Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mall sainthwar part one

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was lets have another AfD, shant we? --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mall Sainthwar

Not notable. Only one google hit for name. Creator removed prod, is civil but cannot provide other sources. Possible original research. Please also note Mall sainthwar rajputs redirect first created by author as a copy.  _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  21:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep

Dear Moderators of Wikipedia.org

The details mentioned about the ‘Mall Sainthwar’ community are based upon the facts and is a genuine one and in my humble opinion should not be deleted at all. This is evidenced by a strong community presence of over ‘1.2 million’ people residing in the Eastern Uttar Pradesh and Bihar and they originally belongs to the Rajput clan of Kshatryia's. ‘Mall Sainthwar’ community is prominently recorded in well known history books like Aaeene Akabari, Tujjak Jahangiri etc. which, if needed, we can supply for your verification too.

I would like to kindly request the Wikipedia.org moderators to first verify the facts with good resources before arriving to a conclusion to delete this article.

Kind Regards

Pradeep

pk_shubhi@yahoo.co.uk

Phone No. - +0044-7793962960

High Wycombe, BUCKS, UK

• Keep

Dear Sirs,

History of Mall and Sainthwars which is written here is based on many books written by Historians on 'Type of Rajputs/Kshtriyas' in India and mainly in Purvanchal comprising of Eastern Uttar Pradesh and Western Bihar. Existence of Mall kingdom can be seen in ancient India. Mall are Visen rajputs while Sainthwars (or sihatwars) are basically migrants from western part of India. Detailed can be seen in AINE-AKBARI which gives name of villages where they settled, their original place alongwith their sect. Population of both rajput sect is around 8-9 lakh as per census of India and they are found in 6-7 districts of Uttar Pradesh & Bihar in India.

Literatures are available on these rajput clans wriiten in Moghul period like Aine -Akbari and British records which shows the existence of this great rajput clan.

So please verify before deletion.

regards,

jay singh

jaysingh_r@yahoo.co.in

phone no - + 91 09322697836

Mumbai -400080, Maharashtra , India

• Keep

Dear Moderator of Wikipedia

The details mentioned at the wikipendia about the MALL SAITHWAR community is a genuine one and should not be deleted at all. This is strong community of more than 12 lakh people residing in the Eastern Uttar Pradesh and Bihar and belong to the Rajput clan of Kshatryia's. It has strong hold in cities of Uttar Pradesh namely GORAKHPUR, DEORIA, BASTI, SIDDHARTANAGAR, PADRAUNA, KUSHINAGAR, MAU, AZAMGARH, VARANSI, ALLAHABAD, KANPUR, EASTERN AND WESTERN BIHAR. The authencity of this community as a caste can be verified in Gazzeters of Government of India and also from the land records Uttar Pradesh Government. Kindly look into the matter and as a matter of expectation it would be unwise on the part of wikipendia team to move ahead for deletion without any prior verification as such.

For any clarificatins and details for historical accounts, kindly get in touch with me as well.

19:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

ALOK SINGH

09868877099

aloksingh_07@yahoo.com

Uttar Pradesh (India)

Currently residing in New Delhi.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Aloksingh 07 (talk • contribs)

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Dear Sirs,

It is not my orginal rasearch but based on lots of history books (In Hindi Language)of India. This is a 5 to 6 lakh strong community residing in eastern part of U.P. stae of India. I can give you name of hindi books of some prominant writer or if you permit me , I can send these books to wikipedia office by postal mail for your perusal. It will be unfortunate if you delete itwithout verifying it thoroughly.

Regards

Shalendra Singh

Singh_shalendra06@yahoo.co.in

+91 9415875685

+91 551 2200777

U.P. IndiaShalendrasingh 15:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep

I belong to this community and what ever written is correct to my knowledge. I know books and publish matters are the proof but it is not always possible to get in the English language. If you refer the history of Maharana Pratap great warrier and king of India, he belong to our community. It is small but very strong community in India. This mission started to educate our clans in all parts of the worlds. Kindly refer this link you can find the proof of existance [1] This site gives all the info and population spread.

