Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MTD Studios

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete all, after discounting single purpose-accounts. --Sam Blanning(talk) 15:10, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MTD Studios

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Non-notable independent film company. Google search for ("MTD Studios" -wikipedia) returns 512 hits (mainly directory listings or self-referential). No 3rd party press mentions or reliable sources. Fails: Wikipedia:Notability (companies and corporations)

I also suspect that this article is a vanity article self-writen by the head of the company Michael Thomas Dunn, since both these articles along with those for his films were all written by the same user Dodgem4s (talk • contribs) or anonymous IPs. So in light of this evidence, I'm also nominating the following for deletion:

  • Alone and Restless - Google hits for ("Alone and Restless" "Michael Thomas Dunn" -wikipedia) = 168
  • Black Zone - ("Black Zone" "Michael Thomas Dunn" -wikipedia) = 81
  • Midnight Conflict - ("Midnight Conflict" "Michael Thomas Dunn" -wikipedia) = 174
  • Steel Legends ("Steel Legends" "Michael Thomas Dunn" -wikipedia) 64
  • The Standoff - ("Michael Thomas Dunn" -wikipedia) = 107
  • Vixen (film) - ("Vixen" "Michael Thomas Dunn" -wikipedia) = 51

Most of the returned links are either directory listings, or self-promotional (eg. YouTube trailers). Fails: Wikipedia:Notability (films) since none of these films have:

  • "been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the film and its creators/producers"
  • "has received a major award for excellence in some aspect of filmmaking"

Most importantly, Fails: Wikipedia is not a soapbox. --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  05:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

ResponseAll of these objections are wrong -- here are some 3rd Party Sources that prove most of these objections incorrect (Alone and Restless, Black Zone, Out of Time, etc.): -DodgeM4S [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

However, I do believe the "Vixen" title should be deleted. That film was supposed to start filming here in July and it never happened. It should be deleted and I tried unsuccessfully to do so. -DodgeM4S

  • Delete per nom. --Daniel Olsen 06:13, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per given reasons -Elmer Clark 06:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete all, nonnotable films/studio NawlinWiki 11:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom. *drew 14:26, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete all per nom. Another wonderful Netsnipe collection. GBYork 17:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Since Dodgem4s (talk • contribs) has not contributed to Wikipedia since 19 May 2006, notice of this AFD has been emailed to <marketing at sinisterfilms.com> --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  17:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep I'm not Michael Dunn. I am DodgeM4S (John White) and the author of this content. I did copy images off the official sites and cited them. While MTD Studios is your judgement call (don't really know what defines non-notable), the feature films "Black Zone" and "Alone and Restless" are significant films shot in this area (Central Florida). I also believe that Dunn is a rising star. I submitted these articles to Wikipedia and the links to other Wikipedia pages (that seemed to annoy). Sorry if I ticked anyone off, but I still believe these articles are relavant... and I believe not a single article violates the wikipedia agreements: every submission was written in the most neutral, approriate, accurate manner that I was capable. I don't believe I violated any copyrights and the content is significant info for the regional film industry (Orlando, Florida). I will add additional content or edit my existing contributions to meet your criteria if neccessary. -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dodgem4s (talk • contribs) 18:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC).
rm incorrect use of Template:db-author by Dodgem4s (talk • contribs)
  • Keep As a primary author of the content, I will make whatever changes to make the content appropriate for Wikipedia. But again, to reiterate -- there are already many links to third party sources that are listed within these nominated page for deletion that confirm the accuracy and significance (and violate no Wikipedia guidelines) of the respective submissions. All of these contested projects are currently listed on The Internet Movie Database (a third party source -- and the world's most comprehensive movie database). It was one of the main sources of my research and cite it throughout. The company also meets the Company Notability Guidelines (companies and corporations) -- it is currently among the most productive studios within the Southeast United States. And an objection was made to Michael Thomas Dunn being referenced as a notable alumni of the University of Central Florida wikipedia page. Well, Officially from the University of Central Florida Film Program web site (http://film.ucf.edu/links_webpages.php) he is listed as a notable alumni -- so I am going to once again add his name to notable alumni on the UCF page. Not only is it a third party source, but its from the official site of the College mentioned. I think this is all just a mistake or someone's personal agenda. But the content belongs on Wikipedia. I think I have proven every objective wrong or moot. He also fails to prove that it violates "Wiki is not a Soapbox" as there are no political slant listed in any of the documents.Dodgem4s
  • keep As a UCF student, I find it sad that the person who signed this AFD has contributed no content of his own. Instead he joined wikipedia to simply delete other contributions. If that doesn't raise warning bells, I don't know what else does. He's just a troll looking to flame people.¶
— Possible single purpose account: Jennyangel97 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
  • Don't Delete I have added some content to the sites in the afd so its not just from one source. over time i contributed as anonymous...... since people are getting so upset about anonymous contributions i just registered sorry :(
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Goldenknight07 (talk • contribs) .
  • Comment: I am appalled by the use of single purpose accounts to remove the comments of other editors: Jennyangel97 (diff) and Goldenknight07 (diff). Do you honestly think you could get away with such underhanded tactics? You have been warned repeatedly not to remove comments. Consider this is your FINAL warning. Further removal of comments may lead to bans. --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  08:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: I talked about this AFD on the UCF talk forum and have also invited my friends to get involved -- but I have no control over what they choose to do. So let's debate -- still no responses from any of my rebuttals. reliable sources. PASSES: Wikipedia:Notability (companies and corporations) -- Orlando Business Journal, Arizona Republic Newspaper, New York Times, and the Hollywood Reporter all prove this accusation wrong. Passes: Wikipedia:Notability (films) since none of these films have: "been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the film and its creators/producers" -- These films are listed on IMDB, AllMovie, MSN Movies, etc. etc. etc. Most importantly, PASSES: Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Not once has any political slant been quoted from any of these pages mentioned in the AFD. Dodgem4s
  • Reply: Before I go on, please follow the established formatting. It's a pain having to clean up comments every time when you cut other people's comments in half and indent in random places. And use 4 '~' in a row to sign so your comments are timestamped. OK. Now to the meat of things, where are the links to "Orlando Business Journal, Arizona Republic Newspaper, New York Times, and the Hollywood Reporter" in the article for MTD Studios that explicitly mention the studio and not just your name? So far you haven't produced an article on "MTD Studios". All I've seen are syndicated listings and synopsises from the All Movie Guide which has a self-submission policy [8] and disqualifies it as a method for determining notability. As for WP:SOAP, Wikipedia is not a soapbox or a vehicle for propaganda and advertising (note the bold part). --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  17:59, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Reply: Fair enough, the Arizona Republic Newspaper Article/Interview is no longer listed on their web site since it was published more than 90 days again. The Orlando Business Journal Interview is located here (you need to scroll down to the second page for the Michael Thomas Dunn interview entitled " Indie drama to feature multiple technologies" -- a story on Titan A.E. is on the first page) [[9]] The Hollywood Reporter Article is here (requires membership): [[10]]

