Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2006 July 30
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Maghull Snooker Hall
Delete. Non notable, non encylopedic. Nationalparks 00:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Chronicles of a local gathering party are not a necessary component of an encyclopedia. — NMChico24
00:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC) - Delete per nom MarkBuckles 00:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per NMChico24. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 00:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per both nom and NMChico24. --Tuspm(C | @) 01:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as profoundly unencyclopedic. Erechtheus 01:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Em-jay-es 07:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. rootology 08:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per above. SynergeticMaggot 09:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete, non-notable. And this is from someone who visits Maghull sporadically! --TheM62Manchester 10:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per above. Non-notable. -- Jared Hunt July 30, 2006, 10:18 (UTC)
- Trans-Wiki - Not all that badly written. But even a pretty strong inclusionist has a hard time arguing that it belongs here. Williamborg (Bill) 14:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as above. Acyso 21:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Crazy in Love (comic)
Delete, this unverifiable vanity article on a less-than-one-month-old non-notable minor webcomic. The article is unverifiable per our official content policies as it has no credible, third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. It does not meet the WP:WEB notability guideline as it has not been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works, has won no well-known and independent awards, and its publisher (Keenspot) is not both well-known and independent of the creators. The article seems to have been created by one of the webcomic's authors and edited by another Keenspot cartoonist. So, that's the trifecta of unveriifiable, non-notable vanity. -- Dragonfiend 00:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- This has been listed on Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics/Deletion. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 00:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I reject your assertion that Keenspot is not both well-known and independent of the creators. However, vanity does appear to be an issue and it has only been around a month, so I'm not going to suggest keeping it, either. In any case, it does have a version at Comixpedia: Crazy in Love. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 00:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm not sure if Keenspot is independent (I've seen it refered to many times, perhaps incorrectly, as a "collective," implying shared control by its artists); however, I believe that while it may be "well-known" to you and I it is not "well-known" in any sort of general sense. -- Dragonfiend 17:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as a non-notable webcomic. It's only been around for a month (well, not even that). --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 01:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Why would something that has been around less than a month need an article? — NMChico24 02:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as per well-reasoned nom. --MCB 06:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Per the very good nom. Too new to warrent inclusion. rootology 08:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wal-Mart statistics
The content in this article overlaps the content in Wal-Mart and List of assets owned by Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.. It is a list of subsidiaries and a store count per country and format, etc., but all content on here is already included in the other two pages. Tuxide 00:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Erechtheus 02:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Redundant article. — NMChico24 02:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I didn't think simply turning this article into a redirect was appropriate, since the bulk of the content is on List of assets owned by Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. and the word "statistics" is a more general term. To me, the statistics of a retailing company covers sales information and its relation to demographics, and content such as the median age and income of a Wal-Mart customer, etc. Since this article has none of that, I believed a full delete was more appropriate. Tuxide 02:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as per Tuxide. --MCB 06:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. --Bigtop 06:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Per nom and above. rootology 08:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as redundant. RandyWang (raves/review me!) 08:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete, redundant. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 15:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, not to mention some serious Wal-Mart-cruft. --Mr. Lefty Talk to me! 17:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete: cruft, cruft, cruft. Acyso 21:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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The result was Keep. SynergeticMaggot 00:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fatos Tarifa
Subject request, as he asserts that he does not merit an entry in Wikipedia. I have no opinion on this nomination. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 01:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Where did he make this assertion? --Nscheffey(T/C) 01:33, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Via email to Wikimedia, some of which I answer. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment So a former Ambassador from Albania to several nations and published author is not worthy of a Wikipedia entry? What a disgraceful nomination.--Thomas.macmillan 01:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, it is out of a courtesy to the subject that I nominated this. Please give others the benefit of the doubt. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 02:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Speedy Keep Where is the assertion by the subject that he does not merit an article? In any case, a neutral, factual encyclopedia article should exist for all persons of note, without regard to the their personal interest in the project. — NMChico24 02:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Meets WP:BIO as an international politician. As for his request, note that WP:AUTO states "People are generally unable to determine whether they are themselves encyclopedic.". --Nscheffey(T/C) 02:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Nscheffey, meets WP:BIO. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 02:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Per the above comments and the WP:AUTO citation. rootology 08:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Nscheffey. The argument of a subject deciding if there should have an article has also been delt with in several Daniel Brandt AFDed. (One example). In each case the clear consenus was that he did not have that right and that it would cause a dangerous precedence. This article should stay unless the subject can state a good reason for removal. Edgelord 08:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep - Pleased to see that a former ambassador is modest, but he is noteworthy (googles up quite legitimately). If there are errors in the article, we should correct them. But deletion is not warranted. Williamborg (Bill) 14:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Nscheffey. There may have been material in an earlier edit that he didn't want publicized, but that's been taken care of through editing. No need to delete an article. —C.Fred (talk) 21:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep As notable, however if it can be supported by sources as to why he is no longer in his former position it should be noted in the article as its obviously relevant. The family makeup however is not. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 12:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Nscheffey, the subject is too humble. :-) Yamaguchi先生 08:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep - notable per elements of the bio, however if this person has a good reason for deletion then it should be honored.--DawnTreader 03:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Blanked this as a courtesy
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] List of oil-rich countries
This page is a NPOV nightmare because of the term "oil rich". It also violates the tenet that Wikipedia is not a place for indiscriminate information in part and in part is duplicative of the much better chart of oil reserves in oil reserves. I don't even think a redirect is warranted. Erechtheus 01:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Merge and delete per nom--Jusjih 02:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete More unnecessary listcruffage. — NMChico24 02:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom.--Mertens21 a.k.a. FrodoTBagins, DonkeyPunch21, Squirrel 05:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. --Hyphen5 05:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Em-jay-es 07:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Per nom. rootology 08:20, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Michael 08:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Jacqui★ 14:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete - Jusjih is correct, the Oil reserves article contains all this material. Let's make this a redirect and be done with it. Williamborg (Bill) 14:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Redirect to Oil reserves, otherwise delete as unnecessary, POV, and redundant. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 15:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Redirect or delete per Coredesat. ><Richard0612 UW 15:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as per nom. --MCB 20:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete: listcruft Acyso 21:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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The result was keep. Ian Manka Talk to me! 05:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Comparison of Windows and Linux
POV; not encyclopedic (well, not very). Not much really has to be said about this article. –127.0.0.1 (talk) 13:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. I believe it is a good thing to inform Windows- and Linux-users of the incompabilities and downsides of each operating systems in order to equalize the percentage of use. Currently a big majority hold to Microsoft's operating system. --Karmus 16:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. You're never going to get a NPOV on this and still have it be a quality article. Some paragraphs are entirely "Windows users claim x. Linux users claim y. Windows users counter-claim z.", which doesn't make for good reading or good information. Anyone can claim anything and post it on a website, that doesn't merit its inclusion in an article. Particularely since most of the claims are from nebulous 'linux users' or 'windows users', which are hardly good sources. If the article was whittled down so that all these claims were of the form "<reputable independantly funded study> claims x" then it would be more interesting and informative than reading every gripe that every linux or windows user has ever had with the other OS.
Bongle 13:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Weird bug - it's redlinked in the page but this page exists and all :/ –127.0.0.1 (talk) 13:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Weak keep - no, it'll never be fully NPOV, but it has lots of references, crosslinks, etc, that show it has a lot of potential to mature. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 14:35, 30 July 2006 (UTC)- Merge to Comparison of operating systems per Karnesky (below). — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 19:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. It certainly does have the potential to mature and become more NPOV. People do want to read a NPOV article on this. --Bduke 23:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. It's far too broad of a subject to be able to cover with the kind of standards expected of Wikipedia articles. For those looking to keep this article, please review Wikipedia:The perfect article and think about how a single article comparing -all- of Microsoft Windows (and I mean *everything*, not just Windows XP's shell and web browser) to -all- of Linux could possibly be written. Have a look at www.xvsxp.com, which attempts to do a fairly balanced comparasin of OS X Tiger (one version of OS X) and Windows XP (one version of Microsoft Windows); the site is quite large, certainly much larger than any Wikipedia article we've got, and yet that site aims to be far less all-encompassing than "Windows" vs. "Linux". They didn't even try to address "server" issues... and imagine how much more complex this will become once Windows Vista comes out... No, this kind of article really needs to go. If someone wants to start more focused articles comparing a specific aspect of each operating system (such as the user interface, or included applications), then I would support that. -/- Warren 00:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Don't see a problem with the title or concept. Deet 11:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. The article doesn't have to be comprehensive in order to exist; it just has to be well-sourced and verifiable, which it is. --Aguerriero (talk) 22:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
What if someone actually wants to know the difference between Linux and Windows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 01001 (talk • contribs)
- Then they'll probably want a page that isn't just a rehash of every "Micro$haft vs Open source" forum flamewar ever —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bongle (talk • contribs)
- Comment. Should there also be articles comparing to other operating systems, such as those used on Macs? Would it be possible to create one article for a comparison between all operating systems that has headings such as "Kernel," "User friendliness," "Market Share," etc? --Wafulz 15:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Merge to Comparison of operating systems. This article is biased & has WP:OR and WP:V problems. However, it does have some useful info and references which the broader comparison lacks. --Karnesky 18:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
If anything there should be a comparison of open source as opposed to proprietary systems. As it is, GNU/Linux is the most popular open source and Microsoft is the most popular proprietary system, so the page is probably just about right at least as far as needing to there.01001 19:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep - the main "comparisions" is ok for tabulation, but merging all would make it way too big. The answer to NPOV in this case is to put both POVs, the pros and cons of each. Ace of Risk 14:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep there doesnt seem to be anything wrong with the article and its staying at a neutral point of view --Alegoo92 23:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep - seems pretty encyclopædic to me. No reason why this should be deleted. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was keep, despite nonsense from socks, there's enough evidence that he meets WP:BIO according to the arguments -- Samir धर्म 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pradip Somasundaran
 |
ATTENTION!
If you came here because somebody asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus amongst Wikipedia editors on whether an article is suitable for this encyclopedia. We have policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting heads (or socks). You can participate and give your opinion. Please sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Happy editing! |
May fail WP:BIO and seems pretty certainly to conflict with WP:VAIN Seidenstud 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Delete.It's also a WP:HOAX.A google search for Lata Mangeshkar Trophy Pradip Somasundaran gets only 2 results. One of them appears to be his personal site. alphaChimp laudare 16:35, 30 July 2006 (UTC) Striking out vote until further evidence presents itself. alphaChimp laudare 17:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. I no longer believe this is a hoax, but it's still not meeting WP:BIO per nom. alphaChimp laudare 17:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. I'm just going to go with my original vote. After considering the many sock arguments, I just cannot see any significant notability emerging (other than "he is a hero to the karala people"). The sockpuppets and personal attacks have to stop. It's getting a little ridiculous. alphaChimp laudare 14:51, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Alpha. Do not take a hasty decision. All are not socks. Many admins and some like jyothis are genuine editors who are from malayalam wiki.I may be new here but have sincere intentions and am here to expand the music section with many more articles on singers of kerala (Already started one on Gayatri Asokan). Jyothis has given many more links to clear the notability issue. Also please could you explain why this should be deleted? You already might have known that he is a hero for the kerala people. If so he should be notable! The huge response is natural as he has a big fan following in kerala. There are also some other people like Amit Sana who have an article. Why are you all silent on the many comments on amit's article? Sock or no sock you should have a reason. somasundaran's article satisfies so many wiki guidelines while only one is required to qualify it. So what is the problem here? Anyway jyothis has come out with so many links to prove credibility, notability and verifiability(see down). You can also ask him (anyone) to improve or modify the article.Also understand that the section on playback singers from kerala is very weak. Don't we need to improve it? Also seems the so called pradipsomasundaran who wrote the article first was just a fan who was after some fun and is no more on this scene. But fact remains that he has just managed to bring this unnessary controversy by putting up a half baked article in the first place. But we feel that this wonderful artist should not be disgraced further due to this imposter's mistakes and by people such as Angeo who seem to have stooped to low levels of personal attacks. That's why all are pained. This has become a fight for dignity for all of us from Kerala. Also now the article has some dignity and now the vanity issues should not be insisted as the original editor has run away. Please remember that we are all judging on a wonderful singer in his absence!The only way we can end this seemingly unending ridiculous war is stopping this on a good note with dignity restored for the singer.But we should give praise to all who managed to bring up so many information on the singer. Let's take all relevant and useful info and use it to put up a good article instead of turning a blind eye to their efforts.
If he was not notable then he would not be participating in such a reputed program in kerala! I feel like a fool in having to show you such links to make you and others believe that pradip is one of the most popular singers of Kerala who is very very busy. (Are the knowledge of the respectable Admin's in Music and Musicians of Kerala worth it?) What more is there to prove?? --Gluewhale 09:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Do not delete: http://www1.yashrajfilms.com/meta/meri.htm
The above link will prove the contention on "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pradipsomasundaran (talk • contribs)
- Comment. You might want to read WP:BIO in regard to your case. Are there any notable newspapers attesting to you? alphaChimp laudare 17:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil. --Ageo020 21:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I just deleted 2 "votes" that were from the same IP: 59.93.32.243, the first one of which contained abusive ad hominem aspects. Can anyone confirm or deny if this IP is a sock of Pradipsomasundaran? The reason I ask is that the two users (anon IP and registered) happen to be the two users who are responsible for the authorship of the article in question. -Seidenstud 02:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: Seidenstud, an IP is not a sock puppet. --HResearcher 10:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Do not delete: It is pitiable that the person above who has commented on winning "antakshari" does not realize that antakshari is a musical game and not a (singing)talent scouting competition. Pradip did win the Meri Awaz Suno singing competition and has been singing for many movies consistently down south from then groomed by none other than the Great music director Late Shree Raveendran.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Andholanam (talk • contribs)
- Do not delete : This man and the claims are as genuine as they get.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.237.175.207 (talk • contribs)
- Do not delete : Mr Pradeep Somasundaram is a genuine singer and he has won several prestigious prizes. He is well know person in Kerala and to the whole of Malayali community which comes to millions world-wide. I myself was a witness to many of his achievements.Please do not delete as some ignorant person has posted some wrong information about him.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dotcompals (talk • contribs)
- Do not deletePradip Somasundaran or also spelt as pradeep somasundaram has sung many songs, even for Illaiyaraja!
- He has many albums too in malayalam. Does many T.V programs too.
- has sung for 1) ravindran 2) johnson 3) vidyadharan 4) mohan Sitara 5) kaithapram
- 6) Balabhaskar
- Some links to his credit
- http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/m/singer.2808/
- http://www.kalakeralam.com/music/playback.htm
- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355735/combined
- http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/03/stories/2006010303880300.htm
- http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/07/stories/2005010718020300.htm
- http://www.thehindu.com/2005/10/02/stories/2005100206690400.htm
- http://www.raaga.com/channels/malayalam/movie/M0000374.html
- Manjeera Dhwani. Language. Malayalam. Director. Bharathan. Year Of Release. 1998. SongID. SongName. Singers. :SG002533, Mohini Enikkae, Pradeep Somasundaram ...
- raajangahm.com/ric/film/FL001011.html - 4k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
- He is also a FSF supporter and linux enthusist! http://gnowledge.org/pipermail/fsf-india/2001-July/001564.html
- He is a very famous personality in Kearla! We do not want his article deleted! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.32.28 (talk • contribs)
- DO NOT DELETE Pradip Somasundram has indeed won the contest mentioned and is well known in the Malayalam Music scene. His other professional commitments do not allow him to be a full time singer, that does not take away his merit as a singer of repute.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.154.12.174 (talk • contribs)
- Do not delete :Pradeep Somasundaram from kerala, was the first one who achieved the Lata mangeshkar award for the program " Meri awaz suno".It was the first ever popular hindi music show conducted throughout the whole year by the TV channel Doordarshan. Famous hindi play back singer Sunidhi Chauhan introduced to films only after winning the title of Meri awaz Suno " along with Pradeep Somasundaram.
