Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2006 November 3

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Dakota 00:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] East Doncaster Cricket Club

Well, if Wiki adminers have determined precedent for like sporting clubs, any retort I can offer appears to be a waste of time. However, a couple for your consideration...

Links to the area (Doncaster or East Doncaster) discuss schools, community groups & sporting clubs based throughout the area. Is it not logical for these clubs to then have a wiki presence??

The club has a significant history in the area, which has been documented extensively, and is currently being prepared for release in book format.

The club effects hundreds of individuals & families on a weekly basis.

I don't see the point in ignoring sporting associations that play a prominent part in a local community, and limiting a wiki presence to those that reach a specific "grade". It's easy to state that a club is "Not notable", but by whose reckoning does this apply??

Other than following wiki guideliness that have already been established, I don't think the arguments noted for deletion so far, are at all contructive.

Kind regards, Heater

This cricket club in is not notable - it is not even at the standard of the Melbourne grade cricket, which is one level below first-class cricket, but is only a team which competes in a lower level in the eastern subregion of Melbourne. It is just a weekend sport club. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 23:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete article fails to state notability. Cbrown1023 00:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Is there a guideline for this? Fouded in 1886 is a bit of a claim to notability, but only four articles on Newsbank in 120 years (3 local) isn't that impressive. Provisional delete. ~ trialsanderrors 01:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Living a hundred year old home doesn't make the home notable. Why would it for anything else? Arbusto 04:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete: Many non-league English football clubs are as old this one, and we're agreed that they're not notable. -- Bpmullins 14:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. No evidence of notability such as participation in main Melbourne grade cricket competition or state/Australian players. May be worth a brief mention in the East Doncaster article. Capitalistroadster 01:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 01:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete sad but true, not notable †he Bread 23:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Ezeu 00:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Huemer

Associate professor; the article makes strong claims of notability which I'm unable to confirm. An ISI citation search puts his most-cited paper at 15 citations. Everything else is in the single digits. ~ trialsanderrors 20:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

delete however there are a ton of these almost but not quite notable in the category Objectivism scholars in wikipedia. this guy might be one of the more notable ones, but does not meat WP:PROF as best as i can tell. --Buridan 00:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Trialsanderrors 00:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep Associate professor at a major university, with numerous publications in scholarly journals, plus scholarly books. Seems adequate notablitity for a professor. If the artical gets deleted, I hope he remains philosophical about it and keeps editing Wikipedia. Edison 00:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete no notable (WP:BIO) and created by subject (WP:COI). Cbrown1023 00:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as subject is borderline in terms of notability and his creation of the page seems to violate (WP:COI). --Giddytrace 04:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete: a normal—i.e. non-notable—academic who's done some good work, but isn't a major name in his field. Sam Clark 10:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete appears to fail the professor test. Worthy, I'm sure, but I can't find enough reliable secondary sources to ensure neutrality in the article, which is especially necessary since the subject has been involved in writing it. Guy 13:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, it fails Wikipedia:Notability (academics) -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep and cleanup. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jingle Networks

Contested speedy deletion candidate. Listing here for discussion. No vote. Chick Bowen 00:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - At first I saw this as spam (hence my marking it as such.) Looking over it now, I no longer see it as blatant advertising but I still don't see how it's a notable page. Since this is the first wiki article I've voted on, I asked myself if there's any possible situation where this page would be a resource for me, and I don't see how (at its current state) the article can. -WarthogDemon 00:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- The standards for notability of companies are WP:CORP, not personal utility to you. Shotwell asserts below that this company is covered in multiple non-trivial published works, which would, if those works do more than simply mention the company, satisfy the WP:CORP criteria. Uncle G 12:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete clearly spam to me. - Mike | Happy Thanksgiving 03:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment. A LexisNexis search over the last two years brings up articles from the Boston Globe, Associated Press, The Miami Herald, The New York Sun, the Telegraph Herald, and Chicago Sun Times. These articles deal with either the novel business plan or the large amount of startup money from Goldman Sachs & Co. and Hearst Corp. The most recent article was from March 20, 2006. The rest of the LexisNexis results appear to be duplicated press releases. shotwell 03:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Please cite these articles, so that editors can see how in-depth the coverage of this company is in them, and thus whether the WP:CORP criteria are satisfied. Uncle G 12:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Here are just a few

Mary Wisniewski. Will you tolerate ads for free 411 dialing?: New companies put heat on $1-plus fees big players charge, The Chicago Sun-Times, March 20, 2006.

Robert Weisman. Free 411 service has a nice ring, but Jingle's comes with a catch, Boston Globe, December 7, 2005.

Bruce Meyerson. Goldman, Hearst Lead Jingle Investors, Associated Press Online, October 22, 2006.

Carolyn Shapiro. You could pay for directory assistance or you could let advertisers, The Virginian-Pilot(Norfolk, VA.), October 9, 2005.

Deborah Kolben. New Yorkers Giving Jingle Networks a Jingle for Some Free 411, The New York Sun, January 23, 2006.

There are some more, but they are all essentially the same. Some of those stories above were copied by multiple papers. It is important to note that these articles are only about 200-500 words each. I would personally count them as trivial, but I suppose I'm not completely sure. This company does have a novel business plan and did receive a little money from important investors, but that is their only claim to notability whatsoever. Their stock was listed as a hot buy some time ago, but there is nothing else concerning this company other than the investment and business plan. shotwell 16:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment 200-500 words, though small, isn't "trivial" to me since the whole of the article concerns the company in question. I do have to ask whether the five articles contain substantial similarities in content; if that's the case, then it should pass. ColourBurst 17:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment They are all about the large amount of investment money or the novel business idea, and yes, their content is pretty similar. The sources given below by J did not all show up in the LexisNexis search, but the articles I presented have highly similar content. I guess that these all constitute multiple non-trivial sources? shotwell 18:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete NN. Ads/press releases in papers are not the same as notability. Arbusto 04:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment. Unfortunately, users have different standards of "notability" on Wikipedia. I personally feel that an article about a business that provides a unique service is more notable than the List of people predominantly seen wearing sunglasses. Also, there are articles in important news sources about the company. Including this one from an AP Business Writer shown on the CBS news site. Perhaps this passes the notability test for companies as defined on Wikipedia. -J 05:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- That's one non-trivial published work. We need more for WP:CORP to be properly satisfied. Please cite more. Uncle G 12:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Note that the list you mentioned is up for deletion as well, which is why talking about being "more notable" than another article is not a sound plan (which I think is a synonym for "more useful" in your case, even though notability doesn't actually talk about usefulness). The article satisfies, but we need more than one. ColourBurst 15:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete due to lack of multiple on-trivial independent coverage, which makes neutrality impossible to verify. Guy 14:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment. The Jingle Networks press page lists many articles from non-trivial news sources including the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, NY Times, Boston Globe, and The Washington Post. The NY Times article from March 9, 2006 is especially interesting in that it lists some competitors of Jingle Networks such as inFreeDA who operates 800-411-METRO and easy411.com who operates 1-877-Easy411. The easy411 service is not free, but does not have any advertisements. -J 17:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep I didn't read the press articles, but it seems this company has a certain notability to me. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment. The WP:CORP notability criterion that relates to this article is: "The company or corporation has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company or corporation itself." A google search on "Jingle Networks" yields 148,000 pages. A google news search yields 164 news articles (some not necessarily unique). Virtually every major newspaper in the country has at least one article about Jingle Networks. It would be difficult to reason that these sources are not independent. The authors are different as well as the editors and media itself. I doubt that neutrality is impossible to verify in this case unless there is some mass conspiracy of journalists. I claim that it is difficult to dispute that there are multiple independent sources reporting on the company. The question then becomes, are these articles "non-trivial?" Clearly, people have differing views on what is considered trivial. I would argue that the wikipedia criteria for notability defines triviality in a particular way. One guideline is that "media reprints of press releases, other publications where the company or corporation talks about itself, and advertising for the company" should be excluded from granting notability to a subject because they are trivial. Also, "Works carrying merely trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that simply report extended shopping hours or the publications of telephone numbers and addresses in business directories" should be excluded. An in-depth NY Times article does not fall under the domain of triviality according to the two exclusion clauses. Individual users may feel that Jingle Networks performs a trivial service to society or that the business is too small (and in that sense trivial) to warrant a wikipedia article; however, those notions of triviality are not in the spirit of the wikipedia notability criteria. The wikipedia notion of triviality is related to whether the published work itself is trivial in that it is a duplicate of an already existing article, an advertisement for the company, or an article published in a business directory. In that sense the article would really be trivial. The intent of the notability requirement is to prevent individuals from creating articles about their own small proprietorships or corporations. Once a company becomes important enough that it is mentioned in every major newspaper (and sometimes more than once), and the articles present different information from one another, the company has become notable enough to have a wikipedia article. I raise this issue because I believe that we should adhere to the notability and triviality criteria as defined by wikipedia rather than by using personal notions of these terms. -J 23:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. (edit conflict) Multiple non-trivial independent publications about the company (see above) demonstrate notability. The article does need attention to stop reading like an ad, the lead in particular, but this isn't grounds for deletion alone. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Article needs attention, but meets WP:CORP due to articles. JChap2007 03:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep since it appears to meet WP:CORP. shotwell 22:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep You might want to compare with Jingle Networks and 1-800-free411: the content is almost the same. I am for keeping the former and deleting the latter. Nicolas1981 00:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reinhard Hetze

Claim to notability is was the first man in all South America who held in 1890 the Sabbath of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and kept the Sabbath day holy as the church teaches. I don't know if that is notable enough or even verifiable; searches forReinhardt or Reynaldo yield mostly WP mirrors. ~ trialsanderrors 00:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete probably not notable and if it is, it is too short to explain itself ({{db-nocontext}}). Cbrown1023 00:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete does not seem particularly notable even in the historical context of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. --Giddytrace 03:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Fails notability.--Yannismarou 09:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete not notable or verifiable. JChap2007 03:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy userfy, a brief Google indicates that poethical is associated with Earwood, as if it were ever in doubt. Guy 15:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timothy Earwood

An article on a self-published nn poet. "Timothy Earwood" results in fewer than 30 unique ghits. Likely runs against WP:VAIN: ten of first editor Poethical's 15 Wikipedia contributions have concerned Timothy Earwood. Four of the remaining five contributions have been to Peter Urban and Goju-Ryu, two interestes identified in the article. Victoriagirl 00:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete In addition to a WP:COI or WP:SPA the subject fails WP:BIO and is not notable. Cbrown1023 00:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. utcursch | talk 14:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete all. Alex (Talk) 17:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eric Pfligler

NN hockey player, fails sportspeople guidelines set in WP:BIO, precedent set with discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jovica Zelenbaba Tony fanta 00:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages because they are also former/current Saginaw Spirit players that do not meet WP:BIO and have not been drafted by the NHL or show any notability (although being drafted isn't an instant factor of notability either, I just want to bundle those of similar ilk, others can check the list later):

Aaron Rock
Francois Thuot
Chris Bain
Daniel Borges
Frank Burgio
Rick Caughell
Adam Chapman
Sean Courtney
Chase Crowder
Tomas Csabi
Steve Dix
James Edgar (ice hockey player)
Chris Ferguson (ice hockey player)
Craig Foster (ice hockey player)
Peter Franchin
Adam Gibson
Jesse Gimblett

Tyson Gimblett
Greg Goodnough
Sean Grendus
Thomas Harrison (ice hockey player)
Denis Heroux
Scott Hotham
Dan Idema
D. J. Jelitto
Jesse Jenish
Gary Klapkowski
Jamie Klie
Phil Kozak
Nick Lees
Jeff Luckovitch
Erik Lundmark
Alex MacDonell
Joe McCann

Justin McCutcheon
Mike Pain
Geoff Platt
Tim Priamo
Jason Price
Taylor Raszka
Marc-Andre Rizk
Anthony Soboczynski
Adam Sturgeon
Mike Suggs
Stephen Sunderman
Josh Tataryn (ice hockey player)
Mike Thompson (ice hockey player)
Kevin Tuckey
Nick Vernelli
Steven Whitely

Delete all per prior AfD. ~ trialsanderrors 01:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment I don't think so many nominations at once is a good idea. I think smaller bunches would be a better idea. FrozenPurpleCube 02:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete All I don't like that fact that so many articles are being deleted but the few that I looked at seem to suggest that they will never be more then stubs. Sure some of these people could do something famous (like play in the NHL), but if they never make it past the OHL level then the articles on them are going to be left as a stub. Greba 02:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- I checked them all and every single one is {Name of player} ({birthdate} in {birthplace}) is an ice hockey player. / OHL Priority Selection {team} {round} {year} / {table}. ~ trialsanderrors 02:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Obvious delete of all I didn't check every one, but I trust trialsanderrors, who did. None of them pass WP:BIO, especially considering the notability of sportspeople, so this one is quite clear-cut. -- Kicking222 03:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all per nom and above. shotwell 04:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all per above. MER-C 08:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Having checked a statistically significant 10% of these articles, and seeing as they fail WP:BIO, I vote to delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete and keep. No, wait, delete that one too. Vizjim 10:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment I don't like the fact we are voting for that many articles at a time. After checking 20 of them, they seem to all be stubs. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all per above arguments.UberCryxic 22:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all. I trust trialsanderrors that they're all identical, and given that, I don't have a problem with the giant block nomination. -- NORTH ^talk 00:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all per nominator. The career paths of these guys and the articles' contents are so close that I would not be too concerned about this mass deletion. Ohconfucius 03:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep all because nominator lies about some of them. Geoff Platt, for example, is listed as playing in the National Hockey League in two different seasons, last year and this year. Clearly meets WP:BIO criterion: "Sportspeople/athletes/competitors who have played in a fully professional league". Gene Nygaard 19:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Geoff Platt, Delete the rest. Mistakes do happen, that's why we review suggestions and take actions based on those reviews. Assume good faith. Vegaswikian 22:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment There's nothing to state that Platt played in these leagues in the article, so deleting the stub won't cause too much fuss. Suggest Gene Nygaard considers apologising for the utterly unjustified accusation of deliberate deceit. Vizjim 09:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of schools in South Africa

tagged db-empty but does not really apply to list articles. South Africa is rather a large country and has more than a few schools... Guy 00:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Cbrown1023 01:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep This is an odd objection, as it would seem to me, that the problem isn't with the concept of this page, so much as that it is poorly done. However, since it just started in the past day or so, I'm not inclined to act now. You may wish to see this previous discusion about Kenya for further feedback. I would suggest instead contact the initial contributor and finding out if they intend to develop it, and give them the time to do so. FrozenPurpleCube 01:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete there is nothing on the page about schools. It is a list of cities. Arbusto 03:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

That part has been removed from the article. FrozenPurpleCube 19:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete This has only a few hours of life. Perhaps it should've been prodded instead, giving more time to its creator to add content before having everybody judging his work. Anyway I believe that a list of schools in South Africa would pretty much look like an endless directory, thus not conforming to WP:NOT.--Hús ö nd 04:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean like List of schools? FrozenPurpleCube 19:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. That's pretty much an example of the worthlessness these lists may generate.--Hús ö nd 19:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Per Husond. JoshuaZ 06:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Husond. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 04:12, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. Besides the complete absence of any cogent deletion argument in the nomination, I note that we have comparable lists for numerous other countries such as List_of_schools_in_the_United_Kingdom. These lists are directional aids that help readers find the underlying articles. That holds for South Africa just like the UK. --JJay 05:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Wikipedia is not a directory. This has been pointed out before. Claiming that "complete absence of any cogent deletion argument in the nomination" seems less than accurate in that context. JoshuaZ 06:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. South Africa is rather a large country and has more than a few schools... is not a deletion nomination (but is a rather good argument for creating a list of this type). I expect noms to take the time to spell out their objections cogently in a way that all users can readily understand. AFD is not for riddles or mind games. Regarding your reference to WP:NOT, I would point out that the clauses on that page contain specific detailed examples. They do not fit this list. Instead, lists of lists are perfectly acceptable as per the Wikipedia:Lists (stand-alone lists) guideline, and are quite common. They are meant as navigational aids, not directories. In the present case, the primary school list would be swallowed by the High School list. It therefore makes sense to break them out in keeping with the List of Schools structure.. --JJay 15:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep for now... its simply too new. After a month... if it still is in this pathetic shape... re-afd it and you'll have my delete. ALKIVAR™ ☢ 07:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Alkivar. This is too new to delete, give it a chance to grow. --Myles Long 17:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per FrozenPurpleCube and allow the article some time. Silensor 23:06, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep, useful complement to the category, at least until we have articles on all South African schools. No reason to delete. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete as G1 and A7. Guy 10:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Festival (with bubbles)

I have no idea what event this is describing, but it appears to be some local school event and surely is not notable. Calliopejen 00:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete agree with nom, until the author can explain the subject better in a total re-write. Cbrown1023 01:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete with some regret. Should be sent to WP:BJAODN. --Masamage 01:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete --violates WP:NFT OfficeGirl 03:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Insufficient context, no sources, not enough information to be able to verify it. --Metropolitan90 03:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Something made up at break one day. I can't find the claimed sountrack at AllMusic or Amazon. -- Mikeblas 04:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete (without bubbles). Arbusto 04:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Don't delete Festival is a well-documented festival that was not made up in one day. It involved months of preparation. Please read the entry before making your evaluations. Thx. Festwoman 11:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

~~Do Not Delete!!!~~ [Duplicate vote removed]I would like to begin my comment by requesting a 30 day period during which the article may be re-written, as suggested by Cbrown1023. This article was created as a skeleton to be fleshed out by the greater Festival community. It has not yet exited for four hours and yet there are already calls for its deletion. Such calls appear to be contrary to the community spirit of the Wikipedia. If the reason for this suggestion is that the Wikipedia community is concerned about respectability in the greater community, I appreciate this concern. However I think that allowing enough time for a communal creation of an article is well within the spirit of the project. If, after 30 days, enough members of the Festival community have not deemed it appropriate or worthwhile to commit enough time to Wikipedia to flesh out the entry enough to address the criticisms below, then I agree it should be deleted.

Beyond this request, I will address the specific reasons for recommending deletion. Cbrown1023’s request for a total-rewrite in which the author can explain the subject better is well received. The idea was for one participant to provide the skeleton of the article such that various other participants could more readily add to the substance of the article and clarify it. However, I respect the need to put a limit on such efforts, given the prevalence of lazy communities that start projects on the Wikipedia and are not committed to maintaining them. This is why I recommend the 30 day moratorium on the discussion about whether or not the article should be deleted. If after 30 days the article is not fleshed out, then I too will recommend deletion. With regard to Masamage’s request to send the article to WP:BJAODN, this, again, might seem appropriate to those who do not, for obvious reasons, understand the article, but again I urge a 30 day period during which the article may be fleshed out by the entire Festival community. This article was created in order that those who participated would have an easier time adding content. Although the wiki format is easy to use, if there is an article already created then it is easier to edit. OfficeGirl suggests what may seem like the most appropriate critique of the article with the suggestion that it violates WP:NFT. I was concerned about this particular guideline myself while creating the article and this is why I created the history sub-heading. I do not think that Festival is a violation of these guidelines, and I know several other Festival participants who have read the guidelines themselves and still agree. Furthermore, because I did not want to waste the time of the Wikipedia community, I requested assurance of those Festival participants in the creation of the article prior to their participation in the creation of this article. I have been assured by several participants that, if the article itself were created, they would be happy to add content in order to clarify it. For this reason I request a 30 day period during which Festival participants are allowed to contribute to the article prior to its consideration for deletion. There were several complaints about the lack of sources. I feel very redundant at this point in my request, but I think it best to allow a 30 period in order to list the sources. This is, perhaps, the most tedious task, although one of the more important, or any wikipedian and at times takes more than six hours to perform if it is do be done correctly. Having just read the the wikipedia guidline on verifiability I can assure the Wikipedia editors, whose commitment to the integrity of this project is evident by the number who have turned out to pass judgment on this single article, that two legitimate sources have published articles about Festival and one is in the works, and that if the 30 day wait period is suggested that these publications will be linked to the website. We will verify it, although we do appreciatability Metropolitan90’s link to the page with the verifiability criteria. The fact that Mikeblas cannot find the soundtrack on Allmusic or Amazon seems entirely irrelevant, and the suggestion that this is “Something made up at break one day” is both insulting and unsupported. I take great offense that the conclusions jumped to by this particular Wikipedia-editor. I will assume for the time being that they have been reached by the lack of respect for the wikipedia project that Mikeblas has encountered in the past and a general embitterment to those whose actions undermine the integrity of the project. Consequently I will not make further comment on this ill founded suggestion to delete the article. • I cannot understand Arbusto’s request to delete (without bubbles) unless it is just a suggestion in an overall vote. If so, the vote is respected. If ‘(without bubbles)’ is supposed to provide some reason for this vote, I am left in a state this perplexing by another’s reasoning since I stopped teaching introductory logic courses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Festwoman (talk • contribs)

Speedy Delete per G1. This article is utter nonsense. --Dennisthe2 09:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete per CSD G1. --Richmeister 10:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment AfD lasts about a week, which should be more than enough time to improve any article if needed. Vizjim 10:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
*Speedy delete per CSD G1. Vizjim 10:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was speedy delete. —Mets501 (talk) 17:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sim Masters

Non notable fansite for The Sims. The prod was contested a while back but this one could almost be speedied under A7. Note that the article has been built entirely by anonymous IPs and VampireX13 (talk · contribs). Perhaps not unrelated is the fact that one of the main moderators of the website is a user called Vampire. In any case, the content is mostly unverifiable and most clearly of no encyclopedic value. Pascal.Tesson 01:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy delete per CSD G11 (blatant advertising) and CSD A7 (unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content).--TBCΦtalk? 01:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Delete as per above. Article also fails WP:WEB. Tarret 01:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Another fansite, another wonderful failure of WP:WEB. --- RockMFR 05:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, non-notable The Sims fansite. JIP | Talk 10:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
KEEP!!! IT'S MY FAVORITE SITE!!! No, just joking. Delete. Who's heard of Sim Masters? SupaStarGirl 21:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete clearly fails WP:WEB -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tim Capezzone

Delete: Non-notable musician. Almost zero Google hits. De-prodded by author. —Wknight94 (talk) 01:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, article fails the WP:MUSIC and WP:BIO criterias. Author's claims to notability, PureVolume and mySpace, are considered trivial as anyone with a computer can submit content to said websites.--TBCΦtalk? 02:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Arbusto 04:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per WP:MUSIC Jpe|ob 00:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete: per "A year of gigging in the northeast without a CD and only limited support left the five piece frustrated and eventually led to an indefinite hiatus". Ohconfucius 04:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Punkmorten 20:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In the Twinkle of an Eye

Non-notable book published by vanity press AuthorHouse. "In the Twinkle of an Eye" "Linda Sterling" produces 11 unique Google hits. The book has an amazon.com SalesRank of 356,183. -Elmer Clark 05:31, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Trebor 17:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Whispering 01:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Dismas|^(talk) 01:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Arbusto 04:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personal experience curricula

Delete: Non-notable concept and part of spam party. Google search on the exact phrase brings up only isupportlearning.com. Articles for that web site have also been added by this same author (and been deleted). —Wknight94 (talk) 01:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete-- I surely hope that this is advertising. If it's not, then it's nothing but nonsense. Either way it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. OfficeGirl 03:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Arbusto 04:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above, and something needs to be done with digital native as well. - Smerdis of Tlön 15:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brett Bellemore

NN hockey player, fails sportspeople guidelines set in WP:BIO, precedent set with discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jovica Zelenbaba Tony fanta 00:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I am also nominating the following related pages because they are also former/current Plymouth Whalers players that do not meet WP:BIO and have not been drafted by the NHL or show any notability:

Wes Cunningham
Leo Jenner
Jozek Sladok
Steve Ward (ice hockey player)
Frank Grzeszczak
Zack Shepley
Vern Cooper
Kaine Geldart
Andrew Fournier
Brett Valliquette
Chris Terry (hockey player)
A.J. Jenks
Joe Gaynor

Delete per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eric Pfligler. I saw two with extra one-liners (unsourced). ~ trialsanderrors 07:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 08:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all per trialsanderrors. -- NORTH ^talk 00:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Save because their status in the future is unknown, as most of them are rookies or second years. We can delete them when their hockey career leads to little, but they are a part of a professional team in a professional league. Why are Plymouth Whalers being targeted when I could point out even more players from the Saginaw Spirit and Belleville Bulls? 35.11.236.45 14:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment The Ontario Hockey League is NOT professional. It is AMATEUR. Its players are amateurs. Flibirigit 21:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Rebuttal Not true. The NCAA considers the OHL and all members of the Canadian Hockey League to be professional teams, and playing with a team removes a year of eligibility from NCAA hockey play. Just signing with an agent in the NFL nullifies college elibility, the OHL is a professional league. 35.11.236.45 12:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Counter rebuttal I find it very ironic that the NHL, which is a much larger organization that the NCAA considers the OHL, QMJHL and WHL to be junior/amateur leagues. Wikipedia also concurs with the NHL. These are amateur teams. Flibirigit 13:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all Junior hockey players are not considered notable, no matter which team they play for. Unless the player is considered a very top prospect, for example when Sidney Crosby played in the QMJHL. Flibirigit 21:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Excerpt from Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 April 8#CHL alumni categories: Quote from ccwaters

Clarification: the guideline at WP:BIO states Sportspeople who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in an individual professional sport, or at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States. Articles about first team squad members who have not made a first team appearance may also be appropriate, but only if the individual is at a club of sufficient stature that most members of its squad already have articles. So for hockey players, they are wiki notable if they have played professionally. Of course there are always exceptions like hot prospects (Jordan Staal, Phil Kessel, etc)... ccwaters 20:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

With the OHL being considered a professional league, it would mean that all players could be up. Don't get me wrong, I don't really consider there to be entirely bright hockey futures for all of them, but I can promise that at least 4 will be playing in higher leagues in the next 3 years, at least one of them next year. 35.11.236.45 00:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC) Update: upon further research into the matter, I would make a suggestion as to players to save, from this list, as long other OHL teams are given similar chances to get their prospects "wikiworthy". I would suggest leaving Steve Ward, Andrew Fournier, Vern Cooper, and A.J. Jenks. Among players in the list above, there may be fringe NHL draft picks, but the four I have mentioned will move on. 35.11.236.45 01:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mitchell Waldman

An article on a self-published non-notable writer in clear violation with WP:COI guidelines. Original editor Mitchwaldman has contributed to this article exclusively. Subject fails WP:BIO Victoriagirl 02:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Arbusto 04:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Del. Self-pub'rs n-n.
--Jerzy•t 07:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miramonte Department of Choral Studies

This article does not appear to satisfy WP:ORG, is without context, and violates WP:NPOV. "Miramonte Department of Choral Studies" scores precisely 12 unique Ghits, and "Heritage International Choral Festival" scores 3 unique Ghits. It refers to, and could be a part of, Miramonte High School, but gets no mention whatsoever in latter article, where this article may be suitably be merged in part, if any editor judges content worthy of keeping. Ohconfucius 02:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Weak delete It makes assertions of notability, but these are unreferenced. If notability can be verrified in reliable sources I will change my vote. --Jayron 32 06:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete this department isnt notable. Arbusto 23:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norelle Van Herk

prod was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who asserted that relaity show contestants are inherently notable. After losing this reality show, this contestant has done nothing more notable than failing to win on the show. Mikeblas 03:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, I remember her. I wanted her to win. *sigh*, but not notable enough by herself. Maybe, since a lot of ANTM contestants are being nominated for deletion, we make a List of contestants of America's Next Top Model. Give a brief discription of birth, and general info. Or, you could split the characters in cycles. List of America's Next Top Model Cycle 4 contestants, etc.--andrewI20^Talk 05:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- They really are deserving of their own article. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect Pretty, not article-worthy. Even the navbox only lists the season winners. ~ trialsanderrors 07:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 19:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per all above.UberCryxic 22:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge and redirect to America's Next Top Model since she did not win. Yamaguchi先生 04:27, 4 November 2006
Strong keep. Noted reality contestant, meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO. Known by millions, all reality contestants are inherently notable. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, or mergeto ANTM3 per precedent. Consensus appears to favour deletion of all non-top3 contestants who have not had other notable achievements. Ohconfucius 04:18, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Land Far Away

This is a non-notable community and fails WP:WEB. It is apparently the most well-known community for the Neverwinter Nights game, but this is far from being notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. Currently has an incredibly low Alexa ranking (and has for many years) and very few relevant Google hits. Prod was removed by User:Avraham, saying the community has "hundreds of members" and some screennames of members were used in later games, though this at best is trivia that should be listed on the related game pages.--- RockMFR 03:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep In the NWN world, ALFA is very notable, predating NWN, and having more than a little say in NWN's development as well as other Bioware titles. It is still the most selective and developed 24-7 NWN persistent universe in cyberspace. See it's talk page for more. I could add stuff from personal experience, but that would be WP:OR. -- Avi 03:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete because it fails WP:WEB. -- Mikeblas 03:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - As someone who follows NWN closely, I find it astounding that ALFA thinks it's more 'notable' than , say, CoPaP. In any event, I don't think any PW should be noted in Wikipedia. --In ur base, killing ur dorfs 14:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Doesn't look like it passes WP:V. Wickethewok 19:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete — Fails WP:WEB, is non-notable outside a specific community. M a rtinp23 20:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. -- moe.RON ^{Let's talk | done} 19:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Dakota 22:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Catie Anderson

prod was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who asserted that "reality contestants are inherently notable". After losing on this game show, this contestant went on to have a couple of bit parts on a soap opera, appearing in only two epsiodes. She is more notable than an extra in a movie. Mikeblas 03:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

- Comment obviously, I meant she's no more notable than an extra in a movie. -- Mikeblas 12:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and Zoe. JoshuaZ 06:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect as with the other non-winners. Not even a picture. ~ trialsanderrors 07:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 19:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Consensus takes a while to change. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. Noted reality show contestant, literally kown by millions, certainly received a lot of attention. Meets both the letter and spirit of WP:BIO. They're inherently notable. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. There's no evidence that she is "known by millions"; this argument is literally unsubstantiated and just an assertion at this point. Presumably, the assertion has been made because these "inherently notable" people are appearing on a television show. The television show is not in the top ten of weekly Nielsen ratings [1], so it's hard to jump to the conclusion that a show participant is "inherently" notable when the show itself doesn't draw. The show is tied for eleventh on the night it airs [2], but a little bit of resarch reveals that more people watched Cops reruns [3]. We're not about to start adding articles about each of the "inherently notable contestants" on Cops, are we? Wikiproject:Cops, and so on? -- Mikeblas 12:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per badlydrawnjeff; this may need debate and discussion elsewhere, but the "inherent notability" argument seems valid. --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 17:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Plenty other contestants have been deleted up to now, and consensus appears to favour deletion of those who hav not capitaliised on their 5 minutes of fame on the show, which tends to refute the assertion that all reality contestants are notable. Catie is a case in point: 181 unique Ghits, nothing beyond the usual fansite links, wiki articles and mirrors and blogs. It's time to say goodbye. Ohconfucius 14:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Delete all as obvious hoaxes per WP:SNOW and the several pairs of eyes, below. NawlinWiki 19:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2005 FIFA "D" World Cup

Hoax, there was no 2005 FIFA World Cup, info taken from 2002 World Cup, user that create this article talk page shows he has created several other hoaxes. Coasttocoast 03:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Also nominating for same reason:

"D" World Cup
"D" International Squads

Delete both. Shouldn't they be speedied, since they're hoaxes? -- Mikeblas 03:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hoaxes are not speedy deletable. It takes more than 1 pair of eyes to reliably determine that something is a hoax. This is explained both at WP:HOAX and at WP:CSD. Uncle G 12:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Article creator I is leo has been warned twice before for creating hoaxes (see his talk page). --Charlene 04:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete all and block user Play time is over, children. Resolute 04:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Delete All. Nonsense, hoax. This might even be a close recreation of the Whittaker World cup 2006.--Hús ö nd 05:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete each and every one of them for the simple reason that they don't exist. If only hoaxes were speedyable just for being hoaxes. Not totally sure it's a Whittaker clone, since my recollection of that article involves the Vatican City playing, but it could easily be inspired by it. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 05:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I do recall the Vatican and its actual football team! :-) Anyway the modus operandi here is quite similar, England is once again unbeatable and if this hoax isn't deleted soon enough then I can foresee Portugal losing miserably against Mali. --Hús ö nd 05:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

What's really sad about all of this is that I've done the same kind of thing with other countries and other sports. Offline, of course, but I've done it. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete all and block user before he creates the next obvious "'Double-D' World Cup" article. Wavy G 05:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
'Delete, patent nonsense and hoax. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 07:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Redirect optional. - Mailer Diablo 12:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diane Hernández

prod was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff, who did so because "reality contestants are inherently notable". This losing contestant has done nothing notable after the show. Has just less than 1000 hits on Google. [4] Mikeblas 03:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete this per nom and the reality show it rode in on! Dismas|^(talk) 05:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and Zoe. Would comment to Dismas that the show is in fact notable. JoshuaZ 06:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect as with the other non-winners. Not even a picture. ~ trialsanderrors 07:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 19:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Consensus doesn't change overnight. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  - It may, but here's where the 100 year test comes into play. Ohconfucius 04:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect --Wareq 07:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. Noted reality contestant, meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO. Reality contestants are inherently notable. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to ANTM5 per plenty of precedent, or otherwise Delete. Ohconfucius 04:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Redirect optional. - Mailer Diablo 12:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ebony Taylor

prod was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who assert that realtiy show contestants are inherently notable. After losing on the show, this contestant has done some modelling, but nothing that sets her apart from others. About 1600 hits on Google. [5]

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and Zoe. JoshuaZ 06:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect as with the other non-winners. Not even a picture. ~ trialsanderrors 07:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 19:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Consensus doesn't change overnight. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. Noted reality contestant, meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO. All reality contestants are, in fact, inherently notable. Known by millions. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to ANTM5 per plenty of precedent, or otherwise Delete. Ohconfucius 04:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Dakota 22:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jordan Maxwell

The article is not written very well, but I would like it to be improved on, rather than deleted. Jordan Maxwell's work is very important to the 'research community' (aka conspiracy theorists), and he is cited and quoted by many other writers and lecturers, including Michael Tsarion, David Ike and others. To delete his entry would be to start a trend of removing entries for anyone who dares to question the status quo. Just because the complainant hasn't heard of him, doesn't mean that he is not notable.