I request you to consider the case and remove this article form deletion.

Regards Ajay Singh from Bangalore India +91 9341309636

Ajaysingh76 19:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)ajaysingh76

• Keep

The article is very genuine and represent the history of prestigious rajput clan. The article deserve to be at wikipedia. It is going to get a big traffic to wikipedia (out of aroung 2-3 Million people of this community). So it is in the favor of Wikipedia also.

Best Regards

Narendra Pratap Singh, Delhi, India —Preceding unsigned comment added by Npsingh (talk • contribs)

• Keep

Hi,

Mall - Sainthwar Community name is also mentioned in following books

1)Aaeene Awadh

2)Aaeene Akabari part 2

3)Tujjak Jahangiri

4)Muntarkab Ultavarikh part 2 ...these books were world famous and were written during Mughal- Period which came into the history of Medieval India.

I request you to reconsider your decision of deletion of the article posted.Kindly let me know what kind of proof I should provide you, So that we can also be part of wikipedia-a great site.

Regards

-Chandreshwar Rao

IIT MADRAS

Chennai -36

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Chandreshwar.rao (talk • contribs)

• Keep

Dear Moderator,

As the detail given in mall-sainthwar community was based on the fact.This community makes a major part in east Uttar Pradesh and some parts of Bihar.Also they have a great history.

So, I request u to reconsider ur decision of deletion the article without any solid ground bais.

Regards

-Pawan Kumar Singh

728,IIT Madras

Chennai-36,

india

• Keep

Marriage this is the best thing to answer about the proof of this article as well as this community.Now it is easy to marry in other community ..may be easy. But in older time do you believe that a person belongs to Saithwar Mall community can marry in other community???[In normal way to any community in India was it easy to marry in any other community?].

This is what i wanted to explain that from olden time there are "n" number of marriages which can answer itself as a proof.

Community is haing strength of more than 12 lakhs.

For any clarification contact me.

Regards

Shashi Shekhar

shashishekharn@gmail.com

09343826707

• Keep

This is one of the purest races of Rajputs. In ancient past, there were many powerful kingdoms having rulers from this community e.g. "Mall Rashtra",etc. In medival period also, there were many reputed and strong princely states like Padrauna, Dughara, Pali, etc.

It is a very good written article about "Mall Sainthwar Rajputs". Great Work!!

Ravi Singh

(9818136861)

• Keep

The article is very genuine and represent the history of prestigious rajput clan. The article deserve to be at wikipedia. It is going to get a big traffic to wikipedia (out of aroung 2-3 Million people of this community). So it is in the favor of Wikipedia also.

Regards

nripendra singh

nripu2002@yahoo.co.in

mobile no - 09869441693

• Keep

To , the wikipedia.org : from Shalendra Singh, Gorakhpur, U.P., India

Eye Opening Facts About Sainthwar And Mall Rajputs

Some representatives of Sainthwar community gave many applications in the court of Collector, Gorakhpur in the year 1942. The copy of that application is as follows

In the Court of Collector Gorakhpur, District Gorakhpur, U.P. India

Subject: Correction of papers in matters of caste

Sir,

H’onably and respectfully the petitioners beg to bring following few lines for your kind consideration and favorable orders :

(1). That the Gorakhpur district beside the adjoining districts is widely inhabited by the people generaly known as Sahatwars or Sainthwars. They are also written as such in caste column in Government papers.

(2). That the said Sainthwar Rajputs are the descendents of grand Rajputs whose original capital was Sahat in Gonda District. The mention of Sahtwar rajputs is to be found in Aine Akabari* on pages 93, 151, 314 etc. The Sahat rajputs have also been mentioned in Tod’s Rajsthan.( * “Aine Akbari” is famous book written Abu al-Fazl ibn Mubarak, Vizier of Mughal Emperor Akbar the great * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar and the author of “Akbarnama” refer your own site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu%27l-Fazl_ibn_Mubarak & http://www.the-south-asian.com/Dec2000/Akbar.htm

