Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 October 17

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The result of the debate was no consensus (thus keep). It might be a copyright violation from [1], but I think there is a fair chance that the text may be released under the GFDL, so I contacted the author of the website. – Jitse Niesen (talk) 21:42, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 0DFx

tagged as a speedy for blatent copyvio, but the source is not a commercial contetn provider, adn may well grant a release. However, this appears to be an article about a non-notable, no defualt band. If we don't want the article, the copyright status of the text is moot. DES ^(talk) 18:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment notable or not? I have certainly heard of "Brad" who wrote "Hardcore Zen" and used to have a copy. So he's at least not completely unnotable. Led an interesting life otherwise too. --MacRusgail 19:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Not vanity, [2] known on Cleveland Punk scene. Dominick ^(ŤαĿĶ) 02:54, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as per WP:CSD A7. Hall Monitor 23:49, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adam Rankin

Delete: Personal page, unencyclopedic, create a user page instead.--Zxcvbnm 21:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Userfy and delete --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 21:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as per WP:CSD A7. Hall Monitor 21:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Zxcvbnm --MacRusgail 22:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Guys look at the criteria for Speedy Delete. This qualifies (A1, A7). --JJay 22:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete as CSD:A7, unless you believe that "he has a popular 1up site" is an assertion of notability. MCB 06:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN --Rogerd 06:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:CSD A7. --Metropolitan90 23:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Merge and Redirect to Afrocentrism. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 01:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Afrocentricity

original research (neologism)

• Afrocentricity violation of NOR. Original research by kspence (neologism). Some overlap with Afrocentrism. Zero citations in article. One link to article. -71.112.11.220 05:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect. Trollderella 16:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Afrocentrism. --MacRusgail 16:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. This is the short title of a groundbreaking work written by Molefi Asante in 1980 discussing the theory of Afrocentrism or Afrocentricity. We should have an article on this book. Capitalistroadster 17:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Done. Trollderella 18:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Article about the book is fine. "Afrocentricty" is not the title of the book (though a redirect/disambig would be fine). The current article is not about the book that you are referring to. -155.91.28.231 19:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you - I know. We should merge this with Afrocentrism, and disambig with the book. Trollderella 20:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Redirect and disambig, as per Trollderella. Jkelly 01:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy Keep per withdrawal of the nomination by nominator. Acetic'^Acid 23:18, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Air America-Gloria Wise loan controversy

This issue should be part of the main air america article. The separate article is being used to maintain a POV fork. This account is a sockpuppet of the same individual of the 'Nagin Buses' POV fork. If the POV spin is eliminated from the article it would be short enough to fit in the main Air America article.

Adding to VfD page as it wasn't added properly before --badlydrawnjeff 13:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete --Gorgonzilla 14:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
• Obvious keep. This article was originally part of the Air America Radio article, and moved into its own for space considerations without protest. Article is well-sourced, article is currently under dispute for POV issues (and has been brought to third opinion with no response as of yet), and POV issues should be dealt with within the article and is not a valid reason for deletion per WP's deletion policy. [3]. Finally, there's question as to whether this is a politically motivated VfD nominaton given the "Nagin Buses" reference, which doesn't seem to have any analogy to this article whatsoever. --badlydrawnjeff 14:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I am the one who split this into it's own article, and I did not do it for any POV reason whatsoever. I did it for space alone. It is a subject that it seems a few people want to discuss, and was taking over the entire AAR article. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 15:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Obvious keep. This article has important information about Air America. The folks that are attempting to have this information completely removed from Wikipedia. That is censorship and Wikipedia frowns upon censorship. --- --Keetoowah 15:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

OK I'll withdraw the VFD. I had assumed it was another 'Long John Silver' POV fork specials, see the First responder history for a surviving example of the genre.

I still think that the same points could be made more forcefully and effectively in far fewer words. In wikipedia the point is not space, its the reader's attention. Splitting off criticism into ghetto articles is a bad idea. --Gorgonzilla 16:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was superseded by new developments. The revisions that constituted the original article have been deleted due to copyright infringement. A new, rewritten version has been created to avoid this problem. If someone still wishes to propose deletion, the discussion should be restarted separately. --Michael Snow 23:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Albert M. Wolters

Previous vfd

This article was listed for deletion before. It was deleted. I summarily undeleted on WP:IAR. Why are we deleting articles about published authors who are full professors and experts on Nova? After a bit of a kerfuffle it was undeleted and VfD'd by spinboy, and I'm completing the nomination here. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 00:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)#