Unnotable conspriacy theorist with three books "published" from a PO Box in San Diego, California.[6] Fails notability. Arbusto 03:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. JoshuaZ 06:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete unless reliable independent sources are provided. ~ trialsanderrors 07:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete apears to be a self-professed and self-published "expert". Guy 10:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep Jordan Maxwell is one of few hardcore buffs you will find researching secret societies and fraternal orders.

If you delete _him_ then that's a good precedent to "nominate and destroy" most of those christian preachers, bible colleges and other such organizations that have cropped up on WP as of late; few of these pass the same litmus test. There is too much of Maxwell's work in circulation for him to be dismissed like that. What's more, and most telling is that Arbustoo chose to forget to mention the many documentaries for television Mr. Maxwell has worked on and at times appeared therein in person as well as the many events Mr. Maxwell has been a featured speaker at many venues and has been invited as a guest to many radio shows such as Art Bell / George Noory's Coast to Coast etc. etc.

Many are available on |http://video.google.com&q=jordan+maxwell :

... ...

Just looking at this website at [[7]] it's therefore not just "three books" "published by a PO Box".

I can imagine his work does not sit well with (christian) religionists and other such related organizations and cults, however as I stated in the beginning, as far as notability is concerned, once you delve into subjects such as secret societies and the inner workings of organized religion then there is no way past Jordan Maxwell. Reader 13:02, 3 November 2006(UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.160.230.65 (talk • contribs)

The main issue is whether he meets WP:BIO. If you can show that he meets that guideline you have a much better chance of the article getting kept. The above does not help in that regardJoshuaZ 16:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Naconkantari 17:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per original nom. Fails WP:BIO so badly it's almost funny:

Has NOT been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.
has ONE published work that can be easily found. Hardly notable, Wikipedia is not a library.
The only possible field that this person could be widely recognized as contributing to is whackaloonery, but even then I find little evidence of that (aside from his personal website, which is worth reading for sheer entertainment value. Maybe move it to BJAODN?)
Autobiography and self-promotion are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. FAILED.
Under alternative tests, expandability is very low.

I think Guy hit it on the head by calling him a self-professed and self-published "expert". --Shrieking Harpy ^Talk^|^Count 17:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

(2) is wrong: proof: [8]

(3) an insult does not qualify as a reason to delete his article

(4) but relevance is: [9]

--John.constantine 19:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete, self-promotion. NawlinWiki 19:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete conspiracycrufty failure of WP:BIO. Danny Lilithborne 20:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete not notable enough -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Came to his Wikipedia article to find out about him. Why should this information be hidden from me? --John.constantine 00:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep! If you delete this article I will never search info on Wiki again.--c4tr4t User's first and second edit. (noted by JoshuaZ 06:23, 7 November 2006 (UTC))
Keep If Maxwell isn't notable enough, (really, why?!?!) then we'll need to hold all the people and institution you deem important to the same standard, Arbusto. Jordan Maxwell IS a known and noted person not only on the net but most certainly in that "whackalooney and crufty" conspiracy scene (to borrow from one of your sockpuppets). You might as well also go after people like David Icke then too, laughable as it sounds calling him "not notable". 213.155.74.242 08:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Actually David Icke is a notable kook. He has many books written about him. Major newspapers have interviewed him, etc. JoshuaZ 08:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ashley Black

prod was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who commented that "reality contestants are inherently notable". This contestant lost on the show, then went on to do nothing that set her apart from others in her field. About 700 hits on Google [10]. Mikeblas 03:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are no more notable than contestants on any game show or similar. This individual was already forgotten by the time her article was prodded. Resolute 04:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Resolute and Zoe and nom. JoshuaZ 06:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect as with the other non-winners. Models named ashley are inherently non-notable. ~ trialsanderrors 07:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 19:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Changing consensus doesn't happen overnight. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. Noted reality show contestent. Known by literally millions of viewers, written about in any contexts regarding the show, and likely in many local papers. Meets both the letter and spirit of WP:BIO, and no real reason has been given for deletion. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Not notable, nor memorable, and would fail the 20 year test with years to spare. Redirect to ANTM5 per plenty of precedent, or otherwise Delete. Ohconfucius 04:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Michelle Deighton

prod tag was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who commented that "reality contestants are inherently notable". This contestant lost on the show, then went on to do nothing to set herself apart from her peers. Less than 600 hits on Google [11]. Mikeblas 03:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete reality cruft. Arbusto 04:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Reality show contestants are inherently non-notable. Win something or do something outstanding, then come back. Resolute 04:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Per Zoe. JoshuaZ 06:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect Like the legs, face not so much. In any case, even the navbox only lists the season winners. ~ trialsanderrors 07:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 07:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete reality contestants are inherently vacuous, not notable. But close. Guy 15:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 19:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect --Wareq 07:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep, noted reality contestant. Very well known, meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO. no real reason given to delete. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Not notable, nor memorable, and would fail the 100 year test with decades to spare. Redirect to ANTM4 per plenty of precedent, or otherwise Delete. Ohconfucius 04:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Ezeu 18:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Open University

Unnotable unaccredited "university." I get 2,300 yahoo hits including wikipedia and spam. Should be redirected to the New York Institute of Technology per the more famous program of the accredited school. According to the NY IT article, "the college launched American Open University of NYIT in November 1984." This Virgina unaccredited "school" has nothing to do with the NY accredited program. Arbusto 20:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. The only time an unaccredited "college" should get a Wikipedia article is when they're so well-known that the public deserves a warning. --Aaron 22:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. I agree; this is hardly notable enough to warrant an article. Rayonne 00:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep The university is accredited by some other universities. It is also well-known to the public Muslims in the West. --Islamic 00:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Note: this "university" is recognised by other universities, not accredited by them. Accreditation is a formal process with a specific meaning, and the article clearly states that this "university" is wholly unaccredited.

Delete as not notable. I hesitated when I read the above, but after looking into it, only two universities have an agreement with AOU; one in Sudan, one in Malaysia. AuburnPilot ^Talk 01:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Weak Delete for now. If the authors can support genuine notability, I could consider a keep. Even though its not accredited, I suppose in the current environment, a school that caters to Muslims could have some notability attached. Montco 02:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete: See my response above about accreditation; few Google hits and no claim to notability within the article all point do deletion. --Nehwyn 18:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep Marginal qualification for an article: more Google hits than the average diploma mill. Has students, faculty, and curriculum, has been around for several years, requires a course of study over several years to get a degree which is claimed to be recognized by 2 foreign universites. Graduates could improve their knowledge of the religion for their own self improvement or for employment in a religious enterprise without accreditation. Edison 20:36, 27 October 2006

(UTC)

Please ensure those claims pass WP:V. Arbusto 08:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep. Extensive news coverage in the Washington Post and other sources concerning this school's ties to Saudi Arabia and funding from the Islamic Assembly of North America [12]. The school's founder was deported in 2004 after being linked to extremism. This is exactly the sort of article where you have to look way beyond "google hits". Obviously needs expansion from someone who knows the subject. --JJay 20:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

You bring up a good point. The articles (the three post articles) you cited is in direct contradiction with how the article currently presents itself. Thus, this should be deleted for WP:V issues.

Perhaps if the person named in the articles you mentioned is notable enough for his own wikipedia article, currently he is not, this article could be merged with him. Yet, clearly this minor news event didn't spark enough interest on the people mentioned, and doesn't warrant a separate article on the school. This isnt wikinews. Arbusto 08:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand WP:V. As I stated with my first comment, the article needs expansion from someone who knows the subject. There are clearly a lot of sources available for that expansion. Hence, WP:V can be easily satisfied. Finally, your comment about wikinews is not relevant to this discussion. A school of higher learning that has been newsworthy enough to garner attention from major sources such as the Washington Post more than qualifies for an article here. --JJay 22:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a very similiar argument you made at the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Council of Private Colleges and Universities, which you were the only one to vote keep. If anything ever came of these three 2004 mentions it should be included. However, all you have is three sources that MENTION the "school", but don't devote any space to the school itself. Arbusto 04:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I propose this be deleted and redirected to the New York Institute of Technology per the more famous program of the accredited school.[13] According to the NY IT article, "the college launched American Open University of NYIT in November 1984." This Virgina unaccredited "school" nothing to do with the NY accredited program. Arbusto 04:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak delete followed by redirecting per Arbusto. JJay makes a goog point but the mentions are less than compelling unless more sources can be brought. JoshuaZ 06:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Weak Keep JJay's point is somewhat strengthened by Islamic education in the US, accredited or not, being "per se" a very relevant and controversial topic these days. Stammer 06:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment New user as of 24 October 2006. "Relevant and controversial" not a policy for inclusion. Arbusto 07:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christina Murphy

prod tag was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who wrote that "reality contestants are inherently notable". This contestant lost on the show, then went on to do nothing to set herself apart from her peers. About 600 hits on Google [14]. Mikeblas 04:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality show contestants are not inherently notable, any more than contestants on any other game show. Should we start articles on every contestant on Lingo? User:Zoe|(talk) 04:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Of course not. Lingo contestants don't stick in the public eye the way reality contestants do. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Failing on a reality TV show makes this person no more notable than any other individual who failed on any other game show. Resolute 04:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. The only notable aspect of this article is the DisambigR pointer to the other Christina Murphy: Christina Booth. --Mareklug ^talk 05:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Per Resolution, Zoe and Mareklug. JoshuaZ 06:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/merge/redirect as with the other non-winners. How many more? ~ trialsanderrors 07:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 18:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- As noted elsewhere, consensus doesn't change overnight.
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. Known by millions, noted reality contestant, meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO. --badlydrawnjeff talk 13:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Now's the right time to cull these stubs. Subject would fail the 20 year test with years to spare. Redirect to ANTM4 per plenty of precedent, or otherwise Delete. Ohconfucius 04:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Delete and redirect to America's Next Top Model. Glen 01:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tiffany Richardson

prod tag was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who wrote that "reality contestants are inherently notable". This contestant lost on the show, then went on to do nothing to set herself apart from her peers. About 600 hits on Google [15]. Mikeblas 04:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Failing on a reality TV show makes this person no more notable than any other individual who failed on any other game show. Resolute 04:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Not at all true. Reality contestants are much better known than your typical game show contestant. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep, distinguished herself by being yelled at by Tyra the Horrible. [16] Kidding, Delete/merge/redirect as with the other non-winners. ~ trialsanderrors 07:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same argument to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 16:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect --Wareq 07:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. Noted reality contestant, known by millions, meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO. Inherently notable. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rebecca Epley

prod tag was removed by User:Badlydrawnjeff who wrote that "reality contestants are inherently notable". This contestant lost on the show, then went on to do nothing to set herself apart from her peers. About 1100 hits on Google [17]. Mikeblas 04:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. wikipediatrix 04:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, reality contestants are not inherently notable, and there is neither consensus nor precedent to claim such. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Reality claims as such. Sometimes it just takes us longer to catch up. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete NN reality show contestant, who are not inherently notable.--Hús ö nd 04:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Failing on a reality TV show makes this person no more notable than any other individual who failed on any other game show. Resolute 04:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Resolute, Zoe and Husond. JoshuaZ 06:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete/Merge/Redirect Done? ~ trialsanderrors 07:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. MER-C 10:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Badlydrawnjeff has (unsuccessfully) used the same arguement to contest prev. prod/AfD nominations. (See Bre Scullark, Sarah Dankleman, Kari Schmidt and Kathy Hoxit for prev. discussions on the matter. All resulted in a Delete consensus.) Caknuck 16:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the show page. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per all above.UberCryxic 22:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge and redirect to America's Next Top Model as a minor footnote. Yamaguchi先生 04:29, 4 November 2006 04:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep, noted reality contestant. Meets letter and spirit of WP:BIO, they're all inherently notable. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standing In The Rain

Non-notable song with no claims of notability. I have tried repeatedly to redirect it to the album page, but the article's creator insists on unredirecting, therefore it's time to get the thing deleted altogether. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above and protect. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete and protect seems to have sufficient grounds to do so. Hut 8.5 15:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete or redirect to band's article, since it's a notable band — it's just not clear that this single is notable as a few of their others are. --Ds13 17:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of famous addresses

Prodded and Prod lifted by creator. I fail to see the point of this list. It is always likely to be incomplete. In my view a category structure would do a better job and be much easier to maintain. Delete. BlueValour 04:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, tell me how this is different from List of famous streets or List of the addresses of fictional characters? There are many addresses well known by their address and that's what this list is for. The nominator here apparently didn't read the article nor the talk page because he claims this list is "potentially unlimited" which is almost patently false. This is not a list of famous people's addresses and is no more unlimited than list of famous streets. Cburnett 05:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep It's not indiscriminate so IMO it gets past WP:NOT and BlueValour seems to concede that the information could be converted into a category. So I don't see a valid reason for deletion. Am I missing something? --Mereda 09:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per above. I see the point of this list -- there are articles with addresses as titles. If the list is maintained as such (and it states its criteria at the top) I think it should be kept. Dina 13:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment I'm undecided at this point, but one thing that troubles me is that the criteria here seems rather arbitrary. What constitutes a "famous address"? How is this quantified? Why isn't this a list of famous people's addresses? As it stands I see no reason why Oprah's address couldn't be added here and the text "but not just a list of addresses of famous people or things." removed as this seems a rather arbitrary decision to exclude that information by the article creator. Also, where is the sourcing suggesting these are famous addresses? Is this just an example of "I know it is famous so it should be in this list?"--Isotope23 16:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you not read the talk page? You seem to have completely missed the point. It is not a list of famous people's address. Would you recognize oprah's address as her address? Would the average person know? Doubtful. How many [americans] recognize "1600 pennsylvania avenue" as the white house? The talk page explains this and gives two litmus tests for this and I explained it above. The criteria is not arbitrary as you believe it to be.

I welcome any input (perhaps this could have been done before AFDing it) on how to make this more clear: the addresses here are recognizable when they stand alone. I think 10 downing street, 221B Baker Street, 1600 pennsylvania ave, and 30 rockefeller plaza are excellent examples that demonstrate this. Would you know oprah's address from jay leno's from tom clancy's from leonard nemoy's?

As for "As it stands I see no reason why Oprah's address couldn't be added here". People move and people change addresses. Wikipedia is not a phone book. When was the last time the white house moved? Or the PM of the UK? Did Sherlock Holmes ever move? Cburnett 17:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I read the talk page and I commented there as well. Your point about celebrity addresses is well taken. The problem I still see though is that the addresses you've cited as examples are not sourced as famous, specifically it is not verified in the article that these addresses are famous or well known. I think it is an assumption on your part (albeit perhaps a correct one) that most Americans would recognize "1600 pennsylvania avenue", but what of wider notability? How many people in the world would recognize that as the White House? Does the fact that the White House have an article qualify it as a notable address? What about WP:LOCAL locations that might have significance to the populace of a city and be referred to with their address but are not perhaps generally known by the larger public? I still don't think your litmus test for inclusion is well enough defined.--Isotope23 18:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

1600 Pennsylvania Avenue exists as a dab page (and the name of a movie) and 30 Rockefeller Plaza is a redirect while both 10 Downing Street and 221B Baker Street are actual articles. I'm not a heavy AFD/IFD/etc. participant but "notability" seems to be thrown around a lot in such discussions so I think the existance of an article would be sufficient to say the address is notable. A redirect, to me, says that the address is well known enough to trouble someone to create said redirect (please don't go creating a bunch of redirects to dilute my point :).

I initially set the bar to "famous" to make it a more exclusive list but I, like you, recognized the trouble in labelling them as "famous". If lowering the bar to notability presumed by the existance of a WP article is required then so be it. On looking around 40 Wall Street should probably be added being that it claimed the world's tallest building (albiet for ~1 month). I'm more than willing to "lower the bar" and rename to list of notable addresses and discuss how to make this article work but I still think it's doable. Cburnett 19:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, fair enough... this conversation can continue on the talk page for the article. I think though I see enough potential here that this could be a WP:V, sourced list.--Isotope23 19:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyone who cares to chime in, I've started it off at Talk:List of famous addresses#Notability. Cburnett 19:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - Changing the title to 'notable' would help, defined as having a WP article. I propose to do that unless there are strong objections. The other thing that is essential is to separate the fictional from real addresses. To give the list utility I suggest a move away from country splits to topic splits. For example 'Notable addresses of world leaders', Notable addresses of fictional detectives' etc. If a couple of these were setup and then filled before the next is created that gets over the incomplete problem, and would give the list real purpose. BlueValour 22:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep, needs to have sources cited though. This list passes WP:NOT and its not a piece of indiscriminate information. There is potenetial for the list to grow, and it should stay. --Terence Ong _{(T | C)} 04:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Doesn't everything need to? :) Cburnett 00:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep — plenty of potenetial :) thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 16:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep; nomination withdrawn. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crocker Middle School

~~Contested prod. Non notable middle school. Absolutely nothing sets this one apart from thousands of other middle schools Resolute 04:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)~~ *Delete There is nothing notable about this school. It has no well known alumni, nor is it particularly old. It has no succesful sports teams or clubs that have performed at a notable level. The school has recieved no notable awards. JoshuaZ 07:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Changing to Keep The blue ribbon awards are sufficient claim to notability. JoshuaZ 02:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Abstain from school debates, but I cleaned up the more glaring POV and unsourced problems and stubbed it.--Isotope23 16:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and JoshuaZ. Not like it matters... -- Kicking222 19:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Valrith 23:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge with Hillsborough, California per WP:LOCAL. The town article is pretty short and does mention the school in passing so it makes sense to merge the information in this article there. JYolkowski // talk 00:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep or possible merge with Hillsborough, California per WP:LOCAL and WP:SCHOOLS. Yamaguchi先生 04:46, 4 November 2006
- Comment WP:SCHOOLS seems like it isn't going to become a guideline anytime soon. Multiple editors over the last few days have tried to put a rejection template on it. JoshuaZ 04:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Comment Several school deletionists, JoshuaZ notably among them, have tried to tag WP:SCHOOLS as rejected, when this is simply NOT the case. The fact that WP:SCHOOLS has not reached consensus is part of an effort from those who refuse to cooperate to develop objective standards. The fact that the deletionists refuse to offer an alternative leaves WP:SCHOOLS as the only viable guideline. It's time that folks come to the table to work on a mutually-acceptable standard, rather than putting up with the claim that WP:SCHOOLS is a rejected standard. Alansohn
    - Comment Many "deletionists" have made specific comments about what they find unacceptable in the current proposal. This has been extensively discussed on the talk page. The end result was that none of them occured. If you want I'll make yet another proposal which will be the same as the current one but missing certain items that I already brought up on the talk page. I doubt it will get any consensus either. JoshuaZ 23:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Comment Since I'm getting a bit annoyed at the inaccurate claims that "deletionists" don't ever make proposals, I've added a proposal at User:JoshuaZ/Schoolproposal. See the WP:SCHOOLS's talk page for more details. JoshuaZ 23:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Comment Personally, I don't think using a non-accepted proposal as a guideline is necessarily the best idea... beyond that, calling out the "deletionists" is a bit misleading as there is just as much (and possibly more) opposition to ever working on an accepted guideline by "inclusionists" as well. WP:AGF, but what possible incentive is there for school inclusionists to ever pony up to the table and discuss WP:SCHOOLS when virtually every single WP:V school that is over the "homeschool" threshhold is kept? If I were an inclusionist and I was seeing even Pre-schools kept on a no consensus, I'm not sure I'd be eager to sit down and discuss guidelines...--Isotope23 14:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge per WP:LOCAL. ALKIVAR™ ☢ 07:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge article does not meet the WP:SCHOOLS standard. Deletion of the article, as advocated by nom and JoshuaZ, when it can be the subject of a merge is pure destructive delionist vandalism. Alansohn 22:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)Strong Keep By searching under "William H. Crocker Middle School" (nor just "Crocker Middle School"), I was able to confirm that the school has been honered by the Blue Ribbon Schools Program, the highest award granted to any school in the nation by the United States Department of Education. For all those who have constitently attempted to trivialize this award, Crocker has been recognized not once, not twice, not three times, but on four separate occasions,: in 1982-83, 1988-89, 1994-96 and again during the 2004-05 school year. As far as I know there are only three other schools nationwide that won the award four times from 1982-2002, and I don't see any winners after 2002 who had won three times before. This school is one of about five in the nation to be so recognized. Alansohn 00:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment "destructive delionist(sic) vandalism" is unecessary. Please be civil, we can discuss this calmly while disagreeing. JoshuaZ 23:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Comment You can "get rid" of an article by deleting it or merging it. You chose deletion; Deletion is destruction (sick). Alansohn 00:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Withdraw nomination per Alansohn's research. Turns out this is one of a very small number of schools that is notable. I'll go vandalize and destroy some other article now.... Resolute 01:08, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep per JoshuaZ. --Myles Long 17:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. Multiple examples of notability are given; Blue Ribbon Awards for 1982-83, 1988-89, 1994-96, and 2004-05 as well as being honored at the White House as "one of the four best middle schools in the nation in 1982 and 1989". My hat is tipped to Alansohn for his great work on this article. Silensor 22:58, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete a7, no assertion of notability. NawlinWiki 19:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stage Crew

Unsigned band with no sign of passing WP:MUSIC. Two previous attempt by User:Fan-1967 to speedy it were blocked by suspected sock puppets, Planetispluto and ADE5715 - two first-time editors with no other edits to their name. The band has apparently one self-released album, (no sign on Amazon, and no sign of reviews). They and are scheduled to play their first live gig in their home town at the Thanksgiving break 2006 per their website. 442 unique Ghits for "Stage crew" + celtic, all but about 5 return links for the generic usage of stage crew. Ohconfucius 04:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Nomination withdrawn - Yomangani ^talk 13:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Albophobia

Dictionary definition; recreation of previously deleted article; non-notable term (139 ghits, one of which is my user page where I list pages that I have deleted.) Prod removed. Brianyoumans 05:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Move to wiktionary. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Move to wiktionary. Term's definition; not encyclopedic article.--Yannismarou 09:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I am fairly convinced that this will not satisfy Wiktionary's attestation criteria. There are barely a handful of occurrences of this purported word in running text anywhere. This appears to be a protologism, not a word. Interestingly, in contrast, there appears to be evidence that "albophobie" is a word, in French. Uncle G 13:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Transwiki to wiktionary — It's dual root makes it seem like a neologism to me (latin and greek roots combined are unusual). Doing a google search for "Fear of white people" give a plethora of results, from "caucasophobia" to "gringophobia" and "albophobia" in the middle. But we're not here to discuss that - WP:NOT a dictionary. The people at wiktionary will have more experience in validating claims of word existance. M a rtinp23 23:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- I am one of "the people at Wiktionary", and my opinion, based upon experience, is above. Uncle G 08:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Looking at the above linked policy, I agree with you that it wouldn't satisfy WT's criteria - perhaps an addition to wiktionary's list of protologisms? M a rtinp23 11:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment: Personally, I feel this afd is premature. It would appear that the creator of the article is simply following a request from Wikipedia:Translation into English/French the article fr:Albophobie, which seems to be quite extensive and would legitimate as an encyclopedia article, but has stopped with the translation because of the AfD, and is confused. The problem is in my opinion is with the title: I'd opt for a rename, possibly Anti-White racism, or something similar.--Aldux 15:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- In which case, I would suggest that the article be tagged with {{Translation_WIP}} or {{inuse}} to indicate what is happenning. The translator should be commended for his/her efforts :) M a rtinp23 16:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not certain that is the case. If you look at the article before my first prod, it had these weird page images in it. I don't know what is going on, but I have a strong suspicion that nothing good is coming out of it. --Brianyoumans 16:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Ah, I see! The page images are from the French article... Hmm. I agree, they were translating the French article. The only question now is whether the French article is worth translating. I agree, we should let the translator finish. I'm not sure we are going to like the result, but we can deal with that later. nomination withdrawn --Brianyoumans 16:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- fr:Albophobie is a redirect to fr:Racisme antiblanc, which is already interwiki linked to an English article: en:Black supremacy. Uncle G 10:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- But, if you look at the articles, they aren't the same. I read French very poorly, but even I can see that the material covered is very different. If they were the same at one time, they aren't now. --Brianyoumans 02:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
  - The interwiki link is indeed very poor. Both articles are on similar subjects, but the french article does't state anything about the fact that Black people would be superior to white people. -- lucasbfr ^talk 04:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Wait and see if the article becomes an encyclopedic article or stays at the state of a mere definition. But the article should be renamed with a title like anti white racism (I hate this expression). -- lucasbfr ^talk 04:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hip Forums

Fails WP:WEB. Relatively small Internet forum/website, no assertion of notability outside of its own community. --- RockMFR 05:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, non-notable Internet forum. JIP | Talk 10:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete fails WP:V. Wickethewok 19:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per WP:WEB -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Naturopathic Medical Accreditation Board

Unnotable accreditation mill with no recognition or connection to any respected academic group. Arbusto 05:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. JoshuaZ 07:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete I have to admit, this outfit looks pretty sleazy, and non-notable to boot. --Brianyoumans 07:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete unless we can thoroughly source its status as an accreditation mill. Seems to eb completely ignored by the great wide world, so that's unlikely to be possible. Guy 09:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete — "It is not recognized by Council for Higher Education Accreditation or any higher education group connected to the United States Department of Education" - from the article. This sort of provides the reasons for us, doesn't it? Anyway, delete per nom, as failing WP:NN as a nn-group. M a rtinp23 00:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete To be fair-- the quotation listed above was placed in the article by Arbusto at the same time that he listed the article for deletion, and it should never have been added to the article. It's weasel words. But no harm, no foul. The organization made the subject of the article fails the notability requirement regardless. There are a number of naturopathic groups and teachers that have gained a bit of noteriety and have had an impact on our culture. This group is not one of them. OfficeGirl 00:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the press coverage that was claimed but never shown. Normally a closer doesn't search, but normally people provide evidence rather than just vague claims of it. On a News search, I get one result and it's a simple mention that isn't very informative. On a regular google search, everything seems to be various random webpages either of credential check sites or other schools / practitioners. Gillian McKeith cites at least 2 articles from newspapers... this article cites nothing, none of the "news coverage" of McKeith mentions this group, let alone gives useful information on it. If anyone wants to present a reliable source on this topic, I'll undelete. W.marsh 15:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American Association of Drugless Practitioners

Unnotable accreditation mill with no recognition or connection to any respected academic group. Arbusto 05:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. JoshuaZ 07:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete unless we can source its being an accreditation mill. Again, appears to be ignored by the wider community, so that's likely to be impossible. Guy 09:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep This group does not seem to be primarily an accreditation mill; it also certifies practitioners, and claims to function as a referral service, etc. It may be scam-like, but it appears markedly more notable than the entry above; for instance, it gets more than 39K Google hits, 713 unique - most of them schools and practitioners mentioning their certification. --Brianyoumans 10:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep many press mentions per comments from Brianyoumans. Was in the news as part of the Gillian McKeith education scandal. Obviously important to document these groups given the number of schools who cite them as accreditors. Finally, should be kept per the list guidelines, which mandate articles for list components and this is included in our List of unrecognized accreditation associations of higher learning. --JJay 23:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- 1) You listed NO sources for that claim. Perhaps if it is so important it should be included to prove notablity? 2) Just because its on a list does not mean an automatic keep (as you have been told before.) 3) 713 unique google hits is not very many. 4) What are some of these "schools" its connected too? Arbusto 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Not sure what claim you are objecting to. Check the coverage on McKeith. This was major news in the UK. Otherwise, besides the list guidelines, I think we should be documenting all unrecognized accreditors, for the simple reason that people constantly claim bogus degrees from these groups. Merely listing them does not provide enough information for our readers. --JJay 23:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

"Check the coverage on McKeith." As for now you haven't supplied anything to prove notability for this group. Does it even still exist as a group or is it just a internet front? WP:CORP states we need several non-trival sources. Arbusto 22:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Weak Keep — They do seem to be a real organisation, offering accreditation services, though the article desperately needs cleanup to include sources and statements of notability. Should these not be provided, it's a non-notable organisation M a rtinp23 00:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete g1, patent nonsense. "Little known fact, the lead singer of Scenegrind Pop-Thrash band "Shovel" was the first man to deny nine eleven actually happened. Oddly enough "Shovel" broke up before 1985." Ha ha ha. NawlinWiki 19:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scenegrind pop-thrash

Non-notable or made up musical style. Unsourced, article title gets no google hits outside Wikipedia[18]. Deprodded without comment. Weregerbil 06:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Also claims relation to historical events with Jimmy Carter that as far as I can tell never happened. JoshuaZ 07:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing that it's talking about this. ergot 19:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete Arbusto 08:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Clear hoax. Prolog 09:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per WP:RS, WP:V. ergot 19:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ravenverse

Endorsed prod removed. No verification nor assertion of notability/significance. Ginkgo100 ^{talk · e@} 06:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. 20 Google hits, all from MySpace, LiveJournal etc. No sign of reliable sources documenting this as a notable/significant piece of fiction. FreplySpang 06:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Fanfic, the end. Delete Danny Lilithborne 20:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, states it won awards but fails to mention them. -- lucasbfr ^talk 21:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
More then a Fan Fiction, the Ravenverse has become a fan favorite over the last couple of years since it has started. Picking up popularity at both [forum.buffyworld.com Buffyworld] and [btvsfigs.proboards48.com BtVS Figs]. Awards have been won (as stated) incluiding writer awards. Wikipedia is ment to be a place of learning, and I feel strongly that having a Ravenverse page will ulitmatly help the quality of fan fictions rise and allow people to learn.- -DigitalLeonardo ^talk 22:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment However popular a fanfic may be, it is still a fanfic. My vote stands. Danny Lilithborne 10:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Trivia, cruft, fanfic, possible copyvio. Must go. John Reid 19:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was redirect. - Mailer Diablo 12:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Creation vs. Evolution

POV fork of Creation-evolution controversy, at best would make sense to be a redirect. JoshuaZ 06:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Redirect or Delete - We don't need two articles of this. I'm actually surprised that we have the other article in the first place. -WarthogDemon 06:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect at best, Delete otherwise. Original research and POV pushing at its finest. Seraphimblade 06:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I redirected it for now. Deleting is fine as well. POV fork. — Knowledge Seeker দ 06:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Where exactly has it been moved to? I don't see it on the Creation-evolution controversy page. MAXimum Xtreme 06:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Nothing was moved, it was made a redirect by KnowledgeSeeker. JoshuaZ 06:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Sometimes, MX, some content from a problematic article can be merged into an existing article. People may express such an opinion here, or may carry out the merge themselves. In this case, it is unlikely that anything from the article in question would be considered suitable for inclusion. I would also suggest that if this trend continues, this discussion be closed as per WP:SNOW, and to avoid excessive criticism of this article. I naturally won’t do it, having participated in the discussion already. — Knowledge Seeker দ 07:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom --Michael Johnson 08:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Arbusto 08:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, POV fork. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 10:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to Creation-Evolution controversy inaccurate POV rubbish Hut 8.5 15:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect, which has already been done.--Isotope23 16:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I reverted the redirect since folks like to see what they !vote on. In any case, my !vote is Smite. ~ trialsanderrors 17:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect completely POV and a much better article already exists. -- lucasbfr ^talk 22:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Beyond POV and riddled with errors. I appreciate trialsanderrors's reasoning, but as articles are "live," so to speak, if this isn't a redirect we should have something at the top of the page directing readers to our established article on this topic. JChap2007 01:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect. If someone searches for "Creation vs. Evolution" they are almost certainly looking for Creation-evolution controversy. SWAdair 08:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete g1, patent nonsense/obvious hoax. "Several I-131 bombs have been sucessfully tested at the defense contractor NeuroToxin's test pits. At least one has been badly damaged. It is believed that NeuroToxin is covering up these tests to sell the technology to rogue countries such as the DPRK." Give me a freakin' break. NawlinWiki 19:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iodine bomb

Hoax. I-131 is a product from a nuclear fission. Its fusion would be a reverse reaction requiring additional energy, not producing it. No ghits on such a novel weapon Alex Bakharev 06:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete hoax; unsourced. Wavy G 09:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as pure HOAX.-- danntm ^T _C 14:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete a7. "As of November 3, 2006, the movement hadn't done anything." Sounds like a failure to assert notability to me. NawlinWiki 19:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anarcho-Vegetarianism

Delete Unverifiable. If it cannot be verified it cannot exist. God article must also be deleted based on this logic.