(3). That among the people generally known as Sahatwars there are other sections of Rajputs who are incorrectly termed as such. They are Khagis, Thakurais, Mohits, Karkotaks, Dovis, Bishenmall, Gaharwars, Mohatas, Soharas, Mangras, Pushkars, Bellas, Bhathis, Uskas, Barhajas, Bais, Sahajs, Rawals, Kotharies, Rajpali, Khutahania, Barwas, Pundaris, Darwa, bhakhars etc. who are scattered over whole of the district. Thus the word Sahatwar though really comprising a part is by misnomer used for various independent deferent sects of Rajputs mentioned above. The mention of these various sub caste of Rajasthan is to be found in Tod’s Rajasthan and Aine Akbari* as well.

(4). That the said Saithwars and other Rajputs mentioned above being Kshatriyas*, it is also necessary and befitting to their position and status that they should be entered as Kshatriya in caste column in Govt. papers for the want of which they have to suffer many difficulties.

(5). That the paper of whole Gorakhpur Tehsil has been corrected. On the above grounds in the matter of the caste by the order of SDO sadar dated )*/1942 through which the caste of Sainthwar has been substituted by Kshatriyas instead of Sainthwar in the caste column. The copy of which is attached here with.

(6). That the petitioners have been authorized to move this application on the behalf of the whole community in Gorakhpur district by a special resolution, the copy of which is attached here with. SO, it is humbly requested that your honor may be pleased to order the correct papers in Khesaras and Khataunies in matter of caste so that in the column of caste the word Kshatriya may be substituted in place of Sainthwar, with the title of “Singh” in all the villages of the Gorakhpur district except tehsil Gorakhpur for the correction of the letter has already been made by the order above referred.

Thakur Jainath Singh & Other Petitioners

Sign. Jainath Singh, Sign Sarvan Singh, Sign Ganga Bux Singh , Sign Bansi Dhar Singh , Sign Thakur Mahatam Singh

Seal

Court of Assistant Collector & Magistrate

Distt. Gorakhpur

(True copy Sd. Inillegible, Head Copyst, Collectorate, Gorakhpur, Date 12/11/1942)

References : ( * “Aine Akbari” is famous book written by Abu al-Fazl ibn Mubarak, Vizier of Mughal Emperor Akbar the great * (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar) and the author of “Akbarnama” refer your own site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu%27l-Fazl_ibn_Mubarak) and (* http://www.the-south-asian.com/Dec2000/Akbar.htm)

Kshatriya * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kshatriya

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Dear Moderator,

It is good to see the things here related to mall-sainthwar community. It will be very helpful to oneline viewres...

JGS

IIT Kanpur

This is the true copy of the order passed by the District Collector ==

COPY OF ORDER

In the court of E.D.C. Moss Esquire, I.C.S. Collector, District Gorakhpur

Nature of Case : Miscellaneous application

Miscellaneous application of the Sainthwars of Gorakhpur district except Sadar Tehsil for correction of Papers in matter of caste i.e. their names must be written as Khastriyas.

Decided on 12/11/1942.

COPY OF ORDER

Action should be taken in accordance with orders of Government. Entries to be made as applied for.

Sd. E. Dc. V. Moss, I.C.S. Collector, District Gorakhpur 12/11/1942

Informations submitted by :

Shalendra Singh, +91 9415875685,

C-103/61-B, Near Ramgarh Lake,

Gorakhpur-273012, U.P., India

59.94.113.148 14:13, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep per the above reasons

1. Please note that Indian History is not found in the net in the same magnitude as European or American History.
2. Also most of the Indian magazines (dailies, weeklies) do not have a online version.
3. Another factor is that the vernacular (Hindi, Tamil etc) magazines use different fonts and is not searchable by Google
4. Another problem is the use of different spelling for the same name. For example, my town is referred to as Tuticorin, Thoothukudi, Thoothukkudi, தூத்துக்குடி etc. You can get the complete picture only if you search all these. Even then since most of the matter is not online, you may not even get one hit

If something does not turn up in Google, it does not mean that it is non-notable for the above reasons.  Doctor Bruno  00:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.