted a mention in any obit, and the NYT rarely misses the passing of a diva. Pugnacious 11:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
not saying she's important necessarily, but the policy is that enWP covers the entire world equally, and that sources in any language are ok.DGG (talk) 01:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak delete. Seems not to be a hoax per this and this, but that just tells us she was an admired member of a particular company. I find absolutely nothing else on her (and the "Kosmix" link is just some kind of spam-mirror). If something appears showing she was notable in a formal sense I could change my vote.--Dhartung | Talk 02:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
    Just wanted to mention that she was born Marija Mirčov, and is also known as Marija Mircov-Skalovska and Maria Mirchov-Skalovska. That being said, there is no info in English aside from the identical info everybody has already seen. I see now and cede that this is not a hoax, but I believe it is a vanity piece b/c it is essentially singling her name out of dozens of other names in the ballet and music troupes where her name is found. Stand by my delete vote given dearth of info and vanity implications. Pugnacious 12:54, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Weak keep. I've read the mk:Марија Скаловска, apparently a copyvio of Macedonian National Theatre page. The bottom line is that she acted between 1952 and 1975, and then retired. She also received the National Award of "11 October" for life achievements in 1979. That being said, I doubt that that deeper sources could be found (unless someone digs news archives from 1970s), but I don't see why the MNT page shouldn't be trusted. But essentialy, she's one of forgotten opera stars. Duja► 11:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • ...and, btw, she was most probably wife of Todor Skalovski, equally short stub. Duja► 11:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete: per agreement with User:Dhartung. Given the almost complete lack of information provided by the creator of the stub regarding her career, roles played, etc.
I see the page to which User:Duja refers, but it should be translated just to see if her roles were in any way notable. Being "most probably wife of Todor Skalovski" doesn't cut it either; Skalovski's article should be deleted on the exact same grounds as his "probable" wife unless both articles get some valid references. Watchingthevitalsigns 11:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. The text on en: has only very little value. We should wait until someone cleans up and translates the Macedonian version. Pavel Vozenilek 13:46, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. The information at establishes notability. Being a stub article is not a reason for deletion. Nuttah68 08:16, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I would say being a stub article is subject to removal if the info. in the stub cannot be confirmed, much less expanded or updated based on a consensus. Watchingthevitalsigns 14:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Nuttah68 provided a Macedonian link for Todor Skalovski's article, but it appears to be an invalid link (I got an error message every time I tried to access it, but maybe that's my ISP). The website in question makes no mention of either artist, nor does it have an internal search engine, when I last checked (30 seconds ago), but I hope somebody lets me know if I got any of this wrong.

The Macedonian Institute of Theatrology link given earlier confirms the information given in the article. Nuttah68 14:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Not in English, and per User:Pavel Vozenilek, who voted to delete (see above), not adequately. Watchingthevitalsigns 14:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
There is no requirement for references on Wikipedia to be in English, which has already been mentioned in this discussion. Pavel's comment appears to be delete because it is a stub, which we have already covered. The information at the Macedonian Institute of Theatrology goes beyond what is in the article, including details of her 20 year career and national awards so I don't understand your 'not adequately' comment. Nuttah68 14:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
How can anyone rely on the Macedonian Institute of Theatrology if they don't understand what it says? Pavel knows what he is talking about since he appears to understand the language somewhat. If anything Marija Skalovska's stub should be created in the language in which all info pertaining to her exists. Watchingthevitalsigns 14:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll try again, policy at WP:V does not disallow non English language references. I dare say most people do not understand the references for quantum theory, that does not mean they cannot be used as reference. Being a stub is not a reason for deletion. The information at the Macedonian Institute of Theatrology establishes notability and backs up this article. Nuttah68 14:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I know that non-English language references are allowed, but usually their gist has been translated and incorporated into the body of the article, and are there as source material. I continue to hold that each case should be decided individually and/or by consensus, since you are so fond of quoting policy, keep WP:IAR in mind. Watchingthevitalsigns 16:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: I do not argue that Skalovska is not notable. My opinion is that this poor quality stub would be better deleted and we should wait until someone translates the text from Macedonian. Give the future editor clean desk - having such a stub could be quite discouraging. Pavel Vozenilek 00:36, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.