Not notable movement Alex Bakharev 06:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete "Your search - "Anarcho-Vegetarianism" - did not match any documents." 0 ghits, smells awfully hoaxy. --Daniel Olsen 07:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - no ghits, and no cites at all...for a vegetarian article it does smell pretty fishy. --Doc Tropics ^{Message in a bottle} 07:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Not notable and unsourced.--Yannismarou 09:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, non-notable, unverifiable and hoax. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 10:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Huh? Weight loss through anarchy and vegetarianism? While anarchy and vegetarianism often go hand and hand, this article is pretty hoaxy ("based on the works of Thin Lizzy ?!?!) Dina 13:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Carrot juice may be murder, but inverting the Food Pyramid is just wrong. Likely hoax, fails WP:V. Caknuck 16:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete began in October of 2006, and had a slow start. Only one commune was created, and the second didn't develop until early November *looks at calendar* hmmmm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koweja (talk • contribs)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RuneScape random events

Nominated for deletion for a third time. This article seems much more like part of a game guide than an encyclopedia article. The notability of the article isnt asserted in any way. There are no third parties references. I'd propose it be deleted MidgleyDJ 07:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. oTHErONE _(Contribs) 09:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, Wikipedia is not a game guide. JIP | Talk 10:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Delete - we need only mention this in the main, combat and/or planned gameplay articles; how the events act as a Captcha along with a brief history of cheating in the game and how Jagex has fought it. A whole article seems a little unnecessary. Instead of deleting, it could be moved to a portal or wikiproject subpage, so something can be done with it, maybe information reused. The images would make a nice gallery, though. CaptainVindaloo ^{t c e} 11:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Abstain or merge into another RuneScape subpage, where it might be relevant if we trim down on the fancruft. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 15:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Ew. The only thing that is really needed is the basic "There are random events, blah blah blah". Everything else is cruft. -Amarkov ^babble 15:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep. I'm thinking along the same lines as Cap'n Vindaloo. Some of the information is salvageable. Keep this at least until we decide what else to do with it. --Christofurio 16:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. PresN 19:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Random events are not significant enough to have their own article.--Richard 22:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Delete, but Merge Some Info into Main Article This is basically fancruft, what we should do is merge all the important info into the main article. The RSJ 22:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete but the Introductory paragraphs could be used for the main RuneScape article--Ed ^Trick? or _Treat? 00:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. There's way too much cruft on here about Runescape as it stands. This isn't a games review site. All that's needed, in order to fulfill the purpose of an encyclopaedia is to provide a reader ignorant of the subject enough information to understand what the game is and a general context for how it works, no more. Even the main article could do with some severe pruning, and all the remaining adjuncts expunging. Cain Mosni 00:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete. At the very least, there surely must be a better place to transwiki all of this Runescape stuff. In any case, WP:NOT a game guide, although I might be amenable if some of the more noteworthy content was placed in the main Runescape article. --Alan Au 09:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, a blurb about random events happening to prevent botting and macroing is all that is needed. Axem Titanium 15:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Combination 00:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge because some of it can fit into other articles - • The Giant Puffin • 12:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Delete - You have got to be kidding. Random events? This Runescape cruft/game guiding is getting ridiculous. Keeping this sets a bad precedent as well as all the obvious arguements against it. If this is kept, then there is no real arguement against creating articles about random events in other games. The Kinslayer 10:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brianna Caradja

Lack of notability, lack of relevancy, dubious claim to Dracula lineage (or, in case, one shared with thousands of other people) Dahn 07:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep I just watched a Discovery documentary about Dracula and she's featured in it as a "descendant of Dracula." While you claim "dubious claim to Dracula lineage," you haven't provided any sources refuting her claim. That being said, I trust the Discovery channel as a source a lot more than some Wikipedian. Just to prove that I'm not making this up and back up my claim, here's a snapshot: [19] If she indeed is the descendant of Dracula, then she's absolutely notable. EliasAlucard|Talk 08:51, 03 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

Coment - 1. Is every descendant of Ţepeş' notable for being his descendant? 2. The claim of direct lineage is highly unlikely, as anyone vaguely familiar with Romanian history knows (ie: no direct lineage was necessary to become prince, all boyar familes were related to the prince, and something called the Phanariotes came about at some point - Brianna is a descendant, more or less direct, of the Caragea family, who were not "descendants of Dracula" more than hundreds of other families); even the sources you mention indicate that she is an [indirect] descendant of the 27th generation! Caradja has never made that claim inside Romania, arguably because she knows it is refutable for the said reasons. 3. And what else has she done, pray tell? A Google glance over Romanian journals says that she has: married an American, paid reporters to photograph her (!), married (re-married with?) a man who was supposed to be the son-in-law of Michael I of Romania. Dahn 08:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Would you at least provide your "Google" sources? You're only asserting things here without actually providing sources for your claims. EliasAlucard|Talk 09:10, 03 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

[20], [21], [22]. All tabloids. Dahn 08:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, tabloids are extremely reliable. If tabloids write something, it must be true. Seriously, I take the word of Discovery any day over tabloids. As for the Caragea family, it seems they have history with Wallachia and that makes it more probable that she's a descendant of Dracula, and there's an article about Catherine Caradja too (could be family). Either way, to me, she seems notable whether or not she actually is a descendant of Dracula. EliasAlucard|Talk 09:20, 03 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

Let me explain som things. I was using tabloids precisely because they are the only Romanian sources on Brianna Cardja you will bump into on the entire internet, and with this kind of topics (in fact, there are two sites or so, with the same news, the odd English-language chat, and then that's it!). If you did not see the point about the Caradjas being a Phanariote family and how that relates to their descendants and their kinship with Dracula, then perhaps you should refrain from commenting on issues having to do with Romanian hisory. Dahn 08:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Unbelievable. You are ASSUMING that she's 100% from the Caragea family because of her surname. You haven't done serious research on her family lineage, YOU DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT HER FAMILY LINEAGE IS OR ISN'T. A surname is a surname. It doesn't prove anything. You can have an Arab surname, but that doesn't make you an Arab. You're basing her entire lineage on her surname. And don't tell me to not comment on things. EliasAlucard|Talk 09:48, 18 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

Let me make it even more clear. Aside from the fact that it is very unlikely to be named Caradja and not be a Caradja in Romania, especially when you also say you're a princess, I will say that she'd better be a Caradja at the very least. Because, you see, Vlad Ţepeş' last direct male descendant, Petru cel Tânăr, died without heirs in 1568. Dahn 08:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Why the fuck didn't you mention this from the beginning? You could've saved me lots of time. EliasAlucard|Talk 16:48, 03 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

Not that it matters, but I believe I have told you several times already that Caradja (with or without the name) cannot be a direct descendant. Moreover, I have also mentioned that succession rules in yesteryear Wallachia were absurd (one of all male children, legitimate and illegimate alike, could inherit a title), and direct lineage was a non sequitur (in general, all such claims are dubious). Dahn 16:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't care what her surname is. Surnames change throughout the years. You can't expect a family lineage to have the same surname for 600 years. So a surname isn't really that important. But if his last male descendant died without heirs, that's another thing (I'd like to have a source for this if possible). EliasAlucard|Talk 22:53, 03 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

1) "Caradja"/"Caragea" is not "Johnson", you know? It's more like "there might have been more than one families named House of Hannover in England". I'd wager that the name was not held by any family other than descendants of the original Carageas, who were Greek and came to Romania in the 1700s (300 years after Dracula died). This would imply that, since a princely claim is involved, Caradja is, at best, a descendant of those people. 2) Turns out I was wrong - I had forgotten that Petru and Alexandru II were brothers. Which leads us to Alexandru Coconul (the Child-Prince), who left no inheritors after his 1627 rule (Mihnea III was, possibly, his brother - he died without inheritors after getting whoopass from the Ottomans in 1659) - see here. With Matei Basarab, princes were no longer nominated after any real hereditary criteria, and all boyar families claimed to descend from the legendary rulers of the 1300s (which, if anything, would make them collateral).

Since it is highly unlikely that non-Caradjas could bear both the name Caradja and the "title" of prince (I should warn you that nobody was exactly a prince or princess after the 1870s), Dracula "blood" could only have come to them through a collateral branch; since the male line was extinguished before the 1630s (while parallel branches from Dracula's various brothers and uncles continued to exist) the very probability is ridiculous; since clear rules of succession were never really the case in medieval Wallachia, and women did not have the right to inherit, all such "genealogies" are merely shiny beads for the gullible. Dahn 22:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, but please tell me, if she's not a descendant of Dracula, then why is she claiming to be a descendant of Dracula and how is it that the Discovery channel presents it as a fact? They're putting their credibility at stake by doing so, and I doubt they would want to screw up their credibility for a documentary about Dracula. EliasAlucard|Talk 23:49, 03 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

"Why is she claiming to be a descendent of Dracula?" Why do people claim to be descendents of anyone famous? It makes people think of you differently. "Why does the Discovery Channel present it as fact?" Presumably because they were hoodwinked as well - not every documentary maker is able to check every single fact thoroughly (every time I see documentaries about areas I'm interested in, I spot mistakes). BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Right. And so it was decided that Brianna Caradja is not a descendant of Dracula by the infallible Wikipedia community. Now, it has become a fact. EliasAlucard|Talk 00:43, 04 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

No, she may be a descendent of Dracula (if she is, she's still non-notable because she's 27 generations removed from someone notable). What I'm saying is that there are perfectly sensible reasons why she might claim to be one if she wasn't, and equally sensible reasons why a documentary might say that she was even if she wasn't. You asked two questions and were given two answers. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 00:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Alucard, you will watch your language, or else. Biruitorul 22:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Shut the fuck up fat boy. EliasAlucard|Talk 00:43, 04 Nov, 2006 (UTC)

I think you've said more than enough on this AfD. Tone down your language, or you will be blocked -- Samir धर्म 00:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete. Notability is only ever passed from generation to generation if one is a member of one of the major royal families of the world, and I doubt the branch concerned here is sufficiently major. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 08:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as other votes. In regards to the keep vote - it is not up to us to prove that she is not a descendent of Dracula, its is up to eny editors to prove that she is. Even supposing she were, given her relatively unnotable life, she would not merit any more than a small note in the dracula article.michaelCurtis ^talk+ _{contributions} 09:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Per Dahn's arguments.--Yannismarou 09:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Descendance from even a major royal has no correlation to notability. At least one-third of the English population is descended from King John (this guy [23] claims every person of English descent is). --Charlene 10:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, probably most people of European descent are 27th-generation descendants of some or another royal. That doesn't make one notable. NawlinWiki 19:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Per above; descent, except within certain narrow confines, simply does not establish notability. Biruitorul 22:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. Not notable. Valrith 23:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Hait

This page makes some very doubtful claims about its subjects achievements. The article claims subject is responsible for significant scientific advances, with no verification - it seems a lot like a hoax. --Swpb 01:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Verify this!! US Patent Office Search on John N. Hait

The above comment was made by User:24.117.205.50 (User talk:24.117.205.50) at 17:30, 3 November 2006 --Swpb 21:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy delete. Blatant spam and vanity. Not an hoax, just a guy who has some *** ideas - let's just say ideas which have may not have received wide acceptance by the scientific community. Ideas such as Passive Annual Heat Storage which I have put up for deletion. -- RHaworth 07:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

In fact to judge by the description on Image:John hait.jpg, the article was written by his son - but it is still vam and spanity. -- RHaworth 08:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a keeper! Passive Annual Heat Storage is tried and true. This method has been featured in several articles such as Popular Science. You'd know this had you read the book.

The above comment was made by User:24.117.205.50 (User talk:24.117.205.50) at 17:30, 3 November 2006 --Swpb 21:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - blatant conflict of interest. MER-C 08:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete vanity : He part of the "I want to be smarter than Einstein" crowd Dtneilson 05:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete with extreme prejudice. Wareq 07:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Self-published crackpot theories. If there were any valid scientific publications, this would be a different story, but there aren't. eaolson 20:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

SAVE!!! The proof's in the pudding. Check out his patents based off his theories. He invented and patented the world's fastest transistor, which has been demonstrated in the lab to switch in a single wavelength of blue light in 1.2 femtoseconds. 100,000 times faster than electronic transistors. CoolScience 20:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Funny, I can't find any publication verifying such a claim in Google Scholar. [24]. In fact, there don't seem to be any publications by him regarding transistors. eaolson 20:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment the "transistor" is just interference between two beams of light. This is something simple dressed up to try and make it look cool and novel. This guy has been hanging around the fringes of science for years.Dtneilson 04:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment I just unblocked the article creator, User:Einsteincode, who had been blocked for repeatedly reposting a very spammy article on Mr. Hait's book, "The Einstein Code". (He promised not to recreate the article on the book.) I suspect (from the use of exclamation points above, if nothing else) that Einsteincode, CoolScience, and 24.117.205.50 are all the same person, namely, Mr. Hait's son. NawlinWiki 20:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Passive Annual Heat Storage

Pure advert created by the inventor of this process - see John Hait who also has this AfD discussion. -- RHaworth 07:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per above. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 08:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - conflict of interest, original research, unreferenced, bordering on nonsense - "That is, they collect and save more energy than they need for operation." MER-C 11:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep it! - Check out the referrances. Read the book, the process works. These homes can create more energy then they use. Do your homework. Enjoy!

The above comment was posted at 17:47, 3 November 2006 by User:24.117.205.50 (User talk:24.117.205.50). --Swpb 23:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. All three "references" are authored by Hait. The page presents no valid outside information. --Swpb 01:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, preferably within the next kilosecond. --Wareq 07:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. All the references were written by the same author, possibly the creator of this article. eaolson 20:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy deleted by Pgk. Whispering 00:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taxpayer's holiday

Unknown and unsigned band with no sign of passing WP:MUSIC. The band has apparently no album, (no sign on Amazon, and no sign of reviews); exactly 5 unique Ghits for "Taxpayer's holiday" + nebraska Ohconfucius 08:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete. No assertion of meeting WP:MUSIC. 45 Google hits (11 unique), of which none even manages to verify the existence of such band. Prolog 09:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete Anyone see assertion of nobility? I don't. A7. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 22:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. W.marsh 16:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alex Kramer

This article is blatantly self-publicity and seems to being continually altered and updated, quite possibly by the subject themselves. I fail to see how a very minor presenter of a gaming quiz programme primarily on non-terrestrial television is a suitable subject for Wikipedia. This undoubtable falls short of theWP:VAIN criteria.

Any edits and changes which cast doubt on the credance of the entry are immediately reverted with juvenile spin. Wiki is not a CV page for desperate wannabee starlets. This is a serious encyclopedia project and should be treated as such.

Forgive me if I have done this incorrectly. I am relatively new to Wiki, but have become passionate about what it stands for, and find this to be beneath the standards it should rightly quest for.

James — James Leftovic (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I have amended two sections to remove offending items and tidy the entire entry. As an ITV1 presenter she needs to be in Wikipedia for Wikipedia to serve it's purpose. — 81.158.132.86 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 12:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - both users above have only edited this page and the article in question. This debate was relisted due to a mistake on my part. MER-C 08:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, one of numerous presenters/hosts for various shows on various channels down the dial. --Dhartung | Talk 08:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as it falls foul of WP:SAYNOTOMINORQUIZSHOWHOSTS. Vizjim 11:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete I profoundly disagree that we need this ~~twaddle~~ article in order for Wikipedia to fulfil its purpose. When we still have titanic figures such as Giovanni Punto with no articles (until I created one, anyway) I think we can safely leave the daytime quiz show hosts for later. Guy 12:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Though I originally submitted this - and yes I've only posted here, I had posted before but without logging in - however I needed to do so in order to suggest the deletion. Can someone help me - it seems to have gone from the article - does this mean the deletion isn't happening. Sorry to be confused I'm quite new, I just feel this is important. I also note that someone has now taken out the fact that this presenter works for a channel who's repuatation has been severely questioned ethically. It really does have no place on wikie!
Delete — Not notable - as JzG implied, we don't need an article on every tv presenter (ever to appear on TV // ever).... M a rtinp23 23:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - the closing admin may wish to note that the AfD notice was absent from the article for 18 hours - should consensus need to be formed (which I'd doubt...) at the end of the current time, I feel that the AfD should be relisted, at the admin's discretion M a rtinp23 23:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - whether or not Ms Kramer is important or not to classical historians or whoever, it must be noted a person who regularly appears on a terrestrial TV channel for 6 hours a week is going to be a part of TV history for good or bad. For them to be not noted in Wikipedia shows a snobbery, an elitism and a lacking. Wikipedia is a virtual encyclopedia, if it were printed you'd need to edit, but not on a web site. I should check if the Cillit Bang character 'Barry Scott' or Sugar Puffs 'Honey Monster' are here too. They all make part of TV's chequered History. I have looked at other "to delete" pages & some I've wondered why. Some clearly are the "twaddle" as noted above.
Strong keep. Appears to confer notability via being a TV presenter. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, as my rant on TRIVIA shows (who reads this page anyway?) send this Wiki to oblivion & for all the time wasted on it by thou & thee, put it into something more worthwhile. Wikipedia is a great source of solid info, not annoying rubbish like this entry has become.
Strong Keep - TV presenter on major television network is notable. If the article appears like self publicity, that doesn't mean the subject isn't notable; it means the article needs to be changed, not deleted. --Oakshade 03:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Delete I think this person simply isn't worthy of a place in wiki, a non-entity on minor TV station in the UK. Perhaps we should refer them to IMDB where its suitable.
- ITV1 is a major TV station in the UK. --Oakshade 22:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  - But she isn't a presenter on it. Moreover, do read the guidelines - "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by: Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers; A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following; An independent biography; Name recognition; Commercial endorsements". See WP:BIO. Vizjim 00:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Also see "just because someone doesn't fall into one of these categories doesn't mean an article on the person should automatically be deleted." I think she meets what you posted, but even if she comes close, she certainly meets this part. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
      - I was just about to type exactly what Badlydrawnjeff did, but just to respond to Vizjim's incorrect information, she in fact IS a presenter on a show shown on ITV1. --Oakshade 00:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        No, she isn't. She is a presenter on ITVPlay, a cable channel with such minority interest that it almost never registers a statistically significant number of viewers. Content from this channel is sometimes simulcast on ITV, but that does not make her an ITV presenter. Vizjim 08:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        My point confirmed. She's a presenter on a show shown on ITV1. Thanks. --Oakshade 15:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        Pierce Brosnan's films are frequently shown on ITV: does that make him an "ITV actor"? Her paycheck is issued by ITVPlay. Vizjim 13:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        Quite a stretch there in assuming the accouting payroll details of ITV. I'm guesssing (as you were guessing) that all ITV employees are officially paid by ITV plc or ITV Network Limited. And for Brosnan, those are repeated older feature films, not first run TV shows. --Oakshade 15:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong keep. She ONLY appears on the 'Make Your Play' show which is on ITV for a longer duration than it is on ITV PLAY. Check the start times, you'll see the ITV version starts up to an hour earlier than on ITV PLAY. Therefore in this case, it's more an ITV programme, simulcast on both ITV and segments on ITV PLAY. For this to be debated so strongly, we are drawn to it because we like Alex Kramer (or don't!). Admittedly she is currently little-known outside of TV Quiz circles, where she is very popular (check out fan sites ie http://shoppingtvbabes.co.uk/), but why should (example) a 16th century artist with no public profile of any sort, be "more worthy" than this entry just as it is more highbrow that a Quiz show. Wikipedia should be without bias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.255.91 (talk • contribs)
- Dear me, are we now quoting shoppingtvbabes as a source for an encyclopedia, that's the best reason for a delete I've ever seen. What next she should stay because a picture of her appeared in dogsonheat weekly (not that I'm saying it has, but you get my point!)

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The result was delete. Glen 11:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Controversy of Zion

A non-critical advertisement for a book promoting antisemitic conspiracy theories. If the subject is really worth a WP article, it should be rewritten from scratch. Also this is probably a copyvio. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 08:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. -- ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 08:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Hardly even worthy of appearing anywhere on the internet, let alone having its own encyclopedia article.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 09:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete junk - crz crztalk 09:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. oTHErONE _(Contribs) 09:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Having an article about this is worthy, but it needs editing to make it look nicer and not copyvio --Nielswik_(talk) 10:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete this unreferenced, unnotable, anti-semitic garbage. Vizjim 11:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nominator. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 11:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete unreadable article on a book which is probably also best left unread. Guy 12:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per WP:OR, WP:SOAPBOX, and WP:CB. There doesn't appear to be any connection between the opinions in this article and the book of the same name. I believe these opinions are unsourced and simply an expression of an editor's personal views. --Shirahadasha 13:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

~~In particular the Amazon.com page on the book says that~~

In this dispassionate yet opinionated history, which sweeps from Theodore Herzl's Zionist dream to Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin's assassination in 1995, Wheatcroft condemns the 1975 United Nations resolution equating Zionism with racism as gravely malicious, a reflection of the Arab states' malignancy. While praising Israel as "a unique island of constitutional government in the Levant," he echoes the observation of U.S. journalist I.F. Stone that Zionism involved a psychological act of denial along with a physical act of displacement of Palestine's Arab population.

This article is clearly not that. In addition to a completely different POV from the way the book is described, the most obvious problem is that the article sweeps back much earlier than that, tracing things back to Talmudic times etc., something the book is reported not to do. It would be reasonable to infer that only the title, not the content, is taken from the book, that the use of the book as a source may be misleading and a misrepresentation of the article's source and reliability/credibility, and that this article appears to be, instead, completely unsourced personal polemic. See generally WP:CB. Delete. --Shirahadasha 13:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

CommentI edit conflicted. There's apparently two books, one by Wheatcroft (the one with the amazon entry), the other, first published in 1956 by Reed. Dina 13:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

- - Acknowledge there are two books, one by Reed and a later one by Wheatcroft. --Shirahadasha 14:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete It's difficult to go through the normal process with an article that summarizes the Holocaust as "In ratio to their numbers they didn’t suffer any more or any less than other people, but this was an example of the phenomenon, that everything must focus on Jews." but I shall try. It most likely violates WP:COPYVIO and either way, the book itself is not notable enough for this detailed a summary, so the article violates WP:OR. The statements in the article are not presented as arguments from the book, but as fact, which violates WP:V. To say it violates WP:NPOV is almost unneccessary for an article that puts the word anti-semitism in quotes every time it uses it. Furthermore, there is apparently a different book called The Controversy of Zion amazon entry, which according to the reviews on the page appears to be a scholarly, even-handed account of the history of Zionism. (and therefore shouldn't even have to sit next to this book on a library shelf.) Anyone read that book? Let's replace this article with an article about that one! Failing that, let's send this article into the dark pit of deletion. Dina 13:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to some forgotten page on another anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, something that even a 3-year-old would laugh at. --Wareq 07:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per User:Dina. The article seems like it has a bad case of Wikipedia:Patent nonsense. IZAK 07:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Per Humus and Dina. Jayjg ^(talk) 00:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus to delete. Article name seems a bit nonstandard, suggest reviewing WP:NAME. W.marsh 16:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John "Kat" Brooks

Random guy who was injured during a shooting, with no other claim to fame. The incident itself is well covered at Dimebag Darrell. Dtcdthingy 22:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. Sad to say, having a famous and tragic death isn't enough to merit inclusion here. Most of the people who died in 9/11 don't even have articles, and those would be probably the most newsworthy, notable deaths of our times. Crabapplecove 00:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete or redirect to Dimebag Darrell#Death There may be one or two salveagable sentences or references to add to that section of the Darrell article. Pascal.Tesson 03:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep as he is related to a famous death. Also helps that he has parts in band's history, videos, behind the music show, etc. Searching for "kat pantera" gives 280,000 google hits. Arbusto 01:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

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Delete. I would have to say on balance this guy is not particularly notable nor is this likely to change. --Dhartung | Talk 08:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to Dimebag Darrell#Death. --Wareq 07:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Arbustoo. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Arbustoo. The history with Pantera adds encyclopedic merit in addition to the involvement with the Dimebag Darrell incident. Agne 00:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was No consensus (it was close to merge but a single merge target hasn't been identified). Yomangani ^talk 18:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mark Bunker

Some guy whose only reason for being here is that he hates Scientology and has a website which also has an unnecessary Wikipedia article. Crabapplecove 23:52, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete or merge into any one of a half dozen anti-scieno websites likeScientology controversy or Scientology versus the Internet. Operation Clambake is certainly notable, but not everyone who has been picketed by Scientology can make WP. Montco 02:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

*Merge per Montco, while I'd personally rather have an article about this guy as one more little poke at the scientology asses, he doesn't seem to meet WP:BIO. If someone can comb through the google hits on the guy to see if they can get him to meet WP:BIO I'd be more than happy to change this to keep. In any case, his website and he should be in the same article. JoshuaZ 03:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC) Changing to Weak keep or barring that merge due to the regional Emmy mentioned below. JoshuaZ 07:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment. I went sifting through the google hits on this guy and found that we won a 2006 Emmy for something called "Border Special". I think that would qualify him under WP:BIO, yeah? --Brad Beattie ^(talk) 04:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- Question. Interesting. Good catch on that one. The Emmy was given by the Pacific Southwest Chapter of the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences. Does that count as THE 'Emmy' or is this some low budget local Emmy? I don't know. 2006 Winners List --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Montco (talk • contribs) 13:53, 23 October 2006.
- Answer. The Emmy he won is technically an Emmy, although it's a regional Emmy which "are less glamorous than the Prime Time Emmys and are sometimes technical". I'm torn as to whether this qualifies him for notability. The regional Emmys don't have their own page here; they're just a single paragraph in the Emmy article. My instinct isn't for a keep vote, but I can't back that up through policy. --Brad Beattie ^(talk) 05:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  - I don't think that winning a regional Emmy should qualify a person under WP:BIO; note that he was only competing against people in San Diego, Las Vegas, and some mid-size California cities (not Los Angeles or San Francisco). Delete. --Metropolitan90 07:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Winning an Emmy in the district where over 8 million people live is VERY notable. (By the way, most people don't consider San Francisco in the "Pacific Southwest.") --Oakshade 06:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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Keep, I've seen some of his videos and he has a reason to go against scientology since they did things like picket his house and harrass him in public areas, tried to get him arrested for no reason. He has done a lot to bring awareness of scientology and is definitely notable. I'd say keep it or merge it with a page of critics or something.Turboflame 00:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete, notable only within anti-Scientology circles. --Dhartung | Talk 08:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

... and pro-Scientology circles, for different reasons. The circles altogether have a large population. --Oakshade 06:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete. Not generally notable.--Yannismarou 10:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
merge (a bit) and redirect to Operation Clambake. Guy 12:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Very notable in the Scientology world (either loved or hated) and noted figure in the anti-Church of Scientology movement. --Oakshade 05:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was speedy keep per WP:CSK #1, nomination withdrawn and no other deletion opinions present. (Merge is a variant on keep, not on delete.) GRBerry 03:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kathmandu University High School