- Pradeep has won several awards on music and he sings in Hindi,Tamil,Malayalam etc.
- The following links shows his authenticity.
- http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/13/stories/2003021300960400.htm
- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355735/combined
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunidhi_Chauhan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.144.73.89 (talk • contribs)
- Comment I believe this guy is genuine. But I don't think he has achieved enough fame to merit a wikipedia article. The links provided which go the newspaper The Hindu were verified by me. Some of the article just mentions his name with a long list of other singers which just say that he is going to sing at this function/festival/programme. Also the IMDB article mentions that he has just sung for one film which is Manasam. Some of the singers which this page has mentioned such as Sunidhi Chauhan have sung in many fims/albums. Also they are known throughout India.
- Furthermore, some of the comments mentions that he has worked with well known music directors such as Kaithapram and Ravindran. Google shows absolutely no hits regarding this. Google hits must not be used as a basis for an article but it could mean PS has worked with them in one movie or a song.
Finally, Pradeep Somasundaran's google hits show it to be 901. But on further inspection, there are just about a dozen sites which really mention this guy. --Ageo020 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Do Not Delete Pradip Somasundaran is genuine, very much so! 'Meri Awaaz Suno' was probably the first every Indian TV competition for singing talents and was endorsed by the likes of Yash Chopra. This show was hosted by Anu Kapur, and was one of the very few popular programmes on Doordarshan at the time. It is true that Pradip did not get a major break in the Hindi music scene, even after being a clear winner on a national stage. However, he has worked with some of the great music directors in south indian languages like Ravindran and Ilayaraja.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.31.106 (talk • contribs)
- Comment. I understand you desire to have an article on Wikipedia. How about just placing the article in your userspace and dropping the whole matter? It'll show up in people's google searches, giving you what you're looking for. You have yet to cite some notable news source asserting your significance. I'm thinking something like BBC, New York Times, etc - something Wikipedia users have heard of. As for flooding this AfD with anonymous opinions...it's just silly. Anybody can see through the pattern of edits. Quite frankly, your interests would have been best served by posting one clear, well written opinion regarding your notability. I'm just saying. alphaChimp laudare 22:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- I should probably qualify that post. Looking back on it, I'm not sure it was assuming good faith as much as I'd like. If you are really all separate editors, then it's great that you are expressing your opinions. The pattern, however, seemed to suggest the contrary. alphaChimp laudare 22:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Do Not Delete
- Alpha Chimp,
With due respect for the pain the administrators and other wiki evangelists take to maintain this, Let me note my comments on the matter. let me state that we are not in here to fight, but to determine the credibility of the article and person in question. Please note the points below, that I would like to present for your kind perusal.
- 1. According to the WP:BIO,point 1, "The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field ",
- He is a noted playback singer of south india, who has won the prestigious national level singing competition, Meri awaz suno, conducted by the Indian government's official Television channel called Dooradarshan. The show was anchored by noted theator and film actor annu kapoor. he has sung in south indian movies and albums (I'm not listing it again, as people have already done a few above) and is recognized as a playback singer in the south indian film industry.
- quoting the part under success stories in [29]yashraj film's page on mary awaz suno,
- "Pradeep Somasundaram (a mega final winner): Pradeep is an established artiste in the Malayalam music industry and has sung a number of songs in South India."
- 2. According to WP:BIO, point 4, "Widely recognized entertainment personalities and opinion makers"
- On top of the above mentioned points, He has played an active part in the revolutionary online free music movement called blogswara [30], which is even compared to the opensource revolution in the computing world. He is a very popular figure in the public programs and musical functions alike. Also, he has been a guest in television shows in south india as well.
- 3.According to WP:BIO, point 6, "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:
Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers "
- The Hindu is a national daily, which has showcased the artist in
- a. [31], which says
- "Nine singers, led by Pradeep Somasundaram and Gayatri brought alive nearly 28 songs, with a couple of drama songs also thrown in for variety."
- b. [32] which says
- "On these days, from October 6-15, that is, the Navarathri season, Kairali provides two and a half hours of dance and music each day. Noted dancers and singers from all over India will take part in it. Some of them are Alarmel Valli, M Jayachandran, Pradeep Somasundaram, Chitra Iyer, Sarat, Gaurav MajumdarSudha Raghunathan, Padma Subramaniam, Lakshmi Gopalaswamy. There are other dance-dramas too. "
- c. [33] which says
- `Technofest' begins at Thrissur
- THRISSUR: `Technofest,' the annual State level cultural festival of the engineering college students, was inaugurated at the Thrissur Government Engineering College here on Friday by Lonappan Nambadan, MP. Singer Pradeep Somasundaram was the chief guest. The inauguration, scheduled to be held on Friday, was postponed following the death of a student of the college. As many as 2,500 students from 65 colleges are participating — Staff Reporter
- d. First time malayalam podcasting service, podbazaar :[34] has showcased the person. according to podbazaar, "Pradip Somasundaran needs no introduction for people from Kerala and for those who have heard/seen the first of its kind musical program Meri Aawaaz Suno in Dooradarshan some years back. He won Lata Mangeshkar award for the best Male singer. And the best female singer was Sunidhi Chauhan. Now he sings for the movies and albums. A great singer and a cool and humble person."
- I disagree with Ageo's comment on the Saregama and Antakshari, as this program was the trendsetter, which set the stage for a lot talent search and musical programs, including Saregama, which appeared in the time followed in various channels in the country.
- On these basis, I believe that it fits WP:BIO requirements and hence I request the wiki team to not to delete the article.
- Thanks!
- --Jyothis 00:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I would like to disagree on some of the above points. This may seem like a wiki war but please bear with me.
- 1. If he is a noted playback singer, why does IMDB list only Manasam as his only credit. Being a notable singer, why does he only feature in only 3-4 articles in the Hindu. Why doesn't he come in other South Indian newspapers like Malayala Manorama, Deepika, Indian Express or Mathrubhumi. (please consider that this is not an attack on the reputation of the Hindu)
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- Answer: See here. http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ This lists more songs. Still this is not complete
These have malayalam fonts and do not appear in searches. Simple fact! If you want more articles just on this person enough can be provided as he he performs all over the state.
- IMDB is very unreliable for judging the significance of Malayalam film personalities. It may be used to argue that someone is notable, but never than someone is not. It lists five films for Baburaj and two for Dakshinamoorthy while the actual number is well over hundred for both.
- 2. Google hits on this guy are very few. A noted playback singer must generate atleast 1000 hits. Even though he has 901 hits, only 10-12 actually mention his name as a singer. The rest are just hits for the surname somasundaran.( sunidhi chauhan, PS's co-winner in MAS generates 160,000 hits)
- Answer: See searching the name pradeep somasundaram. He is also listed in this name.This will give you another 900 odd results. Then the total make it almost 1800! So that will get you to your magic number of 1000. After all who brought this rule that a playback singer ought to have at least 1000 hits? Strange!
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- 3. The site blogswara just has below 8000 hits. And there is no mention of this site in any national newspaper comparing it to open source revolution. Also please note that the site has just about 10 songs to be downloaded, one of which belongs to PS.
- Answer: Did you except all songs to be sung by Pradip? The site clearly tells that this is a joint effort. Not a single persons album.Silly argument which does not guage a person's popularity. If so all films & albums would have songs only by single persons.
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- 4. Podbazaar is the audio version of Youtube. Users actually upload a songs or interview and write an article about it. It means that a user can write anything about it. It's not necessarily reliable. Also note that podbazaar is not in the top 100,000 sites according to Alexa.( it is around the 1 million mark.)
--Ageo020 02:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Answer: We are not talking about Podbazar's popularity here.
- Please do answer this question: Is there a meter by which you can guage a person's popularity? No. Have you lived in Kerala since 1996? Have you heard this person's songs? Then why do you say that he is not popular? Based just on the Internet searches?
Info on the net is based on what info we feed into it. Kerala is very bad in internet density. Broadband started here only in 2005! So it will take some time for people in Kerala to be internet savvy. Please take all these facts into consideration.--59.93.35.130 12:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment
- Ageo, I dont know on what basis you say that other major dailys has not recognised the person in question. The Hindu has a good online edition and I believe that you will not be searching in the native language, say malayalam or tamil. the problem with the current system that uses the ascii fonts used by individual language dailys are custom-built, which takes out the searchability. hence, I would think that the argument which says he doesnt generate google listing does not hold much good.
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- Also, I would like to know how many movies are listed in IMDB, with a comparison to the actual number of movies released. this is to identify the authenticity of the argument that says that IMDB doesnt have any records.
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- Please note that the blogswara recorded 5000+ hits and 300+GB downloads within no time of release of its first album, in which the person is a part of.
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- Its my bad that I mispresented the part of podbazar. It was mpod [35], which I should have mentioned.
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- On the point that Sunidhi chauhan generated that many, please note that she sings in Hindi, which has a wider audience level and reachability in the net. whereas the other languages are yet to make their way into the internet community in the level as hindi has.
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- I feel that the Searchability on the net may not give an actual picture on the subject.
- Comments and questions are welcome.
- --Jyothis 02:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment Unfortunately being mentioned in a list of other people, all of whom performed does not constitute a "feature" as in "Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers." A "feature" is (from wiktionary) " 1. An important or main item." Being listed in the context of many others who participated in an event that was features does not constitute a "feature." As far as the unreliability of search tools to properly reflect foreign-language sources, this may have to condemn the article to unverifiability (WP:V). Seidenstud 03:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment
- Is this a wiki war? Seems like one of your mods Ageo is bent on making it so! He seems to be from Kerala and still bent upon to discredit a person about whom he does not know anything. Hey accept the facts. The other mods are more mature.Have a broader outlook.
- contention1): Why is pradip singled out when the abhijit sawants/amit sanas all have articles here?
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-
-
I am a press reporter & writer based in Kerala and know this singer since 1994. I think it's time to close this discussion.Most of the supporting comments are from amateur fans. I am a passerby and was alarmed to see so much talk based on just news from internet! Net or google is not the final word on any person's popularity or talent it also gives incorrect and incomplete facts many times.There is more to a celebrity than google. Has anyone of the mods here has ever heard this man's voice? You can judge his popularity from his music blog. It's unfair to comment on a person's talent & popularity from factual materials just from the Internet without taking a round up of other important factors like regional popularity and support.So thought of giving some clear facts without any bias as one of the mods here has suggested.
A celebrity is more than internet news. It takes just minutes to be one and years to sustain it.Pradip became a celebrity for all malayalees in 1996 and is still going strong after 10 years.
- contention 2): I found articles about Kazi, Abhijeet Sawant, Amit Sana
(http://en.wikipedia.org./wiki/Amit_Sana - This man does not have any material to support any claims as per this wiki but still he is there!)and even just some participants of the Indian idol/ program on your wiki who are here just due to this single T.V program! Some have not even sung a single film song or any album to credit!
- Who authorised this article to stay without even an iota of supporting facts as pradip has?
Then why should pradip not be here? (Just a contention)
- Contention 3) The same rule should apply for everyone.He is a celebrity since 1996. Some
of his achievements are as below.
- 1) 1991-President's Gold medal winner in A.I.R National level Light Music
competetion
- 2) 1996- Lata mangeshkar Award for best male singer of India in Meri Awaz
Suno, the first National level Televised Music competetion.
- 3) 1997- The prestegious TOYI (Ten Outstanding Young Indian Award) given by
JCI International which is recognition to his contributions TOYI Award
- 4) 1998- Best T.V Playback singer of Kerala award for the
song"Ennakkaruppin"
- 5) He is a regular in many T.V programs and has done a listless number of
Albums.
- This list is endless and they are only some of his major achievement..He has
performed all over India & in all the gulf countries many times.
- So your first requirement of having won atleast an award of National repute
is satisfied as he has won three such awards.
- He was one of the few Indians selected by the Indian & Japanese Govt. to participate
in 1) Ship for the world youth program-1994 http://www.swyaa-india.org/Pprofile.asp 2) Renaissance-World Youth Prog-2003 http://www.iyeo.or.jp/Ren/2003/edu/profile.htm
- None of the above music competetion winners have such a brilliant profile of
international stature and varied interests!
- The finding by one of the mods about singing in only one film is not true.
- The list is incomplete as he has been signed by Sandeep Chowta to sing in a
major Hindi Film! This list which too is incoplete has many of his songs: click on the singer pradip and you will find more films in which he sang.
- He permanently appears on this T.V program in Kerala:
- http://www.amritatv.com/html/anjali.php
- Mod's: The list and details about Indian Playback singers is very new and
without much indepth info. Why don't we all try to expand it rather than closing out such talents. You should also expand to wider areas of information other than just basing your findings on the number of google hits.
- An encyclopaedia should try to bring comprehensive info on even the smallest info.
Wiki should also be about trying to find real talents(who do have contributed in their fields) who need to be introduced to the whole world. Let's not shun away from expanding knowledge and throwing light for the world. No one should be discriminated against.Let's give credit to the people who introduce such new faces to the wiki. Isn't the whole existence of the wiki based on expansion of such new info?
- I have presented a comprehensive writeup based on my available knowledge. I
do not know why all these facts were not mentioned in this article in the first place by the creator! If still this does not warrants merit then God save the person who started this article!
- Radhakrishnan
- --59.93.15.182 05:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Pradip has been on the music scene since 1996 since he won Meri Awaz Suno. This music show was the forerunner of the many later music shows such as Sa Re Ga Ma and Indian Idol. Also note that he is a major celebrity in his home state of Kerala. Also according to WP:BIAS not many people outside South India will know him. Hence, he is culturaaly significant for him to merit an article over here. --202.150.117.156 05:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep : Pradip Somasundaran is truly Self-made. He is very talented and has many achievements to his credit. How Popular are Internet and Google in 1996 when he won the talent show for Meri Awaz Suno which was famous and broad cast all over India on television channel.
Indian national Newspapers like to sell their stuff based on political news . We are discussing about talent here. Wiki needs to introduce people of talent instead of repeating something already on the net. His contribution to music in Kerala is remarkable.
- Keep He is a well known singer in Kerala. Google hits on him will be far and few. But that doesn't mean malayalam and local newspapers don't cover him. The Hindu is one of the major South Indian newspaper which keeps a good online record. Also local TV networks cover him regularly. He has worked with great music directors such as Ravindran and Illayaraja. Some of his music albums are all the rage in college campuses throughout Kerala. At the time of his victory in Meri Awaz Suno, he was interviewed by every TV network in South India. But as 10 years have passed since then, not many people will remeber him. One of the users is hell bent on destroying his credibility, I am sorry for him --130.216.191.84 23:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- This IP address is likely associated with the vandal Nilmar1--see below. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep The people of Kerala are quite angry with the harsh treatment of one of their favourite sons. This discussion is not even needed. Pradip is being harassed by some people who don't even know him. I hope the editors have enough common sense to keep this article.--Nilmar1 23:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Nilmar1 was just blocked indefinitely for vandalism. This account was likely used from IP address 130.216.191.84 (above), as the edits are very related. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - He is a notable Singer and a TV personality known all over Kerala and amongst all keralites all over the world.His name is not usually referred to as Pradip Somasundaran but it is either Pradeep Somasundaram or Pradip Somasundaram . - Bharatveer 04:22, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Hi All, As a wikipedia user and music lover I know him since 1996's Meri avaz zuno. He was notable singer since then. Becasue this was a famous program. And after that he sings for malayalam movies and Albums.I modified the article Pradip Somasundaran .I think now it is better than before.But one thing is that this is the first time I am hearing his name is Pradeep soma sundaran rather than Pradeep soma sundaram.