The New York Times Brief/Review is here: [[11]]. Most newspapers seem to delete their articles after a couple of months so there aren't a lot -- and the mainstream media sources don't generally cover a lot of independent film. As for the "Soapbox" comment -- I don't see the listed films are advertisements/They are synopsis content pieces. DodgeM4S (talk

  • Delete per nom. Tsimshatsui 15:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Reply Please post a reason why -- since all your previous complaints have already been discredited. DodgeM4S 08:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: I'd also like to add that all these flagged articles were not written to stand by themselves. These are all supplemental articles written for the comprehensive history of the Florida Film Industry that I also authored. DodgeM4S 08:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Reply: I would like to make a very important point. The WP:CORP guidelines do not even apply to "MTD Studios." It is a place, not a company or corporation. Perhaps I didn't word that properly in these wiki pages or the IMDb listing has lead to some confusion -- but there is no company with that name. It is a shooting location much like the city of Orlando or Miami. I think it is a notable landmark in Lake County, Florida -- since it is the only film production site in the county. I'd also like to point out, 4 individual production companies have production offices located there -- including Gator animation and Velocity TV (none of the 4 companies are listed as individual pages on wiki -- so not a single instance that violates the WP:CORP guidelines). Again, I will make any corrections deemed necessary, just let me know what needs to be fixed. -DodgeM4S 06:01, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: Alone and Restless was the first feature film produced by MTD Studios in 2004. That implied to me that MTD Studios was more of independent film company than a facility. In my honest opinion, all the separate articles on the movies should be deleted since they have haven't received enough coverage or critical acclaim in the press to be considered notable. However, I would be willing to endorse keeping MTD Studios as part of a series of articles on the Florida Film Industry which to me would be a notable article. I suggest that you could probably merge all the above listed movies into a section on the production history of MTD Studios. --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  13:41, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Reply Yeah, it was a little unclear -- it should have read: AAR was first feature produced at MTD Studios.

As for merging the articles: I think it is a great idea for most of the individual shorts/documentaries. I will begin the process of merging Steel Legends and The Standoff. However, I think the 2 feature films Alone and Restless and Black Zone may deserve individual coverage (these were large projects in the area). Although, I think the Midnight Conflict short might merit its own article (at least for UCF film program background) since its success prompted the program to allow Digitally Shot (DV) projects in their curriculum -- which had previously been excluded (the film school used 16mm film exclusively until 1998). Here is the updated MTD Studios with the merge. -DodgeM4S 10:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)<

  • Comment: I've cleaned up the merge a bit. So now, I believe these three pages should be deleted:
  • DELETE: Steel Legends - Redundant Content with MTD Studios
  • DELETE: The Standoff - Redundant Content with MTD Studios
  • DELETE: Vixen (film) - Film Has Gone Into 'Turnover' -- Future Production Info of a Cancelled Project


I think the other pages are satisfactory. Does anyone see any obvious problems with the other pages? -DodgeM4S 11:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.