High school. No reliable outside sources listed, and none found by a media search, so apparently non-noteworthy. Article consists of the name, location, and founding date (1997) of the school, and it apparently cannot be expanded beyond perhaps demographic information; that means it's a directory entry. Prod disputed on the grounds that it's a school. Shimeru 10:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. "No reliable outside sources listed, and none found by a media search, so apparently non-noteworthy". Wow, that's a pretty big conclusion to draw. It's in Nepal - I suspect that Nepal is not the world's number one country for internet access. That doesn't mean it's non-notable. A Google search confirms its existence and that's all we need for a stub. But keep for my usual reasons. -- Necrothesp 11:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I take it, then, that you have some non-Internet source to provide? Shimeru 00:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep — It's on the small side, so it just meets my personal H.S. notability cireria. :-) — RJH (talk) 16:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
merge to Kathmandu University since the school is a part of the university and is not very notable by itself. JoshuaZ 19:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. I think it is owned by the university, not part of it in the sense that students at the school are students of the university. If this was a High School owned by a prominant university in the west, it would be kept. Kadmandu University is the most prominant university in Nepal. It should be kept, expanded and not merged. --Bduke 23:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Withdrawn On reflection, perhaps it's unreasonable to expect a stub to be expanded in three months. Since I'm assured it's noteworthy, I'm willing to allow some time for that expansion to happen. I'll renominate in two or three months if it doesn't. I don't believe it will be, because of the lack of sources, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Shimeru 00:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Necrothesp as well as WP:BIAS concerns. Current sources are sufficient given the context. Yamaguchi先生 04:26, 4 November 2006
Keep The fact that we have a near perfect track record setting a precedent for retention of high school articles, combined with the school's affiliation as part of Kathmandu U., convinces me that it is worthy of retention. Alansohn 22:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy redirect to Fukuoka Softbank Hawks. Guy 12:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SoftBank Hawks

Already exists in more detail under Fukuoka Softbank Hawks Neoyamaneko 10:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:20, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pie Factory

Non notable public house Quentin X 10:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

delete as above WikiGull 12:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete, non notable. Dryman 14:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. W.marsh 16:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Helmi Technologies

Article was speedily deleted as a non-notable company article, then as a recreation of deleted material. The original author believes that the article is notable enough for inclusion, so I am putting this up on Afd. Tangotango 10:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Initial comment from author I feel that the article meets the notability criterias. The company has been around since 2004, there has been several printed and non printed articles in independetn and well established, respected news sources, magazines etc. about the company including some full page articles during the last few years (both due pressreleases and due personal interviews of the company officials) both in US and Finland. Additionally Helmi as a company is referede by several independent analysts, including Rober Francis Group, 451 Group among others, in their analysts reports. Obiously most of the information, in terms of source, in the article is from the company itself, but atleast the article tries to be objective there. Jrisku 10:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Please provide references for the published material in indepdendent, respected publications. This will clearly resolve the notability question in favour of the article. Add the references to the article rather than here. Rich257 10:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Found the report from The 451 Group, it requires user ID, but is still there, I didn't find online version of the report from Rober Francis Group. Jrisku 11:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete — Not included in an index, can't find any articles about it other than press releases, fails WP:CORP Rich257 10:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

In Finland there has been several printed articles about Helmi Technologies, for instance one of the most respected economic magazines of finland "Talouselämä" had an interview of three entepreneurs from Oulu, Helmi had coverage of over one full color page. "Talouselämä" is such news paper, that frequently intervies for instance CEO's of companies like Nokia. There has also been several other printed articles, not related to press releases, for instance in news paper called "Kaleva" (published in Oulu, Finland, about 200 000 readers). I don't know all the US and English language sources, but I know that there has been articles also in English printed press. Helmi has also been several times, among press and other sources, refered as one of the most promising startups in Oulu, Finland (which is one of the most important software hubs in Finland). I would also say, that since helmi is mentioned in several US analyst reports (definately an independent source), it also makes the case rather strong. Personally, I feel that informative and objective content about some company shouldn't constitute article to be deleted. In that way only big companies end up in to wikipedia, which is shame. Additionally I would like to make a note that there are allready few editors who has edited the article and outsiders from Helmi's stand point. Please also note that the link to the 451 group "protected" content is a full report only focused on Helmi, it goes trough in detailled manner Helmi's product and it's strenghts and weaknesses. Helmi doesn't have any client relationship to the 451 group. I added few references to the article page. Jrisku 18:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Weak keep per User:Jrisku. JIP | Talk 10:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment Jrisku appears to be the CEO of the company based on his user page, while that isnt a problem it should be noted in relation to this AfD. A quick google search returns 253,000 pages thats a reasonible quantity of hits and lends itself towards notibility. From within wikipedia the article has no links to it from other articles which I would like to know/see how it can contribute to the overall project by supporting other articles. I would also like to hear Jrisku opinion of the article in relation to WP:NOT especially the section on soapbox. Gnangarra 11:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Above note is correct, just thought, that for credibility shake (so that there will be no "hidden agendas" discussion"), I should place my background on user page as well so that everybody know that I'm part of the source (original page was entered by some one else, propably by some one of our US employees). I feel that there could be links from other articles to this one, and I'm quite sure that there will bee soon enough. The thing though is that article is so new, that there hasn't been too much time for links to appear. We're putting significant resources in to use of Open Source community. Obiously, Helmi is a small company compared to IBM and ohter large contributors, but compared the overall resources of Helmi it's very significant, there are 6-8 full time employees involved in to Open Source development all the time (and it's going to grow significantly).Jrisku 11:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment What comes to WP:NOT section on soapbox, I feel that current article tries to be objective. There is facts like locations, employees, history etc. about the company, objective information about state of the product as well as references to some independent sources (there has been hundreds of mentionings about the company in press). The primary reason for the article is not advertizing, but provide company information in relation to open source community. In case you feel that it should be changed some way in regards to quidelines descriped in WP:NOT, the article should be changed such a way. Jrisku 11:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep it appears to be a good faith contribution while the article may have a mild appearance of advertising I think User:Jrisku as a new contributor is genuine in intentions, willing to comply with Wikipedia policies. I'll also adopt the article to improve it according to WP policies. Gnangarra 12:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete apparent corporate autobiography (see Juho Risku on Helmi website). It might try to be onjective but sadly it does not read as such to an outsider. Sorry. Guy 12:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

As said, I'm part of the source and obiously parts of the content / wording is the same as on the web site. The content is provided as a starting point. If it's not objective, please give advice how to change the article and it will be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by User:Jrisku (talk • contribs)

I have edited the lead and history section, though the same information is provided its presented differently now. please revisit the article and offer any suggestion/comments I'll endeavour to include. Gnangarra 13:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep Good faith article. So far I've found a couple of non-press release independant articles on this company. [25][26] --Oakshade 04:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. W.marsh 16:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agile Project Management with Scrum

This is a book review for a Microsoft Press book. There being no Cliff's Notes for Microsoft books, the contents of the article is pretty much guaranteed to be original research, and in any case there is not much to be said which is not already on the publisher's website. Guy 14:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. No independnt sources, no assertion of notability. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 01:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

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Delete — Per above, wikipedia is not a book-review site, clearly WP:OR. Makes no assertation of notability, and smells slightly of copyvio, or something being written for WP:SPAM purposes. (Note - I can't find evidence of copyvio, it's just my opinion). M a rtinp23 23:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep or merge with the other scrum pages — (esp. Scrum (management) page). There is material here that can be usefully retained, especially the summaries of roles descriptions. Arguably these are lacking in the other pages describing scrum and scrum processes. Schwaber is one of the authorities on scrum, so there are plenty of other sources that can be used to verify the content and accuracy (see the two other scrum pages Scrum (development) and Scrum (management) for other links. The book mentioned has, itself, a long list of references inside.

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mansfield-King

A small company, $5m turnover, a couple of hundred Googles only [27], no evidence of meeting WP:CORP, no sources independent of the subject. Guy 15:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete Nothing notable about this company that I can see from googling. Doesn't meet any part of WP:CORP. And some other articles already in Category: Packaging companies look pretty weak too. --Mereda 08:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

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delete per nom. JoshuaZ 19:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. Punkmorten 20:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Component-based paradigm

A one-paragraph stub on what appears to be a neologism; not much evidence of this definition being used outside of the cited source. Around 500 ghits excluding Wikipedia. Guy 15:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete as neologism per nominator. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 10:42, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. As if from the Dilbert's mission statement generator [28]. Pavel Vozenilek 00:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

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Delete per nom. JoshuaZ 19:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Toyota Way

Publisher's blurb for a management book. Guy 15:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete as vanity. It's just a content listing, and does not even try to assert notabilty.

--BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 02:10, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Don't delete. It provides a readable and interesting summary of this common sense and highly successful way of manufacturing cars. — 62.125.91.28 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
I see no reason to delete it. The article provides an interesting glimpse into a Japanese approach to manufacturing. No harm is being done. If anything, the article should be enhanced to include additional information from other domain experts. Tschaaff 16:48, 28 October 2006 (UTC) — Tschaaff (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Don't Delete this is a good article on lean even though this is na direct extract from a book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.247.208.20 (talk • contribs)

Don't delete. Useful summary of a very influential book.--Stephenh 16:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

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Delete - Wow, look. Another NN book with - wait for it - probable copyvios by the bucketload! I don't know any other way to say this but that summaries of entire books do not an article make. Oh, and it doesn't meet WP:V, either, in my eyes. --In ur base, killing ur dorfs 14:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Elaragirl, QuiteUnusual 21:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions. -- Wwryxz 21:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Elaragirl. Couldn't have said it better. OfficeGirl 00:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Elaragirl. This is just a TOC / backflap from the book meshach 19:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:26, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames Chris Berman mentions

I would say that this is the perfect example of listcruft. Is there an encyclopaedic topic nicknames mentioned by Chris Berman? Doesn't look like it. A list of terms of an arbitrary type uttered by an arbitrarily selected presenter. And guess how many of them are cited? What was that? None at all, you guessed? Well done, bang on the money. Guy 10:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete unless citations can be provided. Berman is famous for his nicknaming "abilities" (I'm in Australia and only ever hear him doing it when I get my NFL fix, but I still know it's a big thing he does), and a list could well be a worthwhile thing to have, but only with sources. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and above. utcursch | talk 14:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Probably notable emough for inclusion, but better references are needed to pass WP:V. Caknuck 16:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment If this is kept, I'd suggest moving to List of Bermanisms to conform to list-naming standards and to use the widely-accepted term for Berman's bit. Caknuck 15:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete The only sources are a Wiki article, Austin.rr.com (?), and Funny2.com (?!?!?!?). Delete. SupaStarGirl 21:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment austin.rr.com is the domain name for a Personal Web Page hosted on the ISP Road Runner. Caknuck 06:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep But I agree that "If this is kept, I'd suggest moving to List of Bermanisms to conform to list-naming standards and to use the widely-accepted term for Berman's bit." as Caknuck points out. As to 'citing actual sources,' most of these Bermanisms—even all—may derive from simply watching Berman on ESPN. (I recognize virtually all the baseball examples, most-to-all used on multiple occasions/broadcasts.) Thus, there is no citable text or website. This also happens to be a very thorough list of Bermanisms and explanations of their meanings/derivations, thus it's very valuable. D3gtrd 3:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Delete - Yomangani ^talk 13:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] English Independence Party

Delete - not notable. One of the key tests for notability - perhaps the key test - is set out here: User:Uncle G/On notability. This article is about a "political party" - but the only sources offered for the article are (1) entries on the Electorial Commission website evidencing that it is in fact registered (2) the homepage of the party (2) a report of an election result where the party's only candidate stood and got only 1.4% of the vote and (3) one solitary passing mention in a BBC news article from years ago, where the candidate is mentioned but the party itself isn't. There just isn't justification for an article here. --SandyDancer 11:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- I feel it should not be deleted. It may be a small party and you may not agree with it, but that is no reason to delete it form Wikipedia. The England First Party are a party just as small of the EIP, the English Democrats have as many councillors as the English Independence Party (0). `BBC news article from years ago` this is telling of the history of the party. It's a small and fairly young party so you cannot expect that the party will have been advertised as much as Labour or the British National Party, the English Democrats and [[England First Party] haven't been advertised much will you delete them?. Nor can you expect as many elections to be fought by such a small party, the funds simply arn't there. If your only reason to delete this is because of a lack of referances you could delete the England First Party article with only 3 referances and the English Democrats with 0 referances !R johnson 11:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Comment The core of your argument appears to be an admission that this party isn't notable at the moment but should be or might be one day. So you do nothing to assert the notabiliy of this page (which I note you created and which you have been the only real contributor to...)
  - As far as I can see this party doesn't have any elected representatives, and its sole participation has been its founder running in one parliamentary election (losing his deposit) and in one council election. Correct me if I am wrong. --SandyDancer 12:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
    - So your argument for deleteing the article is because the party has been unsuccessful in getting representatives into councils etc? May I note that the English Democrats have no representatives of any form in councils etc. The England First Party doesn't have many more members than the EIP. I did not create the page only edited it. All the reason you have given me to delete this article could be used to delete alot of other articles. 84.66.69.76 12:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Comment You are wrong I am afraid. The English Democrats have two members who are elected councillors, as do the England First Party. The English Democrats, certainly, have received a certain amount of publicity and many people have heard of them. Not sure about the English First Party - I've personally never heard of them.
      - If you think other articles should be deleted feel free to propose them - but that isn't an argument for keeping this one. --SandyDancer 12:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Well, he didn't create it that I can tell, also note his recent activities on the article have largely consisted of repeatedly removing mentions of its electoral failures, which still has yet to be explained despite many many requests; combined with adding unverifiable material. Given the almost total lack of secondary source material about the party, I don't see why it shouldn't be deleted. If it gets a single councillor my position may change. Comparisons to English Democrats are specious : that party, for better or worse, has had far more press coverage and for that matter candidacies. Morwen - Talk 12:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete I am English and have never heard of this party. Neither the party nor its founder score significantly on the Google test. Having gone to the trouble fo putting their accounts in External Links, the figures confirm that the party is vanishingly insignificant with their year's total income of around £2,000. The party has no elected representatives, at any level, and if that ever changes tere will probably be some millinery consumption going on. In short: a one man band, and the one man does not appear to be notable as a result (unlike, say, Bill Boaks, whose quixotic parliamentary campaigns got him a good deal of notice). Guy 12:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. A small party they may be but so are a lot of the other parties covered on Wikipedia. Plus the article doesn't mention that they stood in the Ipswich by-election, 2001, meaning that in their current form they have fought two elections and fave been active for five years. If this one goes a lot of others will follow and Wikipedia will lose valuable content on minor parties as a result. Keresaspa 13:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- note the reason it doesn't have that is that one of their supporters kept removing it, apparently because the party is embarrassed by the result. Morwen - Talk 13:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - there are few political parties quite as insignificant as this that have pages on Wikipedia, so I doubt we'd be in much danger of losing lots of valued info. This was one fails jutst about any notability criteria you throw at it --SandyDancer 13:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
    - I wont have a cow if this goes but I do fear that it will set a precedent and soon the likes of the Reform 2000 Party, the Christian Democratic Party (UK), The New Party (UK) and the Fellowship Party will follow on the same basis. Minor parties are an important part of democractic politics and I feel belong here. The EIP are not really what I'm worried about, more the fact that getting rid of them will mean than all minor parties become fair game for deletion. Keresaspa 14:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Not embarrassed. The man who stood in the election was not an EIP member, but somebody who conned the party. R johnson 19:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
    - RJohnson, can you please let the rest of us know your role in this party? It seems to me you are using Wikipedia to create the impression that a virtually non-existent political party is in fact active and notable, which it clearly isn't.
      Wikipedia should be about things that are already notable - it should be used as a tool to promote things that aren't. --SandyDancer 17:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Whether the content is valuable is beside the point. Whether the content is verifiable is, however. One of the points raised in the nomination is that there are no sources other than the party's own web site for anything except the election result, which should of course be mentioned in the result table for the election, and already is. To justify having more than just a single line in a results table, there needs to be source material from independent sources that is itself more than just a single line in a list of election results. There isn't such material. Coverage such as this is just 1 line in an election results table.
  Moreover, this article's description of this political party makes for good reading, indicating as it does that nobody knows anything about this party apart from rumours and what is on its web site, and they don't trust that:
  
  "Not much is known about this party, although sources have told us that they stand for a white England. We have also been informed that this party does not agree with Immigration or a multi-cultural society, so it seems this party could be more on the lines of an English BNP. This information however could be incorrect, and we cannot verify this as there is no E-mail address on the web site etc. Anyway, to judge for yourself, visit the link."
  
  The size of the party, which you are also trying to make the focus of the discussion, is also beside the point. To warrant an encyclopaedia article, we need more material than just 1 single web site published by the party itself, which is all that is available here. Wikipedia is not a soapbox for simply re-hashing a political party's own propaganda. But without any independent sources whatsoever, that is the only thing that an article on this party can ever be.
  The 1 line in the election results table is all that can be found outside of Wikipedia, and is all that should be found inside Wikipedia. Uncle G 14:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

`RJohnson, can you please let the rest of us know your role in this party? It seems to me you are using Wikipedia to create the impression that a virtually non-existent political party is in fact active and notable, which it clearly isn't.

Wikipedia should be about things that are already notable - it should be used as a tool to promote things that aren't.`

I'm not a member of the party if that was what you ment. It is not non-existent it is active, the EFP has never been in the paper are you going to delete there article after this? The Englanf First Party and English Democrats both have few if no referances so I find deleteing this article for that reason is poor. The UEP description is very old it was written when the party didn't have a website and you could only call Christopher Nickerson to find out anything, i have email the admin of UEP to update the description and nothing is ever done. I honestly don't see the reason why you want it deleted. It is similar to the BNP but a little less racist, politicians find the EIP less extreme to talk with. Wikipedia plays host to alot of small "pointless" parties.
`One of the points raised in the nomination is that there are no sources other than the party's own web site`
Have you been on the EFP article? Did you notice there are only three referances. Can we refraine from editing the article until this is resolves. I've been criticises for such actions but your just as bad. R johnson 18:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Fine. Nominate that for deletion too then.

Wikipedia guidelines are clear on this kind of thing - if something isn't notable enough to have been written about by third parties, it isn't notable enough to be on here. This isn't a directory. --SandyDancer 19:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you going to delete all articles about small parties? I'd suggest your next target be Cymru Annibynnol a small Welsh party whos Electoral Commission statement of accounts stopped in 2003 leading me to believe it is defunct. But no your not i'd wager, because it's not about small parties or articles is it? It's about the English Independence Party, you either don't like the party or the article. I don't think it's worth getting into such a rant about such a small party. R johnson 19:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Look, I won't be drawn into a slanging match about this. If you have any argument why this page is notable enough to justify a Wikipedia article - and if you think verifiable content can be written - bearing in mind that it has never been mentioned once by third party source - please do present it. If not just accept the inevitable. I am not in favour of deleting notable minor political parties, even extremely small or unsuccessful ones. This one just isn't notable. --SandyDancer 19:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Are you really suggesting the Cymru Annibynnol are a notable party? I'm not trying to draw you into a slanging match. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by R johnson (talk • contribs) .

I expressed no opinion on that party and I am not interested in discussing it. If you have no arguments as to why this article should not be deleted, you are wasting your time posting. --SandyDancer 21:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - As per Morwen. I was interested in them because of their rather unusual view on English secession, but I guess if this was notable enough to get onto Wikipedia, it would also be notable enough to have more than one website mentioning it. Pfainuk 20:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- - Comment Why is this listed twice? Edison 00:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, despite this party contesting in the general elections, it doesn't assert much notability. With the sources given, it has a vague mention in the BBC articles and other sources come from its website. The party has not enough coverage by the media and it has very few obscure candidates. Even the founder himself is non-notable and there's no need for an article here on Wikipedia. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 04:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

How about we put this above the article like on the Serbia article?

{{:tl:unreferenced}} All the reasons you've given me to delete this article can be used to delete half of Wikipedia.

Lack of referances.

You could delete half of the articles of Wikipedia for a lack of referances.

Not notable.

You could easily delete 50% of articles about British political parties that have articles of Wikipedia. At least the EIP has a history. Until you provide a reason i'm unconvinced. I do not make it my business to accuse people but I believe you purely want to delete this article as a {{POV}} not a nuetral stance. R johnson 11:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Please stop with the paranoia. Please especially stop with the "I don't like to accuse people" stuff, when your very first response to this deletion debate was to accuse User:SandyDancer of wanting to delete the party because supposedly User:SandyDancer disagrees with the party (of which you provided no evidence).

The fact is there are NO independent sources about this party - and you keep removing bits you don't like or find embarrasing - repeatedly over and over abusing the minor edit feature and refusing to supply a reason. If anyone is using the article to POV push it is you.

The policies of the party in question have nothing to do with it. Other political party articles may not have references right now, but they are generally sourceable - the sources actually exist, and only remain to be added. This article has no good sources. Because there ARE NO GOOD SOURCES. You seem to have been adding information based on email with Nickerson, which is NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOURCE, as I have told you on your talk page. Morwen - Talk 12:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I notice he has removed the reference to the bad election result yet again[29]. However I am not inclined to revert because either way, this article needs to be deleted for all the reasons above. A proper article is impossible because there are no third party sources. --SandyDancer 21:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that we now have a consensus to delete and that since the 5 days has expired someone should be along soon to do so. Morwen - Talk 10:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Non-notable party, by and large, and as Morwen points out, there are no reliable sources that are good. There has been no headlines or publications relating to them that indicate general notability, and as such, this is an argument for deletion. Third-party sources, both as primary sources and secondary sources which assert notability are needed if this was to be kept. --SunStar Net 11:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Product (project management)

In project management, a product is functionally uindistinguishable from a product, whatever Eli Goldratt might say. Guy 15:31, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete insignificant part of a project management method that already has a comprehensive article at PRINCE2. Not notable in its own right QuiteUnusual 20:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete. This use of the word is already discussed in Product (business); some content from the current article could be merged there if appropriate. Dryman 14:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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Delete per Dryman meshach 19:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep and cleanup. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Durand

Bottom half is pretty much a copy from IMDB [30], and if he's most famous for a bit part in an unsuccessful TV show, then he fails WP:BIO. SteveLamacq43 16:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 16:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Weak keep with cleanup; he's got over 30 credits on IMDB, including both movies and television. Otherwise Merge with Dark Angel (TV series) — appearances in fifteen episodes of a show that only lasted three seasons suggests more than a "bit part". Xtifr _tälk 05:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete: his one main role, whilst more than a bit part, is not enough to pass WP:BIO. Also, it is clearly taken from IMDB. DavyJonesLocker 21:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep: He was a major character on Dark Angel, albeit one whose introduction has been blamed for causing the show to jump the shark, and it's possible a fan of Dark Angel (or one of the other shows he guest starred in) might want to find out more about the person behind the role. --Groggy Dice 03:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep DXRAW 02:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete: Doesn't abide by the following:
- Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers
- A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following
- An independent biography
- Name recognition
- Commercial endorsements. BertieBasset 13:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

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Keep and tag for cleanup. IMDB history shows numerous parts which rise above the level of walk-on. Merge to Dark Angel also works but does not require Super Powers^TM. Guy 12:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep I did some clean up, removed the blatant copyvios and added a few more credits gleaned from his imdb entry. Dina 12:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per JzG and other commenters above. Yamaguchi先生 04:47, 4 November 2006
Keep per above, but don't merge. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Has lots of notable credits. --Oakshade 05:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Techlogix

Doesn't seem to meet WP:CORP. —Scott5114 ↗ 17:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 18:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete I don't think it meets WP:CORP. Hello32020 19:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
WP:CORP first point say The company or corporation has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company or corporation itself.. There are many for this company.

A PC-world article on Jezba.
A research paper on its product Maestro Evaluation of Advanced Automotive Electrical System Architectures Using MAESTrO
Another research paper on Maestro MAESTrO - A Software Tool for the Design and Evaluation of advanced Automotive Electrical Power Systems
Another Newspaper article TECHLOGIX: BUILDING THE e-FUTURE
and another article Developers Unite Behind FlashPoint's Digita to Bridge Digital Imaging into Business Workflow

Hence may vote is ...

Keep: based on above. --- ابراهيم 11:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Based on the above, the reasonable conclusion seems to be to keep because those who suggest deletion do not specify why this article does not meet WP:CORP. Hence, I also vote to keep. --- User:wenhsiu November 2, 2006 (UTC)

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Delete reads as advertorial, replete with peacock terms, evidence of emetign WP:CORP is lacking, article is largely uncited and coverage cited looks like press releases. Could be fixed, but not without a good deal of work. Guy 12:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

If an article is not written in a good way then we improve it instead of deleting it. We delete an article when its subject is not at all encyclopaedic. I have given list of some publications that are not published by the company itself and I can find many more. That is sufficient to qualify for WP:CORP standards. --- ابراهيم 13:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep - Passes WP:CORP. A poorly written article needs to be improved, not deleted. Torinir _{( Ding my phone My support calls E-Support Options )} 22:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Torinir. --Oakshade 05:32, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete WP:CSD criterion G10 (attack). I am not sure I can find a version which does not egregiously violate WP:LIVING, but feel free to put one up if you can find it. Guy 12:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rupert Hoogewerf

This article has been edited many times since it was first created, but has never risen above what appears to malicious attacks on it subject. I have had difficulty in establishing whether Hoogewerf is a notable journalist. Two of the links in the article are to Chinese website which I can't read. Perhaps others will be able to attest to his notability, but so far this article hasn't. Emeraude 21:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete/merge into new Hurun Report article The Hurun Report is an encyclopedically notable "rich list" for China e.g.[31][32][33][. No article currently exists for the Hurun Report, though one should. However, I'm not sure about this founder - and in any case, the current article is an attack article on a living person, and so is liable to a speedy delete. There does seem to have been a breakup between Forbes and Hurun Report at some point but this article is potentially libellous. Btw, the Hurun Report has an English version website [34]. Bwithh 22:07, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ferdinand Rios

nn physician for wrestling promotion. A search for ("Ferdinand Rios" wwe) gets around 800 gits, but most of those are just repostings of stories where he explains the injuries (like "According to WWE physician Dr. Ferdinand Rios, Kennedy required more than 20 stitches to close the wound."). Has appeared briefly on camera a few times, but appears to fail WP:BIO Tony fanta 00:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete unsourced, fails WP:V --RoninBK_ETC 05:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep this guy is a character in a notable Professional Wrestling promotion, that's notable enough for me. Given that I can walk into the average supermarket and pick up a half dozen magazines, I suspect there's also more information on him, including whether or not he's a real doctor. FrozenPurpleCube 21:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment He isn't really a character, but he does appear on tv for brief periods on occasion if there is a medical issue that weaves into the storylines. I think the magazine analogy that you use is total crap as well. Tony fanta 07:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

He's a character. He appears on the show when it's appropriate. Fits my definition of wrestling character. That he's not on all the time means he is a minor character, which isn't surprising since he's not a wrestler, let alone a big name one. But is he any different from any of the other minor entries on World_Wrestling Entertainment roster ? I can't see how. Oh, and calling another editor's reasoning "total crap" is inappropriate as well. You can disagree without being uncivil. FrozenPurpleCube 14:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm right, and you're wrong, deal with it. They just have him on screen once in awhile if someones injury plays into a storyline, like stiching them up or giving a shot, for instance. On that roster page, I know for sure that 2 of the writers, Chris Dejoseph and Brian Gerwirtz have had their pages deleted, and they are probably more notable than this person. Being employed by the WWE does not garner instant notability. Tony fanta 15:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm right and you're wrong? That's not a convincing argument. Sorry. You might wish to leave such outbursts out of your replies. And while certainly being employed by the WWE doesn't garner notability, being on-screen in front of millions of people is another matter. It's be one thing if he was only on once, but the article itself indicates he's been on several times. That's more than enough notability for me. FrozenPurpleCube 22:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Tony, please remember WP:CIVIL. As FrozenPurpleCube said, you can disagree while remaining civil. - JNighthawk 16:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep Is a prominant performer in the very popular World Wrestling Entertainment circus. --Oakshade 06:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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Delete: Notability of the subject matter is only one of the criteria that we must consider. This is a terrible, unsourced, POV disaster. I want sources, sources, sources, and I want them to tell me: (1) is this a real man's name or is this a fictional character protrayed on the wrestling "circus"? (2) Is the man who is playing the part a real doctor? Where was he educated and where did he work before coming to the wonderful and convincingly authentic world of professional wrestling? (3)Who is this man's agent or representative and what other acting roles does he play? (4) a brief synopsis of this character's role in the soap opera drama that is acted out on the stage of the wrestling shows. Without this basic information all we have is POV fansite nonsense. If it's not an encyclopedic article, then it belongs someplace else, not Wikipedia. OfficeGirl 23:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, all of those points are useful information, and should be included in the article. However, lacking sources on them, all we could do is say we don't know. This doesn't mean nobody knows, as it is quite possible that the community of professional wrestling afficiandos (of which there are many) may well have a great deal of knowledge on him, from reliable sources. At the least, I'd expect somebody with at least some established authority to say "No, that sort of thing doesn't exist at all" before I'd agree with deletion. FrozenPurpleCube 05:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep DXRAW 13:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete A list of appearances equal to that you may find on a fansite is not for Wikipedia. The fact that he also goes under a different name puts into account OfficeGirl's point whether he is in fact a character or not. BertieBasset 15:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - per OfficeGirl's arguments - JNighthawk 16:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: Article has been expanded After searching WWE.com for the name Ferdinand Rios, I added all three of the results into the article. I also found two more thanks to Google. These articles quote Dr. Rios as a member of the WWE's medical staff. Whether or not any of the rest of the article is salveagable is still up for debate, but I would contend that the article could stay under WP:V --RoninBK_ETC 01:13, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Expanded further, rewriting to a more encyclopedic standard, and adding criticism article --RoninBK_ETC 02:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep krocker316
Note: Dr. Rios has been refered to as the "Team Doctor" on WWE Television, on their website, and in their magagzines, he was seen peforming minor surgery on camera.