Rgds Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Don't Delete - PradipSomasundram(n) is a well-known playback singer. He bacame famous through the TV program 'Meri Awaz Suno'. He won the State Award for the Best Playback singer (TV awards; not for a feature film). -- Rajith Mohan :) (Talk to me...) 07:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Weak keep I am going for a keep here. Pradeep Somasundaram (sic) appears somewhat notable, though not very much so. As per the musiconline link provided by someone above, he has sung in atleast five seperate movies. One significant role/song in a movie, or minor ones in five is good enough for me. "Pradeep Somasundaram" gets just over hundred google hits and the first two pages contain a few good links. Tintin (talk) 07:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong keep "Pradip Somasundaran" gives 751 google hits and add to the 100 odd hits of "Pradip Somasundaran" makes it almost 850 strong hits. Both are the same person. He has international youth exchange programs to his credit as per some hits and links above. What is his drawback here? I do not understand.
No way to ignore such a multi talented personality. --59.93.39.205 10:35, 2 August 2006 (UT
- Do not delete: Pradip Somasundaran is a well know artiste in south indian music industry(especilay malayalam).He is known by his performance in "Meri Awaz Suno"
- Week Keep - I myself am from Kerala, but I confess I've never heard of him before. As the Musicindiaonline link shows that he has sung in nearly 5 movies, I think he is quasi notable. -- thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK12:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- DO NOT DELETE:Pradip Somasundaran is a well known music figure in the state of Kerala and across India afterhe proved himself by winning the Lata Mangeshkar trophy for the best male singer in India. I wonder why this article is considered for deletion!
- Strong Keep I am a member of FSF from Kerala. I know this guy very well. When R.M.S was here in Ernakulam he was there with us. He entertained R.M.S with his melodius songs and R.M.S played the flute.
From all the above mentioned information, the following points are enough to merit his article here 1) He has sung in many Films (only some are indicated in Internet as database is old) . Heard he sang in a new film of for Ramesh Narayan. Saw the news from papers. So he is a playback singer and active. He is a life member of M.A.C.T.A (Malayalam Cine Technicians Association) 2) His songs appear on Television channels almost every day! 3) He has two Awards of National repute 4) He has a music blog which is live proof of his activity in music field and his blog is listed the fifth in it's category in India Indian Bloggers Websiteand touching 6000 hits in a span of 3 months! 5) He has participated in International Youth Exchange programs two times. 6) He propagates the use of free software in Kerala. 7) He is an eminent lecturer who teaches Electronics which makes him special and different from ordinary singers All these show that he is a multifaceted personality. I found even lesser mortals having articles written on them. Whay have you not gone after such people? So let there be sanity. Let talent courtesy and vanity get it's worth. Make your judgement on what has been mentioned on the article and whether it well supported by people who have opined and facts available. Anoop --59.93.33.147 17:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Do not delete - I am a malayalee, and I have heard of Pradeep Somasundaram. I have also seen his performance in Meri Awaz Suno. He is not a very famous playback singer (musicindiaonline.com search reveals this), but definitely has the talent. Let's keep the article after giving it a through edit - Anandpiyer 18:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Do not delete - I am not a regular contributor to the English Wikipedia, but I regularly contribute to Malayalam Wikipedia (See My contributions). In my view, Pradeep Somasundaran is a singer well-known enough to be mentioned in Wikipedia. Umesh 21:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Do not delete I is a person who works in Dubai and have seen this person's live stage programs there many times. He came there many times with East Coast Vijayan. His song Ennakkaruppin Ezazhagu is a hit there. We see his songs almost daily on doordarshan, Amrita, Asianet and Kairali T.V.
His Symphony program on Kairali was exceptionally good. Also the song "Porumo En Shya Megame" on Doordarshan is now a legend for malayalees all over world. Also his ghazal programs and Stage showas on Asianat and ACV are very good. We also regularly watch Anjali and Ghazal on Amrita T.V there. I speak for thousands of gulf malayalees. Do not delete this article because one foolish ignorant malayalee who has not seen Kerala or lived here does not know Mr. Pradip. Thousand of malayalees in kerala and abroad cannot forget Meri Awaz Suno. He is the only malayalee who won a hindi singing competetion.
George Philip-Dubai-On leave--59.93.34.122 01:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)—
- Strong Keep
says that:
Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:
Multiple features in popular culture publications or national newspapers
A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following
An independent biography
Name recognition
says that:
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- A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
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- Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
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- Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
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- Has won or placed in a major music competition.
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- Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.
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- Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.
Hence any small child could see from all the presented facts that he qualifies more more than one of the above when only one of the above is required for his inclusion.
So I request the administrators to end this unnecessary discussion and let the article be improved with further info on this person with mistakes which as per your rules removed.
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- As per the above newbies are to be encouraged. Here some admins like Ageo are violating this basic spirit.
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- As per the above personal attacks are unwarranted. But Ageo is waging a personal war with this person and his huge fan following as I could see. This attitude is very immature and below the dignity of a WIKI Admin.
He should admit his impulsive action and gracefully admit the article and take the help of Pradip in improving music related articles on the Wiki. A truce and positive action is the need of the hour and an end to this unnecesary discussion. Mr Pradip does not seem to be a terrorist or a thief. He seems to be a multi talented person with a huge fan following. So take his help in getting more info to the wiki than discouraging such eminent people.
Mad Max:--59.93.4.180 10:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep - quite notable... i have heard of him from the time he won the mucic contest in doordarshan. --Raghu 13:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Pradip Somasundaran is indeed a playback singer. The (auto)bio that appears in this article is almost accurate. I know this man very well and his brother was a colleague of mine. His "Meri Awaz Suno" feat was front-page news for almost all dailies in Kerala at that time.
Pradip Somasundaran is not very famous nowadays. As you can see in the article, he was on a roll till 1998; limelight has eluded him since then.
That said, let me admit that I am a bit surprised seeing him in Wikipedia. As I said, he is not that famous; yet he is not an ordinary keralite either. Let me say, for a brief period of time, he was a somewhat-well-known guy.
Overall a very funny situation..is he famous enough to get into wiki? Mind you, to an ordinary (non-netizen) keralite he will be more famous than wiki!
However, I think this article should be deleted. Reason? Take a look at it's history. A pathetic attempt for fame and publicity. It's a pity he couldn't do it in any other manner. --Sandeepmdas 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - More Info added:
Mods, Please note that I have added more information on the page Pradip Somasundaran. Please take a look before reaching a decision. All these are verifiable with the concerned authorities. I humbly request you to consider the fact that The internet doesnt contain any information, unless we, the users add them to it. As we cannot measure the talent and popularity by scale, google should not be the final word on adding new and valid information on to the wiki. I strongly believe that this article should not be deleted, just because internet doesnt have enough information available. Thanks! --Jyothis 20:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Weak delete pradip used to be famous in the mid 90's but now not that many people have heard of him. I would have voted Keep, but the reason I am voting delete is because the article was started by the user User:pradipsomasundaran. Its high odds that Pradip himself created this article. Hence I would say that this is a vanity article. + This comment is deleted as the user has been banned from editing any article and seems to be a sock of Ageo--RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Also the many unregistered users who have voted here suggests to me that someone is using sock puppets and voting over here. - But some of them have given some good points such as Jyothis, But overall I would say Pradip has barely sang a film song in the last five years , hence delete this article. - Also some other article created by pradip are en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malayalam_playback_singers. - I would like to rebutt Jyothis one point i.e. Talent doesn't get you a wiki article. Fame however does. Pradip is just nominally famous.--RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Note : RonStoppable was blocked five hours after he added this comment above. Tintin (talk) 09:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep He has won awards. Probably because he is notable. --HResearcher 02:07, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete - in these caes of doubt I go with the expertise. If an Indian wikipedian advises that he is not-notable that is good enough for me. In any case hee seems to have no international recognition or local major award. BlueValour 03:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment
With Due respect, I disagree to some points noted above.
1. user User:pradipsomasundaran is not Pradip himself. I had contacted him enquiring this earlir and he has confirmed this. I know that it is not a fair practice, and I have checked that out at the first place. As he is a teacher, I wouldnt have had to collect and add the informatiion in Pradip Somasundaran today. Whoever created the page used his name as his id.
2. Unregistered IPs does not denote Socks. Most of the people who comes by and participate in this discussion does not know that you need to sighn with a login. South India is not much wiki literate yet. I dont think a normal user knows to IP spoofing or chainings.
3. BlueValour, I dont think many indian wikipedians knows Taranath Rao too. (No offence intented). everyone will have their area of interests and knowledge base. India, especially South India is not much wiki literate yet. People hear about wikipedia, when they get out of the state or country. Wiki norms does not require you to win the international recogintion. Also he is definitely way famous than Prof. R. Bindu.
Comment: Even Prof. Bindu is not a Professor. She is a just a selection Grade lecturer(Professor post does not exist in colleges. only in universities as per UGC norms)and a petty local body politician Who the hell actually gave permission for such irrelevant articles. The admin's should resign for this!
Ron, I have added the list of songs he has sung. Please take a look. I accept that talent does not get you there. I suppose you misread my statement.
Thanks.--Jyothis 09:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. User's only edits are to Pradip related articles. Possible sock. alphaChimp laudare 14:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep - Indian wikipedians are not Gods and they are not the masters of wikipedia. Also any wikipedian who lives outside Kerala and has not been in Kerala for more than two years cannot claim to be an authority in this matter. Some contentions like "he was famous then" "he is not famous now' are very immature in the case of celebrities in music, acting, film direction etc. Oce a celebrity is always a celebrity. here there is no need for any concern as somasundaram is very active in giving live shows, T.V programs all across kerala. I even saw his program on Kairali channel yesterday and on doordarshan almost every day! His program Anjali on Amrita T.V is still continuing after 2 years and has won two state level awards. Hence the knowledge of our admins who are away in far places from kerala and those who do not watch television but go on typing on their keyboards though very sincere in this matter is mostly half baked and outdated. So they cannot be blamed.
- He is also a regular participant in Swaralaya Music & Dance festival at Palakkad and is performing there this october too! Fact can be cheched from their website Swaralaya. He is also to perform for a fund raising program by the Malayalam Film fraternity in Cochin. So who says that he is not active in the first place? Such reckless opinions are only personal opinions and not the truth. If he were not famous now he would not be invited again and again for programs all over Kerala. SO this amounts to deliberate attemopt to defame the singer and is serious matter. The fact is that any famous artist has highs and lows in his career. Right from Michael Jackson to Whitney Houston and the great Rafi in India had bad phases. Jackson and houston have had long times when they have not had any new releases. So will our wiki admin's delete their pages? This is rubbish and immature thinking. If it were such we would have to remove articles of all such people and dead people since their current contributions are nil! Once a person attains celebrity status it is for his whole life. He or she stays in the heart of millions of fans for a particular reason which is for keeps. They may sway between active and passive phases of their career. Anyway this guy is only around 40! He also seems to have up's and downs. But seems quite stable with so many albums awards and achievements to credit. What the hell more are you looking at here? The article also says that he sang for "Art of Living International" which is indeed prestigious if true. Some articles mentioned above like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit_sana are stupid in that they do not have anything on the person concerned. He has no album to credit and also their is no award list or any material that would be termed suitable for his qualification for a wiki article. "Many believe that Amit Sana is a superior singer to Abhijeet and that he only won due to female support but Amit remains great friends with Abhijeet they made a special appearance in season 2 of Indian Idol where he and Abhijeet along with Aditi Paul performed a song together" These are the wordings used in this article! The admin's who are keeping their eyes shut to such rubbish hearsay should hang their heads in shame! So who put it there and why there is no hue and cry about this one??? He has not even won an award. He is just a runner up! There are so many singers in Kerala like Manjari, gayatri who have only 100 and 6 hits in google! So does that mean that they are not celebrities or playback singers ? They are State Government award winners. It is foolish to says that a playback singer has to have 1000 google hits. Who made this rule? Gayatri and manjari are the leading female singers in Malayalam. If an some wiki admin who lives abroad did not hear about them does it mean that they do not exist?
- Shame on such Admins. They should be reported to the arbitration committe for such immature comments and shouls not be allowed to function as Admins.
- As for me somasundaran (even if he started the article which i doubt as the first version was like some of his fans one trying to have some fun) satisfies all requirements of having an article here in wiki WP:BIO Notability WP:MUSIC Both the above norms more than satisfied in his case.
Musicians and ensembles There are a lot of bands, singers and other musicians and musical ensembles with articles in the Wikipedia (see Category:Musicians).
- A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
- Has had a charted hit on any national music chart, in at least one large or medium-sized country.[1]
Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one large or medium-sized country.
- Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country,[1] reported in notable and verifiable sources.
- Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
- Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
- Has won a major music award.
- Has won or placed in a major music competition.
- Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.(He is a graded Radio and T.V artist)
He satisfies all the above requirements SO IS HIGHLY NOTABLE. So why have you put this article for deletion in the first place? So close this matter now. All other personal likes and dislikes like whether he was popular before, is popular now or will be in future, is nonsense as THERE ARE CLEAR GUIDELINES TO GUIDE US ON THIS. So all personal references like "I have not heard this guy", "he should have won all major competetions in India", etc. do not hold any ground at all.
- WHETHER HE IS POPULAR NOW OR NOT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE AS SOME PERSONS ARE DELIBERATELY TRYING TO SHIFT ATTENTION. THE ONLY ISSUE IS WHETHER HE SATISFIES ANY OF THE CRITERION AS PER WIKI NORMS.All other personal comments of what someone thinks on his poularity are to be ignored. There is no meter for poularity and this cannot be acertained mere google searches and by people who are away and are not living in kerala. Let this be decided by we who live here!
Hope the more mature and experienced Admins/mods like Seidenstud & Alphachimp show maturity and take this off from the deletion page without delay--Gluewhale 08:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment. I'm really alarmed by the level of sockpuppetry on this page. If at all possible, I'd like to solicit the opinions of more Wikipedians by extending this debate for another day or so. alphaChimp laudare 14:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- So far the regular editors who have commented on this are yourself, Bharatveer, Jyothiskumart (not Jyothis), Rajith Mohan, myself, Deepujoseph (thunderboltz), Ageo20, Anandpiyer, Umesh (who is active in ml.wiki), Raghu.kuttan, Sandeepmdas, Bluevalor and HRsearcher. Seidenstud has commented but I can't see him give his opinion. I don't know where Bluevalor and HResearcher are from but of the rest, all except you are from Kerala (and hence are supposed to know what this is all about).
- Alphachimp, Ageo20, HResearcher have voted for a delete, myself and Deepu confess our ignorance but go for a weak keep, the rest are for retaining the article. So the sock/meatpuppets needn't have taken all the trouble. Tintin (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi All, Please read the given below sentence is from NDTV message borad. First read it.
Re: Best Indian Music Director - Sent By: reemakaran (jaipur,india) i am not agree with ur choice abt ilaya coz i never heard abt ilaya raja so how can u say that ilaya raja is best indian music director [ http://www.ndtv.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=333&tablename=Music&id=565946 ]
I think now some wikipedia users behave like this sender. Coz i never heard abt Pradip so how can u say? Don’t be behaving like this! A real wiki pedia user who interested in music should know about all singers. He is really a good singer. He is really multitalented like a Teacher in Electronics dept and a singer.
we can never compare him with Yesudas or MG Sreekumar. And he is not a notable Play back singer. But he is a notable singer. And he deserved for this article.
I never say to delete this article.
But need modification. I think there is no need of maximize the article with his all details. And maximum try to minimize the article with necessary details.
