Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Margarethe Zinndorf

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep --Selket Talk 14:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Margarethe Zinndorf

Margarethe Zinndorf (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

record superceded R Young {yakłtalk} 23:44, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

More detail: this case is/was a 'placeholder' as the 'world's oldest person.' However, we now have evidence that Ms. Elizabeth Kensley of the UK was the actual titleholder (being 109) and thus this page is no longer relevant and will be 'orphaned.'R Young {yakłtalk} 23:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment "Margarethe Zinndorf" when entered with the quotes has 144 hits on a google website search. Also, the article seems to be well-integrated into a template system for the old age record-holders. If it goes does the template need to be dismantled. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 23:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment True, this was not a 'SPAM' or 'JUNK' article...but it was a 'placeholder' article. Now that we have an older person to replace Mrs. Zinndorf, I'm not sure if we still need her article. The same goes for Kiet Portier-Tan which could also be deleted. I'm all for keeping historical placeholders, but these were only recognized for about 2-5 years. Regards 68.211.77.10 00:43, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Well: both Portier-tan and Zinndorf were still their country's recordholders at the time, which is notable nevertheless. Extremely sexy 15:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment This case is actualy very simple. I edited the article as Guinness never awarded her the oldest person in the world title. Just the people who didn't know of the Guinness 1965 edition book presumed she was oldest.

Comment. The records-collection process can be dicey. In 1988, Guinness had awarded the "oldest living person" title to Orpha Nusbaum, 112..only to have several older claimants emerge. To be more correct, Margarethe Zinndorf was listed in the 2005 Guinness Book, and so was recognized by Guinness then. It was a case of the 'left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing'. People working at Guinness in 2005 weren't the same people from 40 years earlier, and the pre-internet age means that much early information remains unincorporated into the system. It may be that additional early cases will emerge (for example, does anyone have a 1964 Guinness Book?).R Young {yakłtalk} 05:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

And since she is still the verified 2nd oldest person in the world list, her status on deletion should be parallel to all other second-oldest-person-in-the-world article biographies that did not become the oldest person in the world. If you want to see a list of second oldest persons in the world, you can consult with the updating http://www.nealirc.org/Gerontology/Since1955.html for other people parallel to Margarethe Zinndorf. Neal 05:25, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment. I don't agree with that. Note that the 1960's records were sort of a 'shoestring' effort, whereas today we have very large datasets. Second-oldest today means a lot more. to be the second-fastest of 100 participants in a race means more than being the second-fastest of five participants--and what if you only had two entries? Would finishing second and last then mean as much as finishing second of 100?R Young {yakłtalk} 05:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Strong keep. As per my own comment and also Neal's. Extremely sexy 15:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep, as notable for oldest person in her country at the time. Notability of old people is not just contingent on their being the oldest in the world. Maybe she can be a place-holder for her country, with the rest to be filled in as and when per Eventualism. Jdcooper 03:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 02:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep Interesting question--successive record holders, trend expected to continue. Do we include them all? Yes, on the same principle that we include successive record holders of sporting events. The time for a race is expected to continually decrease, and we do include them all. N is permanent. WP is subject to recentism in adding articles, but we haven't yet started deliberately deleting the earlier notables. . DGG 19:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.