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The result was delete. Dakota 22:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shenmue III

This article was already deleted on February: [35] and the situation has not improved since then. There have been no concrete evidence that the development of this game has begun. Mika1h 12:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Per nom. Chris Kreider 12:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete a mix of speculation, original research and dodgy sources. Guy 12:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Combination 12:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment - I know the article as it stands is quite awful, but the second series of the BBC Scotland show VideoGaiden is currently days away from starting, and one of the main recurring features this year will be a campaign to get Shenmue III produced. This campaign is gaining quite a bit of publicity on numerous forums, and the show has not even started yet. Perhaps we should wait to see the result of this campaign, first? --Dreaded Walrus 14:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Unfortunately the article is comprised entirely of speculation. The Kikizo article, the only source referenced, is old and obsolete. ˉˉ^anetode╦╩ 16:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been added to the list of CVG deletions. Mika1h 12:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletions. -- Wwryxz 21:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep as a notable and highly anticipated upcoming console game. Surely sources such as GameSpy and Kikizo are not considered dodgy. Yamaguchi先生 04:31, 4 November 2006

Shenmue Dojo is a fansite hosted by Gamespy. Gamespy editors got nothing do with the site. As for the Kikizo article, as pointed above, is old and obsolete. --Mika1h 08:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete. Article can be recreated if/when Shenmue III is officially announced. --Alan Au 09:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak keep per the mention in EGM. --- RockMFR 19:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, "inevitable" sequels are generally not noteworthy until officially confirmed. Garrett^Talk 03:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - WP:NOT a crystal ball, and per the precedent of Diablo 3. The Kinslayer 09:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was article no longer exists. Housekeeping. -bobby 16:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In Hawaii: FAL says Aloha

I found this whilst reviewing Special:Contributions/I is leo. It appears to be another hoax from this editor. It cites no sources. AllMusic Guide turns up no album with this title and no artist named "FAL". The title garners the magic one Google Web hit: this very article. Uncle G 12:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seema Aarella

Tagged for sources and verification since October 14. No sources/references provided. The only place where I could find her name is an ezine: SAWF. Delete as non-notable. utcursch | talk 12:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete, no support for notability. Dryman 14:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as a whatever the new PC term is. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete This is not even remotely designed to be an encyclopedia article. This article is just about a really nice lady with a really nice hobby. Poets are a dime a thousand these days, as are "international poetry contests." Notability has not been asserted or established. OfficeGirl 23:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above. Doctor Bruno 01:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Weak. --Wareq 07:44, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions. -- Doctor Bruno 01:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete-as per above.Nileena joseph 05:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep per rewrite. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Laurent Pariente

Violates WP:AUTO, creator was Laurent Pariente (talk · contribs). Contested prod. MER-C 12:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. The references seem to demonstrate notability. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 14:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete ~~- entirely copied from the subjects website, seems like a vanity article to me.michaelCurtis ^talk+ _{contributions} 14:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)~~