Rgds Jothishkumart 14:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't like to address a perticular user. I felt some users behaving like that. Don't confuse with user jyothis and jothishkumart. I am user jothishkumart .Jothishkumart 06:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment
TinTin,Alpha Chimp,Mods, I am a malayalam wikibooks Contributor. I agree that I dont do things here. You can see my work here Sorry that I did not mention it earlier. Thanks. --Jyothis 15:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment Alpha Chimp. This is not an article about a Mozart or a Beethoven, only about a singer who now as seen from the info and various comments is notable through his awards and T.v programs. So even if there are socks they have been very informative and have countered vague arguments very well. So I think they can be excused.I think we should give the credit to Jyothis who has compiled the facts. Tintin I think this writeup is not too big. Have see many huge articles like here. Eric Clapton, and here Jayachandran(which is more hearsay,over descriptive and not neutral. It also smacks of hero worship). Also since the credibility of this person was in question, Jyothis did the right thing by making the article more comprehensive, and wiki friendly.He has laid out only the facts and information about this singer who has been mis-understood by many wikipedians who are not in Kerala.After all this is our job, bringing out the truth and compelling the people who want such articles to be published to be more accurate. So now Admins please go after the Amit Sanas, Prof. Bindu's and such people. let the people who started this article heave a sigh of relief and improve upon it. Enough time has been spent already debating on this. Admin's take a decision now without going for the extra day.--Gluewhale 15:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I find that there are too many socks here, who support/delete this article. Some of the registered users like gluewhale, jyothis, pradipsomasundaran have just created articles for pradip somasundaran in the english encyclopaedia.--Ageo020 00:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: Ageo, I Think the first and foremost thing that needs to be done is take you off from wiki list.
YOU HAVE FAKED TO BE AN ADMIN WHEN YOU ARE NOT. YOUR EXISTENCE IN WIKI IS ONLY FROM MARCH 2006.
- This was found on ageo's talk page which confirms this.
- Quote
Hi! I noticed on your user page that you identify yourself as an admin. Since you aren't an admin, I strongly suggest you remove you the box. JoshuaZ 19:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, please explain why you made the claim. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
About my page in which i made an admin claim, I'm sorry. I just copied that section from another user's page. I line checked the code but i think i may have overseen this. Really sorry if this caused any trouble. Thanks User:Ageo020 --Ageo020 00:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Its ok. Don't worry about it. JoshuaZ 01:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Unquote
You do not have any basic knowledge of wiki! You have made all silly references like 1) 1000 hits in google to be a playback singer 2) Close up Antakshari being a music talent show.
From your Quote "" *Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil
This was your silly comment in the begening where you wanted this person to win all singing competetions in India (Are you his mentor?)
You said you have not heard him. What importance does this have here on this discussion. You might not have heard about many persons. That shows your ignorance and arrogance not knowledge.You do not have any proven competance in music to prove professional competence of this person. This has been already done by the people who gave him so many awards and made him sing in so many films, albums, T.V shows and live shows in India and abroad. This is not your job. Your job was to see whether the article satisfies wiki norms and you had no business to poke into competance and poularity polls. YOU DID NOT DO YOUR JOB IMPARTIALLY AND WITH NEUTRALITY. Thousands of malayalees including admins here know him and have heard him. Now you want to shut their voices by this last ditch futile attempt? There is also a complaint that you sent anonymous hate mails to the singer's blog and some nasty campaigns making this a personal war. We have proof that you sent personal invitation to other wikipedians from your page to help you in this hate campaign which is below the dignity of any wikipedian. You do not have any right to do so. Your actions speak for your sick mind!
Ageo's actions from his talk page and from the page of user pradipsomasundaran
Quote
This is a message to all Category:Kerala Wikipedians
I want your opinion on this particular person Pradip Somasundaran. He claims to be a famous singer in Kerala. Now being a Malayalee, I have not heard of this person before, so I wonder whether or not you have heard of him before and set this issue straight. If so, then please let your opinion be counted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pradip Somasundaran. Please note that by voicing your opinion as a Malayalee/Keralite will add more weight to your words.
Many Thanks --Ageo020 21:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey PS Yes, you are right. I have not lived in Kerala in the past 2 years. That doesn't mean I am not familiar with it. Now Amrita TV is not a TV channel watched by the masses. They watch Surya, Asianet or Kairali. If you have been seen on this channel, it means to me in my biased opinion that you are not too famous to have an article in wikipedia. Also remember that there are many singers who have cut their own records. That doesn't mean they have to have an article too.
Plus I am a frequent listener to malayalam film songs and I have certainly not heard of you. Do not waste your time ranting about whether the article should be deleted or not. Instead focus your energy on singing and becoming famous and then having someone else to have an article written about you. This letter may make you more angry, but I am sorry.
Ave --Ageo020 03:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Unquote
I found these messages on your page and on the person impersonating as user pradipsomasundaran. These clearly show your immature dirty mind and illegal actions. This also proves that all your comments are biased as you yourselves have admitted to this here! You have used abusive language with intent to disgrace defame and provocating a person. If the real Pradip Somasundaran finds this out you will cut a very sorry figure for yourselves! This is enough to file a case against you in the arbitration section man!
Admins: Remove this person soon. He is a disgrace to wiki. He is just an editor(counter vandalism unit member?) and claimed to be an Admin with an Admin box on his page which was removed when some one reported this. He also is a novice who started editing in March 2006 and yest behaves as if he is the owner of wiki.
The outcome of this this discussion will be decided on merit not your ego! After this is over your actions will be reported to the arbitration committe. Except you all the other people who have commented, including admins have behaved sensibly with reason and dignity.
All your silly arguments have been put to rest by many many of the people who commented here. Now that you do not have anything to say, rather than replying to the observations you become a mouth for some other admin and be a cry baby and say that "hey, all the supporters are fake!" You have not replied to the Amit Sana issue so far. Why are you showing double standards?" When you started spreading lies did you expect others to be quiet? Now you will tell that even the other admins are socks. This is a futile futile attempt again. Where were you all this time?
Let's stop trying to disprove the already proven celebrity status of one of the most talented young singers of kerala who still has a long way to go. No other singer in kerala sings so well in so many languages and so many styles! He does not have many film songs but he is not retired and is only around 40. He is also very active as a singer with many programs. There is nothing we or he can gain or loose in this unnessary debate. Let's show maturity. Enough material proof has been provided by many for his credibility. He satisfies more than one criterion for an article here.
Have you all editors and mods from kerala seen how many singers from malayalam have a decent page here? And we call ourselves malayalees??? Only K.J Yesudas has a terific page here in wiki standards. P. Jayachandran also is o.k. But none of the singers gave a good article here! Is it because they all do not have 1000 google hits? Time to stop this silly argument. All the playback singers including kamukara, udayabhanu, unnimenon, venugopal, gayatri, jyotsna, rimi tomi, vidhu pratap, manjari who are loved and adored by lakhs of malayalees do not have a page here! Let pradip's page be an eye-opener to all those who want to take up this issue and make the section of malayalam playback singers strong. Why is it so that malayalees are the biggest "paras" to malayalees?(sorry this usage will be understood by malayalees only. Not in wiki dictionary) Let's all forget personal ego's and get to improving information on all the great playback singers in Malayalam instead of degrading them. I am here to give my sincere contributions to wiki not to degrade any person.--Gluewhale 01:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Well I have started my contributions with a page on Gayatri Asokan--Gluewhale 07:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment This man is not an ordinary guy. He has participated in two International Youth exchange programs too of the highest levels! Well I have added the links below for verifiability.--Gluewhale 18:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Ageo, All I did was to collect all the info I could find on him and update the page so that the people here who discuss can see before they comment and conclude. Please point out the exact reasons (As the people who suggested the keep) why we should delete this article. I'm standing on the facts that I know for sure. Those information can be verified thru the corresopnding agencies in Kerala and India. Looks like you have taken things personally. Please take a look at this Picture. This is a bunch of albums/movies we could find that Mr. Pradip Somasundaram has worked on. you can see that some albums even has his photo on it. Please call up your frineds in Kerala (as you claim to be from kerala, I suppose you have people there too) and verify.
Thanks. --Jyothis 01:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Update
More photos and proofs. If at all we have any 'Real' Mods around, Please see this.
International Recognitions & Citations
To know more on this program click here > Ship for World Youth program
Above 3 links were added by: --Gluewhale 17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Meri Awaz Suno
Awards
In the news
Misc
- His Albums/Films
- After performing for RMS Richard M Stallman at Cochin.
- News about a National Level Dance & Music festival where Pradip is performing in October-2006
Above 3 additional Links added by --Gluewhale 10:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
If Alpha Chimp or other admins still feel that I am a sock, I can give my direct contact information. I work in a facility that has stringent security restrictions and background checks including FBI fingerprint verification. I'd be more than happy to prove my identity, if at all I have to.
It is quite sad to see such remarks, as you are tracking the IPs. Also, as I have stated above, I contribute to Malayalam Wikibooks.
--Jyothis 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Pradip is a well known singer of kerala.He has done many albums in malayalam.And one of the most commenting thing about him is i think no malayalee sings hindi songs as good as him. So there is no need for a deletion. [User:Tharanath R] 04:30, 5 August 2006
Request to the new editors (especially Jyothis and Gluewhale) who added their comments here : Since you all seem very passionate about articles related to Kerala, I wonder whether you guys would like to hang around a little longer in Wikipedia, instead of disappearing the moment this AfD is over. There are not many articles about Kerala and even those which are, are mostly not in a good shape. We could do with a bit of help in improving the articles. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the Kerala noticeboard. (PS : Just noticed the new article that Gluewhale created yesterday. Thanks) Tintin (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment
I end my defense of this article by presenting a comprehensive list of verifiable documents above along with what has been presented by jyothis from various sites which PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that he is a very very notable guy. Not only a great singer of Kerala but a multifaceted talent who has spread his knowledge & talent not only in Indian but also abroad. The Govt. of India has sent him two times abroad to Japan for his talents (we lesser mortals do not even have heard of such programs!). Other than the "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" he has been honoured both in India and abroad two times, one by by the JCI with TOYI and other the Dubai Kairali Kalakendram for his contribution to music. He has won two awards in Kerala too for contribution to music. He also won an International talent competetion. He has done shows abroad and is still actively doing music shows, singing in films, singing in albums, singing in T.v programs, propagating linux, technology in India and abroad. Now what more do you want from this person?
- Quote: ( From the blog comments page of pradip)
I chanced upon your blog from wikipedia, i have always been a big fan of yours for many many years, i have been following ur singing in "Anjali" in Amrita channel and the hindi songs you render are absolutely brilliant.
Hope to visit your blog more often.
Posted by Praveen to Pradip Ki Awaz Suno at 8/05/2006 11:43:01 PM '
- Unquote:
This is just one of the hundreds of comments that I found on his blog today! If a person can find his blog from this article then it should be good enough! The hundreds of comments there prove his popularity as a singer. Kerala is a small state and people of his breed are rare.So he is one of our heroes! Now you decide whether to keep your ego's in tact or to keep this article! We cannot undo a person's contributions by just shouting foul 100 times. Thank you...I retire...from this defence for dignity and justice and hope justice and sanity prevails over false ego's!
"You will not see light if you shut yourselves out in your room. When you come out in the open you will see light! Knowledge is light. Ignorance is darkness"
I do not have anything more to say. --Gluewhale 18:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- A blog having hundreds of comments does not make it important. alphaChimp laudare 19:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Of the "keep" "votes," most were from very new users or anon users. Ian Manka Talk to me! 05:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] David Geoffrey Smith
Generally non-notable geographer per WP:BIO. Major claims to fame in article are being "author of the Pennsylvania Geospatial Data Sharing Standard for Geodetic Monumentation" and "director of Geospatial Information Technology" for a non-notable company. —C.Fred (talk) 15:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. Until there is some concrete thing he has done that is incredible, earth-shattering, and magnificent, he fails WP:BIO. alphaChimp laudare 16:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete as not meeting WP:BIO; in fact, it's a borderline speedy (A7). --MCB 21:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- DeleteIt appears he's a good citizen. It also appears he hasn't done anything to merit a wiki bio. Bayou Banjo 23:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)Wow. It looks like a bunch of folks got on wiki today just to find this article. 3 new users found it their first day on wiki and voted to keep it! I must have been wrong about this article all along. Bayou Banjo 04:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep as per the guideline 4 (The person has published a significant or well-known academic work). [36]] and guideline 3 [37] [38]Doctor Bruno 23:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. Guidelines cited above are for academics (WP:PROF), which are still proposals. Because of their status as guidelines, the above citations do not alter my nomination. —C.Fred (talk) 00:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
-
- Comment. I have asked few question in your talk page for which there is no answer. It is 1000 times easier to delete an article, but as a Global Encyclopedia, our aim should not be in deleting articles (except Advertisement and Hatred articles) but in making articles. Doctor Bruno 05:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- Keep - this individual is well known in geospatial technology, having developed agencywide architecture for federal agencies and having held leadership positions in the premier engineering and surveying organizations nationally and statewide. The only potential concern is the bio is short and potentially outdated. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.241.81.239 (talk • contribs) .
- Comment. None of the individuals currently recommending deletion appear to have any relevant background, knowledge or expertise in this individual's area of expertise (geospatial technology). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.241.81.239 (talk • contribs) .
- Comment. It should not take knowlege in field to be able to recognize the article subject's expertise. Ultimately, the article needs to stand on its own (aided by the sources it cites). If the article can't explain that the subject is notable, then, for Wikipedia purposes, the subject isn't notable. —C.Fred (talk) 02:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment Cornell, Ketterle and Wieman won the 2001 Nobel Prize in Physics for "the achievement of Bose-Einstein condensation in dilute gases of alkali atoms, and for early fundamental studies of the properties of the condensates". I have no idea what that means, nor do I know who Cornell, Ketterle and Wieman are, apart from this contribution to science. My mere personal opinion and lack of knowledge on this subject does not qualify me to suggest that they or their work is not notable. This should be relegated to domain experts for informed comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tenzing347 (talk • contribs) .
- Comment If his work is so well known and important then several other sources should cite it as a reference. A
- Comment. It should not take knowlege in field to be able to recognize the article subject's expertise. Ultimately, the article needs to stand on its own (aided by the sources it cites). If the article can't explain that the subject is notable, then, for Wikipedia purposes, the subject isn't notable. —C.Fred (talk) 02:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
literature search reveals that this does not seem to be the case. Bayou Banjo 16:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep - He holds or has held statewide office, with an appointment by Pennsylvania Governor Edward Rendell, per WP:BIO. Non-compliance with WP:PROF does not merit deletion, as it's still pending. If anything, the article needs some cleanup. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tenzing347 (talk • contribs) .
- Comment - State governors make THOUSANDS of appointments a year. That by itself does not merit a bio. If this person is so important, why does a Google search yeild so little? I can google myself and get a lot more hits, and I'm not planning to start an article on myself, that's for sure. Bayou Banjo 16:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - Remember that there is world out side Internet. As far as publications and media in languages that do not use the Roman Script is concerned, they may yield no result in Google. Hence just because some one does not figure prominently on Google (especially those from non English SPeaking Countries) it does not mean that he is not notableDoctor Bruno 06:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - I'm not sure what Bayou Banjo is searching on Google; a search on David Smith yields 227M matches, David G. Smith yields 82.5M matches, David Geoffrey Smith yields 11.9M matches, and I don't even want to go into the other permutations of Dave Smith, et cetera. It's starting to look like Bayou Banjo may have some personal beef with this individual, as opposed to any merit to his argument. This is not the appropriate forum for that kind of personal vendetta and begins to go into the realm of inappropriate article vandalism/controversy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tenzing347 (talk • contribs) .