Keep per new changes, which rectifys copy problem. Well done to TruthbringerToronto! michaelCurtis ^talk+ _{contributions} 23:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

~~~~Delete~~ (see below) SPAM. Word-for-word from the artist's website. This is clearly not intended to be an encyclopedia article. OfficeGirl 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)~~
- Comment. I trimmed some text a few minutes ago. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 23:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Reply- I appreciate your desire to be an inclusionist, but I'm not sure this article is salvageable at this time. It needs to be torn to the ground completely and maybe someone can build a new one. Is anyone prepared to actually look at the third-party sources listed on the artist's website and draw information from them directly? Artists from the visual arts field tend to be horrible writers when it comes to factual pieces. This is a prime example. Notability is not the only criteria. Someone has to be prepared to do real research and write a good, encyclopedic article. If no one is ready, willing and able then we MUST delete and put this artist's name on the list of articles that are wanted but not created. Trimming the text won't be enough to keep this piece of copyright infringement. According to Wikipedia's very own Brad Patrick in shoot on sight, "draconic" measures are necessary to remove excessive vanity articles that threaten WP's credibility. This is one such article. OfficeGirl 01:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Comment. I did some further work on the bibliography to eliminate any remaining copyright infringement, discarding most of the material from the original article, and adding citations that I was able to verify myself. At this point, the article is more of a stub, but being a stub is not reason in itself for deletion. Laurent Pariente seems quite notable, based on all the evidence, and after all the pruning that has taken place, there's not much remaining of the original article. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 02:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Nice work. Looks stub-like to me. Copyright issues seem to be addressed. Keep per work done by TruthbringerToronto Kudos. OfficeGirl 02:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

keep I want to reply to Officegirl and MichaelCurtis: First Guitemie Maldonado and i wrote the presentation in my article. To my knowledge I don't see why this article is not encyclopedic. It's a very good introduction about my work which as all visual work is not easy to describe. Second there are a good deal of visual artists in the entire history who have been both tremendous visual artist and exceptional writers. I have myself written numerous articles on my work as well on other artists. Being a visual artist doesn't make me illiterate. Third, again if you consider the work worthwile as Truthbringer seemed to have understoond, you should give it a chance instead of trimming it like a bonzaï (I'm currently working in Japan), and be happy to have one more interesting creator becoming part of Wikipedia. Thanks.

keep Hello, I'm Laurent Pariente and I only put the information I had in hands right now. If you go to my website you would see I have done a lot of personal and creative work so far and all the information I put on Wikipedia is just mine and will grow with time. Deleting my article won't help growing the article. Thanks for your understanding.

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Special moments of Hungary's 1956 uprising

Non-encyclopedic title; whatever encyclopedic content it has belongs in the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 article. Delete. K issL 12:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - agree with above comment; also, the information is not referenced, so not suitable for Wikipedia. Authors(s) may want to move this material to a page on Wikia. Ryanjo 22:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete What constitutes a "special moment"? Is it just the authors POV? Also agree with KissL. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete but merge any verifiable event into the main article on the uprising. I can see where the writer is going with this, but it's unsourced and identifying a handful of incidents as "special" is irredeemably POV. Better to just include them in the main article -- where they are probably already mentioned if they're notable. 23skidoo 05:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge certain verifiable facts to Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Un-encyclopedic title. --MaNeMeBasat 14:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete everything here is unsourced and exhibits a strong POV. There is no place for any of this material in the FA Hungarian Revolution of 1956. --Paul 15:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, OR essay, unencyclopedic style. Sandstein 07:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Osman El-Rayis

Non notable bio Tamer Maged 12:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - 3 Google hits on English name (including WP page). 20 hits on Arabic name. No reliable sources. First link is to the university he works at, and it only verifies that he is a professor. Second link is to his personal geocities site. Nothing verifiable to indicate he's more notable than the average college professor. --Onorem 13:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Per onorem. Chris Kreider 13:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - I'm sure he's a fine university professor, but we don't keep articles on every professor out there. FreplySpang 14:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - 70+ hits on google Using "Prof. El-Rayis" Ahmed 16:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.215.232.148 (talk • contribs)

Comment - Which google are you using? "Prof. El-Rayis" returns 3 unique pages, and one of them is the article in question. Even if the number was 70, that still isn't very many hits. --Onorem 16:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reyner, Lord of Burgh Castle

The only source offered for this article is a book which the editor concerned (User:Burkem) says is unpublished; it is therefore not WP:V verifiable. Many (if not all) of this user's edits rely on genealogical material from discredited sources, and the user has now been blocked. This nomination follows the removal by Burkem of an earlier PROD; see the discussion at User talk:Burkem#Undoing_the_damage, where a major cleanup is underway. BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 13:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete original research per nom; nothing in this article can be relied upon and the main reason for creating it and claim to notability (supposedly the father of Hubert de Burgh and William de Burgh) is quite wrong. What's left is a genealogical entry, and Wikipedia isn't for those. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete. As above. - Kittybrewster 14:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. per Angus McLellan ~~ Phoe _talk 14:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC) ~~
Delete per nominator, one in a series of non-verifiable articles created by an editor who was recently banned for repeatedly posting hoaxes. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 18:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per all above, this article and any of its imaginary descendants. Tubezone 07:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment: see User:Burkem/review_list for an annotated listing of this users's edits. Any help in completing the process would be welcome! --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 10:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete — unreliable contribution. — ERcheck (talk) 14:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, and see Walter, Lord of Burgh Castle, John, Lord of Burgh Castle and Lord of Burgh Castle -- lucasbfr ^talk 18:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jeff Seeton

Nothing more than an advertorial for a candidate in an upcoming municipal election. Does not meet the minimum standards in WP:BIO. Candidates for local office are not notable, and Mr. Seeton does not appear to be notable enough for other reasons to merit an encyclopedia entry. Skeezix1000 13:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - If for nothing more than originial respearc and POV. If some sources were cited, I would have to retract my delete nom though. Chris Kreider 13:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - The article's claim to notability is largely based on Seeton's political career. It even goes so far as to state (in reference to the 2000 Ottawa Bay Ward City Council elections) "He had an extremely strong showing for a first time candidate but lost that election to Cullen." Reading this, I was led to believe that the dark horse really challanged the incumbent and lost in a norrow victory, which could have helped the claim for notability. However, after reading up on the mentioned election, I learned that Seeton placed 4th in the race with a mere 550 votes (3.67%) whereas the winner held 7191 votes (48.02%) and the runner up got 6262 (41.82%). This strikes me as a misleading statement in an article about a candidate who already seems non-notable. -bobby 16:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete nn local political candidate. I realize truth in politics is a rare thing, but 550 votes is not a "strong showing". Delete this political ad with extreme prejudice. Resolute 17:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I would say that any deletion should be without prejudice to the recreation of the article should Mr. Seeton do something that meets the criteria of WP:BIO. Skeezix1000 18:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - Of course. We would just want to make sure that the recreated article is not biased. -bobby 19:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. The current article (even if it met WP:BIO) is unsourced and violates WP:NPOV. Skeezix1000 19:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

changes have been made to this article and is looking better to me, it provides resources and dropped the line about "a strong showing" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.230.28.125 (talk • contribs) .

The article is still full of POV ("well known in political circles for his forward thinking", "Seeton is campaigning on bringing new ideas to Kanata North", "He will garner allot of support from those who are concerned with the environment, transit, as well as their bottom line", etc.), not to mention unsourced statements. BTW, Mr. Seeton's own web site likely does not constitute the verifiable, reliable source that is required (see WP:V). I'm not sure how www.wikipedia.org, or the intro page of the City's own website, constitute sources for any of the statements in this article. Finally, the criteria in WP:BIO has not been addressed. Skeezix1000 15:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Fails every test of WP:BIO, Municipal candidates are unencyclopedic if being a candidate is their only claim to notability. -- Chabuk ^{[ T • C ]} 23:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete if anyone needs content from this article for a merge, let me know. W.marsh 16:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BUECU

Delete - clearly nn, vanity. This is an article for a minor group that used to be a society at BUGS but got chucked out for severe breach of the constitution. This event itself is noteworthy, but is discussed in depth on the BUGS page, so the group doesn't justify its own page. LeeWhittaker 13:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Article makes assertion of non-notabiliuty by cliaming it is 1 of hundereds of such organizations. Chris Kreider 13:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge anything useful into the main BUGS article. I've had to fight off two waves of vandals over this article originating from the IP's correlating to that university, so this article will be a smoking wreck if not deleted anyway. --In ur base, killing ur dorfs 14:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Maybe keep - Valid point about the fact that vandalism - however, if they're IP's correlating to the uni, I suspect they were the same vandal (the vandalised discussion page seemed to imply the same thing) and that said person will grow up and get bored of trolling fairly soon. My only hesitation is that there's a feeling at BUECU (I'm associated with them - my job involves supporting evangelical theology students at Brum uni, and to a lesser extent BUECU as part of that), including among the exec, that legal action may be necessary in order to return to the guild (and possibly retain the funds - the guild have promised to return it on certain criteria, basically fulfilled, but they stalled and I don't know if they have yet). Legal advice has indicated that BUECU is 99% likely to win and thus the guild will - a number of high-ranking Christian lawyers are eager for BUECU to do this, in fact, in order to set a precedent throughout the country, which would be a particularly notable event, and not easily able to be fitted into the existing BUGS article, unless it was significant. This may easily happen in the next few months, and would possibly be rather notable. I don't know if it's easily possible to resurrect old articles, but that might be something worth bearing in mind in the deletion process. But as it stands, I think the fact that the event is discussed on the BUGS page is a good point.TheologyJohn 15:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete or merge with UCCF - Seems very vandal prone, by someone who obviously isn't a fan of the group but that in itself is not reason to delete. I think BUECU would be able to get the funds, which they should be getting, but they won't be able to get back in as they made virtually no effort to comply with the BUGS constitution, whether for the right or wrong reasons being a long debate. The BUGS constitution making it clear that all processes must be democratic and that societies can't discriminate, and all other societies have got back in line. I don't feel two sentences about a group of which there are hundreds similar nationwide merits a whole article, hence I've suggested deletion or incorporation into UCCF. The only part relevant to BUGS is already there, under controversy, I don't think a disaffiliated group needs mentioning over the 160+ current societies James Bowes 15:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
No change from my previous ambiguous feeling - James, I'm aware that the guild are acting entirely in accordance with their constitution (which does allow them to make exceptions, e.g. Niteline, I understand), the legal question is about more than whether that's the case - the guild constitution goes against government guidelines etc, and the lawyers verdict is that we're 99% likely to win an order to the guild to force us back in (presumably by ammending the constitution). I disagree with some of your comments about the rights and wrongs about BUECU's relationship with the guild, but I think that's a whole other debate, and if it's worth having is better carried out in person rather than in this particular context! (The fence between our gardens alright for you!;) ) I have no idea whether or not the funds have yet been returned, but I know the guild stalled for a long time. So basically no strong feelings about whether or not the article should exist, but wanting to raise the particular point and counteract your counter-point. :)TheologyJohn 16:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Disturbing comment - nominator has no other history aside from nominating this article. Registered yesterday?It's very difficult to assume good faith when the first act of an editor is to nominate something for deletion. --Shrieking Harpy ^Talk^|^Count 16:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Disturbing comment justified - the IP of the poster is very close to that of the previous vandal of the site. That said, while it's helpful that the motives of the proposor of the deletion are thus highly dubious, I do think it's a legitimate question as to whether BUECU has sufficient significance by wikipedia criteria to have it's own article. (Not that I have any particular answer.) Although it is questionable as to whether it's likely to encourage vandalism and trolling by actually bowing to their requests. TheologyJohn 17:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Redirect to the BUGS article Normal practice is to merge student groups to the relevant university or school, unless there is overwhelming evidence of notability. We have two independent published sources about the controversy, but none about the group. So notability isn't overwhelmingly established. If BUGS is the right place to take it for a UK group, fine by me. And it is already there, checking the Wikilink from the article. I remember a similar incident at Tufts University in the States a few years back that got plenty of media coverage, but don't think that group would notable either. GRBerry 03:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Teen Empowerment

Was {{prod}}'d as nn-org, but the talk page indicates it survived an AFD. Let's see what the flagpole says now. UtherSRG (talk) 13:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep - Makes assertion of notability in claiming it published a book. Sounds somewhat notable. If i lived in the area and wanted information on the group, i might check wikipedia for it. Needs cleanup and some cites though. Chris Kreider 13:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - No related google news hits seems to indicate that the org doesn't meet current notability standards which require that the org has significant independant media coverage, or is an English Men's Football club. As for the book, it's amazon rank of about a half million makes the author notable. However, under the above cited guidelines, an organization is not notable simply because it has notable members. -bobby 15:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per -bobby. Valrith 21:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per Bobby. Sandstein 08:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of people predominantly seen wearing sunglasses

A list, of which two entries are cited (and one more is probably unambiguous given that Roy Orbison's biographers tell the story of the sunglasses). But really, is the topic of people who are ususally seen wearing shades encyclopaedic? If so, is it encyclopaedic enough to support a list? Anyway, what constitutes sunglasses? Any tinted spectacles? If so tha Galaghers are in, but so are half the people who achieved fame in the 70s. In the end I think this is too random a subject. Guy 14:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Listcruft with no clear criteria. Caknuck 15:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Agreed that it is much too random. The blind people in it hardly count as their glasses are medical whilst other such as Jon Bon Jovi are seen all the time without sunglasses. Maybe merge a little bit of it into the sunglasses article (such as a section like 'Iconic sunglasses wearers' or something) but otherwise delete. Keresaspa 15:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. original research, unverifiable, etc. How are you going to define "predominantly" from a neutral point of view? Chick Bowen 15:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete When I was young I had to wear sunglasses for medical reasons, but this is clearly not referring to people with rare eye defects. It's just about a fashion choice and those can change pretty fast.--T. Anthony 16:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as unmaintainable and absurd. The possible parent list List of people predominantly seen wearing clothes would have been a funnier joke. :) Xoloz 16:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Or how about List of people predominantly seen not wearing clothes? JChap2007 18:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Per nom and above comments. Chris Kreider 16:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as downright silly, and they forgot Johnny Cage! :) Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per obvious problems with "predominantly seen" and general lack of encyclopedic value. JChap2007 18:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. 23skidoo 20:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Inherent listcruft. EVula 20:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Listcruft, and again who cares. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete.This unreferenced list originally cluttered Sunglasses. It took up over 50% of the article, so I moved it here and set up the layout hoping to make it easy for references to be added by those who did care. Those who have contributed to the list don't seem able to make it comply with WP:V, so get rid of it. As above, the list does not appear to be maintainable and "predominantly" is POV. -AED 23:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Just daft. --Wareq 07:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete indiscriminate. Ohconfucius 04:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete. Glen 12:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rocky (Spongebob Squarepants character)

Critical analysis of a running gag from a single Spongebob episode. Useless even as a redirect. Delete. JayMars 15:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - per the reasons above. A character that appears for a minute on a TV show does not meet notability guidelines. -bobby 15:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Per Nom. Chris Kreider 16:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Not notable in any way, shape, or form. EVula 20:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Cbrown1023 22:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above reasons. Also seems to be a bit of a joke- "How Rocky, being an inanimate object, raced to the finish line is still unsettled". Can be mentioned in the Spongebob article. CattleGirl ^{talk | e@ | review me!} 08:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Delete - Yomangani ^talk 13:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bourdela.com

Article was nominated for speedy deletion for a lack of context, but that doesn't apply. The notability of this site is asserted, but not (yet?) referenced. It is pov, promotional, but too soft for spam. Basically, none of the speedy tags apply for this article, so I'm moving this to AfD instead. No opinion. A ecis ^{Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.} 15:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Further information: the site has a global Alexa ranking of 17,020 and a Greek Alexa ranking of 73. A ecis ^{Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.} 15:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This article was not created to promote the website. I do not have a reason to create a english-language article to promote a greek website. Please do not delete this article. My intentions are to provide a entry about this website to Wikipedia for informational purposes.

The text of the article will be soon updated with more info about paid-sex and information on whore-houses from the ancient times of Greece. ~~Alex~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sectoras (talk • contribs)

Delete as it is now - The above poster pretty much states my reasons for deletion. Why would somebody browsing english Wikipedia need info about a Greek website? If the above poster manages to provide significant content and sources to remove the seeming commercial tone I'll reconsider. -bobby 15:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, should I add this in the Greek wikipedia?

Also, the website has also international visitors (people who are looking for information in Greece). Also, I have seen tons of other english-language articles, about greek websites/celebrities/people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sectoras (talk • contribs)

Please sign your comments, using four ~'s, like so: ~~~~. Thank you, A ecis ^{Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.} 15:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, testing Sectoras 15:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

- Reply - I think based on the top-100 that this article would surely be relevant to the Greek language Wikipedia. Could you cite some of these other sites you mention so I can do some comparisons? Your Alexa rank in the top 20K is certainly not something to be taken lightly, so if you can provide me with a good argument as to why this article should stay, I'll gladly support you. -bobby 16:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that you should keep the article in order to provide informantion and link source as a guide to paid sex services and, of course, as a complete walkthrough to greek adult life style and market. ~~(Kostas)~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sectoras (talk • contribs)

Attention - The above comment was actually made by Sectoras. Check the page history for verification. -bobby 16:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

As above stated from Kostas, this website provides a general walk-through to the visitors coming to Greece. We have seen tons of people visiting the website to find information about Greece. It Wikipedia's purpose is to have useful information, then i think this article is directly related.

Other than that, i will be soon updating this article and provide *complete* information about one of the world's earliers profession (prostitutes), and how that influenced ancient Greece and their people. bourdela.com is the ONLY website related to that. You mentioned some other websites, but i did not understand, please explain. Thanx. Sectoras 16:21, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - I must say that engaging in sock puppetry does not lend creedence to your argument. All it tells me is that your article is not strong enough to garner support from anyone other than its creator. Please do not attempt to misrepresent yourself in the future. Thanks. -bobby 16:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This is inaccurate. This comment WAS made by another person, who did not know how to post a comment in here and did post his comment on the bourdela.com article, i just did a copy/paste to include his commment in this history. Sectoras 16:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Please be serious - there is an edit history so it's clear who posted what -and you have signed you replies on this page in four different ways. You are not being honest.

Revision as of 2006-11-03T12:15:43 - you add the word comments signed (Kostas) Revision as of 2006-11-03T12:21:52 - you add (copy-paste)

I have since amended them to clarify your posts

--ArmadilloFromHell 16:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - Perhaps I did not assume good faith Sectoras and for that I apologize. It just seemed a bit suspicious to me since you made the edits at two seperate times and neglected to mention why Kostas did not post his or her own reply. That matter aside, Kosta's comment states that the article should be kept as a link/guide to sex in Greece. I will remind him/her and you that Wikipedia is not a directory and also that advertising on Wikipedia is grounds for speedy deletion. Please state your justifications with these guidleines in mind. -bobby 17:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Smells of spam. Unsourced, unverifiable. EVula 20:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete mainly since the target site is not of much use unless you speak Greek, unless you just want to peruse the images there, and Wiki is not a directory of titillating pictures. On top of that it's probably spam. --ArmadilloFromHell 20:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete a7, no assertion of notability. NawlinWiki 16:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British Christian Socialist Party

As User:SmokeyTheFatCat notes on his userpage. "I have even thought of founding a British Christian Socialist Party". He then creates, a few months later, this article, which asks people to join it. Wikipedia is not a recruiting tool. If I need continue, then I shall note that the only two google hits for the name of the party are his userpage and a reference to an apparently unrelated historic political party in 1837. Furthermore, the party has not (yet) been registered with the Electoral Commission. If this party gets off the ground and we can find secondary sources about it, great, we can have an article about it. But no sources exist at all at present. Morwen - Talk 15:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Delete - as blatent (and admitted) advertising. Tagged as such. -bobby 16:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. W.marsh 16:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interference.com

Fails WP:WEB. No awards, no well-known distributer, and I'm not able to find any stories about this site from independent reliable sources, let alone multiple. The author seems to be asserting its notability on the basis of the number of registered users, which is not a valid criterion. Kafziel ^Talk 15:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - It's rank of 40,873 on Alexa isn't bad, but it's not enough to justify notability unless there were significant media coverage of the site (which I couldn't find evidence of). -bobby 16:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep - Article asserts notability as largest fan club. Only 1 can be the largest. However, claims are unsubstantiated so do not know how true they are. Chris Kreider 16:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Assertion of notability is only valid for avoiding speedy deletion, not AfD. AfD requires proof of notability. Even if they can prove it's the biggest, superlatives aren't part of the criteria for notability of websites; someone might have the only fan club for some incredibly obscure actor, but the site doesn't get its own article just because it's the biggest. Kafziel ^Talk 17:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. W.marsh 00:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robert Rivera

Contested WP:PROD. Original PROD reason: "(1) subject of article is non-notable; (2) article is very POV; (3) article seems to basically be a rewrite of the website listed at the bottom and does not otherwise cite any sources". Someone appears to have meant to add this to AfD but didn't complete the process. No opinion. —Wrathchild ^(talk) 15:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

del Mukadderat 19:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep To quote WP:BIO: "Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events, such as by being assassinated". Dunno what the precedent for this type of bio article is, though. EVula 20:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Delete (G10, see below) Per EVula, subject possibly meets notability requirement by being the subject of a notable court case. The article, however, fails to cite reputable sources or maintain neutral POV. This site [36] has a completely different telling of the story, but none of the disputed facts are presented neutrally. More importantly, the article accuses a law officer of perjury, coercing witnesses and fabricating evidence, which may be considered libelous if not cited and/or proven in court. I say speedy this b/c of the attack/libel issue. Caknuck 21:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep. Disputed murder convictions is a well accepted topic. Robert Rivera was very newsworthy when his case was active. The Delaware County Daily Times (circulation 160,000+) featured him on the front page many times and lists over 70 articles about him. The site is backed up by trial transcripts and police reports recorded by government officials. The items involving the law officer mentioned are backed up by the transcripts and reports. No conviction can be disputed unless there is some contention that the prosecution's case is false. Prosecution witnesses cannot sue for libel because someone contests their testimony. There is no libel issue here.

Users are free to contest specifics and rewrite sections they think are unsupported. Something could be wrong, but no one has found any specifics. This article violates the POV of some users who want to censor by deleting any mention that government prosecutors are capable of error. Wikipedia does contain many articles on individuals who were legitimately convicted. I am not aware that they are contested on POV grounds because they fail to cite that prosecutors sometimes make mistakes. Wikipedia should contain accurate facts, not just puff pieces of a world viewed through rose-colored glasses. --Danras 19:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Danras, I don't believe that Wikipedia is any more biased than the rest of society when it comes to highly controversial cases. It's not that we want to censor opposing viewpoints, it's just that those viewpoints need to be independently documented. The only reference you currently offer is the robertrivera1.com website, which for the most part only presents one POV. If you can add in other references, such as press coverage and opposition writings, this article has a better chance of surviving. Check out Mumia Abu-Jamal's article for an example of the kind of article you want to write. Even though the Abu-Jamal article still has neutrality problems, it is much more well-documented than the current Rivera article. --RoninBK_ETC 03:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment If the "items involving the law officer mentioned are backed up by the transcripts and reports", then cite them. Official court documents are legitimate sources. But if the court permitted certain evidence and testimony that is in dispute, then the reason and source of the dispute needs to be referenced. Also, language like "fabricated circumstantial evidence", "snitch story" and "fabricated confession" without substantiation shows "opinion and bias" and thusly violates WP:POV, and potentially WP:LIBEL. If you can cite legitimate sources that show the prosecution acted in bad faith, then do so and I'll withdraw my objection. But as it stands, this article cannot survive as is when [37] and [38] (both equally spurious sources) tell completely different versions of the events, but the WP article only chonicles one side. Caknuck 08:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep per the WP:BIO "newsworthy events" clause. --Oakshade 05:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. Not a common or garden murder case, and therefore notable. Yes, it's POV, but POV can be changed. That is no reason to delete the article. -- Necrothesp 16:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep but tag for clean up. Agne 23:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adams Ranch

This artice was speedy deleted under CSD A7. At DRV, the deleting admin consented to a listing at AfD to resolve the question. This is a procedural nomination, so I abstain. Xoloz 16:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Article fails notability guidelines for a company. It has 6 google news hits, but it is not the subject of any of the articles. I could also find no evidence that its stock (if it has stock) prices are used to calculate any major market index. On top of all of these, the article still does not assert a claim to notability, which means it is still eligible for speedy deletion per article 7. In the interest of respecting the DRV, I won't tag it as such. -bobby 16:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Weak Keep - per modifications made. I'm still not entirely sure about the notability, but since people are making an effort I see no reason to send it away just yet. →bobby← 20:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Article does not assert notability of ranch. I am sure there are hundreds of ranches run by families. Chris Kreider 16:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Delete —~~ Weak Keep ~~per all above, and by the lack of sources, could well be OR~~ per TT's additions, though I feel that it needs an unambiguous statement of notability in the article text. M a rtinp23 ~~23:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)~~ 00:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I discourage this because I think it will only result in the insertion of useless boilerplate notability assertions into articles, and severely damage our ability to be concise. Un focused 00:23, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I realise the problem, though WP:NN does say that an article must assert its notability - it's really not something I like, because people could well start typing "this is notable because.....". Ah well... M a rtinp23 00:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:N is a guideline, not policy, in part because of the point I was just making. Regarding this article, if you lived in the area, found out about "Adams Ranch" and wanted to know more, where would you go? Why not here? We aren't running out of paper, bandwidth, or database space, and quite frankly, a ranch that spans several counties and has been in operation for so many years is becoming more notable every day, given that they're all being assimilated into megafarms. Un focused 00:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

~~Delete~~ I don't see how this ranch is more notable than others. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per TT's edits. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. I found the sources that the article needs to demonstrate notability. -- TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 00:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per TT's addition to the article. Damn, he's good. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
keep. The version I see is a fine addition to the encyclopedia. Un focused 00:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Added another reference. Edison 00:58, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per the wonderful expansions made by our community. Yamaguchi先生 04:57, 4 November 2006

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The result was Delete - no reason it can't be recreated if reliable sources can be provided. Yomangani ^talk 13:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not in Portland (Lost)

Article is for a rumored future episode of Lost (TV series). It contains no referenced information, only unsubstantiated rumors. Violates Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Milo H Minderbinder 16:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. PKtm 16:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete as WP:NOT a crystalball.--Isotope23 16:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - per above. When the air date gets closer, it will need to be re-created, so I suggest one of the Lost fanatics userfy this to avoid extra work in the future. -bobby 16:37, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete My crystal ball says this will be deleted. EVula 20:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete, per above. S e rgeantBolt (t,c) 21:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak keep. There seems to be enough information on the web that this is the title, that it's a Juliet-centric episode, and that's it been written by Jeff Pinkner. [39]. The source listed here is the "Ask Ausiello" section of the New Zealand TV Guide [40]. Though I realize this is tenuous, it's good enough for me. Plus it seems like it would be a waste of time for us to delete this article, simply to re-create it in a short period of time. --Elonka 21:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment There are certainly websites saying this, but are they reliable sources? One seems to be a fansite with no documentation on where the got the info, and the other is a blog that doesn't even say the title came from the Ausiello Report (which is a rumor column, not a reliable source either). This title certainly is rumored, but I don't see how it can be seen as encyclopediac fact, especially when rumors from these kinds of sites is often wrong. --Milo H Minderbinder 21:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per WP:NOT a crystal ball, with no prejudice against recreation if it is revealed to be an actual episode. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment I'm not there either; certainly wish I was. --Wareq 07:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep We may consider this a rumor, but in our hearts we all know that this information is true. Maybe we should not add it to the season three template or to the episode list, but keep it in the background because it will be recreated in a few months anyway. --theDemonHog 20:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete -- Stephen Colbert may base truthiness on what's in his gut, but we don't base articles on what's "in our hearts". As the nom noted, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball.--Leflyman^Talk 20:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, but add references - This information is pretty well known to be fact by all reliable and available sources. There are 1000s of wikipedia articles with outright lies in them, most of this information can be substantiated on external links. Crystal Ball? This article was created after various sources suggested this content. There will be an Olympics in London in 2012, should we not post an article on that either? Testerer 18:39, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment: That's the point: If it's "pretty well known to be fact" then it should be simple to verify -- yet there are no "reliable and available sources" for this rumoured episode title. Wikipedia does not publish articles on rumours or speculation. --Leflyman^Talk 18:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment If "this information can be substantiated on external links", just provide those links. And the question isn't whether there will be an episode 307 of Lost, but whether this title (and other facts) are verifiable. --Milo H Minderbinder 19:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Abstain: The article doesn't have good enough citation but equally rumoured episode titles this year have actually been 100% accurate, so this will probably be the 3x07 title. However, yes in terms of policy IMO it isn't a good enough source --Nickb123 3rd 10:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, if references can be found. Riverbend 19:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was MERGE into Manhunt, as no objections to this were offered. Herostratus 06:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jon Jonsson

Fails notability Otto4711 16:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Also nominating these related articles also for failing notability.

Merge All and Redirect - into the main Manhunt article. Since in each case it seems they were only known for their role on the show, it seems to me we should place them there. Also note that the article for the show is quite short, and adding the character bios would help to expand it nicely. -bobby 16:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
merge and redirect per bobby. Zeromacnoo 13:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was speedy keep. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barouh Berkovits

Creating deletion discussion page for Barouh Berkovits because there are a lot of people involved in the development of pacemakers and ICDs (Many of whom are more notable than Barouh Berkovits), and they should be mentioned in the history sections of those articles. Ksheka 16:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Keep/Close The biography linked to from the article seems to establish sufficient notability for me (patented the direct current defibrillator, invented the demand pacemaker, holds thirty-six patents in cardiac pacing techniques). Your objection to this article seems to have nothing to do with the merits of this article, but that other people should have articles. Then make those articles; AfD isn't the place to complain about missing content in other articles. EVula 19:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Keep This guy has saved thousands, perhaps millions of lives. Article could use expanding, but let's end this AfD soon. --Oakshade 05:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. W.marsh 16:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music of South Florida

Creator of article keeps restoring unsourced and off-topic information, but when you remove the cruft, this non-notable article is nothing but a one-sentence stub. "Music of South Florida" hasn't been demonstrated to deserve an article all its own, and the creator seems intent on making this a vanity article that promotes persons, styles, slang, etc. which do not fall under the topic. wikipediatrix 16:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

~~Delete~~Undecided pending Cleanup ~~per nom~~. I can find no evidence that Music of South Florida differs from Music of West Texas or Music of East Michigan. All you can really say about such a topic is "This area has many diverse musical tastes and is home to a variety of DJs and EmCees." As always, if somebody wants to point to some source which identifies the music of the lower peninsula as being quite unique and significant in it's own right, I'll happily rethink my position. -bobby 16:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment- I dunno, -bobby, looks like the "Donk" scene in South Florida may be fairly unique...Dreadstar ☥ 17:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Above comment modified to remove proposed deletion in favor of giving the article time. -bobby 17:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep per Captaintruth below!. The article can be greatly expanded, give it a stub tag and give the article some time to grow. Actually, I'm not the creator of this article - but I am seeing if I can source this article properly. I've asked for some time to do so, but Wikipediatrix seems to be a bit impatient. When this article was created, I along with several other editors, assisted a new editor in some technical aspects of creating this particular article. I think there may be some value to this one, and I'm trying to explore the background of this particular music scene. I think this article may be something that can be sourced and expanded like the article on Southern rap, which has sections on "spirituality" "typical features" and things besides just the music. I think it's an interesting article on a regional social style and should be given a chance. ~~Perhaps it needs a change of title? "South Florida Donk Donk" perhaps?~~ :) Dreadstar ☥ 17:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment. In the small amount of investigation I’ve been able to pursue over the past few days while I recover from surgery, it looks like South Florida, specifically Miami, is a major, innovative and unique hotspot for music from the State of Florida. I think I understand what User talk:Patience561 was trying to say and I don’t think Music of Florida quite does the southern region of Florida justice. I believe there may be sufficient material for “Music of South Florida” to have its own article. With the heavy influence of Cuban and Latino music added to the innovative and unique Rap style of the area, further mixing in southern rock, and a country heritage that brings a unique blend of sounds out of the southern Florida region, it looks like a “Music of South Florida” article could be rich with interesting and unique information.

But I can’t do it in five (or less) days, so I must concede the deletion of the article. I just ask that it not be a “permanent” delete so that the article can be re-created if I or others eventually expand and source it.

With this in mind, I’ve moved the “Donk” related material (or “cruft” as Wikipediatrix so eloquently calls it!) to Donk (automobile) and connected the bits of the South Florida music scene between Southern rap and Donk, so the resultant one-liner-content article “Music of South Florida” can now be deleted without my further objection – unless Bobby or Junebug52 have found anything of value to add – I’d be happy to join them in expanding the article! Dreadstar ☥ 15:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment. Now that Captaintruth has begun expanding and sourcing the article, I think we should take the suggested course of action, keep the article, give it a stub tag and allow it time to grow. South Florida is an amazingly rich and unique musical environment. Give it time! Dreadstar ☥ 16:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

- Comment - I understand your desire to clean up and save this article. From the history, it looks as if you have been fighting this battle largely on your own since the other main editor stopped tending the page in July. Maybe a change of title would help the article more than a tone of work. The AfD will be open for several days (at least 5 in most cases) which should give you a bit of time to work on it. The AfD nomination will also bring quite a bit of support from Wikipedia Inclusionists who will help you clean up the article. I'll do some poking around on my own to see what support I can give you. In the mean time, I'll hold off judgement by changing my proposed delete to an undecided. -bobby 17:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep ~~I see no significance. I agree with -bobby assessment.~~ Junebug52 12:17, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- - - Comment I changed my vote to keep the article now that I see it is starting to shape up and has more significant material. I further agree that it should keep going in the direction it is going but I also feel other editors should get involved so this does not turn into a one man show. There are certainly other editors who know about the music of the area and the people who make it happen. Keep up the good work! Junebug52 8:28, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

- - - Comment - Dreadstar I have to say that I am on the fence with this one. I think it would help if you did change the title and also research to see if there are other significant artist that can be added to support the claims. I will reserve my deletion until a later time to see if the article can be modified to fit wiki standards. If you need help, I will be glad to see what I can do seeing that I was actually raised in Fort Lauderdale. Junebug52 12:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Comment - Thank you so much Junebug52! I could really use your help in sourcing this! Can we discuss the article on it's talk page? I'm looking for sources, but my time is limited. I'm recovering from major surgery and don't really have the stamina to sit in front of the computer too long just yet. Bad timing....:) What should the title be changed to? How do do I do that? Create a new article and move the contents of this one, or ask an admin to change it? Suggestions on a new title are welcome! Looks like the "Donk Donk" content is easily sourcable...what are your thoughts on a title based on Donk..:) Many thanks to you and Bobby both for your offers of help! It's great to see the helpful nature of Wikipedia editors! Dreadstar ☥ 18:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

- Comment - I'm inclined to think that myself Junebug, but I've modified my position to give the editors more time before passing final judgement. -bobby 17:27, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Delete~~ unless cleaned up before AfD close. Kavadi carrier 08:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge anything useful into music of Florida. Tuf-Kat 19:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. That’s an interesting suggestion, Tuf-Kat. The origin of the article “Music of South Florida" actually stems from a suggestion [41] in July that it be created if the editor found Music of Florida and Southern Rap to be either too restrictive or too broad. We’ve now come full circle. :) Dreadstar ☥ 15:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
  - But music of Florida is not too broad for the content here. There's plenty of space, and it would fit right in. Then, per WP:SS, if South Florida-related content got to dominate music of Florida, an appropriate subarticle could be created. Tuf-Kat 03:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep and apply stub tag. South Florida has made outsized musical contributions (Jimmy Buffett, the Miami Bass sound, hub for latin music to provide a few examples). Thus, there is plenty of good content with which to populate this page. Let's not delete this page, tag it as a stub, and let it achieve its potential. Captaintruth 14:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment. It's a no-brainer (at least to me) that since Miami is in South Florida, most of the info about Florida music in general would logically be here. The question is, is there a reason to differentiate this from the non-existent article Music of North Florida? For example, even though most of the notable music scene of Illinois is in Chicago, we don't place it in an article called Music of North Illinois. wikipediatrix 15:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment. IMHO, it's simple, because South Florida is such an incredibly robust music scene, so completely different than the rest of Florida that it truly is a no-brainer that it should have it's own article - a concept well covered under WP:SS - because there is no doubt that the information on the South Florida music scene would dominate "Music of Florida". As far as I can see, this in no way requires the creation of a “Music of North Florida” to “differentiate” the two. "Music of Florida" itself should also be expanded to include older and broader music history of the state. There's nothing in Illinois to compare to it. Please let us enthusiastically expand both Music of South Florida and Music of Florida. You can revisit them a month or two from now and see if they deserve life or extinction. What's the rush? Dreadstar ☥ 18:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

- There is plenty of notable music info re North Florida. For example, Jim Morrison is from Daytona Beach, Florida and Lynyrd Skynyd is from the Jacksonville, Florida. I am sure that there are numerous country stars from the area that some research would reveal. As for Central Florida, ever heard of the whole boy band craze of the 90s? The fact of the matter is that South Florida is quite distinct culturally from the rest of the state and its musical flavor (carribean and latin influences, urban edge, etc.) reflect this distinction. Captaintruth 20:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep now that it has been sorta cleaned up; looks like it can even be built into a good article given enough work. :-) Kavadi carrier 10:52, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - I originally voted delete, but retracted it in order to give the article time to grow and expand. It's looking good now, and I think it's earned its place on Wikipedia. Good job editors! →Bobby← 15:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was transwiki. W.marsh 16:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Snoof

Dictionary definition. Not sure how to transwiki this to Wiktionary, which might accept it. EVula 17:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Note I'm also including Snoofing in this AfD, as it too is a dictionary definition page. EVula 17:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Note Snoofing is not just a word it is an encyclopedia article and should remain as it is a robust new concept, that give a supporting verb (doing word) to new events, that have only become available and are doable due to changes in a capitalist society since Adam Smith, Fordism, Taylorism, Thatcherism, Reaganomics, etc. and wireless technology (WiFi). Snoofing is a process, outcome and product of changing and evolving capitalism and technology based society, which is global. This single word sums up a culture of change and is common to all cultures and societies, which move in a capitalist and technological state of progress.

Luddites would do no “Snoofing” as they would not use WiFi or aspire to capitalist and technological change as a snoof. (Snoof (Selfish New Object Orientated Flirtation) (Noun) to analyse resources and be questioning with the objective of critical evaluation and / or personal gain (Noun) one who snoofs For example Consultants’ may use Snoofing techniques to find out information which may be used against Luddite thinking for critical evaluation and gain of the Consultant. Therefore, this is a concept and not a mere dictionary word.

This Snoofing concept is commonly regarded as a correct reflection of a changing society, which has been summed up in a single word. Therefore the concept of Snoofing has a rightful life outside of a dictionary as it is a growing culture, of greed, envy and critical review, which has been defined in a word for a changing society. The Snoofing concept is defined in the Urban Dictionary. See http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snoofing

Rather than mark for deletion Snoofing should be expanded and deeper embedded in other concepts of Economics and Technology that reflect our changing societies.

Transwiki - per above comment. It's just a dicdef with little or no room for expansion. -bobby 17:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Transwiki Both - per nom. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Transwiki both per nom. Just dictionary definitions, and they don't even try to hide that. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy Keep. Per my comments below, clearly passes WP:Bio. -bobby 17:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barbara Pierce Bush

Delete non notable individual who doesn't meet WP:BIO or notablity guidelines WP:NN. Article does not provide evidence of notability other than that she is a sitting president's daughter. That, however does not make her encyclopedic or even make her merit her own article Strothra 17:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Keep This appears to be part of a content dispute regarding the whether or not to include her public intoxication within the article. This is not the way to resolve the issue at hand. --Mhking 17:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Not part of a content dispute, rather I was reading the article and said, "Wait, this doesn't meet notability guidelines." Although I do also have a content dispute with the article, this was not an attempt to solve that. Please see WP:AGF. Thanks. I don't think that there's been considerable discussion over whether or not being the child of a president automatically creates encyclopedic notability. It's an important topic to be discussed. I'm not co-nominating the articles, only this one in order to see where this discussion goes first. Regarding the content issue, I have already sought an WP:3O. --Strothra 17:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You sought WP:3O, then immediately submitted the article for deletion; while I'm trying to assume good faith, that double-sided action implies otherwise. If you mean well, then I'm sure you can understand my skepticism. --Mhking 17:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand it, I'm just saying that it's not to "resolve" a content dispute. The realization that it doesn't meet bio standards came after I sought 3O - ie realizing that people seem to automatically assume encyclopedic notability simply by being the child of a president. If it were a monarchial society where the children had governing roles then I would say ok they're notable. I think that it merits a discussion, as I've said. I didn't rescind my 3O figuring that I might as well get a comment regarding the content dispute. That should actually point to the fact that see the AfD and the 3O as two separate issues. --Strothra 17:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep I'd say that she's been in the media enough to warrant inclusion based on "Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events" (WP:BIO); the article specifically states Barbara's extensive involvement in the 2004 U.S. Presidential election, which just barely scrapes by as a newsworthy event... EVula 17:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment If one of the Bush daughters is nominated then what about the other one? Their articles are very similar and it appears to me that their claim to notability is also extremely similar. I can't speak for others but I wouldn't see any problem with nominating them both at the same time and dealing with them in one AfD. I am not, of course, making any suggestion that they should be nominated or deleted. It just strikes me as odd that one of these article is nominated and not the other. --ElKevbo 17:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Keep - Per WP:Bio:

Criteria for Notability (must satisfy one):

The person has been the primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person.

Major local political figures who receive (or received) significant press coverage.5 Just being an elected local official does not guarantee notability.

Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events, such as by being assassinated.

Bush satisfies all three of these. Here are sources to multiple published works of which she is the subject: 1, 2, 3, and 4. More are all over the place. I would also classify a president's adult daughter as a major political figure for the same reason the first lady is a major political figure. She satisfies the third criterion for her participation in the 2000 and 2004 campaigns (pretty newsworthy events). I'm going to close the AfD now. -bobby 17:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] J money beats

Could have probably been speedied, but I'm being generous and reading the claim of having a "discography" as an assertion of notability and bringing it here. No signs of meeting WP:MUSIC, no sources, no label, only link is a myspace page. ergot 18:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete: Fails WP:MUSIC, I would have probably just gone with a db-bio... Palfrey 18:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - It probably should be speedied for failing to assert notability, but I'll follow in Ergot's footsteps and allow the community to speak. -bobby 19:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Seems to fail WP:MUSIC and doesn't seem to be very notable. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:53, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete -- Non-notable. Funny, but nn. Darkspots 02:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy Delete. I didn't delete the page, but it's gone now so I'm closing the discussion. -bobby 20:32, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] B&N writers

"Wikipedia is not a blog...or social networking site." Nor is it a place to complain about net drama from them, or advertise for another one. mordicai. 18:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete as this site doesn't meet WP:WEB and this isn't an article, it's a POV essay.--Isotope23 18:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete as an attack page: "Jackson has been allowed to release his poisonous religious propaganda once again". Forumcruft of the absolute worst kind. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Delete - for the attacks on Jackson and advertising the forum. Tagged as such. -bobby 19:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus to delete. W.marsh 16:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abhas Mitra

This person is not notable EMS | Talk 18:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep - I'm not sure where the notability issue arises. Mitra created an entirely novel theory for explaining the objects we commonly call black holes. He has published numerous items on the subject (see the MECO page for most of them) and has been featured in several articles. He should definitely have his own page. -bobby 19:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Weak delete~~ The question is whether he meets WP:PROF. Robert seems to be claiming that he meets it MECO and criterion 5. I haev not however seen any evidence that MECO is a signficiant or well-known concept in the field. While he has papers published in respectabe journals, most of the articles about him (such as this one) make clear that he has gotten little or no attention from the mainstream astrophysics community. This position would be subject to change if someone can convince me otherwise or so that he meets another criterion of WP:PROF. JoshuaZ 19:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Changing to Delete given that what's below is apparently the best argument for keeping. JoshuaZ 21:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - I would argue that it is a significant concept in the field of astrophysics because it proposes an alternative to black holes. This is significant just as alternative theories for the big bang are significant. Until someone can come out and prove one way or another that one theory is absolutely correct, any plausible hypothesis (which MECO certainly is) deserves to be debated. Combine this rationale with the numerous articles published on the subject (found on the MECO page, some of which review Mitra's work) and we are left with a clear candidate for crit 5 of WP:Prof. -bobby 20:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Comment Absolutely not. The standard for whether something is significant in a field is whether people in the field have found it significant. The above claim is particularly hard to swallow given the standard of having to "prove one way or another that one theory is absolutely correct" since this never happens in science by definition. We need evidence astrophysicists find the idea notable, not that you or some random individual or even a few astrophysicists find it "plausible" Furthermore, I fail to see "numerous" articles about the subject. JoshuaZ 21:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Comment - A few astrophysicists finding it plausible constitute "multiple independent" sources and hence satisfies the notability crit. As such, "people in the field" have found it significant satisfying your criterion. As long as plausible alternatives to describing so called black holes exist, and until we eliminate them as possible theories, they are notable and worthy of inclusion so that researchers and anybody else who is curious can get a sense for all theories proposed and not just the most popular one (quick note so I don't get pegged for this: I'm not suggesting that alternate theories presented on wikipedia should be taken as fact; I'm just saying it's a good place to get a general sense about a field before doing some solid research within a good library). I don't understand your comment about absolute certainty "never happens in science by definition". I have never seen a definition of science which does not allow for certainty. I am certain, for example, that the moon revolves around the earth, and the earth around the sun. This was not always widely believed, and at one point this theory would have been considered absurd. As we expand the limits of the known, things that once seemed like pipe dreams become very plausible, and can (in time) become certainties. I'm not sure quite where I'm going with this, but I'm also not sure what your objection to MECO is. I am admittedly not into astrophysics (math is my comfort zone) and perhaps you are better versed in this issue than I. However, from what I've read, Mitra's theory is notable enough to warrent its own wikipedia page, which seems to indicate that Mitra deserves one as well (not an acid test, but I've already cited a crit which I believe is met and maybe this line of reasoning works better for you). -bobby 21:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep - I have my reservations about the notability of this person, but this may be a concept that catches on, and I think I would err on the side of keep. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment If it catches on we can have an article about it then. That's the rule for everything whether they are scientific theories or bands or politicians or small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri. JoshuaZ 21:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Useless Comment - Why is somebody who quotes Douglass Adams (the furry creatures bit) so averse to a page for someone who presents an alternate theory for one of space's greatest mysteries? Just curious, no need to respond. -bobby 21:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Comment I'm not averse to his ideas. They sound fascinating and I've added some of his papers to my list of physics papers to read when I have time. The issue is whether he has yet become notable enough to meet Wikipedia's inclusion criteria. Unfortunately he hasn't. JoshuaZ 22:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep — A quick google search reveals that many sources feel this work to be an important new concept (point 5) and (b), along with Mitra's previous concept - that of MECOs. I'm going to mention this in the article, and add a source. As we have an article on MECOs, it seems only right that we have an article on the person who decided they existed. Should the sicentist himself fail the notability test, but the concept pass, then I'd suggest merge and redirect to Magnetospheric eternally collapsing object. M a rtinp23 23:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Really, really weak keepDelete. The fact that the article asserts black holes can not have magnetic fields makes me EXTREMELY suspicious about reliability. ~~However, he appears to just barely meet WP:BIO.~~ I'm going to at least clean up the scientific errors in this now. -Amarkov ^babble 00:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I've done some more research, and I don't believe he meets WP:BIO. I've heard of the theory, but never connected to him. I would have gone with weak delete, except for the aforementioned "black holes can't have magnetic fields" assertion. Before anyone complains, I don't think it should be deleted because I believe that is wrong (which it IS), the fact that the assertion is made just casts doubt on the rest. -Amarkov ^babble 00:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I assure you that black holes can have magnetic fields. They are known to retain both the angular momentum and the electrical charge of the object that created the black hole. Any rotating electrically chrged object will have a magnetic field. --EMS | Talk 03:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep - Rediff and world science assert notabiblity.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletions. Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep per Martinp23 Doctor Bruno 01:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment Can we follow the principle of The standard for whether something is significant in a field is whether people in the field have found it significant for all AFDs. Is this an official policy. I follow this. I never comment on areas where I know little. But I find many people (including few Indians) who does not even have an iota of knowledge about India or India related fields, say delete without even reading the full debate or caring to look for references Doctor Bruno 01:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

His field is not "India". His field is science. If notability were claimed based on something like being an Indian figure, your comment would have some merit. But notability is claimed based on a scientific theory. Thus, it is SCIENTISTS who must find him significant. -Amarkov ^babble 02:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

My comment was not for this AFD alone. It for everything. For example see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/India. Doctor Bruno 05:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Even then, there is a problem. To meet notability standards, anyone should be able to find information on a person, not just certain people. To say delete for non-notability without trying to find references is bad, but specialists shouldn't be the only ones who can find some information. -Amarkov ^babble 05:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - The issue is the notability of Dr. Mitra, not the notablity of the MECO theory. First of all, the MECO theory is not extraordinary, but instead is one of many theories that seek to explain how general relativity really does not permit black holes to exist. I personally have reason to believe that all such theories are mistaken, but will not contest the MECO as an encyclopedic subject due to the attention that it has garnered. My issue instead is one of whether Dr. Mitra is automatically becomes encyclopedic because he has contributed to the MECO concept. I really fail to see that. Instead I see an article about a relatively minor scientist that is very unlikely to ever be more than a stub. Even now it says little more than that Dr. Mitra is a contributor to the MECO concept, somcething that can already be inferred from the MECO article. Please recall that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collector of information. --EMS | Talk 03:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Additional note: To get a sense of the standing of the MECO theory, see black_hole#Alternative_models. --EMS | Talk 04:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - The controversy due to the MECO theory has earned him enough notability in the mainstream Indian media (rediff, Times of India and elsewhere too. -- Lost^(talk) 06:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: I see no notability in those links. The first link is to the same article as the second link, and the third link is to a magazine article that is mostly a cut-and-paste job from that same article. So in the end there is only one article that you are referencing. To make matters worse, this business of "challenging Hawking" is a standard "crackpot" tactic. Also, Hawking radiation has nothing to do with Mitra's MECO concept. So the article being linked to speaks more of a fringe scientist trying to make himself look good than a notable scientist talking about his work. --EMS | Talk 06:42, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Comment- Well my point is that the largest Indian newspaper and website have found the scientist notable enough to write an article about him. Even if it is the same article, it features in both the sites making him notable outside of the scientific community. -- Lost^(talk) 07:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Comment - Being noted does not make you notable. That article fails to give Mitra a standing beyond being one of the main contributors to the MECO, and while notable the MECO remains a fairly obscure theory. --EMS | Talk 15:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per above. Changing to Weak Keep. EMS arguments hold weight, but I'm not convinced to vote delete, per User:Martinp23's argument. utcursch | talk 12:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - I can live with a merge/redirect per User:Martinp23. However, the notability of Mitra seems to be tied to the idea that the MECO concept may become popular. Please remember that Wikipeidia is not a crystal ball. --EMS | Talk 15:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Taking a second look at the article, I also think a Merge/Redirect will be better. The article doesn't have much content except his association with MECO theory. utcursch | talk 12:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep - Seems to be highly notable. Nileena joseph 05:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was speedy deleted by Eagle 101. —Cryptic 10:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VNYX

Page is unreferenced, doesn't give notability, reads like an ad. If there's material for a valid article then it's not in this page. ben 18:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Delete - Nothing there, spam if anything. Chris Kreider 20:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Delete - WP:SPAM --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
del. nn `'mikkanarxi 21:01, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GigPig

Lack of verifiable links for this and seems hardly notable. The only really notable link is the actual article. Seems a vanity article. Spartaz 19:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Nonnotable with verifification issues. -bobby 19:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - non-notable plus it seems to be an ad or at very least WP:SPAM. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Weak delete As I see nothing that makes it different from other drum sets. Might have COI problems (more PC). -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Question Sorry - what does COI mean? --Spartaz 16:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Businessbib

Blatant product promotion. Author rmvd my prod tag. Two sentences in NYT could be devoted to any kind of oddball product. Remember Sea Monkey ads? This is similar, but far more expensive. Also see Photoshopped picture in history of this "article." Ling.Nut 12:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for offending the rules of Wikipedia, but I have nothing to do with the company that creates the product and do not intend on advertising it.Head-doctor 12:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Keep. I think the article now passes the requirement for multiple nontrivial mentions, since a trivial mention is defined as something like a directory listing, and the New York Times article has a byline. Youtube is normally not a reliable source, but in this context it's evidence that something was mentioned on national television in the United States. I commented out the Channel 4 reference, but it can be restored if a more precise citation can be added. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 16:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete Dictdef. Edeans 22:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- This is not a dictionary article about a word. It is an encyclopaedia article about a type of clothing. Uncle G 10:27, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
This "article of clothing" will cease to exist in four months. Why burden Wikipedia with adcruft? --Ling.Nut 12:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Many things have ceased production but Wikipedia is burdend with their slaverish stories. Head-doctor 19:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

A little admin attention here? See Corporate vanity policy enforcement:shoot on sight--Ling.Nut 04:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment. "Corporate vanity policy enforcement:shoot on sight" doesn't mean that we are supposed to delete articles about demonstrably notable topics. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 05:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Ezeu 19:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete I don't understand the sea-monkey analogy. Sea-monkey is a very notable article. This is not. If it becomes even a little popular then, of course, add it.
Strong Delete - something some people made up. Get it out of here unless they add substantially more content. Chris Kreider 20:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - non-notable, very few sources and seems to read like a hoax. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 10,000 Days (Wings)

The subject of this article is about a song that is not notable (not even a single) off of Tool's record 10,000 Days. It was clearly made in an effort to subvert the page 10,000 Days (Wings Pt 2), which is the actual title of the song, and which currently redirects to the album's main page. I tried to send the article through the proposed deletion process, but the prod tag was removed by an anonymous user with no justification whatsoever. King Bee 19:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Strong Delete — Very opinionated, bordering on patent nonsense in places. After deletion, redirect to 10,000 Days. M a rtinp23 20:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Delete. per my comments and those of Martinp23's. --King Bee 20:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Delete Very close to patent nonsense. Hello32020 20:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Tool is a notable band. But, i dont believe this song deserves its own article. If anything, merge any useful information into the article on the album. Chris Kreider 20:18, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Hardly seems notable enough for an article. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per above AHMYBRAIN 20:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beyond Car Forums

Doesn't seem to be covered by any independent reliable sources. Looks like it fails WP:V/WP:RS. Article editors have failed to provide any useful sourcing despite a couple editors requests. Wickethewok 20:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Spam. EVula 20:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - non-notable as well as WP:SPAM. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, I proposed this for deletion a while back. Fails WP:WEB Alphachimp 19:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. I also prodded this. Fails wp:web, blah blah blah. --- RockMFR 05:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedily deleted, CSD:A1. --MCB 21:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bethany bridge

This article is an orphan, as well as having no content and being unotable NauticaShad e s 20:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Speedy Delete - There is nothing there. pointless article. Chris Kreider 20:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Delete- No content on page, seems to be a useless article. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. - Mailer Diablo 12:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gosforth High School

Contested PROD. Yanksox 20:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete - Seems to me to be non-notable. --Kf4bdy ^talk ^contribs 20:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - Let's just agree to keep all high schools in England, because it seems they all have had notable alums which is generally acceptable as grounds for inclusion. In this case, a quick search told me that footballers Alan Shearer and Michael Chopra attended the school. No doubt more to follow. We just need to add references to the page. -bobby 20:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- All high schools in England? What's to say we don't apply that to every nation? And can you please shorten your sig per WP:SIG. Yanksox 21:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- I'm with Yanksox on your ludicrously long signature. I'm also against you that notable alums is a "generally acceptable" means of inclusion. Nothing about the school debate is generally accepted. I'm generally against keeping all schools (I'm much more against lower-level schools than high schools, though), but I'm especially against the idiotic "notable alumni" clause. Almost every school that ever existed has some notable alumni, because pretty much every notable person of the past two centuries at least went to elementary and middle school, so chances are that one person of note went to any given school. Moreover, people generally don't choose where they go to school, so saying that a school is notable simply because one person with a WP article was forced to go there for three or four years is- in my opinion- stupid. -- Kicking222 21:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - I do think we should have an article for all high school's that have been around for longer than 50 years (and/or) have notable alums. The article on this particular school needs to be expanded, but that's no reason to delete it. School's are often notable if they've been around for a while, and I do think that it is interesting to see where various famous people spent their later childhood. If you feel differently, join the debate at the proposed notability guidelines for schools. As to the sig, sorry about that. I'm a 4th of July American Baby so I've always loved patriotic colors. It should take up less room not. Regards, -bobby 22:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

*Delete Nothing particularly notable about this school. No notable alumni. No athletes of clubs performing at a national level. No other claims that assert notability. JoshuaZ 22:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC) ~~Changing to keep per presence of notable alumni that I failed to notice. JoshuaZ 02:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)~~ ~~changing back to delete per GRBerry's argument below. Unless the article can be sourced, notability of alumns isn't relevant. JoshuaZ 03:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)~~ Ok, back to keep since the items about the alumni are verifiable so it can stay as a stub with that for now. JoshuaZ 05:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

- Comment (re change back to delete) Doesn't this conflict with User:JoshuaZ/Schoolproposal element number 5 - "The school has multiple notable alumni or staff (e.g. would qualify for an article under WP:BIO, WP:MUSIC or some other inclusion guideline)." ??!?!? While I think an argument could be made that an elementary school has no discernible role in shaping a student who years down the road happened to turn out notable, the notables listed at Gosforth all had critical formative experiences at the school -- athletic or musical -- that shaped their future success and Wikipedia notability. In this case, your own criteria couldn't be more relevant. Alansohn 05:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

***Comment Yes I know, by my personal notability criteria can't overide WP:V. In the words of Jimbo "WP:V is non-negotiable" If we can't get enough to verify anything then we can't do much. JoshuaZ 05:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC) Never mind, I changed my mind again.JoshuaZ 05:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. Notable alumni are listed above. What is wrong with having articles on all High Schools? We are not short of disk space. We have articles on all villages, many of which have less people than a High School. This article needs to be expanded, particularly to say something about the schools that merged to form it (what were they called, did they have a long history, did they have notable alumni?) --Bduke 00:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep, all high schools are notable, with its notable alumni. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 04:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Robertbcole and other commenters above. Yamaguchi先生 04:35, 4 November 2006
Keep Notable alumni because of as listed above TheRanger 04:38, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep as long as it gets expanded... if it does not I will not object to a future afd. ALKIVAR™ ☢ 07:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Keep per notability standards set by WP:SCHOOLS and the near-universal precedent for retention of high school articles. Details re notable alumni, including sources re attendance at this school, have been added. It's disturbing that people are so ready to vote delete witout doing even a minimal investigation as to the school's notability. Alansohn 23:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep for my usual reasons. -- Necrothesp 00:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Without coverage satisfying WP:INDY that is primarily about the school, it is impossible to write an article adhering to both WP:V and WP:NPOV, each of which is a policy. The links are trivial mentions, only enough to establish that certain people went to a school of this name, not to say anything about the school. GRBerry 03:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Alkivar, Yamaguchi, etc. --Myles Long 17:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. It is obvious now why the "prod" was contested; given ample time all high school articles will demonstrate notability. Silensor 23:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Delete - Yomangani ^talk 13:37, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Allodoxaphobia

del nonnotable coinage of yet another phobias, circulating in the web in various pohobia lists without a single reputable reference, with notable exception of unscrupulous psychiatric websites that will heal you from any phobia (including Russophobia and prostitutephobia), and they keep inventing names to increase number of website hits. See -phob-#Phobia lists. `'mikkanarxi 20:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Hokay. Someone on the internet goes by that name, so google isn't worth too much. Searching Allodoxaphobia -config.com +medical got 1930 hits (the minus is to get rid of the guy that posts under that name). Just Allodoxaphobia +medical gets 2110. If it's a real phobia, I'd expect more, especially maybe an official media site, or something like that. ~~Delete~~. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:35, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Transwiki per Martinp23. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Transwiki to wiktionary — Dictionary def -> wikitionary. However, it is (from my research with a Greek dictionary) a real word (etymologically speaking) and literally means "fear of all opinions". A google search for "fear of opinions" gies results which back up this article, though I agree that it is phobiacruft here on WP (yes... phobiacruft is a word...). M a rtinp23 23:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- Wiktionary is not a garbage bin. I can invent millions of vlid words by sticking together various greek and latin roots. Unless you have a verifiable dictionary source, you have no right to spam wiktionary with wordcruft. `'mikkanarxi 23:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
  - I know - as I stated in my comment above, I have googled to find confirmation for myself that allodoxaphobia is a word, and then, as I always do, I checked that it was etymologically real (as a phobia) by looking it up. Note that I also said "(etymologically speaking)" by way of a disclaimer for my research - etymologically it stands, but otherwise, it may fail - hence my googling. I hope this clears it up - thanks, M a rtinp23 00:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
    - Can you provide a reputable source? Numerous phobia lists and copycat online dictionaries don't count. `'mikkanarxi 01:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Hi - I've searched for a while, but really can't find anything which would satisfy wiktionary's criteria (something I was not previously familiar with - apologies). Instead, as it appears to be a protologism, I would suggest a move to wiktionary's list of protologisms. Thanks -- M a rtinp23 11:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Protologism. phobiacruft. unreliable sources. Bwithh 21:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete nonverifiable. Mukadderat 16:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Transwiki to Wiktionary. I checked this word on dictionary.com, and there is apparently an entry on Allodoxaphobia in Websters New Millenium dictionary. So, I think it can go to wiktionary or WT:LOP per Martinp23. -Kubigula (ave) 21:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- Don't transwiki incorrect text. If someone wants, may write a wiktionary entry basing on reputable sources. Allodoxaphobia is not phobia; it is just a nice greek coinage for a fear. People may fear of everything or hate anything. Mukadderat 20:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was merge. W.marsh 16:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sturt Mall

Malls aren't automatically notable, and the article doesn't seem to assert this one's notability. Also, less than 2000 ghits. It has been prodded and deprodded. Picaroon9288 21:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. JoshuaZ 22:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep or merge with Wagga Wagga#Shopping, no need to screw over our readers. Kappa 00:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. A Google News Archive search [42] and Australia New Zealand media database comes up with nothing on this mall. No sources in article. May be worth a mention in Wagga Wagga shopping. Capitalistroadster 02:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 02:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge as per above - Wagga articles are generally quite good and informative, so there's no reason to delete the information here. Merge it into the main article. JROBBO 05:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Merge The Sturt Mall was the first Shopping Mall to be built in the CBD however getting information on it's history has been hard to find so I will go for it to be merged to Wagga Wagga#Shopping. -- Bidgee 11:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Delete - arguments that he fails WP:BIO haven't been countered. Yomangani ^talk 18:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] William Sledd

disputed PROD for NN-youtube 'celebrity' delete DesertSky85451 21:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Fails WP:BIO. JoshuaZ 22:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, Non-notable; fails WP:BIO, WP:V. WarpstarRider 23:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Youtube doesn't automatically make people notable. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- That’s not true. We are living amidst a new phenomenon. Up until now for example, the presenter of a CBS or any other notable TV show would be recognised as notable. YouTube is a new phenomenon, in that it is a media body in its seemingly trivial role as a video sharing site. Highly subscribed members of YouTube are now like TV presenter, newsreaders, ETC! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.39.9.197 (talk • contribs) .
Don't Delete Doesn't fail WP:BIO nor "web content" under section 3 of that criteria. Youtube doesn't automatically make people notable, but people do become notable through their own efforts in it --Arislan 04:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Could you explain this in more detail please? JoshuaZ 04:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
  - ie, we want you to tell us how this person is notable outside Youtube. If their just in Youtube, it's not enough. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 04:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
    - That is like saying that Jared is only notable in subway commercials and that's not enough. --Arislan 16:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Er no. Jared has been independently interviewed, there have been articles about him in newspapers etc. JoshuaZ 17:44, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
      - Yes. Subway is huge, and Jared is too. TV celebraties are often notable for being TV celebreties. But, Yutube doens't make people famous. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 20:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't Delete Under WP:BIO, William merits inclusion based on the criterion: "Published authors, editors and photographers who received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work". William is both an editor and an author of his own work. William's work has received hundreds of thousands of views by an international audience and has been independently commented upon and rated by that international audience. William's work may not feature in national galleries or on television, but this does not mean one can discriminate against the value of William's work, for on the basis of popularity alone, William's work is a notable achievement (and continues to become ever more notable). Moreover, if other YouTube celebrities are admissible into this encyclopedia, then so too should William be (you only have to look at William's subscription levels on YouTube as proof of his place amongst other YouTube celebrity peers). YouTube is an artistic phenomenon of our time that allows artists and others a vehicle to connect with the world, and in the case of some, YouTube delivers fame and notoriety, which cannot be dismissed as insignificant. --DavidRWilson 23:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC) — DavidRWilson (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Are you kidding? Views and comments on Youtube do not count as "independent reviews"; that passage refers to actual written reviews. The other "Youtube celebrities" with articles at least have something resembling sourcing to back them up, though even those articles aren't without their controversy either. But without any chance of being verifiable, there's no way this article can stay here. WarpstarRider 23:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. I see no value in being overly rigid about what constitutes notable. If it's something people are interested in knowing more about, it's worth having an article about. Why should the fact that his fame comes through YouTube make a difference? JudahH 00:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- The problem is, there has been no demonstration that this guy has any sort of "fame" outside of Youtube. WarpstarRider 23:36, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Suppose he doesn't. Why does that matter? If enough people see him on YouTube, and want to see a page on him, there should be a page for them to see. (Unless what you're worried about is verifiability, but what's written here is basically verifiable.)JudahH 03:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
    - If he has no "fame" outside of Youtube, then there's no reason to have an article about him, no matter how many people watch his videos. The idea that "people on Youtube want to have an article about him" doesn't make him notable by Wikipedia standards. WarpstarRider 03:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
      - I don't understand what you mean, "People on YouTube". The point is that people want to have an article on him; how is it possibly relevant whether they know him from YouTube or anywhere else? Where do the "Wikipedia standards" say anything about YouTube? 50,000 people watching his videos is 50,000 people. If you had decided that 50,000 was not enough exposure to be famous, I would understand your position, if disagree with it. But when you say that 50,000 is not enough because those are "people on YouTube", I don't understand your logic. JudahH 04:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        Views on Youtube do not equal notability. There have been numerous battles already involving the notability of other supposed "Youtube celebrities", and I generally support deletion of all of them, but some of those at least have some semblance of coverage in outside sources. This has nothing besides "people watching his videos want to write an article on him", which is completely irrelevant. Without outside sources, there can't even be a dispute; this should be deleted. WarpstarRider 05:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Don't Delete I came on Wikipedia today to see an article about William Sledd, and I got one. I was really surprised to see it was up for deletion. Some may see what he does as being useless and not notable.But before you delete this article, take into account how many people he makes happy. Whenever I'm sad or need really good fashion advice I look to William, he always seems to make my day. If that isn't notable, then I don't know what is.--Tezzy149 19:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC) –User's tenth edit.
- Then you may need to read some of the policies and guidelines, like WP:V and WP:N. There have been lot of battles over "Youtube celebrity" articles; the others that have been fought over at least had some kind of sources to back up the article. This one doesn't have anything that even attempts to back up the claims to this guy's supposed notability. It has to go. WarpstarRider 23:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
  - It doesn't have to go. The "guy's supposed notability" is evidenced from the number of comments and subscribers he has. If his youtube stats aren't enough, then look at the comments themselves.--Arislan 09:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
    - This is not the Youtube directory. Notability isn't based on how many subscribers someone has there, or number of views of their videos, or anything like that that is only tied to the Youtube community. There has to be claim to some semblence of notability to the outside world, or there isn't even a valid argument for keeping this around. WarpstarRider 11:54, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
      - In what way is the "YouTube community" not part of the "outside world"? They don't live on the same planet or something? This distinction you're trying to make doesn't make sense. JudahH 19:43, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        In general, in order for something to be notable it needs to be noticed by someone outside the community. For examples of how this works, you may want to see WP:BIO or WP:WEB. JoshuaZ 20:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        "A large fan base" is one of the criteria listed in WP:BIO. As for the person's "community", you're using a very broad definition of the word. I don't see how the so-labeled "community" of people who watch YouTube differs from the "communities" of people who watch CBS, or read the New York Times. JudahH 23:48, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        That's listed under the section for "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions." Youtube videos aren't covered under any of those. WarpstarRider 00:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        That's a very dogmatic way to read what is, after all, a guideline. The whole point of guidelines is that it's impossible to cover every single contingency—they're simply guides to policy. A YouTube personality with a large fanbase is completely analogous to an actor with a fanbase (IMHO, of course). A fanbase is a fanbase. JudahH 00:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        It's not "dogmatic", that's what the guideline actually says. You can't compare actors who are known by millions around the world through movies, television, news coverage, etc. to Random Youtube Guy who no one else knows about and hasn't been covered by any outside sources. WarpstarRider 00:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        Sure that's what it says; when that sentence was written, I doubt YouTube celebrities were even envisioned. My point stands: a guideline is meant as a general outline of policy, to be applied to specific cases through judgment. To say, "This is what is written—anything else is proscribed", is to be very dogmatic. That said, in your last comment, you did mention a solid distinction between actors and YouTube celebrities: millions versus tens of thousands. In my view 50,000 (viewers, smaller fanbase of course) is sufficient to be called notable, but that's an area of opinion where you're free to disagree, obviously. What I don't understand is the knee-jerk branding of "YouTube celebrities" as by definition non-notable. JudahH 03:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        Once again, the key is having significant recognition from outside sources, not a high hit count on Youtube. From WP:V: "If an article topic has no reliable, third-party sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." WarpstarRider 10:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        I hate to bring lonelygirl15 into this, but her reason for having a Wikipedia page is because she is a fake YouTuber. If a fake YouTuber gets a Wikipedia page, then why shouldn't a real one? They both used the same medium to become famous, it just so happens William Sledd is actually William Sledd. If it comes to this article being deleted, all I ask is that there is a possibility for this page to be recreated in the future. He has talent, maybe he'll have his own talk show. It's also very possible he won't get famous outside of YouTube, but you never know.--Tezzy149 22:33, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        That's a vast oversimplification. Lonelygirl15's "fakeness" generated a lot of attention from outside sources, Sledd has not. If he does do something significant in the future, then there can be an article then. WarpstarRider 23:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        The Chicago Sun-Times is a reliable third party source ... --DavidRWilson 22:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        Unfortunately, he's only used as a list item in an article about Youtube in general; there isn't any actual information given. WarpstarRider 23:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        William may not be the focus of this article, but that is not the point. The point is, that a reliable third party source has testified to William's popularity on YouTube. This is independent verification of his YouTube celebrity. If the test of inclusion on this encyclopedia in William's case is popularity plus independent verification of that popularty, which combined constitutes "notable", then William has met that test. There is no need for this article to write extensively on William, all that is required is verification. --DavidRWilson 22:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
        
        This is entirely wrong. The article you posted simply includes his name in a rather large list of high-rated users, at the end of a story that covers YouTube in general and doesn't mention him at all. This is not verification of any supposed "celebrity"; it's a trivial mention, and can't be used as a source. Go back and read the policies and guidelines again. WarpstarRider 00:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep and improve. The article so far only covers trivia. The article needs to be lenthaned to cover the whole saga. This person is the fasest rising subscribed member on YouTube and came into the top twenty in just over a month. He has now found his way into the top ten. 82.39.9.197 12:13, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong delete / speedy delete. Another youtube biography of a nonentity with no assertion of notability. Proto::type 13:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- A nonentity? Being viewed by tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people differs him by absolutely nothing to, an independent film actor, a stage actor, or for example, this poet, Steven Herrick. So, please tell me what the difference is? W33nie 19:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong delete Youtube is not a reason for a person's popularity. StonedChipmunk 03:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem now is that this article will temp be deleted only to be reposted as soon as some media outlets document his rise to fame. I therefore suggest to prolong the deletion discussion. Your thoughts please. Chavatshimshon 01:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

If there isn't anything "documenting his rise to fame" now, then there can't be an article now. WarpstarRider 01:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Now hold on a minute. I've been following the thread closely here. I'm the guy that started of this trend by creating the renetto article. As I understand from what you have written above, the veracity of his notability is disputed since there is a lack of third party (media) coverage, of his fame. What is not in question is his fame, there is certainly no need for documentation of that point. On the other hand, he is rising to fame on only on YouTube and similar vlogging sites, which arguably is not a comparison to an independent media body yet. But yet again, the fact has it that he is in class of his own, in that he is the fastest rising subscribed member since Geriatric1927 whose article here is well written and received a high visitor count. So he is famous now, but we are trying to establish how and why. Dont confuse your own points as put above by yourself in discrediting his notability. Yes we are waiting for sources outside of YouTube to write it up so we can attach them as sources at the end of this article, but no, there is no need to delete him speedily just because we cant wait a few days or a week. The bottom line is, YouTube is unique phenomenon in that it is a media body in itself, that Google have now bought that out is making this hard to see, since its going to be a monopoly, but if there would be a few popular vlogging sites, it would be more clear to us how their users are both independently and by being featured (as in media bodies) becoming notable. Chavatshimshon 01:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

His "fame" is exactly what is in question; a high hit count can not solely determine fame or notability, as this is not the Youtube directory. You clearly need to get more acquainted with WP policies; once again, "If an article topic has no reliable, third-party sources, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." Without any reliable sources to verify this guy's supposed notability or any of the information in this article at this moment, there can not be an article about him at this moment. That is not in question by anyone who knows the policies. WarpstarRider 02:03, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

His fame according to standards for a wikipedia article is being questioned, not his fame as a celeb. He has accumulated 1000 new subscriptions in less than one week. People are coming here, reading the article, leaving and wikipedia lives on. Quite clearly this is not a cheap add and the article is a service. Agreed that there must be a source to link to the article with in the week. Until then what we have here is a bunch of new wiki editors, a new generation, bringing YouTube with them, and they are most welcome. I'm one of them. The guidelines on Internet memes will slowly evolve with our influx. Chavatshimshon 02:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The Wikipedia policies are not going to be changed because of people who want to write worthless articles on non-notable subjects. If your arguments have no basis in policy, then you have no real argument for keeping this article here. WarpstarRider 02:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe you're misinterpreting the word "third-party", WarpstarRider. Third-party sources are sources other than the editor himself. In this context, YouTube.com itself is surely a third-party source: the issue is verifiability, and statements which can be verified from youtube.com are verifiable. The statements in this article fall into that category. Some of them (i.e. information about hit count on a specific date) may no longer be verifiable; but when written were verifiable; those are debatable, but I think that if something is included legitimately, it should be valid, even if the source is no longer available. JudahH 20:42, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

For the thousandth time, no, YouTube stats do not count. The big box at the top of WP:V clarifies what that passage means: "Articles should contain only material that has been published by reliable sources." YouTube stats are not reliable, published sources. An entire article can not be included simply on the basis of a hit count; there have to be reliable sources verifying any claims of notability and any other information in the article. Until that exists, there can not be an article. WarpstarRider 22:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you please define what is meant by "reliable, third-party sources"? And please quote your authority. In addition, any precedent or examples? --DavidRWilson 22:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

See WP:RS. JoshuaZ 22:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, YouTube is a primary source. WP:RS talks about information from blogs on YouTube—that's not at all the same as the statistics that YouTube itself publishes about the views, subscribers, etc. of its videos. It's ridiculous to think that YouTube, the primary source for this information, is unreliable about it, but if a newspaper would republish the same information, it would become reliable. JudahH 05:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

You're still not getting it. See WP:V again where it specifically says that reliable, third-party, published sources are absolutely required for an article's existence. Anything can be a primary source about itself; the very idea of verifiability is that there must be outside sources backing them up. The existence of enough such sources is what establishes a subject as notable. Now stop waving around the guy's YouTube stats, because that's not what we're looking for here. WarpstarRider 06:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete fails WP:BIO nn notable.--Dakota 22:42, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment: I've put this on the Internet Wikia since it clearly fails WP:BIO. Angela . 17:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus to delete. Giving this article the benefit of the doubt... but if references can't be found by a third afd... it really needs to go (the first afd was so long ago it's not really relevent) W.marsh 16:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hong Kong Golden Forum

Fails WP:WEB/WP:V. Probably should have been deleted the first time it was nominated here. No sources given in the article and only 12 google hits. Wickethewok 21:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Only 3 if you -wikipedia. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Very strong keep. hkgolden.com has an Alexa ranking of 789 (Alexa also shows almost all of the site traffic going to the forums). There are almost CERTAINLY sources that can be found for this, albeit in a language most of us can't read. --- RockMFR 05:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. As suggested by the opinion above, plus the notability issues. There are over 140,000 registered members there, and possibly more visiters. The Verifibility issues can (and should, IMO) be rectified by cleaning up the article)--which is not necessary to be deleted. --Blackhawk charlie2003 11:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete nonverifiable notability. Mukadderat 16:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep per RockMFR and Blackhawk Charlie. I strongly suspect that the above Google test was NOT conducted in any sort of Chinese language, and the results would be very different if it were. Otherwise, it seems an informative and balanced good-faith (non-spam) article on some details of the web-culture of a highly-trafficked forum. --Arvedui 01:44, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep, home of the Internet meme The Bus Uncle. - Mailer Diablo 12:37, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
keep and please help reverse systemic bias Yuckfoo 00:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

So there's systemic bias against websites? I'm gonna have to go and disagree there. Anyways, is there a specific policy to follow if the information can't be verified by an English speaker and no speaker of the subject's language steps forward? Wickethewok 06:54, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy delete, no assertion of notability. Note that the existence of other articles that meet the speedy deletion does not excuse the existence of this one. Gwernol 17:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Speed of Thought Players (SOTP)

Since the article gives no claims of notability it should go under {{db-bio}}, but let's discuss it. There are 10's of thousands of similar troupes in the world, this one gives no hints why it is notable. Wikipedia is not a free forum to advertise your company. Googling the troupe gives no special hints at notability. IMO delete. feydey 21:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Do not delete While it is a valid point that there are 10's of thousands of similar troupes in the world, SOTP is not the only one that has its own Wiki page. It is a matter of opinion on how "important" the troupe is to deserve a Wiki page. Also, the majority of this page is not advertising. It gives a brief background of the group, the style of games they play, and who are the members. I can understand the "current events" being considered advertising, but the rest of the article is an objective description of the group. If one is going to propose the deletion of this article, then they should be prepared find every other small group with a Wiki page and contest them as well. They are out there. -Rhanley(Talk·Desk·Review Me!)
Speedy delete per {{nn-club}} or {{db-spam}}. Sandstein 08:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete as spam and/or by db-club. No asserted notability. -- Kicking222 15:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moldova national rugby league team

Strong delete - rugby league is no longer played in Moldova and hasn't been for some time. I also feel that there is little justification for minor nations at a sport to have their own page James Bowes 21:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - Firstly, it's the national team of a country in a notable sport, which seems like a reasonable basis for an article in an of itself. Further this site implies that there is at least some rugby league activity going on in Moldova at present. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:49, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

- That article is several years out of date, likely from when rugby league was played in Moldova. —Preceding unsigned comment added by James Bowes (talk • contribs)

For "several years out of date", read "2003", with the site itself being copyright last year. I'm not saying that things mightn't have changed drastically in 12 months, but calling it "several years out of date" is false. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

A sub-section of rugby league fans seem convinced that rugby league is more widespread than it is, I don't think the article's very accurate. I'll try find sources later.—Preceding unsigned comment added by James Bowes (talk • contribs)

Comment - I don't want to go calling names, but a check of this user's [43] contributions makes for odd reading. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. Once notable, always notable. A national team is notable, even if it no longer exists. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk |

contribs) 00:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep per TruthbringerToronto. Notability on national teams does not have an expiry date. Resolute 04:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per TruthbringerToronto, and given the completely incorrect assertion made regarding the Canadian rugby article nominated, below, I call into question the nom's assertion that it isn't played in Moldova. 23skidoo 04:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

That was actually an entirely accurate assertion that rugby league is not played in Canada. Someone used a rugby union competition that had league in its name to show that there was rugby league there, think of it as using the NFL Europe to prove the existence of Canadian football in Germany if you're not aware of what rugby league is.James Bowes 15:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep with a note that rugby league is no longer played in Moldova. The consensus is that this should remain for history purposes. My comment about Canada was correct, but some people are ignorant of the difference between rugby union and rugby league.

There's no proof that it isn't played in Moldova. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

There's no proof it is either. It is known on rugby league sites that the game's no longer played there. I suggest keeping the article for history, but I've heard strong evidence that the game's been dead there years. In the last few years all European nations have been active, but nothing from Moldova who are not registered with the RLEF (www.rlef.eu) or anything.James Bowes 11:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The site I've cited above talks about games which were scheduled for 2003, which would suggest that if it's died then the death occurred sometime in the last 3 years. Anything's possible in Eastern Europe, but it surely would've been reported somewhere. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Those games never went ahead, despite being planned. I believe they were to be based on Moldovans playing and living in Russia. Like I said check the www.rlef.eu page, if a country plays any internationals or has a single club they get mentioned there. Now I know Wikipedia better, I know that a national team, current or active deserves a page, but I know for a fact that there is not a single rugby league club in Moldova, and that the national side has not played since 1995. I suggest we conclude this as keep and then discuss on the talk page what to include in the article?James Bowes 14:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

This link shows people discussing Moldova no longer playing rugby league:http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=142393&highlight=moldova Not sure whether it's a valid source but it's more valid than the above article. It shows that there are Moldovans playing in Russia, but suggests there is no activity in the country itself. James Bowes 14:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The people at that forum may have more evidence than we can find, but without it all we have is a group of people saying that the game isn't played in that country, which is largely what we have here. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the fact that the www.rlef.eu.com site doesn't mention them would suggest that it's unlikely that there's any rugby league in Moldova, due to the fact that that site lists countries where even a few schools play. However, the article does seem to suggest that the national team's inactive and has no mention of domestic rugby league.James Bowes 16:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus to delete. W.marsh 16:59, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stadium buddy