- Comment - Your outrageous accusations have no basis, you have absolutely no basis to accuse me of vandetta. Please familiarize yourself with WP:PA. You obviously do not know how to properly perform a Google search. Try putting your search term in quotes. You will not get many hits. Quit changing the subject, this article is cluttering up wiki. I do not know this person, and I've never heard of him until now. In searching for additional info, it quickly became clear that there wasn't much to find. That is precisley why the article needs to go. Bayou Banjo 23:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment. How many of those 11.9M matches are actually for this individual? If they all are, as you claim, then it's reasonable that 1% of the matches would be from major news entities or other verifiable sources (i.e. not blogs, personal pages, etc.). That would still be 119,000 sources to quote, and there are no references to major news/media entities in the article. Having a common name does not equate to notability. —C.Fred (talk) 12:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. I believe this person, has distinguished himself, based on several items extracted from the information posted to the bio. I would submit as examples:
- This person has demonstrated a leadership role in IT at Lockheed Martin. Lockheed Martin is one of the largest IT and advanced technology contractors in the world.
- This person has demonstrated a leadership role in a $700M IT contract. That represents one of the largest federal IT acquisitions of the last 10 years.
- This person has demonstrated a leadership role at a Federal agency, in developing its enterprise architecture. Specifically, this person has demonstrated leadership at the US Environmental Protection Agency. Mapping and environment are joined at the hip - for example, the commercial market segment leader in geospatial technology is named, not by accident, "Environmental Systems Research Institute". Doing this kind of work for the national environmental agency of one of the most powerful and technologically advanced nations on earth places him near the pinnacle of that profession.
- This person appears to have been actively involved in the development of Geographic Information Systems (GIS) for over 20 years. Modern computer-based GIS in its' current incarnation hasn't been around for much more than 20 years itself, placing this individual among its veterans and pioneers.
- This person has demonstrated leadership at a statewide level, with development of statewide interagency technical standards, as well as holding statewide quasi-judicial office.
- This person has several published works.
- This person is a member of NCEES. NCEES is the national organization which sets national policy for the engineering and surveying community, and which defines the yardstick for professional licensure. Only a fraction of one percent of engineers and surveyors are ever eligible to be members of NCEES.
- This person has excelled and demonstrated leadership in not just one field, but in multiple fields at a statewide and national level. --DawnTreader 03:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
-
- Comment It seems an extrordinary coincindence that the last 3 Keep votes come from users with no history of contributing to Wikipedia until today, whereas all but one of the established users is voting Delete. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just trying to estimate the odds, and like, wow. 1.2M pages on the english Wiki, and 3 newbies just happen to gravitate to this obscure one and edit in the same day. Amazing. Bayou Banjo 04:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete - too many words; too few hard facts. Not-notable for me. BlueValour 03:41, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Delete per WP:BIO. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. There's plenty more articles, far more skimpy, about far-less notable people, things and events in Wiki than this one... Besides, it does meet WP:BIO, IMHO. Get a grip, folks. --66.126.216.118 01:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
for teh second nomination, please see: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Groin attack second nomination)
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The result was delete Stormie 03:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Leo Gelvan
Page's creator asserts notability on the grounds that he "instituted the Norman H. Gelvan award, which has been an annual event in the last 25 years, for the Jewish community in North Miami-Aventura." I don't believe that qualifies as notable. BoojiBoy 18:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete 6 google hits. No assertion of notability. MarkBuckles 19:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment The author asserts notability on the talk page. I disagree with his assertions but he does mention it. BoojiBoy 01:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment. Noted. Doesn't seem lie compelling evidence of notability to me though. MarkBuckles 01:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Delete per nom. Fails WP:BIO for lacking multiple non-trivial third-party articles to establish notability. The Google hits I get are all directory listings. Tychocat 09:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, WP:BIO and WP:NOTE. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete all Stormie 03:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Nuklear Man
This nomination concerns eight articles, Nuklear Man, Atomik Lad, Iron Scotsman, Tetsu Samurai, Doctor Veronica Menace, Rachel_(Nuklear_Age), Superion (Nuklear Age), and Nihel, all described as "Main Characters" in a self-published novel, Nuklear Age. Nuklear Age itself recently survived an AfD, at which there seemed to be emerging consensus that these character pages should be removed as non-notable, especially since the Nuklear Age article already includes relatively detailed character bios. Opposition to the character pages has also been expressed on the Nuklear Age talk page. I should also note that two of these have been tagged for cleanup, one since April, the other since June, with little effect.
I'm listing the articles of those described as "Main Characters" and "Secondary Characters" separately. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 18:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete all as per nom. I'm surprised that Nuklear Age survived AfD, and should probably be reassesed at some point. --MCB 21:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per Nom. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete All as insufficiently notable. See WP:FICT. --Satori Son 00:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was Keep and cleanup, removing OR and leaving sources. If that proves impossible, it should be relisted for deletion.. – Avi 22:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jesus as myth
This entire page smacks of original (albeit well-referenced) research. Yes, there are plenty of citations, often lacking in the most flagrant OR violators, but the article is rife with assertions like "If Christianity had originally evolved as a localised mystery religion, then not only should there be parallels between the scriptural narratives of Christianity and myths from the mystery religions, but there should also be parallels with more outwardly things such as religious rituals, and imagery." and "Aside from potential parallels with Gnosticism, which can be investigated more directly, other significant features of Pythagoreanism might have entered into early Christianity, and their presence would add support to a position advocating that significant parts of early Christianity, or all of it, derived from mystery religion." Again, it's an interesting read, and is even persuasive in its thesis, but that's the problem. It's an essay, not an encyclopedia article, and is irrevocably so. Delete as original research. JDoorjam Talk 19:35, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Delete. Well-writen OR, but OR nonetheless. Fan-1967 19:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Weak Keep. It would be a shame to delete such a well written, carefully documented/sourced, and lengthy article that so many wikipedians have collaborated on for over a year. If there's any way to salvage this article and remove the WP:OR problems, please do so rather than just delete. Allisonmontgomery69 23:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: From the third paragraph, "The question of whether Jesus derives to some extent from myth (including 100% from it) requires academic analysis of the available evidence from times near-contemporary with the dates for Jesus' life, and on analysis of how reliable such evidence is, and what their biases are." The article then goes on to perform such an academic analysis. Again, yeah, it's well-written, but it's pure OR. I don't know how salvageable it is, given that "academic analysis" is in this article's DNA. JDoorjam Talk 23:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete, with regret. Either OR is allowed, or it isn't ClemMcGann 00:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:OR. And he definetly exists. -Royalguard11Talk 01:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. To apply WP:OR here is inappropriate, and "It's an essay, not an encyclopedia article" is a false dichotomy. To discuss this (or any) subject matter without any analysis or criticism would be near impossible, and the result unreadable. Buster79 03:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. If Wikipedia can have an article on Holocaust denial, it can certainly have an article on the historical authenticity of a potentially mythological religious figure. The article is a description of a pre-existing and credible theory, and is in no way WP:OR. It is wrong to use the charge of WP:OR here in order to get rid of information that some people don't like. Big Brother 1984 08:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep. It needs a POV tag for the meantime, but sources on the topic are certainly available in abundance (I can think of the Testimonium Flavium off the top of my head). There is no reason to delete this article, because it is not irredeemably condemned to being original research. Whoever wrote it, I can guarantee, would not be the first person to have written about the possibility that the Jesus figure is a myth. If just needs a bit of fixing, that's all. Byrgenwulf 08:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment It seems that many of the unverified assumptions and "original research" in this article are actually from people opposing the subject. For example, "there is no formally peer-reviewed work advocating this extreme limit of the Jesus-Myth theory". That is absolute nonsense, there has been much scholarly work on the subject: for example, Friedrich Nietzsche wrote about the subject extensively. Simply because the subject of an article is uncomfortable to some people does not mean it should be deleted. The entire concept of a "Jesus-Myth" is just not one person's original research. The article should, perhaps, be renamed, though. Byrgenwulf 08:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Another Comment After reading this article carefully, it should be clear that this is not original research at all! It is, on the contrary, one of the more scholarly and well-written articles on Wikipedia. Statements like those offered in the nomination do not contravene original research policies. Here is a relevant quote: "However, research that consists of collecting and organizing information from existing primary and/or secondary sources is, of course, strongly encouraged. All articles on Wikipedia should be based on information collected from published primary and secondary sources. This is not "original research"; it is "source-based research", and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia". I am beginning to wonder if this AfD is not the result of an ideological objection to the article, not the nature of the article itself. The idea that what is written there constitutes OR is preposterous. Byrgenwulf 08:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Yet another one This article has existed for over a year, and has had more than 500 edits by more than twenty editors, expressing many different points of view. Compare this version of the article to the current one. Look at the edit history. I cannot stress enough that this is not original research, and it is not even particularly slanted. There are absolutely no grounds for deletion here. Byrgenwulf 09:07, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. This article is of long standing (originally it was entitled "Jesus-Myth"). The subject is entirely legitimate and well established. Unfortunately it is a target for extremist ideologues on both sides of the debate. Paul B 13:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep The ideas propsed here are far from original research and often cited to particular people and quotes. Many of the documents referenced have their own wikipedia articles and full texts available. Please see talk page as some sources are there and not directly cited in the article, so perhaps a minor cleanup needed. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 13:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep POV needs to be enforced on this article, but the argument deserve to be kept as it is a legitimate doubt. Nova77 16:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Judging from google scholar search results, there seems to be a large body of published literature on this topic. Many of the items brought up by a google scholar search seem to have been published in scholarly journals. If there are problems with the current version of the Wikipedia article on this topic, then fix them, but do not delete the article. --JWSchmidt 18:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete It has citations, but it editorializes and theorizes, and does not cover facts (such as Josephus) without being immediately deleted. The article is too abrasive to e npov for both sides and it should be deleted, started anew, and made much shorter to limit those using wiki to editorialize.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikilagata (talk • contribs) .
- Strong keep First of all, this is not OR. Yes, it says that "academic analysis" is necessary, but then it summarizes the analysis which has been performed by others, who are identified in the text, in notes, or in the reference section. I agree that the sources for some sections need to be identified more prominently, but that's no reason to delete the article. Second, it doesn't matter if any of us think the "Jesus as myth" theory is questionable, bogus, or even offensive. It's an idea that has had quite a few supporters for over a century. It has influenced books from The Golden Bough to The Da Vinci Code. It is encyclopedic and noteworthy. Third, the article does have some POV problems and probably always will, because the subject matter stirs up strong feelings in some people. But that's a reason to work on improving it and covering all points of view as fairly as possible. Maestlin 20:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Merge with Historicity of Jesus - I do not see any bigger difference between the themes of the two articles, and Historicity of Jesus is definitely better, because it does not give us an answer to the Jesus puzzle in advance.--Ioannes Pragensis 20:34, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment They are related but not identical. A better solution would be to summarize the contents of Historicity of Jesus and inform readers that there is a main article on the subject. Some notes to editors wouldn't hurt either. Maestlin 17:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment And what is their substantial difference? I see mostly similarities and still do not believe that it is reasonable to split the single theme into two articles. Moreover I feel that "Something as something else" is a bad title of an encyclopedic article.--Ioannes Pragensis 21:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment As I understand it, Historicity of Jesus is about the question of whether Jesus existed, and what evidence is available to answer the question. Jesus as myth is about using the tools of mythologists to analyze accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus, which may or may not lead to the conclusion that Jesus never existed. Such analyses are often carried out by people who want to show that Jesus is totally fictional, but some have reached the conclusion that he was a real person, or possibly real person, whose life was mythicized. I acknowledge that the last viewpoint is not well reflected in the article as it currently exists, but that's a POV problem. The article title has been changed a few times recently; the current incarnation is not great, I agree. Do you have a recommended name? Maestlin 21:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment The are several similar articles on Wikipedia concerning the life of Jesus.
- New Testament view on Jesus' life - This article presents a description of Jesus' life, as based on the four gospels (Bible as only source of information).
- Historical Jesus - A reconstruction of Jesus' life using all available information. It assumes that the gospels are mostly correct, but it points out textual inconstancies and attempts to place some information in historical context.
- Historicity of Jesus - An examination of all available texts which mention Jesus (and text from that period which do not mention Jesus)
- Jesus Myth - A theory which states that Jesus is most likely a mythical character since all of the elements of Jesus' story can be found in prior myths. This article also briefly mentions some information from the previous article to support this claim.
- The difference between the last two articles is that the Historicity of Jesus focuses on ancient texts, while the Jesus Myth focuses on ancient myths. The is certainly some crossover between these two articles, but I think is useful to allow them to exist separately, since they are not exactly the same thing. Big Brother 1984 11:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Article is not entirely written from a neutral point of view and suffers from multiple undue weight issues. For example, much of the "Parallels with non-Christian myths from the first century" subsection gives undue weight to material rejected by serious Egyptologists. For another example, the article as a whole does not adequately explain why the theory has been generally rejected by the academic community, thus giving the article as a whole a NPOV failure. However, I do not believe the article is inherently a violation of the NPOV policy, so am not now prepared to suggest deletion. Keep and clean-up is thus my recommendation. GRBerry 21:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- KEEP! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.214.109.178 (talk • contribs) .
- Strong keep This is not OR but rather an extensive overlook of literature and theory that discusses this idea. --WhitneyGH 20:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong keep —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.38.224.173 (talk • contribs) .
- Very Strong, Keep Excellent article, completely consistent with a good encyclopedia. Just because it is a controversial topic does not mean that information like this is not important, quite the contrary. Someone took a great deal of time to write on this topic and did an admirable job. When this article is viewed from the perspective that right-wing religious extremism of all faiths is severly impacting the earth today, it is essential to have "fair and balanced" information on all aspects of religion, religious practices, and religious figures. --Tim Bach 03:52, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete or seriosly overhaul. This is no encyclopedia article but an essay arguing a point (probably very persuasive to those unacquainted with historiography). If, as some here have argued, this bad quality is only a recent phenomenon, I'd ask these editors to roll-back that process and restore the former balance. Str1977 (smile back) 14:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep and Improve Good canidate for a collaboration. --Banana04131 17:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep-there are those who do doubt his existence, afterall, christianity is just another personality cult like mohammadism.--Tomtom9041 21:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- KEEP!!! Just because this is not a commonly known belief, doesn't mean that it isn't well researched, and it is actually very likely true. It would be a shame to delete this, especially considering some of the pages that are not being considered for deletion from Wikipedia. Shameful.