seems to be an advertisement. I could not locate any independant references for it. Justinmeister 21:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete, spam. hateless 00:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. I know Rick Reilly mentioned it in a column, but that doesn't make it notable, nor does its ~600 Google hits. SliceNYC 22:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment If kept, move to a more medical term like "external male catheter" and then redirect as needed. My vote is still delete, though. SliceNYC 03:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. I've been using this as a generic term throughout Canada for a decade, as have my pilot friends and my wheelchair-riding friends. I do not believe this to be a brand name. Google will return an additional 500 or so hits if searching for the "external male catheter" technical name, or the other slang term "texas condom". Russ0035 02:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment To clarify, the Stadium Buddy is the complete apparatus, including the tubing and collection bag; not just the Texas Condom. The PZL_PW-5 that I fly has a tube under the seat cusion that lets me use just the Texas Condom and not the complete Stadium Buddy. Russ0035 04:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Comment And in the interests of full disclosure, I made the edits to this page on 2 Nov. I've signed up for a wikipedia account because, while I was comfortable making edits anonymously, I am not comfortable with defending them anonymously. I have never heard of a Stadium Buddy for sale, they're something I've assembled after buying the components in medical stores. (Interestingly, Texas Condoms are sized in colours instead of "S/M/L/XL" so that you don't have to ask for a Small one at the counter. I'm a size Blue.) Really old pilots told me what store to go to and what to ask for in parts, but they always called it a Stadium Buddy. Cheers, Russ0035 05:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Russ0035. It seems like a good-faith article (stub) and contains no links to places the thing can be bought, nor does it seem to be an actual trademark or brand-name. --Arvedui 02:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Russ0035. I agree that it looks like a good-faith stub and it appears to be pretty common among small aircraft flyers. Agne 00:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep. --Tito xd^(?!?) 03:09, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rugby league in Canada

Speedy delete. This is a hoax article. RL is not played in Canada. GeorgeWilliams 10:33, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Comment. You're quite wrong, according to this. Have you actually checked up on all of these nominations? - Randwicked 15:54, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Comment You should stop by Canada one afternoon. Of bloody course we play rugby here.

D e nni ☯ 01:43, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Keep Work in progress pages, plenty of information available.

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The result was Keep. Non-admin closing. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 23:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rugby league in Canada

Delete - While rugby league once was played in Canada it no longer is, so I don't think something virtually nonexistant merits its own page. James Bowes 21:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

*keep - I refer the nominator to this site, which clearly demonstrates that rugby league is still played in Canada. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep for historical value at the very least. The site I referred to above (and which was used in the previous AfD) is in fact about rugby union, a mistake which was made due to my browser being unable to load the entire page first off. That said, the nominator and I are both unable to find any evidence later than 2003 dealing with the sport in Canada - things can change drastically in 3 years, but at the very least we know it was played that recently. Importantly, there is no reliable evidence that the game is not played still

Comment - If you read the source you'd realise it was a rugby union competition and thus irrelevent to this rugby league article.James Bowes 17:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - I don't want to go calling names, but a check of this user's contributions makes for odd reading. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep - even if it was not currently played in Canada, a major sport in a major nation would still be article-worthy.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletions. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep The word "duh" comes to mind. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah but it's not at me, maybe at people who think a rugby union competition is a rugby league one.James Bowes 17:14, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep obviously. History is a key component in an encyclopedia. Resolute 01:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. I'd like the nom to give his source for the assertion that rugby isn't played in Canada. Since when? If that's the case, there's a rather active rugby club near where I live that never got the message. (All this said, the article needs work, but that's not grounds for deletion). 23skidoo 04:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
- -Check the articles for rugby union and rugby league. The rugby you know is a different sport to the rugby league of the article. James Bowes 17:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Still delete~~ That webpage is quite clearly rugby union. Rugby union is a semi-major sport in Canada, rugby league there is dead. Can you check the sources carefully before making claims. I refer people to this article rugby union in Canada and this one Rugby Canada Super League James Bowes 10:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment You get one "vote" to delete, not two or more. There's no sources indicating a dearth of rugby league. Additionally, remember WP:NPA and cease calling people "ignorant". BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I shouldn't name call but using a rugby union site as evidence for rugby league in a country is clearly wrong. The only site I can find for rugby league in Canada is this one:http://www.angelfire.com/ab7/canadianrl/. Despite being an active site there is no mention of seasons post 2003, and the guestbook has loads of people asking about rugby league in Canada, but no replies suggesting there is. It's quite clear that the sport is dead in the country but I'll try find better sources.—Preceding unsigned comment added by James Bowes (talk • contribs)

I'm impressed you can get anything at all out of that site. I've tried it a couple of times and the best result I got was a series of links with broken pictures (which were thankfully still clickable). Sort of a feeling-your-way-in-the-dark thing. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

If you move your cursor over the boxes to the left there are still open links, but that site, with no matches played since 2003 is the only page concerning rugby league (as opposed to the rugby union played in the Canada Rugby Super League) suggests that the sport is at best dormant in Canada.James Bowes 14:27, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep; even if something is defunct, it still has historical value. This is, after all, an encyclopedia, not just a directory of "things that are current in 2006". Bearcat 20:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep; article needs work but no need to delete it. Also I'm pretty sure Canada had two competitions at one point, either a East/West split or a split because of Superleague. Need to do some more research but that should be included in the article. Mattlore 07:12, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

There were Ontario and Manitoba 9-a-side leagues up til 2003 as evidenced by this site http://www.angelfire.com/ab7/canadianrl/ (you need to run the cursor over the left hand boxes for the link). However, all evidence suggests that rugby league in Canada has been dormant since 2003 (at least on an organised level, who knows if there have been ad hoc matches). I think the article needs heavy improvement as to describe rugby league as an emerging sport there is both inaccurate and a non-NPOV as there's no evidence it will ever emerge there. Not sure of the split but I would assume all rugby league in Canada was allied to Super League, as it was in most countries, with the ARL largely being localised.

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The result was Delete - Yomangani ^talk 13:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Randy Casey

Was originally speedy-tagged, but author protested. However, he did not give a reason for his protest. I'm not sure the article meets speedy criteria. P.B. Pilhet / Talk 21:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete "Jack of all trades" in supporting roles in the local music scene in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Some of his instrumental recordings have been used as background music in advertising campaigns and radio shows, but not featured in a way that would have listeners going out to buy a CD of the music. He has worked for notable musicians but hasn't done much of note on his own. The press clippings that he has re-printed on his personal website are underwhelming. This is about the same as having an article posted about someone who worked as the "Key Grip" on five or six well-known movies. Not encyclopedic material. OfficeGirl 23:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Article does not assert notability adequately. A Randy Casey has an AMG page, but it's unclear if it's the same person. And how do you record with a member of John Fogerty? (On second thought, don't answer that question). Caknuck 21:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. W.marsh 17:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] EGullet

Doesn't look like its been covered by any reliable sources. Admitted vanity article created by site owner. Doesn't seem to meet WP:WEB and fails WP:V. Delete. Wickethewok 21:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. Its always nice when the authors fess up to stuff. :-) EVula 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

So wait, you cant be the founder of said organization and write the original article? Its a not for profit charity! (jperlow)

Just because you're non-profit doesn't mean there's not a conflict of interest. Wickethewok 18:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

(Jperlow) There is no conflict of interest because I am no longer involved in the organization. There is no vanity because it is a short article that simply lists factual information based on data from publically avaliable sources, including the site's 501c3 determination filings with the Federal Government and at Guidestar. --Perlow 04:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyways, conflict of interest isn't the primary reason for deletion - there are still the issues of sourcing and failing WP:V and WP:WEB. Wickethewok 04:42, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

(jperlow) the eG Forums site meets -all- the criteria for internet content under WP:WEB and it should be noted that the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts and Letters is NOT a website and its a non-for-profit charity which has 501c3 status with the United States Government. eG Forums, the forum site that it hosts is a website. The material by which the article is based is can by publically accessed on Guidestar, therfore the entire content is verifyable --Perlow 01:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Wait, I'm not sure I understand how this meets WP:WEB/WP:CORP... what are your sources exactly...? According to Guidestar, they list 1.5 million non-profit organizations - what makes yours any more notable than any of those? Wickethewok 02:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. Seems to be mentioned often in news articles [44]. I have a gut feeling that reliable sources can be found for this one. Or maybe I'm just hungry. --- RockMFR 05:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Mukadderat 16:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Perlow and RockMFR --Arvedui 01:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete. Independent verification of notability still not provided during this discussion, although the author/owner is active here. `'mikkanarxi 21:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Half-Life Fallout

Looks like a non-notable forum, failing WP:V. I was about to speedy and but saw it had a long history and was formerly PROD'd and removed. Delete, as I think it fails WP:V/WP:WEB. Wickethewok 21:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

NN fan site, fails WP:WEB. TJ Spyke 00:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom and TJ Spyke. --- RockMFR 05:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Mukadderat 16:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. — CharlotteWebb 06:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canada national rugby league team

Delete - See above, I'm actually a fan of rugby league, but am trying to clean up these pages to stop people kidding themselves that countries that had a limited competition a few years ago deserve their own page James Bowes 21:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - Assuming sources can be found (something I'll turn my mind to shortly if nobody else does), this is a team in a notable sport representing a country. The amount of game time its seen is the only concern, but I remind the nominator that there hasn't been much international league (with the exception of Australia, NZ and the UK) in several years anyway. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
While I agree with the above rugby league has been non-existant in Canada for two or three years since the regional 9-a-side competitions folded and thus this is now a defunct national team. If they were still in existence I'd support the inclusion, but the fact that they didn't even consider entering the world cup qualifiers and haven't played internationals for years suggests that the team is dead. Maybe the results can be merged into a past international results section?James Bowes 22:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's the thing: Making the comment that "rugby league has been non-existent in Canada" doesn't actually make that the case. Indeed the reverse would appear to be true. A merger may end up being the best solution, but the way I read the whole thing is that the Canadian team is essentially on hiatus and may well return to the fold sometime soon - much like a football/soccer team which doesn't opt to qualify for a particular world cup. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment - I don't want to go calling names, but a check of this user's contributions makes for odd reading. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 06:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Surely the fact that I've left thirty other countries with a rugby league presence and just focused on two suggests something?James Bowes 14:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

It might do, yes, but it's always suspicious when a new user appears and immediately starts nominating articles for deletion and has a reasonable understanding of the process. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:44, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually I do think you have a point here. I've only just got my own computer, so the times I've edited pages (mostly rugby league ones) I've not thought to log in, as it was not my computer so it wasn't set up to log me in, and it wasn't necessary. I can see why it would look suspicious to you though. To be fair though, the reasonable understanding of the process is from the clear set out page on it.James Bowes 11:01, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. Once notable, always notable. A national team is notable, even if it no longer exists. --TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 00:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Again, the word "duh" comes to mind. Just because it's old doesn't mean delete it. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletions. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:37, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy Keep per WP:SNOW. A national team of a major nation in a major sport has zero chance of being deleted, no matter how limited the history is, and for good reason. Resolute 01:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep, of course, a national sports team is definitely notable, so this should not ever get deleted. --Ter e nce Ong _{(T | C)} 04:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Now I know that defunct national teams are notable, I will remove the deletion, but put a note that rugby league (as opposed to rugby union, which is fairly big there) is no longer played in Canada

Not a good idea. AfD tags are meant to stay until the debate itself is closed (chances are that this one will be soon enough, but still). Additionally, league is still played in Canada per the source I provided earlier, so adding erroneous information to an article doesn't help matters. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 11:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Please check your sources very carefully before making assertions. The above link proves that rugby union is played in Canada. You may not know the difference I gather, but rugby union (the form sometimes simply called rugby) is the type played in about 100 countries and is the type played in Canada and in the confusingly named Canada Rugby Super League. Rugby league is a sport played in about thirty countries, mostly in Europe and Oceania and is no longer played in Canada, there having been no domestic competition since 2003.James Bowes 14:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The link hadn't been working perfectly for me at the time I posted it, so all I had to go on was that it was used in a previous AfD around the same topic and that it contained the words "Rugby", "League" and "Canada". On closer inspection, you're right there. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 22:44, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Speedy deleted twice; once on 3 November by User:Merope as CSD A3 and again on 4 November by User:Slowking Man as CSD G11. GRBerry 03:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cybo

Non-notable game developer with no evidence of passing WP:CORP; two Google hits for "Cybo Studios" [45] - own website (empty) and one blog entry. No relevant GHits for "James the Marble" [46] or Pinbey [47]. Contested prod and prod2. ~Matticus ^T_C 21:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

This Should Remain Up As This Is Based On A Fan Making Game Company Who Do NOT Make Money Out Of The Games We Make, The Company is very small and not well known, only recently have we set up a site *hint the google detection*—Preceding unsigned comment added by Cybo studios (talk • contribs)
- Note Please see WP:NN and WP:CORP. Your admission that you are "very small and not well known" is one of the reasons your company does not qualify for a Wikipedia article. Best of luck, and I hope your company creates some amazing games. -- Kicking222 22:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- "Very small and not well known" is precisely why this article has been nominated - to meet Notability (companies and corporations), the business needs to have "subject of multiple non-trivial published works" so that information can be verified. While you're right that the Google test is not definitive in establishing notability, two hits for a video game developer is a very poor showing, even for a non-profit amateur group. I wish you all the luck in making and marketing your games, but you're a long way away from being notable enough for a Wikipedia article just yet. ~Matticus ^T_C 22:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete: NN. Palfrey 22:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete (as original prodder). Non-notable game company with non-notable games and non-notable gamemakers. -- Kicking222 22:04, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete as spam, creator was Cybo studios (talk · contribs). So tagged. MER-C 10:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Speedy deleted per CSD G11 as spam. --Slowking Man 16:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maryscott O'Connor

Brazen self-promotion by User:MaryscottOConnor - CrazyRussian talk/email 19:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Delete. She is also the author of the My Left Wing Wiki page. - Corporal Tunnel 19:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Notice: My Left Wing speedily deleted as nn web page by User:Freakofnurture. --Aaron 21:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Under what CSD? I thought things were harder to speedy-delete than people, generally speaking. But see my new suggestion below. —C.Fred (talk) 22:15, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment: It was CSD A7. It got expanded recently; here's the new wording of the updated db-web template. --Aaron 22:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

~~Delete or userfy~~ Speedy delete. I suppose if she wants to keep it as her user page, no harm there. ~~The autobiographical angle isn't my main concern: it's that she doesn't meet the criteria at WP:BIO. (By contrast, the blog does meet WP:WEB criteria.)~~ Author of non-notable blog implies no notability. Blog was strongest assertion, so speedy candidate now. —C.Fred (talk) 20:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC); revised 22:15, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete as WP:COI violation and per Cfred. --Aaron 20:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)Changing vote, see below.
Keep. Sufficient media coverage to warrant inclusion. Gamaliel 21:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Speedy delete per Cfred. --Aaron 22:19, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment Any assertion of importance negates speedy deletion. CSD A7, doesn't apply in the sense since it stresses her importance, it's easier to use deletion process instead of circular logic. Yanksox 22:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

True, but by precedent, the blog's article was deleted, and I saw more importance asserted there than in the O'Connor article, so by that logic, insufficient importance is asserted. Prior to MLW's speedy deletion, the assertion of importance here was that she created a notable blog. If the blog is non-notable, then what's the assertion of importance here? I still think speedy delete is merited, but I am not opposed to letting the AfD run its course. Besides, if I changed my opinion one more time, I'd be obliged to run for Congress and start getting written about in blogs. :) —C.Fred (talk) 02:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

"there's nothing wrong with having a partially open mind"

Cute, but you really should know better than that. Speedy deletion is not a domino effect, based upon "notability," it's based upon a lack of stressed importance. The article attempts to stress/assert importance. Also, there's nothing wrong with having a partially open mind, staying the course no matter what is why George Bush appointed Harriet Miers as a Supreme Court candidate. Yanksox 11:29, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Which is my point: there is no stressed importance, or else the deletion of MLW should be reconsidered as an invalid speedy due to assertion of importance, because there was a stronger assertion of importance in MLW's article than in O'Connor's. (Do I think the deletion should be reconsidered? No, based on the discussion here and WP:SNOW.) —C.Fred (talk) 21:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Userfy if subject prefers, or in the alternative delete (but not speedily, she merits a full AfD) as autobiographical and failing to satisfy WP:BIO. The article's sources consist of a Washington Post article in which she was mentioned as an example of a trend, as opposed to being the subject in her own right, and links to her own blog. --Metropolitan90 23:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete, I think, per Metropolitan90. I noted the Alexa and Technorati rankings for My Left Wing on that article's talk page were unimpressive, although MLW does rate #81 on the TTLB blogging ecosystem ranking of political blogs, so maybe it's up-and-coming. Maryscott O'Connor does rate a brief mention (cited to the article) on Daily Kos, which I think is appropriate at this time. --Dhartung | Talk 07:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep When you're the primary subject of a front-page Washington Post feature article, you are almost by definition notable. I'd say that they are _quite_ a bit more selective than we. Derex 23:48, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete NN. Not a speedy candidate though. Also it is a self-promotional bio. --Tbeatty 05:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Gamaliel and Derex. JamesMLane t c 09:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Ezeu 22:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, but IMPROVE, darnit! There's enough notability to warrant a brief and tasteful article about this person when written with NPOV. Pity she created the article herself. Pity that the article doesn't actually tell us anything that the media coverage said about her. I still think that a number of people would look for information on this person and want to learn briefly who she is, what she has done and her background. When I look at articles on AfD I ask "What is this article supposed to do, as created?" If it serves or is capable of serving to inform (not advertise) in the way I always relied on Wikipedia for knowledge before joining as an editor, then I am inclined to keep. OfficeGirl 22:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep She meets WP:BIO and her blog meets WP:WEB. However, the should be handled in the same article. I would suggest making My left wing a redirect to her.JoshuaZ 03:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete self promotion. If meets WP:BIO someone could write the article, but I don't think the editor should be the same person. --MaNeMeBasat 14:47, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep The Washington Post article about her shows notability. I hope people here aren't voting delete for political reasons. --Oakshade 06:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Did you know that a much higher percentage of deletionists are Republican/Tory as compared with the enwiki population at large? ^{[citation needed]} Food for thought! - crz crztalk 06:08, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
  - Cute. At least one of the users who voted delete has identified themselves as a Republican on their user page. --Oakshade 07:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep' and redirect My left wing, per JoshuaZ's suggestion. Self-promotion, maybe, but seems notable enough, as Derex points out. riana_dzasta 06:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Does not meet any criteria of WP:BIO, so far as I can see. 1) Multiple independent published works from reliable sources about her? We've got one, which is not multiple. 2) Enduring historic record? Not yet. 3) Elected official - nope. 4) Local elected official with significant press coverage - nope, and none visible. 5) Widely recognized entertainment figures and opinion makers (Hollywood walk of fame level) - no evidence presented. 6) Sportspeople - nope. 7) Actor/TV personality - nope. 8) Published author with multiple independent reviews of their work - no published reviews seen 9) Professionals whose work is likely to enter the enduring record - nope, not a professional, and no evidence yet that her blog entries will still be known in 10 years, let alone a generation. 10) Renown or notoriety for involvement in newsworthy events - 1 article in the press does not constitute renown; that is when the press just uses the name and everyone is expected to know who it is. As all WP:BIO criteria are failed, the article should be deleted. GRBerry 03:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
- You left some important chunks of WP:BIO out. Here are a couple:

This guideline is not Wikipedia policy (and indeed the whole concept of notability is contentious).

This is not intended to be an exclusionary list; just because someone doesn't fall into one of these categories doesn't mean an article on the person should automatically be deleted.

And besides, alot of people highly value her appearances on Fox News Channel and Fox Radio in addition to the Washington Post story on her and consider those notability confirmations. --Oakshade 04:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep I'm not american but she looks pretty notable to me ... --SandyDancer 18:52, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete promo Mukadderat 16:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per SandyDancer and Oakshade. A feature-article in the WaPo plus multiple television appearances suggests she's a good deal more notable than most. By all means, add to it to make it less promo-ish, but don't delete. --Arvedui 01:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dan Sokol

The individual appears only to be known for an exceedingly tenuous connection to Bill Gates in 1978

Delete "Tenuous" is right. Mention his name in the Open Letter to Hobbyists article but, since he has no notability outside that incident (and not that much within it) I don't see any reason for a separate article on him. Fan-1967 00:16, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, while Sokol continues to work in the Valley and has been involved in a few startups, I don't think he quite meets WP:BIO. --Dhartung | Talk 07:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Mukadderat 16:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. --Ezeu 00:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Airboat World Magazine

Too specialised to be encyclopaedic; reads like an advert. Firi e n § 10:40, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete. Not a notable magazine. Circulation figures not available but number of ghits is small suggesting low penetration. Reads like WP:SPAM. QuiteUnusual 12:09, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Yanksox

Delete no notable. Cbrown1023 22:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete — Too much of a niche market to be notable for WP. Also, agree with QuiteUnusual that it reads like WP:SPAM M a rtinp23 23:19, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus. W.marsh 22:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LisaNova

Non-notable "Youtube celebrity". WarpstarRider 22:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete or possibly Speedy Delete, no evidence of any notability off YouTube, and nothing truly spectacular within YouTube either. I suspect some of the "Other Notable YouTube Celebrities" linked to in the article should go too. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 22:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete Youtube doesn't make you notable. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You're notable if people take notice of you, which people have done with her 644,000 times over the past 5 months. I don't see why Youtube notability would be much less valid than Google notability. (Especially since the latter recently bought out the former...) --Arvedui 01:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Looks like original research to me. Unless some sources outside YouTube are provided, this should be deleted.--Transfinite 21:56, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Why are Youtube's internal user stats showing high popularity insufficient? --Arvedui 01:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

As Arvedui says: if this is original research, then any research is original--the author looked up the secondary sources himself, right? YouTube is not the author here--it's the primary source. JudahH 21:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Published sources are needed, not a hit counter. WarpstarRider 01:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Define "published". Here's a dictionary def. (answers.com): To bring to the public attention; announce. Something can be published online--what's so magic about print? I find the distinctions you keep drawing rather specious.

Strong Keep and improve. YouTube is like a media body in itself. Asserting YouTube isnt like a TV station for example is wrong, out out of times. LisaNova is a rising star, this article needs to develope along with her. I think it should remain to be seen how much traffic and edits this page recieves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.9.197 (talk • contribs)
Strong delete - I came across this one whilst doing my weekly speedy deletion cull of new youtube & blog 'personalities' that had slipped through the new page patrol. I nearly just speedied it anyway, but it's going through the process now, so there we go. Non notable biography, with no assertion of notability whatsoever. Proto::type 13:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Fails notability, no actual news stories Palfrey 18:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - In twenty years YouTube will be considered a huge part of a media revolution that is going on. We are thinking about now. Think about posterity. I agree with with the unsigned user, give it time.Enjoitherhythm 00:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC) —User's first edit.
Delete not nonable. Mukadderat 16:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep and improve - Youtube's user-stats are a perfectly reliable reference, and this girl has 14,000+ people watching her, with over 600,000 pageviews over the past 5 months. Whether or not her Google-stats are comparable, she clearly occupies a spot in the collective consciousness larger than most. --Arvedui 01:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - YouTube popularity certainly counts as notable - David Gerard 08:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

According to what? There is absolutely no demonstration of notability in this article. WarpstarRider 08:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

As a note, there are a few hits in mainstream news sources on google news for LisaNova, but mostly incidental mentions. Is borderline. Morwen - Talk 12:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Those would qualify as "trivial" coverage as defined in the guidelines, since she isn't the subject of any of those articles. WarpstarRider 22:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Weak keep No opinion on where to draw the line for notable, but I don't agree that notability from YouTube alone cannot be notability. But I don't feel like having this argument on every single "YouTube" page which is created. Isn't there a way to create a discussion page dedicated to the overall issue? JudahH 21:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment / Update I added an LA Times article as a refernce. --Oakshade 23:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Article requires a login, and the title doesn't seem to indicate that it is about this particular user. WarpstarRider 23:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Title doesn't, but the article has a large section of it about her. Never claimed more than that. Thanks for the link note. I'll work on getting full access (LATimes.com membership is free, btw). --Oakshade 00:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

She'd have to be the sole focus of the article. Just a section of one article doesn't really cut it. WarpstarRider 01:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't claim she was the sole focus of it. It's a reliable source that verifies material in the article. The subject doesn't</> have to be the sole focus to do that. --Oakshade 01:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

That is not true. Non-trivial coverage does not necessarily mean "sole focus" of an article, it means exactly what it says: non-trivial. Yamaguchi先生 09:51, 9 November 2006

Fixed LA Times link. Found same article that's non-subscription in the Chicago Tribune (sister newspaper of LA Times). --Oakshade 02:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

*sigh* Looks like the Chicago Tribune article has also gone subcription only. Reverted back to the LA Times version that requires a subscription to view. At least it's free. --Oakshade 05:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep YouTube keeps growing and growing in notability and importance (that's why Google is paying $1.65 billion for it and Verizon is in content talks with them [48]). Its stars are part of the reason why. --Oakshade 23:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The notability of the website does not make individual users automatically notable. WarpstarRider 23:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

But the stars (not just users) of that extremely notable website are. --Oakshade 00:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely not. I state again: Just because the website is notable does not mean that any popular user there is instantly notable by Wikipedia standards. WarpstarRider 00:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

That's your POV. --Oakshade 01:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

One that is more supported by the existing policies and guidelines. How on earth does it follow that if a website is notable, any popular users there are considered automatically notable regardless of any lack of significant outside recognition? That has no basis in any of the notability guidelines. WarpstarRider 01:26, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Because when you're a star of an enormously popular website, you have notability. Besides, for "outside recognition" i just found many more WP:RS that recognize this subject as notable. [49][50][51]... I remember you now. Didn't you try to delete Jessica Lee Rose and then moderators had to lock it and the following AfD consensus was Keep?... Well anyway, that's a great example of "how it follows" that a star of notbale website becomes notable. --Oakshade 01:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The first two are borderline passing mentions, and the last one doesn't seem to mention this subject at all. Again, popular YouTube users are not automatically notable just because they are popular on YouTube. WarpstarRider 01:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

At least this one is. The 3rd source does mention her (3rd paragraph from the bottom on page 1). The 4 (including this new one from the Chicago Tribune- [52] are very relaible sources giving "significant outside recognition" as you stipulated was nessesary. I see you've avoided the Jessica Lee Rose example as an answer to your previous question. --Oakshade 02:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

So that third article uses her name once; that's the very definition of trivial coverage. And I "avoided" the Jessica Rose example because it has nothing to do with this argument (and for the record, my position there was for merge and redirect to the lonelygirl article, not deletion). WarpstarRider 02:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

"Trivial" sources refers to things like "mentioning the person in passing" and "telephone directory listings." While that New Yorker article seems to mention her in passing, the others, particularly the Los Angeles Times one which has significant coverage, are examples of her having "significant outside recognition." The Jessica Lee Rose mention (you did delete all contents of it, btw [53]) was simply a direct answer to your question which you didn't seem to counter. I was just curious. --Oakshade 02:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

keep please not all youtubers are notable but this one is Yuckfoo 00:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Not by WP standards. WarpstarRider 01:05, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes even by WP standards. After performing a cursory search on LexisNexis I was able to locate five unique and non-trivial articles about LisaNova (also "Lisa Nova"), this person meets WP:BIO guidelines. Yamaguchi先生 10:19, 9 November 2006

Keep per several commenters above. As an example, The Los Angeles Times recently referred to two people, Lonelygirl15 and LisaNova, as "home-grown celebrities" in their October 23, 2006 article titled "CAPITALIZING ON AMATEUR VIDEO ; YouTube users keep dialogue running". Roughly half of the 26 paragraph article is devoted to Nova, and the other to Lonelygirl15. Wikipedia is the encyclopedic resource that people would expect to learn more about this person. Yamaguchi先生 09:58, 9 November 2006
Keep This YouTube 'celebrity' seems to be notable; and with there being sources available that are verified, deletion seems to be unwarranted. Brooke Brodack is another example of a notable meme from this site. --SunStar Net 10:07, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Yamaguchi and several others. --Myles Long 15:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per David "Fucking" Gerard ... (P.S. if you dont get the joke read his WikiTruth article.) ALKIVAR™ ☢ 17:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was Keep - Yomangani ^talk 13:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Big Block of Cheese Day

This is an article about a fictional holiday that was apparently mentioned in a couple of episodes of The West Wing. I believe it is non-notable. The article looks quite long, but the majority of it is composed of information irrelevant to the subject at hand. -Big Smooth 23:04, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Weak keep per Wikipedia is not paper. This article is well-written, well-sourced, and is too big for a merge into West Wing. It could perhaps be merged into The Crackpots and These Women and Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail, but I think it's better for those episodes to refer to this article than to decide which one this article is going to redirect to. --Hyperbole 23:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Comment: The article is not "well sourced"; several references are West Wing fan sites that are not reliable sources. In addition, the parts of the article that are sourced have nothing to do with "Big Block of Cheese Day"; instead, they incongruously expound on other events of the West Wing episodes in which the cheese day is mentioned. If those parts of the articles are of any value (and I'm not sure they are), they should be merged into "The Crackpots and These Women" and "Somebody's Going to Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail". -Big Smooth 23:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Delete, ref to minor detail of The West Wing. The majority of the article sems to have been lifted from somewhere else and is utterly irrelevant to the subject. Deizio talk 23:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete, non-notable American TV cruft. Lord Bob 03:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep This article is relevant to the series and represents a drastic change from the Sorkin years to the later years. Worthy of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by StayinAnon (talk • contribs)
Weak keep. The article could use some tightening up so that it doesn't look as much like info that's only interesting to fans, but I think that there's enough here, that it's a valid addition to the articles about the television show West Wing. --Elonka 20:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Comment - I'm a big fan of The West Wing and I love these episodes and the concept of Blg Block of Cheese Day. Having said that, I'm leaning towards delete. While the concept is cool, I don't think there's enough to merit its own article. The only reliable source is the passing reference to the book Real Life at the White House (ISBN 0-415-92320-4), which is what Sorkin based the idea off of. But I don't think that's enough to carry the article. I'll see if I can find some interviews with Sorkin or someone else involved with the show that might give this article some verifability. - Lex 09:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Keep I like it. Timb0h 11:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Weak keep. There isn't another good place for it, and I've heard the term used a little outside of the West Wing context from time to time, so maybe it's gaining a little traction. 72.16.11.92 03:48, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- User's first edit. -Big Smooth 22:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Yanksox

Keep as interesting and informative. This is no less notable than Better Know A District or any other number of articles about elements of fiction. Why do people want to delete well written articles? How is this harmful? This is a great example of why I oppose deleting articles based solely on the subjective issue of notability. — Reinyday, 02:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment - Looks like we're going to keep this, so I've cleaned it up and merged the irrelevant information into the proper episode articles. -Big Smooth 22:07, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Reinyday --Arvedui 01:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - When someone sees the mention of the day on the West Wing, they should be able to come to wikipedia and at least find something out about its actual history. --Ybbor^T 04:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep - It is certainly more interesting, informative and better reference then 99% of the fancruft articles that are lying about. The factual historical reference and its popular culture tie in are worth some encyclopedic merit. Agne 00:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fido man

Individual claimed as notable only within a particular university *Dan T.* 23:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete per whatever the new PC word is. -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk·Review Me!) 00:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete nonnotable. Mukadderat 16:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete clear autobiographical vanity-page/NN --Arvedui 01:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was delete. W.marsh 17:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] September 11th Pyroclastic Flows

This pertains to a conspiracy theory about the September 11, 2001 attacks. The article does not cite any sources, and focuses instead around one article hosted on a website "attempt[ing] to uncover the truth about September 11, 2001". We have a plethora of articles on the multitude of conspiracy theories surrounding that day, but the vast majority of them are on the conspiracy theory movement, instead of on the actual theories themselves. Of the few articles that we have on the actual conspiracy theories, the articles cite a multitude of sources and have established that the theories are verifiable and, at least within the conspiracy community, widespread and notable, something which this article fails to do. While a redirect to 9/11 conspiracy theories is plausible, I would advocate deletion, as the theory has not been proven to fit our criteria for inclusion, and a redirect from every conspiracy theory made regarding the events of that day would not be appropriate. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 23:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Delete Good for a chuckle, but it should be deleted. EVula 23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Without verification from reliable sources, the theory (as far as WP is concerned) does not exist, so a redirection- as stated by Flcello- would be inappropriate. -- Kicking222 00:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete no verification.-- danntm ^T _C 04:13, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete violates WP:NPOV and WP:V. NawlinWiki 04:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Do Not Delete I am the author of this article. I have never written an article before and am not good at editing for NPOV. People posted NPOV warnings on this article but posted no discussion of what was to be fixed. I don't think it is fair to post NPOV warnings without explaining yourself so I removed them. If they had left reasons on the discussion page I would have left the warning and discussed needed changes to the article. The article also is not finished as I work and cannot update it often. But the existence of pyroclastic flows in NYC on September is not deniable. You only need to look at the images from that day, from the tower being pulverised into dust (by what is the question,) to it blanketing the Island of Manhattan and going as far as New Jersey. When the article is finished please comment but do not delete the article because it is a conspiracy theory. The official story is also a conspiracy theory. 19 Arab hijackers conspired to attack the World Trade Center using airplanes. To use such an argument to justify it's exclusion is a pathetic argument, and to say that the one source posted so far is just an article is proof you have not even looked at it. It is a serious academic paper that has undergone four peer contributed revisions, and it is solid science. Not very advanced science, but correct nonetheless. The science behind this is not that hard, high school mostly. How much kinetic energy is in the buildings and jet fuel? How much energy is used in the dust clouds following the collapse? If the answer to the second question is substantially larger than the first answer, then you have a missing energy source somewhere. Couple that to the existence of red-hot metal at ground zero, 3 storeys below the ground, for 99 days after 9/11 is proof there was another, much hotter energy source present on 9/11. Please allow me to finish the article and please contribute changes to editing and format errors, or post competing science, but do not delete the article.

I have a newbie question: Is video from Youtube, even if it is from major news outlets, allowed on the site, or is it only pictures allowed on Wikipedia? WhoWillTellThePeople 09:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)WhoWillTellThePeople

Keep I think that the theory presented is completely and totally false. However, the article provides an explicit source for its claims. While I disagree with these claims as the ravings of the wackiest conspiracy theorists, the article is quite balanced and makes clear that it is an alternative theory, meeting all criteria of WP:NPOV and WP:V. I see no legitimate justification for deletion of this article. Considering that the article was created just days ago, the fact that no effort was made by more knowledgeable Wikipedia editors to improve the article or to seek improvements is an embarrassment to the entire project. Alansohn 23:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete per nom. Vsmith 00:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Do Not Delete The basic observation of the dust cloud clearly shows an event that nearly identically resembles a pyroclastic surge phenomenon. If you understand the sheer amount of energy required to lift and travel the pulverized materials in that way, you'd have to question how gravity and carbon fires could produce said energy. If you do the math, calculating the potential energy of the buildings prior to impact (at rest) and then measure the amount of energy required to do what we all saw happened, there is a dramatic deficit.. anywhere between a factor of 100 and 500, depending on the variables. This phenomenon must be researched and the government's denial of it must be backed up with test results. This article should stay and be improved with it's focus being the thermodynamic requirements to move that pulverized matter in the way we saw it happen. Wikipedia's policies regarding information like this is showing firmly that the interest is not to provide truth, but to cover up "dangerous" information on a governmental level.
weak delete. needs reputable sources and is unencyclopediatic and POV in current form. Both of these can be overcome, however; absurdity of someone's quackery is in and of itself not grounds for deletion if there are prominent and reputable sources covering the quackery. But until then... Baccyak4H 21:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete speculations. Mukadderat 16:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep per Alansohn --Arvedui 01:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete `'mikkanarxi 21:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was no consensus, defaulting to keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 00:35, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tim Bowles

First AfD was closed as a "no consensus" in a self-contradictory closure despite a 5/2 count for deletion and no sourced claim that the subject – a lawyer for Scientology – is notable. The best "Keep" argument (Bowles was Moxon's partner, until he messed up the Fishman/Geertz case) is not supported by any sources, and neither do the four sources establish notability. A Newsbank search for "Tim Bowles" Scientology yielded one article, for "Tim Bowles" yielded tons, but the top ten finds were about other Tim Bowleses. Absent better sourcing I recommened to delete the article or, if a notable role at Moxon & Kobrin can be established, a merge into that article. ~ trialsanderrors 20:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Try "Timothy Bowles" on Newsbank, as well as "Bowles & Moxon" and "Eric Lieberman"+Bowles. wikipediatrix 00:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Which ones would you pick for the article? Among the top 20, I can only find St. Petersburg Times - September 13, 1987, Scientology lawyer threatens lawsuit as about the subject, and that's more or less a press release. ~ trialsanderrors 22:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, Bowles was Moxon's partner [54] [55] [56], until he messed up the Fishman/Geertz case. Don't know what newsbank is, but maybe you need to search for Bowles Moxon without their first names. The two separated in the 90ies. I admit, there isn't a source (per Wikipedia standards) that Bowles was ousted of the firm because of the Fishman/Geertz case. But he is still notable enough as a Moxon name partner, and who's still lawyer for scientology causes. --Tilman 06:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
delete. Absolutely nonnotable attorney. Mukadderat 18:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep- Seems to be notableDr.khan 18:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Delete as insufficiently notable since person has not been the subject of multiple independent, non-trivial, reliable sources; see WP:BIO and WP:V. -- Satori Son 05:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Ezeu 00:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, he's notable on several Scientology-related fronts. Needs improvement, not deletion. wikipediatrix 00:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete So he's an attorney for this "church" (which is more like a cult, but thats besides the point), he dosen't seem notable. TJ Spyke 00:18, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong Keep as per Tilman, and I concur with Wikipediatrix. Orsini 07:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, don't see how he is notable. Agree with nom -- Samir धर्म 07:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Delete, not notable. Mukadderat 16:14, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Um, you've already voted on this AfD. wikipediatrix 23:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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The result was keep. Glen 11:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zionist Occupation Government

Additional information:

Wikipedia is not a dictionary. This is not a neologism, because it is not in common use outside of certain anti-semetic groups, and fails to cite any reliable secondary sources that meet the standards of Wikipedia's "Reliable sources for neologisms." At best, the subject appears to be a protoneologism, in which case it should be deleted because this article appears to exist only to promote the use of the term (despite that the article mostly contains critical discussion of the term, and many Wikipedians have attempted to correctly portray it as a fringe-term, they are merely playing into the hands of the individuals who wish to promote its usage.) In fact, the article has existed for several years and has neverbeen edited to include any references of sources.

If one considers the subject to refer to an actual organization, it should be deleted because it does not meet the criteria for the notability of organizations. Unlike significant items of historical interest, such as the Elders of Zion conspiracy-hoax, this "organization" is not notable; again, its presence as an article merely acts to ascribe notability to something nonexistant and invented by certain groups with ulterior motives.

Redundant: this subject is adequately dealt with as part of List_of_conspiracy_theories and therefore does not require more extensive coverage (and debate) here. If there is any content in the article that is additive to the subject of Jewish world domination conspiracy theories, it should be dealt with there. If it is determined that there should in fact be a separate page on Jewish conspiracy theories, it should be relocated to there.

keep It is notable, has been discussed in the New York Times, has other sources such as the ADL and SPLC. JoshuaZ 17:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment - Is there some sort of general antisemitic conspiracy article this can be merged with? --- RockMFR 17:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

There are pages for Antisemitism and List of conspiracy theories that would be more appropriate for this. Also, the page Jewish conspiracy currently redirects to this page. I'd suggest that when/if the content is merged elsewhere, that that page redirect to the new page (Jewish Conspiracy is clearly a larger subject than one particular acronym that hasn't met widespread usage.) Tarinth 18:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep, too much information to merge elsewhere, and mentioned at length in multiple sources. Kavadi carrier 18:03, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment I am undecided, but I have added some potential references to the talk page. Tom Harrison ^Talk 18:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep Article decently sourced (could be better). Too long an entry to be folded into another article. IronDuke 19:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep and Comment The term, despite its dubious merits, is notable. We aren't going to start deleting neo-Nazi terms like 88 next are we? ZOG is referenced constantly on supremacist websites, forums and propaganda. Comment though, can we clean up the talk page and keep it only to the article content? The tit-for-tat jokes and assorted silliness is not what talk pages are for. They are for discussing the current, past or future content of the main article. Thank you.--Son of More 00:18, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep — The article is appears nicely neutral in its current form, and this is a frequently used propaganda term of bigots and hate groups. It's a fine example of what's wrong with some members of the human race, and it's definitely encyclopedic. — RJH (talk) 18:12, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

"

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletions. -- Shuki 22:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)"
- I don't think the article has anything in the world to do with Judaism. Suggest removal. - crz crztalk 22:37, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep Those who choose to refer to a so-called "Zionist Occupied Government" are almost all the basest and vilest bigots on earth. That this so-called organization does not exist does not detract from its widespread use and notability. I don't see the unidentified flying object article being deleted, despite the paucity of little green men (another non-existant entity) detected by the folks swarming around our nation in black helicopters under the direction of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy (ditto). Let's devote efforts to stamping out anti-semitism, not information. Alansohn 23:43, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep. Agree with JoshuaZ that like it or not, the term meets WP:N and WP:V. It's been used by enough notable extremist groups that a number of major publications have reported on it. --Shirahadasha. Could possibly be Merged as part of the articles on Neonazism, Antisemitism, etc. 03:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Keep. Notable topic, properly sourced. It's a shame it has to exist, but the world is what it is. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:02, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep and cleanup. Needs more secondary sources, though. If there are no such sources, it should be stubified. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 20:41, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] East Doncaster Cricket Club

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