- The tone of the article has a clear 'agenda'. The agenda is to discount the historicity of Jesus. As such it should be re-written and merged with Historicity_of_jesus. The additional misuse of the title of this article amounts to a type of vandalism when cited in other Wikipedia articles dealing with (for example) Christianity (See also, Jesus as Myth], Christ (See also, Jesus as Myth] and other similar materials. The article is not balanced, but is rather an essay that attempts to debunk christianity. Is the information important? Yes. However, the title is inflamatory and biased as is the overall tone of the article. Would we permit articles entitled "General Relativity as Myth", History as Myth", Israel as Myth, Moses as Myth, Exodus as Archaeological Myth? I don't think so. This article, as titled, sets a dangerous precedent. John Charles Webb 10:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment The reason to include "myth" in the title is to differentiate it from the main article on Jesus, since that article seems to take the POV that Jesus was a real person despite evidence to the contrary. It is only inflammatory to people who believe this myth is represents a real historical figure. If billions of people believed that Zeus was a real person, Wikipedia would probably have a page titled Zeus Myth. But since everybody agrees that Zeus is a mythological character, there is no need to specify that an article with the POV that Zeus is myth takes that position. If there was a theory that Zeus was a real person, there would probably be an article titled "Zeus as an historical figure". But, since most people think that Jesus was a real person, an article which discusses the mythological origins of Jesus' myth necessarily has to specify this in the title. And the reason that this article is different from the Historicity_of_jesus article is that the Jesus Myth article focuses on the mythic origins of Jesus, whereas the other focus on ancient texts which mention Jesus (and the texts which should have mentioned Jesus but do not). The Jesus Myth theory certainly is a logical extension of the facts mentioned in the Historicity_of_jesus article, but the latter discusses history whereas the former discusses a particular theory concerning origins of the Jesus myth. Big Brother 1984 12:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Reply The use of the word "myth", in this instance, reveals a bias. A balanced presentation would provide enough information to allow the reader to determine whether or not Jesus is a myth. The title implies that the matter has already been decided. The Jesus Myth essay, standing alone, implies an endorsement of a particular point-of-view. If I drafted an article entitled "The Democracy Myth" then the title alone implies the tone of the content. The Wikipedia articles are designed to present un-biased verifiable information. If someone wishes to propose a new naming convention, they can do so on Wikipedia:Naming_conventions while also publicising the proposal at Requests for comment and the Wikipedia:Village Pump, as well as at any related pages. Once a strong consensus has formed, it can be adopted as a naming convention. (portions of text quoted from Wikipedia Naming Guidelines) Also, part of the definition of the word 'myth' is: A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology. A fictitious story, person, or thing. As such the article's title (as well as its content) is biased and in violation of Wikipedia Policy. John Charles Webb 18:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Reply to the Reply By that same logic, the page on Holocaust Denial should be renamed since it is implying that "Holocaust Deniers" are denying that a real event occurred, assumedly in order to push some sort of anti-Semitic agenda. The article is called "Holocaust Denial" not to indicate a POV, but rather to identify a fringe theory and separate it from mainstream views on the Holocaust. It is a page about the theory. And while it is true that the proponents of the theory certainly have a POV, the article need not necessarily have a POV. All it need do is describe the theory, and cite some of the claims which support it (with accompanying criticism of the theory where justified). This is what the Jesus Myth article does ... it describes the theory, and explains some of the key components that make up the theory. Any page which describes a theory has to explain that theory's POV. You couldn’t write an article an evolutionary theory without explaining that POV any more than you could write an article on Creationism without explaining that POV. Does that mean that neither of these articles should exist? Are we really prepared to remove all articles which describe a theory from Wikipedia simply because they explain a POV? And concerning the name, do you have a better suggestion? Would you prefer "Jesus Denial"? To me, that would be a POV. However, the title “Jesus Myth” seems to be a fitting name for what the article describes – the theory that just about every element of Jesus’ life story has roots in prior myths. Big Brother 1984 11:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- "'Reply to Replies'" The article does cover a scholarly postion, Jesus as a myth. There is nothing wrong the the title. However, the issue is with how often the article transcends and ignores scholarly viewpoints and just throws in random parallels and assertions. The article needs to be restarted from scratch.User:Wikilagata
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- Keep. The Jesus Myth position is a real, studied position on the historicity of Jesus. If the concensus is that changes need to be made to make the article a record of the Myth position than an argument for it, then the edits can be made without a serious reduction of content or value. But deletion is extreme nonsense. --Writer@Large 12:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep- This line of reasoning is as valid as any other. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.51.253.249 (talk • contribs) .
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- Note that in accordance with WP:NOR, if the article is a line of reasoning then it is a reason to delete, not to keep. GRBerry 01:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Is the page on Evolution a "line of reasoning"? What about the pages on Creationism, Christianity, General relativity, the Geocentric model, the Kennedy Assassination, or the Moon hoax? Wikipedia is chocked-full of pages which describe theories. I agree that in each case a NPOV should be taken in describing the theory, but I disagree with anybody who claims that these pages shouldn't exist. The person who nominated this article for deletion is the one expressing a POV. It is an attempt to eliminate information about a theory hat they don't agree with. And that shouldn't be allowed. I fully support the creation of a "Criticism of the Theory" section in the article (If anybody can think of a valid criticism, that is.) Big Brother 1984 11:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Note that in accordance with WP:NOR, if the article is a line of reasoning then it is a reason to delete, not to keep. GRBerry 01:16, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep and Continue to Develop - This position, while not accepted by a majority, has significant amounts of valid research to support it, and should be presented as an alternative theory for students of the history of religion. It should continue to be updated and edited to provide neutral and historically verifiable content when possible, and seriously considered speculation, when lacking. If we remove this article, Wikipedia will be the poorer for it. -ColoradoGirl —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.231.34.213 (talk • contribs) .
- Keep. I came to wikipedia today specifically to research the position of scholars who suggest possible links between Jesus and other figures such as Horus and Mithras, and thanks to this article I was able to find what I needed. If there are elements of the article that can be improved, that would be great, but by no means should it be deleted entirely. 210.89.149.89 10:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Very strong keep, minor edit and expand. I would add in discussion of comparisons with Hercules, Jesus as a hero, and are the gospels novels or plays, as well as discussion of fish and Christ. I am coming to the view that xianity has always understood christ to be mythical - fully god fully man - and historicism is a post enlightenment invention. I am sure there are many earlier commentators on this issue than listed here. If you check Catholic dogma I understand they state the idea of a historic jesus is a heresy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.12.187.227 (talk • contribs) .
- Delete. Original research. And note the number of anons or newly-registered voters. AnnH ♫ 22:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete I never really thought about this article as a candidate for deletion before, but I guess it must of gotten worse over time or something, the analysis of the nominator and the "brief analysis" below certainly seem convincing. Homestarmy 00:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep-it's a theory and people have the right to know about it. I have the right to knowledge!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.16.78.104 (talk • contribs)
[edit] a brief analysis
A Critical Analysis of the opening words of the "Jesus Myth" Wikipedia Article
- The article begins with (text) "The idea that" which presupposes the article's unstated premise. (Who's idea?) (Quote) "The idea that elements of beliefs about Jesus, and the Jesus narrative in the New Testament, are actually syncretisms from myths of his era is a theory usually associated with a skeptical position on the historicity of Jesus." (end quote). - The second sentence (quote) "When taken to its extreme - the idea of Jesus as myth rather than having any genuine historic existence - its advocates often refer to beliefs about Jesus as the Jesus-Myth." (end quote) The sentence is a fragment and has grammar issues. Is Wikipedia going to contain articles discussing 'ideas"? (again who's idea?). - The third sentence which is the beginning of the second paragraph elevates "idea" to "theory" (quote) "The theory is based on apparent similarities between early Christian accounts of Jesus and pre-existing mystery religions, and at the more extreme limit of the theory (that Jesus is 100% myth) is also based in part on the lack of extant evidence about his life outside the Gospels. The extreme limit of the theory has not found widespread acceptance among Bible scholars and historians." (end quote). (How did we get from "idea" to "theory" - is this unsupported original research?). - The third paragraph begins (quote) "The study of whether or not Jesus might be a purely mythological requires academic analysis of the available evidence from times near-contemporary with the dates for Jesus' life, and on analysis of how reliable such evidence is, and what their biases are." (end quote) (What "study"? and another grammar syntax nightmare). - Continuing (quote) "The purpose of this article is not (sic) provide said (sic) academic analysis, but rather to provide an account of research that has been performed into the subject thus far." (end quote). (A total account NO, a biased account, yes! Affirming sources Josephus are glanced over or summarily dismissed without analysis).
These errors in logic, grammar, sytax and bias are (opinion) pervasive. Clearly the article is not neutral, it has an 'agenda' and the agenda is the debunking of Christianity. It makes statements that are unsupported by reliable sources and forces 'conclusions' upon the reader that are unsupported by the logical (?) flow of the article or available materials. I also strongly suggest that the author(s) familarize themselves with the term Midrash. John Charles Webb 03:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Who's idea?
- As with most theories, it has been contributed to by many proponents. If you read the entire article, you will discover who some of those advocates are and what they contributed. It is not the job of the introduction to list them, just as (for example) the Astrology article introduction does not list any particular people who believe in it. On the talk page it has been suggested that since some sources such as John Mackinnon Robertson are absent, a list of notable proponents be created
- The third sentence elevates "idea" to "theory"
- A theory is a subset of an idea. If you read the first sentance more carefully, you will note that it is stated that this particular idea is a theory.
- What "study"
- Study as in "consider in detail and subject to analysis"
- Affirming sources Josephus are glanced over or summarily dismissed without analysis
- A more detailed analysis of the authenticity of Josephus can be found here: Josephus on Jesus. This article is linked to twice.
It seems to me that the bulk of your concerns would be more suited to the talk page of this article. In particular the following sections:
210.89.149.89 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Strong Keep as per above. -- Zorro CX 22:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was merge and redirect. Nandesuka 03:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Usenet cabal
not-notable neologism that's unsourced and wikipedia is not a dictionary. Fictious possibly, even. Yewtalonwyrd 19:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: this is not a neologism, and the idea is not ficticious[42], but the current article fails WP:V. It should be cleaned up. No vote. — Kaustuv Chaudhuri 21:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- I don't see any new information here that isn't at backbone cabal, so redirect. —C.Fred (talk) 22:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Redirect as per C.Fred. Lazybum 01:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Not a neologism, not fictitious. Redundant with backbone cabal. Merge or redirect. Ddama 05:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Merge or Redirect as per Ddama. --Cybercobra 02:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Merge per above. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete. Ian Manka Talk to me! 06:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] OpenWetWare
Non notable. Fails WP:WEB. So non-notable doesn't even have a single link or source. Vanity?? Yewtalonwyrd 19:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Writer is a member of the project's steering committee, lending itself to vanity concerns. 66 distinct Google hits, lending itself to notability concerns, and I'm not seeing multiple non-trivial third-party articles that might shore it up -- yet. Project only established in 2005, after all. Tychocat 11:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete per nom and Tychocat. Anomo 03:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete - yet another WP:WEB failer... Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was Delete. We cannot force the community to accept a merge, esp. of unsourced material. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:48, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Full Moon on the Quad
Non-notable tradition specific to one university campus with no verifiable sources. Suggested merging to the Stanford University article, which was summarily dismissed. Nominating for deletion accordingly. —C.Fred (talk) 20:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Weak keep if merged into the Standford article. Otherwise Delete; there isn't enough noteworthiness to merit an article. Cassavau 21:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment: Why does the article need to stay if the content is merged into Stanford? I suggested the merge, but the editors at Stanford deleted the suggestion. I'd be all for keeping this as a redirect if it's merged, but one way or another, there shouldn't be an article here. —C.Fred (talk) 23:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Delete - Unsourced it is OR and cannot be a stand-alone article. It is open to the Stanford editors to incorporate in their article if they wish. BlueValour 04:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Merge with Standford per Cassavau. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:43, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment - it seems that this has been tried. However, if the Stanford editors don't find it important enough to take we can't force them since they will just revert the merge. BlueValour 00:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- In fact, that is exactly what I tried before proposing AfD. I was going to merge and rename. When my {{mergefrom}} tag came down with no discussion, I took it as a sign that they didn't want the merge. Accordingly, I don't see a recommendation to merge as a reasonable outcome of this discussion, since it will be a de facto delete. —C.Fred (talk) 01:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was delete Stormie 03:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Elio Camacho
Delete Contested prod for a possible vanity article for what may be a nn artist. Original {{PROD}} by Pascal.Tesson (talk · contribs) stated, "Not notable per WP:BIO. The google search for "elio camacho" gives 233 hits, only 39 unique and most of them are the galleries listed below or pages concerning other "Elio Camachos" in the world. Also the sole edit of creator which may indicate vanity. --Bugwit Speak / Spoken 21:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete. Note that the prod tag was removed by a wikilawyer... I goofed when writing the original prod tag so that the reason was left out. Catchpole (talk · contribs) rightfully removed the empty prod and when I reinserted it he removed it again (despite a message I left on his talk page) arguing that once a prod is removed the whole thing has to go to AfD. Pascal.Tesson 04:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I posted this artist information because I purchased one of his paintings in Santa Barbara. When I returned home I searched google to fine more information and the only information were the links provided. I was hoping people would continue to add to this so I could continue to find more information regarding this artist. I am not sure if you know of Ovanes Berberian but he is concidered one of the top living impressionists today. According to the gallery in Santa Barbara, Elio is concidered one of his top students.
BTW...I wanted to post some images but I wasn't sure how legal that was. Any copyright issues?
- Delete per above (WP:BIO). Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Youth Ministry
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The result was keep Stormie 03:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Leilani Dowding
Non-notable model, CSD A7 could possibly apply here. TheM62Manchester 22:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Not notable (and no sources cited). Allisonmontgomery69 22:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Leilani is a notable model MLA 11:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment She was notable, but is now no longer notable. That was the reason for this AFD. --TheM62Manchester 18:51, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Why? What happened to her notability? MLA 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I understand this concept. I don't think WP distinguishes between is notable and was notable. (Also, I don't think I distinguish between is and was.) -- Kicking222 01:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep She was in the Miss Universe pageant, for christ's sake! She also passes my British notability test: If they're British, and I've somehow heard of them, they're notable. -- Kicking222 01:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Kicking222 - just because someone loses their notability, doesn't mean they don't deserve an article any more. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 00:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
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The result was Keep. When you take the massive amount of trolling out of this AfD, the argument for deletion does not compare at all to the argument for keep. I suppose, this could be considered boderline no consensus or keep among established editors. However, there is not a convincing argument for deletion made. Yanksox 04:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Meathead
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Non-notable internet person. Seems to be known in some NIN online circles, but no incoming google links to the website described as his "column." Has links to other languages as The NIN Hotline which does seem to be a notable enough site. Vote: Redirect to Michael Stivic — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 23:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - This article has changed considerably since original {{prod}} - original. Since then it was cleaned, and then more cruft started to fill back in. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 03:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment - No, I have nothing against him and truly don't know who he is. I don't remember how I stumbled on the page, probably doing my random wikignoming - finding a page with no category, etc, and looking it over. As noted above, the original page I saw was absolute junk with obvious non-encyclopedic entries (strike 1). You'll note the page still has no category today except via the AfD (strike 2). If you click "What links here" the only references were an incorrect one I just fixed and the NIN one that had been added the day before (maybe that was how I hit the article). The IP that added the link to the main NIN page was an obvious vandal as noted here and here (strike 3). Also, as noted above, no incoming Google links to his column (strike 4). And lastly, it is very strange that a single person's name would be referred to as something else in the other languages ("The NIN Hotline") (strike 5). So that's why I brought it to AfD. And when a AfD gets innundated with random IP votes with no signatures, I do not envy the admin who has to try to track it all down. Especially because I don't think from what I've read that Meathead == The NIN Hotline. So votes that say "NIN Hotline" should stay have nothing to do with this individual. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 12:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Since when is vandalisation criteria for deletion? Or lack of category? Or lack of internal links? Or an honest mistake in the language links? No, meathead is not the NIN Hotline: he is affiliated with that site, and writes a featured column which is hosted there. Please tell me why this invalidates his inclusion on this website. BotleySmith 20:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I didn't say they were reasons to delete - I said they were, in my opinion, criteria for this AfD and explaining to the people who accuse me of disliking somebody I have never heard of why I called for this vote. I also don't appreciate your link here. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 21:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Why, did I say something wrong? BotleySmith 22:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think it's far fetched to imply that, "Yeah, so this guy was the first one to vote "delete" on the public forum, and called Meathead a "non-notable internet person." Just so you know." wasn't something written in good faith. Apparently only one member took your bait. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 02:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Linking to your user page is an act of agression? Wow, there's a lot of rules here on wikipedia I wasn't aware of. I'm not going to defend swindley's comment because I didn't write it. By the way, you have yet to convince me that the article is non-notable. In fact, the edits of the last few days have pretty powerfully demonstrated that there is knowledge out there on Meathead that most people who had heard of him were unaware of — more needed to be added, not removed, to make the page encyclopedic. The article as it stands is NPOV and verifiable. Disambiguate the name if you must, but do not delete the page. The Perspective is known independently of the NIN Hotline, and creating a new article on it that would, at this juncture, solely host information on Meathead smacks of bureaucracy. Clearly, someone was motivated to create and maintain a Meathead page, but not a NIN Hotline page. There must be a good reason for that. BotleySmith 20:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- I don't think it's far fetched to imply that, "Yeah, so this guy was the first one to vote "delete" on the public forum, and called Meathead a "non-notable internet person." Just so you know." wasn't something written in good faith. Apparently only one member took your bait. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 02:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Why, did I say something wrong? BotleySmith 22:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment I didn't say they were reasons to delete - I said they were, in my opinion, criteria for this AfD and explaining to the people who accuse me of disliking somebody I have never heard of why I called for this vote. I also don't appreciate your link here. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 21:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Since when is vandalisation criteria for deletion? Or lack of category? Or lack of internal links? Or an honest mistake in the language links? No, meathead is not the NIN Hotline: he is affiliated with that site, and writes a featured column which is hosted there. Please tell me why this invalidates his inclusion on this website. BotleySmith 20:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- DELETE The Meathead Perspective is a TERRIBLE source of comic relief for NIN fans. Nine Inch Nails themselves have even acknowledged Meathead. He is not a legend of sorts. It would be no mistake to delete his Wiki Page.--SillyPutty 16:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: SillyPutty (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep The official Nine Inch Nails website has a link to Meathead's site. He's an internet celebrity and the article has more information now. Ixum 05:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Redirect per above. NawlinWiki 23:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Note: his site was down for a while while he was in "retirement", hence why links will have disappeared It's somewhere in this thread: http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?t=5387 The perspective only recently came back up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.207.124.226 (talk • contribs)
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- Note - the forum thread linked above is from 2004-2005. Not exactly a 'recent' development. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 23:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Fair enough, but the site was actually down for that long: it only went back up on 27 May 2006. BotleySmith 00:07, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, then redirect as above. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 23:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. I have it on authority from the owner/operator of The NIN Hotline, Leviathant, that Meathead's column receives almost as much traffic as any other portion of his site, including the very frequently-visited news page.
...that's from his post on the board where meathead is most often seen. I mean, come on: the link to The Meathead Perspective on NIN's official site certainly should inspire one to keep this article; what are casual NIN fans to think if they stumble upon such a page without knowing its origins? BotleySmith 00:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)It's worth noting that The Meathead Perspective gets almost as much traffic as the news portion of the page. It's not really titled "The NIN Hotline: Home of Meathead" but it practically should be. [...] On some months, if we stuck solely to our strengths, we'd actually ditch the news and run all-meathead, all-the-time ;)
- Note: I was talking about when it went down, not when it came back up again. This guy is funny. Check out the EDIETS video, and see how his work has been rated: (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep. As a foremost Nine Inch Nails music collector at http://www.swindley.ca, I vouche to keep the article on Meathead as part of Wikipedia. Meathead is an indispensible part of the Nine Inch Nails online community, providing humour, insite and above all else, entertainment to millions of NIN fans annually. Furthermore (and most important to my position) his internet humour column is recognized by Nine Inch Nails and Trent Reznor directly, through advertisement and linkage from the band's official website, at http://www.nin.com/resources/. 24.150.163.32 21:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC) Mike Swindley
- PLEASE DELETE!!. 65.66.39.1 16:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Please Keep As a longtime Nine Inch Nails fan and user of both TheNINHotline.net and Echoingthesound.org I have found Meathead to be extremely popular and well-known among the NIN fanbase. His humor column is well-established in the NIN universe, exemplified by its inclusion in the links portion of Nine Inch Nail's official webpage.Brightshadow 20:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC)— Possible single purpose account: Brightshadow (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep Meathead is a a very significant figure when it comes to Nine inch nails news. All nin fans know about him. wikipedia is an information site, and the nin hotline supplies constant news and info when it comes to info that is nin related. Meathead deserves to be known, for his marks made for NIN fans. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep Anybody who knows anything about NIN and the Internet knows about Meathead. I've personally witnessed him get recognized at NIN shows on many occasions. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep. King Bee 23:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- Please Keep.--69.214.60.57 00:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)Sandy — Possible single purpose account: 69.214.60.57 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- PLEASE KEEP...PLEASE DON'T DELETE THIS PAGE! Meathead is pretty famous among NIN fans. :-) --Demon nin 00:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Demon nin (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
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- PLEASE DELETE THIS PAGE! Its just another example of how meathead just wants to milk his 10 seconds of fame by having his 'very own' wikipedia. -fetus (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
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- DELETE hell why not. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- KEEP he disappeared on me, maybe because he became internet famous... or maybe because he was Cixe`.. but he sure as hell is famous enough to have a Wikipedia entry. Linked on the official page? Isnt that enough? (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- DELETE wiki entry is of no educational value but is rather an equivalent to someone on urbandictionary.com defining themselves for some notoriety. the entry consists of opinions, e.g. him being funny, that many disagree with. there's no real point to this entry so delete it. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- KEEP Paris Hilton has her own page, and Meathead's slept with way more dudes. -Themethatyouknow (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- DELETE If anything, meathead should have a footnote on the nin entry instead of his own page. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- KEEP Theninhotline not a notable enough site? Are you kidding me? Someone doesn't do their homework. Meathead is even listed on the nin.com links page. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- KEEP He has alot of fans and he has been making us laugh since 1999. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- KEEP Of course Meathead should be kept! I've been reading his column for years. He's an a**hole and all, but many many people still like his humour column, and he is obviously very well known. -Magtig 208.57.69.28 23:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 208.57.69.28 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep it! His humour is fantastic and has a huge following on the internet. And The NIN Hotline is probably one of the best fan-run websites available for music fans. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep Love him or hate him, Meathead is well known by most NIN fans. That degree of notoriety deserves a Wiki entry. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maddox_%28writer%29 I believe it is fair for him to have a definition if a similiar one already exsists. I have been an avid fan of his page since around 2000. Talented dude, deserves it. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep Meathead is a useful addition to the Wikipedia and helps describe an internet celebrity. This is exactly the sort of thing Wikipedia was created for, allowing informative and accurate articles about items other encyclopedias would normally overlook. --NeoVampTrunks 05:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep.It should be enough that The Meathead Perspective is a link on the official nin.com page. Also, given the popularity of "Closer to Mario," people should be able to turn to a source like Wikipedia to find out who created it. I actually did not know it was Meathead until reading this page, yet I'd heard the song long ago. This page is necessary and actually, long overdue.Musicmaniac32 06:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Musicmaniac32 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Comment.To say that Meathead is only known by "a very small online community" is clearly speculation that can just as clearly be proven false. Wikipedia would not allow, nor appreciate if everyone who knows of and enjoys Meathead came to this site and started posting 'Keeps' all over the place (as evidenced by the alert at the top of the page). Just because some people are ignorant of his existance does not mean that others are, and indeed, Meathead is linked with Nine Inch Nails in a significant enough manner so as to warrant a Wiki article (See my aforementioned reference to "Closer to Mario"). Musicmaniac32 19:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Musicmaniac32 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep. Meathead is an important aspect of Nine Inch Nails fandom and is well-deserving of a Wikipedia page. HorseloverFat 08:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: HorseloverFat (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- What are the reasons why the page would need to be deleted? I think the Google search results "meathead" turns up (number one hit) proove that the phrase "meathead" is synonymous on the Internet with this Meathead, and so a Meathead Wikipedia article has a purpose. HorseloverFat 15:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: HorseloverFat (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- keep.People need to know who this jerk is so they know how to stop him. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Delete.Meathead is a suspender chaplain, Cashpiles is worlds better H6a6t6e 08:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Meathead is well deserving of a Wikipedia entry! To delete him would invalidate the entire Wikipedia project. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep. Seems like you only want to delete the entry because you don't like him. Surely this many people saying to keep it is enough to merit keeping it, regardless of whether you like him or not? (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- KEEP When you google "meathead" he is the first thing to pop up (seen here). That should be enough to tell you that it should stay. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep. Since we NIN-fans have a drought coming up, what with mr. Reznor bringing out a new record 'sometime soon', the only thing to keep us occupied will be Meathead guessing what 'soon' means - which means he'll be the only good thing around for a while. If, of course, he makes more flash films. Which he should. Seriously though: Meathead is a healthy counterbalance for everyone that tends to take Nine Inch Nails, Reznor, music as a whole too seriously. And beneath the MS Paint crap and the ugly lay-outs, there's a very good writer who knows a lot more about music than the release dates of each halo. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- As both a NIN fan, and as an occasional contributing writer/editor for Wikipedia, I think that an entry on Meathead, if kept simple, neutral, and to the point, may have possible future archival use for a post-NIN time. Even the band is aware of Meathead's presence, and he is not just a creator of parody, but a presence in the NIN online fan community that delivers humor to fans of a music genre often thought to be morbid, serious, and depressing. --Insomniak 12:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- KEEP THIS. "10 seconds of fame" my ass. Meathead has had a heavily visited website since 1999. Raid0422 12:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Raid0422 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- ‘‘‘‘KEEP’’’’’’ The fact that Meathead himself didnt create this page seems to show that people are interested in him enough to look at this page. Sam89--139.168.115.74 12:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 139.168.115.74 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- DELETE Non-notable person coat-tailing on Reznor's fame. 141.214.17.5 14:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- DELETE Illustrates everything wrong with Wikipedia. Jkryznowski 14:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Jkryznowski (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep. Entry is as relevant to Nine Inch Nails' history as the Mud Shark incident is to Led Zeppelin history. Naysayers are obviously not interested in Wikipedia including pertinent information about rock music and its history. Like it or not, Meathead *is* a part of NIN's online history.Beavette 14:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Beavette (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- KEEP I just love meathead. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- AH, GEEZ. Delete present content and replace with information about the word's use in All in the Family. --Slgr@ndson (page - messages - contribs) 15:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- KEEP I think this article should be kept because 1) when you google "meathead", the link to The Meathead Perspective returns first, 2) The NIN Hotline is the most notable news source for thousands of Nine Inch Nails fans and all of whom visit their page are well aware of meathead own contributions via the humor columns in The Meathead Perspective, 3) The official Nine Inch Nails website has linked The Meathead Perspective in the resources section since the release of the 1999 album The Fragile, 4) Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails has on various occassions interacted with meathead as seen when answering fan questions, photos/videos of meathead at certain shows while on tour since '99, and the whole birthday party after a show event. I would argue an article of meathead is legitimate for all these reasons. Also, though The NIN Hotline did mention this article is in question for deletion, you will see in a short amount of time how many NIN/NIN Hotline/meathead fans do know about meathead and will argue otherwise to keep this article. - Nlibera 16:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- KEEP It's important to note that in the context of Nine Inch Nails and Trent Reznor, Meathead is part of the band's total experience. He has been part of the history of this band since 1999 and is certainly not somone "riding on Trent Reznor's coattails". Meathead's talent and humor have kept NIN fans entertained for years. As a satirist and humorist he is funnier than most of what passes for comedy today. Last year, a rumored end to the Meathead Perspective sent fans into fits of grief and hair ripping at the thought of not having his satirical point-of-view around. If someone not overly familiar with the band, or it's culture were to hear "Meathead" it would be nice to think that they could check it out on the Wiki. Solitude3 2 August, 2006 — Possible single purpose account: Solitude3 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Strong Keep He's a well known satirst of a well known band. That's worth a 'wittle Wikipedia article, surely? Less notable people have articles. Spaltavian 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- DELETE unlike the mud shark incident with led zeppelin, meathead is irrelevant and unrelated to nine inch nails as a band and trent reznor's music. being a person popular in an online community of fans is not so important as to have its own wikipedia entry, much less the main "meathead" entry when there are more famous "meathead" characters in other media. it won't be many years before the meathead perspective is a distant or forgotten memory, and decades down the line, as people remember bands like the beatles today, no one is going to associate with or even remember an online humor columnist named meathead when discussing nine inch nails. delete this unnecessary wiki entry.65.113.54.254 17:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)travis
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- Comment I strongly disagree. Meathead will be part of NIN's story forever. NIN is very much involved in the internet. The months leading up to the release of 'The Fragile' is a prime example of this. Do a little research and you'll find that certain marketing tactics were directly focued on the NIN internet fanbase, including Meathead. Also, Meathead kept us laughing during the (long drawn out) years until '[WITH_TEETH]' was released. Meathead was around for all of it and it is relevant. I've only recently heard of the 'mud shark incident'. Does that mean it's not relevant? Absolutely not, I'm just not a fan of Led Zeppelin. (Also, do I have to point out AGAIN that his site is linked from nin.com?) (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep.As pointed out previously, the official Nine Inch Nails website has linked Meathead. He is a notable figure and has been entertaining NIN fans for years now. His wiki entry should be kept.Imaginaryally 18:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Imaginaryally (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep. If ever you happen to run into a true fan of the Nine Inch Nails band, the word "meathead" is instantly associated with online news about them. Obviously the people who read his articles care enough to fight for this page, which means going out of your way to do this. In no way do I deem meathead unworthy of a wikipedia page, if out of any Nine Inch Nails columist to have one, it should be him. Simply put, if you don't agree with this page for one reason or another, just don't visit it. But for the fans, this page is a long awaited - and a long due - reward for this incredible satire writer. If you haven't noticed, meathead has had more than his 15 minutes of fame among the internet, this page should just go to show that it goes beyond simple spotlight time 24.141.223.113 18:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 24.141.223.113 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Delete First off, I enjoy Meathead's work. However, my opinion is that this article should be deleted. I am new to the whole "nn" discussion, and as such, I did a lot of reading of opinions and guidelines regarding notability. I found compelling arguments on both sides, however. Ultimately, I made my decision based on the Vanity guidelines and Notability People guidelines. In particular, I felt that this was a vanity article, not because it was necessarily written by Meathead, but because "it can also be vanity if written by a fan, or close relationship." I feel that because of the limited exposure and notoriety of the subject to a very small online community, that all the information presented in the article cannot be "covered from a neutral point of view based on verifiable information from reliable sources." Tabanger 19:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Meathead is a well known member of the NIN community, both on Echoingthesound and theNINhotline. This article is relevent to Nine Inch Nails. Please keep. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep. Meathead is an endless source of amusement and I know many of my fellow NIN fans would hate to see this deleted. Thanks! (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Keep. The fact that Meathead accepted an award on NIN's behalf says he holds a level of esteem with the community and the band itself. Because of this, you cannot just easily dismiss the article as a piece of vanity or self-promotion. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Comment It really needs to reiterated that Meathead accepted an award on NIN's behalf, NIN's site links to Meathead, and NIN threw a suprise birthday partu for him. This makes 65.113.54.254's argument:
"unlike the mud shark incident with led zeppelin, meathead is irrelevant and unrelated to nine inch nails as a band and trent reznor's music... no one is going to associate with or even remember an online humor columnist named meathead when discussing nine inch nails"
absurd on its face. Spaltavian 02:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Another Cluttering Comment your face is absurd. by your logic, any groupie trent fucks should have her own wikipedia entry because she's interacted with the band and is probably online somewhere. way to edit out the key element of what i said with ellipses btw, that in the future--not NOW--no one is going to remember meathead when discussing NIN. even now, not every NIN fan obsessively follows so-called "news" about trent, much less an online humor column by a fan, when there are, i dunno, wars and other seemingly important things going on in the world to follow instead. not a single person i know who likes NIN has ever, ever mentioned meathead to me in real life. face it, this wikipedia entry serves no purpose except for vanity, if not for meathead personally then for the saps who think he's funny. let the more famous "meathead" character have the URL.--72.245.31.166 03:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)travis — Possible single purpose account: 72.245.31.166 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep. If Wiki can host such pointless entries like the Numa Numa dance or other internet memes/fads - then why can't they host an important and much respected internet humour writer? And yeah, I agree with the dude earlier on - if Paris what's-the-point-in-my-exsistence Hilton can have an entry, why can't Meathead?80.195.205.35 06:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 80.195.205.35 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep. i'll shoot a dog if you don't keep meathead! (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Comment. I think the argument that because there are wars going on it automatically invalidates anything less than equal in importance to them as non-notable is not logical at all. Personally, I never have heard of the reference of meathead in All in the Family. Despite the fact I may be a Nine Inch Nails collector and thus probably am more intune with NIN related news (The NIN Hotline being the most consistent, reliable, and frequent source), meathead has been a thoroughly entertaining section at that site. The article itself does need some revision to take away any arguments that it's entirely vanity related, but personally I think there is a fair amount of information there and could be some more that could further legitimize an article on Wikipedia. I think that just because you aren't familiar with meathead in the context of Nine Inch Nails doesn't mean there isn't a sleu of fans and devoted readers of The NIN Hotline who are always anxiously awaiting to see on their RSS feed an absurd headline that must be something from meathead. I would suggest revising meathead's article and if you or any other Wiki editors are adamant about the All in the Family reference, have a search for "meathead" go there first with an option to view a meathead (disambiguation) link. On a side note, I'm actually suprised there isn't an article on The NIN Hotline. Just my thoughts, though. - Nlibera 13:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Delete "Mikewhy" is known to many Tori Amos fans and Tori herself. You could even say that he is a "celebrity" in some Tori circles. He is a fan who runs the popular A Dent in the Tori Amos Net Universe website. But he does not have his own Wikipedia page. Instead he is included in the page about his website. If you give Meathead his own page, you would have to allow separate pages for other fans that write about bands, as well as other NIN fans from the Hotline. Many of the NIN reporters like Leviathant are "celebrities" in some NIN circles. I don't believe Meathead should have his own page. There should be a page for the NINhotline and Meathead should be included on that.--72.81.128.247 14:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Keep Meathead has been around for a long time and I believe he has enough notoriety and popularity amongst a very large community to make this article notable. DMighton 16:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Comment Also, if this example of vanity and exaggeration can be an article: Robert Steadman -- an article about Meathead, which does not seem to be vain or untruthful, should not be a problem in the slightest. DMighton 18:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comment back. "I think the argument that because there are wars going on it automatically invalidates anything less than equal in importance to them as non-notable is not logical at all. " that's not what i said, dick. as for 'all in the family,' whether you've seen the show or not, millions more have seen it since it debuted decades ago than visited or are aware of some online humor columnist of a band. it's a main character on one of the most famous sitcoms of all time vs. some obscure internet personality. your personal amusement at meathead's obvious/lazily random hybrid of humor isn't exactly equivalent to, much less more important than, a foil on a show watched and loved by millions, so why not give that expontentially better known character the main wiki entry? and i say, why keep a vanity article for this guy at all?65.113.54.254 17:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)travis
- Re: Comment back. Do you really need to resort to name calling? I think my comment makes sense. Regardless if I as an individual do not know about the meathead reference in All in the Family, I agree it should be the first thing to come up in a Wikipedia search. If the current Meathead article is cleaned of the vanity pieces (mostly the "Trivia" section), and if there are any parts that sound non-neutral to have it revised as needed, I think that would be worthy of keeping. That way it's accessible to any Nine Inch Nails fan curious about The NIN Hotline's most well-known author/journalist. Even if you don't know about him, don't like him, or don't care to know more, I think it's viable information that should be available to the inquiring public, no matter how small that inquiry may be. And that is just my opinion, take it as you will. - Nlibera 18:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Comment. "I think it's viable information that should be available to the inquiring public" But couldn't said information be added to a (edit: Wikipedia) NIN hotline page? That makes more sense than having a separate page for every NIN Hotline reporter that is popular in the NIN online fan circles. Once you take out the vanity information, there is very little "viable" information left about Meathead. What information exactly entails Meathead having his own separate page? Because the way I see it, Meathead having his own page is vanity.72.81.128.247 19:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Re: Comment. I agree there are parts that qualify as obvious vanity. They should be removed. Perhaps there isn't a lot left, but there are plenty of articles on Wikipedia that are stubs as well, and in many cases I'm assume there isn't much else to add. As well, the many staff members of The NIN Hotline probably do have the ability to create detailed biographical sections and even one for Meathead (or maybe just Leviathan, owner and head maintainer of The NIN Hotline as far as I know), but then I have no control and cannot contribute to it. I think they are trying to keep it as professional as they can with the staff members "wank page" being small as that's not what the site itself is about as it's for new on Nine Inch Nails. So my understanding is Wikipedia is an open-ended encyclopedia for anyone to add information on anything, in this case Meathead. Instead of trying to find information on Meathead on his website or The NIN Hotline, I could come to Wikipedia to find all the information many have collaboratively added to get as much info on him at once, versus the possibility of googling it or searching through the vast forums of echoingthesound.org (and personally, I'm not a fan of forums). If this article is deleted, then that's what I'd have to do. If it isn't, maybe there isn't a lot now, but who knows in the future. At least I am not restrained by The NIN Hotline's decisions on what and what not to author on their website about Meathead. I hope that was clear, let me know if there is more I can clarify. - Nlibera 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Clarification: I thought my meaning was clear, but I guess not. I meant that there should be a paragraph or so about Meathead on a NIN Hotline Wikipedia page, instead of one Wikipedia for Meathead, one of the Hotline itself, one for Drunkpoet, one for Leviathant, etc. LOL, I wasn’t talking about the actual Hotline page itself (which btw does have staff bios up). 72.81.128.247 02:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC) )Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Re: Comment. I agree there are parts that qualify as obvious vanity. They should be removed. Perhaps there isn't a lot left, but there are plenty of articles on Wikipedia that are stubs as well, and in many cases I'm assume there isn't much else to add. As well, the many staff members of The NIN Hotline probably do have the ability to create detailed biographical sections and even one for Meathead (or maybe just Leviathan, owner and head maintainer of The NIN Hotline as far as I know), but then I have no control and cannot contribute to it. I think they are trying to keep it as professional as they can with the staff members "wank page" being small as that's not what the site itself is about as it's for new on Nine Inch Nails. So my understanding is Wikipedia is an open-ended encyclopedia for anyone to add information on anything, in this case Meathead. Instead of trying to find information on Meathead on his website or The NIN Hotline, I could come to Wikipedia to find all the information many have collaboratively added to get as much info on him at once, versus the possibility of googling it or searching through the vast forums of echoingthesound.org (and personally, I'm not a fan of forums). If this article is deleted, then that's what I'd have to do. If it isn't, maybe there isn't a lot now, but who knows in the future. At least I am not restrained by The NIN Hotline's decisions on what and what not to author on their website about Meathead. I hope that was clear, let me know if there is more I can clarify. - Nlibera 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Comment. "I think it's viable information that should be available to the inquiring public" But couldn't said information be added to a (edit: Wikipedia) NIN hotline page? That makes more sense than having a separate page for every NIN Hotline reporter that is popular in the NIN online fan circles. Once you take out the vanity information, there is very little "viable" information left about Meathead. What information exactly entails Meathead having his own separate page? Because the way I see it, Meathead having his own page is vanity.72.81.128.247 19:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Comment Since Nlibera has not commented (yet); this is the way I see it: Informative:1) Meathead is the person who writes the Perspective. 2) Description of the perspective. (This can be a short paragraph on a NIN hotline page) Possibly informative: The Nine Inch Goombas remix. Where and how much has it been played? Did some random QOTD crewmember just play the song once during a break or was it specifically chosen by someone higher up? (If the remix is well known, a sentence or two can be added) Possibly Vanity: Proving that NIN likes him. A brief note can be added that Trent is a fan, but do we really need to know that he accepted an award in place of Trent or some NIN crewmembers threw him a party? The whole thing strikes me as vanity; getting people to like Meathead just because Trent likes him. Vanity: 1) "Pimping” his “artwork”. Selling a few prints online does not warrant your own Wikipedia page. If it did, hundreds of thousands of “artists” would have their own pages. Until I see published articles about his work, his art in galleries, etc…this is pure vanity. 2) Other random "facts" on his page. Not important. (Should be deleted). In short, the "viable information" on Meatheard warrants a paragraph or two on a NIN Hotline (edit: Wikipedia) page, not his own. 72.81.128.247 21:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
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- Re: Comment. I'd also like to know more information on the Nine Inch Goombas remix (as well, Meathead also remixed Marilyn Manson's "Don't Like The Drugs But The Drugs Like Me" that mashed up the Andy Griffin theme song. Probably an early mash up too before the whole 'mash up' genre came about. Likewise the information on two CDs released by Meathead, are, as far as I can tell, not the same person(s). I do like Meathead's artwork, but the article does seem to not be neutral about it and definitely has sway to sell them. Though you can't say The NIN Hotline should have the short paragraph unless you can convince them why it's necessary and have it posted, in the meantime I would say a Wikipedia article should be kept available. Just how I see it. - Nlibera 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Clarification: I thought my meaning was clear, but I guess not. I meant that there should be a paragraph or so about Meathead on a NIN Hotline Wikipedia page, instead of one Wikipedia for Meathead, one of the Hotline itself, one for Drunkpoet, one for Leviathant, etc. LOL, I wasn’t talking about the actual Hotline page itself (which btw does have staff bios). 72.81.128.247 02:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Re: Clarification. I know it does have it's own staff bio page, though short, and I know in the past Meathead had been in and out of it for various reasons or jokes. A NINWiki would be great, too as I wishfully though below as well. Though I don't have the time to make one. Thanks for your thoughts! - Nlibera 14:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Clarification: I thought my meaning was clear, but I guess not. I meant that there should be a paragraph or so about Meathead on a NIN Hotline Wikipedia page, instead of one Wikipedia for Meathead, one of the Hotline itself, one for Drunkpoet, one for Leviathant, etc. LOL, I wasn’t talking about the actual Hotline page itself (which btw does have staff bios). 72.81.128.247 02:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Re: Comment. I'd also like to know more information on the Nine Inch Goombas remix (as well, Meathead also remixed Marilyn Manson's "Don't Like The Drugs But The Drugs Like Me" that mashed up the Andy Griffin theme song. Probably an early mash up too before the whole 'mash up' genre came about. Likewise the information on two CDs released by Meathead, are, as far as I can tell, not the same person(s). I do like Meathead's artwork, but the article does seem to not be neutral about it and definitely has sway to sell them. Though you can't say The NIN Hotline should have the short paragraph unless you can convince them why it's necessary and have it posted, in the meantime I would say a Wikipedia article should be kept available. Just how I see it. - Nlibera 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Delete per norm. Manufracture 21:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
As much as I like his work, his wiki page just seems a bit of a waste. There really isn't much on there that couldn't be summarized in a blurb on the nin wiki page. I don't deny his relevance to nin, but I just don't feel that he needs his own page. 199.126.41.181 23:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)j_kad — Possible single purpose account: 199.126.41.181 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Wishful Thinking. Maybe I'm watching this discussion to much, but I'd really like to see a NINWiki. It seems to be a very easy way to get information, and there are plenty of articles out there The NIN Hotline has been tirelessly collecting over the years. Maybe something Levathian or others to consider creating. That way you could search via magazines, dates, or topics discussed per interview, have more indepth information on nin.com's versions, updates, and other celebutantes (ie, Meathead) associated to Nine Inch Nails in one way or another. Though this is just idle wishful thinking and I myself don't have the time or talents to do such a thing. Then Wikipedia could argue further to remove this Meathead entry. Although I always thought Wikipedia's goal was to strive for collecting as much information on everything eventually. As endless as that may seem. I'll shut up eventually. - Nlibera 01:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Delete - Humourist contributing to a fan site doesn't constitute notability and no other substantive claims. BlueValour 04:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- Delete Adding it as a link and describing on the Nine Inch Nails Wikipedia page is more than enough. The Meathead Perspective does not deserve its own page. No more than the site "Hanging these chains" does or any fan site for any popular music group. --4.88.54.51 15:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Mahatma — Possible single purpose account: 4.88.54.51 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Strong Keep Meathead is a central part of the "NINternet", or the series of fan sites on the web. Forget his relevance to NIN - he's got enough fans to stand alone as someone who is entitled to a Wiki article. Take Weebl for example. --TonySt 22:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
- KEEP Meathead is awesome! We should keep it because it is marking that meathead has made a difference in nin fans becauase of the meathead perspective. He even tells news, just not in a too serious way. He makes fun of the of stupid stalkerish fan sites that just need to know everything about the band or what ever that fan site is about. It just shows that nin fans dont need to know absolutely every detail about their "idol" and its finny at the same time.User:Lee179 — Possible single purpose account: Lee179 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Strong Merge - Clearly, the info in this article should be merged with the main NIN article. Only a fraction of NIN fans have ever heard of Meathead (the Internet is not the world). He's worth a footnote and no more. 68.40.41.106
- Keep Meathead is an interesting and notable character, both funny and insightful and has provided many significant contributions to our humble ninternet as well as the web in general (youtube videos, humor columns, meatart). There are many people throughout the web community who often inquire as to who meathead is, and wikipedia provides a useful resource to those seeking that information, enough so that I fully believe he has enough merit for a wiki page.Dougied 02:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Dougied (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Delete Content will become stagnant and useless. I also think it is shameless that The NIN Hotline is running a message lobbying for NIN fans to keep a MeatheadWiki. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
- Delete after the recent hacking of an idiots email and myspace, I say forget him for being a childish asshole... 71.223.16.208 10:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)hmmmm — Possible single purpose account: 71.223.16.208 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Delete him. No one besides stoned NIN fans with a shitty sense of humor give a flying fuck about him. asshole.--Carl the dinosaur 10:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Carl the dinosaur (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
- Weak keep Wiki is not paper, so I don't see where the arguments that his page "isn't worth it" are coming from. The problem with not notable subjects is that they tend to be fancruft and of poor quality, and the article certainly isn't Wikipedias worst. It has gone through significant improvement, and it should be noted that theninhotline is encouraging its readers to improve the article, not just to spam this page... GeorgeBills 13:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Heltemes 16:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC) It would be really sad to delete this entry just because a few people don't understand the gentelman's work in question. Is he a huge internet celebrity, not really. But, he is an internet celebrity none the less. It would be nice to have usefull articles on artists w/in the internet as well as TV,movie, and radio celebs. I can not think of one productive reason to delete this article. Meathead has been around for a long while, and has been humering alot of people throughout his career (and not all nin fans are stoned and have a shi*%y sense of humor (carl the dinosaur)). Also, by reading the comments left by people speaking on the keep / delete topic; it seems that the people wishing for meathead to be deleted are the ones who are throwing out inappropriate language and squabbling like little kids. It makes me wonder if they want his article deleted because they truely think it is useless info, or because they are jealous that someone has actually made a career out of being a Meathead. When in fact the squabblers have to try and get articles deleted on their spare time to be a Meathead.
Keep This whole thing is so silly. Look, I know people have said it before, but I think it bears repeating [again.] Meathead's page is linked from the official NIN site. The Hotline gets a massive amount of readers, and alot of that is due to the Perspective [which came directly from Leviathant who created the Hotline.] It's a hugely popular column. I just don't see how a deletion is warranted. The page has been fixed from its admittedly laughable beginnings [look, I had never done a Wiki entry before- so sue me] and has really developed into a well written and informative page. Giphangster 16:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I like it, please keep it.
- Comment Holy sockpuppets, Batman! In my opinion, "Meathead" should go to the All in the Family character, and this article should be renamed. Into what, I don't know, but I don't feel as though it should be deleted. Danny Lilithborne 21:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was speedy delete. — NMChico24 03:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jeremy "JDive" Diveley
16 year old claiming to be running for President in 2028. Asserts notability by saying he was interviewed on "Fox & Friends"; I can't verify that. 12 unique Ghits (all essentially his and his friends' MySpace sites). NawlinWiki 23:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Speedy Delete Ridiculous assertion of notability. — NMChico24 23:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
- Delete it's dumb. Danny Lilithborne 01:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Speedy A7 and tagged as such. -Royalguard11Talk 01:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