• Keep. Expert on the Copper Scroll, published (non vanity) author,for which we have a notability precedent. This ancient old guy you might have seen on Nova and want to read about (you know? like in en encyclopedia?) --Tony Sidaway^Talk 00:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 01:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Could you elaborate? I notice that the previous thingie was set off by your accusation "Non-notable boring professor". Does boringness disqualify article subjects? (If so, then boringness to me would knock out everything about Star Wars, just for starters, though I accept that this is limitlessly fascinating for many.) Or is boringness only damning when coupled with non-notability as a professor? What would make a professor notable, anyway? (Luxuriant flowing hair, perhaps?) Pray enlighten us! -- Hoary 02:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• previous vfd was unanimous consensus to delete. Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • So it was. But have you actually read the article? --Tony Sidaway^Talk 02:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Self-evident Keep Snowspinner 01:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per the very fine Encephalon. - brenneman^(t)(c) 02:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I gave that argument a read, and I think its very interesting. I was almost convinced. But I thought about what it takes to get an article written about oneself. Media outlets are likely to write articles about authors who are interesting to the general public, not academics. So, people who are quacks, but loud about it are more likely to have articles writen about them than people who are importantly contributing to true scientifc advancement. On the other hand, regular living contributors to science don't often have articles written about them, just about their work. I like the ease of application of Encephalon's critera, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be happy with the outcome. Anywho, just my two cents. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 04:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I read Encephalon's argument as well. Not sure I completely agree much for the same reason as Kzollman above. In this instance, I vote delete, for lack of the notability of the professors work and for the professor. Nothing personal, I'm sure that he's a nice guy and his students and family adore him, but I fail to see the notability. BTW thanks to Encephalon for putting the Wikipedian Physician category on my user page.—Gaff ^{talk 07:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Keep as notable religious expert with four published books to his credit.Capitalistroadster 02:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - notable academic. Guettarda 02:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as a notable academic. That is if it survives VfU, as always.Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 02:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • VFU is broken. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 02:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Mr. Sidaway, would I be right, in the spirit of WP:IAR, to vandalize your user page because I think you are disruptive, and wished to show you how painful disruption can be? Anarchy is a vicious cycle. If we really ignored all rules, this project would fail. I haven't been here that long, but when I first arrived, I found you to be a good admin of sound judgment, and I liked you. Your recent attacks have been depressing. Make your points (which are often good ones) with logic, not with with disrespect for others. I do hope WP does not become a land of George W. Bush-esque unilateralism. I am sad. Xoloz 14:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Reply to the above is here. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 15:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete -- Earl Andrew - talk 03:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• keep good articles about marginal subjects. — brighterorange (talk) 04:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep NOVA's a good program, if they say he's good I won't question them. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 04:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete this content was already deleted, without challenge. If a new article, which shows something new (like listing writing about him, not just by him) than a different AFD result might be reasonable. Frankly, I don't like the citing of WP:IAR here. WP:IAR is about freeing individual wikipedians from mindless application of rules, not letting admins use their extra powers to do things, nobody else can do. --rob 04:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Deleted without challenge suggests that the system does not work - keeping it deleted for that reason, rather than on the basis of merit of the article, seems to be overly bureaucratic. Guettarda 06:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as the minimal discussion that preceded the first deletion tells me this wasn't given due consideration. Seems to be a mildly notable academic expert. --Michael Snow 04:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, though it's close. The article is informative and well written. The problem is that it doesn't establish notability. Though some would disagree, I believe that a typical college professor is not notable enough to justify inclusion here. Are Mr. Wolter's publications of ongoing scholarly relevance? That is, have they been used as references in other works? Are they of general interest (Nearly all college professors publish books, but many are only purchased by their students and colleagues)? If Mr. Wolter is indeed a notable individual, the reason for his notability should be called out in the opening sentence. The present opening sentence states that he is a college professor. Tony Sidaway opines above that Wolter is an expert on the Copper Scroll. If so, the article should say that; it does not at present. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 06:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Appears to pass the "average professor test" easily. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete First, by definition, almost all academics are specialists about something; it's in the job description. This fellow's publication record and teaching history do not make him stand out above the vast number of other professors who are toiling away at their specialties. If community consensus decides that we need to have bios of every professor who has published books in their chosen field of specialty, sobeit, but I am unaware of such a consensus. Second, looking at his publication record, I am at a loss to understand the appeal to his supposed authority. Wedge, Eerdmans, Paternoster Press? These are not academic publishers of any repute; they are specialty (one might venture fringe) theological publishers with significant ideo-theological bias. His one academic publisher, Sheffield Academic Press, barely makes it above the bar. A google search for a review of his works returns no peer review of any significance that I can find. But more importantly, Tony Sidaway's decision to ignore unanimous - unaninmous - consensus last time and cite WP:IAR as a justification looks a lot to me like a blatant and outrageous arrogation of authority. It is frankly arrogant summarily to undelete this and then do nothing more, by way of explanation, than declaim "hey this guy was on TV! he has to be notable! You got it wrong." What's the point of the entire AfD process if one admin can arbitrarily decide to reverse consensus - unanimous consensus no less - and then hide behind a ruleset based on a clear misinterpretation of the subject's authority. Not only should this be removed (again), I think that the admin has provided grounds for censure and should be stripped of any power to meddle in the AfD process. Dottore So 07:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Ignore all rules is certainly something that requires extreme arrogance, and can sometimes lead to censure. I've no problem with that. I think I did the right thing because this way we end up with a worthwhile article that would certainly have remained deleted (see arrogance). I also don't like the idea of using the word "consensus" to describe the five or six editors who typed "delete" without adequate explanation in the previous AfD. They obviously just voted "delete because I hadn't heard of the guy and I find professors boring". --Tony Sidaway^Talk 09:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • It's important to note, that ignoring the rules wasn't needed to make a *new* substantially different article for the same professor; better explaining his signficance. If he's as important as you say, and there's ample sources to verify this, than it should be straightforward to write an original article on him (based on verifiable external sources, and not on old content). So, the question isn't whether the professor was worth ignoring the rules, but whether the time saved by re-using previously rejected content was worth it. Essentially, I am saying, on this matter, you should have stayed within the same limits, that a non-admin would have to stay within. --rob 10:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm not saying you're wrong here, but the argument that the article could be rewritten strikes me as somewhat ad hoc. As we can see, the article is believed by a substantial majority of those who have looked at it in this new vote to be a perfectly acceptable one. It follows that it doesn't even come close to being a candidate for deletion. Dottore So's suggestion below that thos e who voted delete in the previous debate may have done so because Józef Tadeusz Milik doesn't have an article also strikes me as blatantly ad hoc. The problem here is not so much that AfD occasionally deletes articles that are obvious keeps, but that VFU flatly refuses to do anything about the matter. Hence my intervention. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 10:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
        • One reason we see things differently, is I'm not admin. This seems to be the flip side of another admin deleting an article despite the AFD result, and also doing "speedy deletes" outside of WP:CSD. It seems fundamentally unfair for just some wikipedians (e.g. admins) to be able to do this stuff, while the rest of us, sit on the sidelines and watch as admins fight it out. Wikipedia will be radically altered if admins regularly overuse their special powers to have superior control over what content wikipedia will and won't have. --rob 11:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Maybe they voted delete because other more central figures to the Copper Scroll like Józef Tadeusz Milik, who did the original translation, btw, have no WP listing and they figured this inclusion was arbitrary and below the threshhold. Also, as it stands, it looks very much to me like a straight c/p and hence copyvio from his [webpage]. Dottore So 10:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Very strong, obvious Keep, though needing clean-up. Logophile 07:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Published author, guest on a popular TV show, significant biographical information available... seems notable enough to keep. While it's true that every academic is a specialist in some field, because of his particular field and his appearance on TV, he may be of interest to a significant number of non-specialists. --Clay Collier 08:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. The excessively brief and superficial discussion on the previous nomination was nothing short of scandalous, and the insistence upon preserving the deletion because of the "process" is ludicrous. We are here to build an encyclopædia, not to construct more and more arcane methods of filtering out any content not already known to a minority of people who haunt the Deletion pages. I too read the contention by Encephalon that an author of a notable book does not himself become notable until someone else writes a book about them: what kind of twisty-little-passage logic is that? —Phil | Talk 08:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Can't decide whether he's notable or not. Depends on whether a TV appearance makes you more than an 'average professor'. However I'd just like to opine that the fact that this discussion is so much more lively than the previous one justifies the use of WP:IAR, though perhaps, at worst, it might have been "right decision, wrong reason". --Last Malthusian 08:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, seems to be notable. — JIP | Talk 09:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, notable author: his Creation Regained has been translated into several other languages including Dutch, Afrikaans, Korean, Japanese and Russian. The book is a key document in what has become the reformational movement. He is also an expert on the Copper Scroll SteveBish 09:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep --Ryan Delaney ^talk 09:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. If such an article is considered deletable, it's time for us all to pack up and go home now - David Gerard 09:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, previous deletion was based on the idea it was a vanity article. Current version clearly establishes this person is a notable scholar in the field of the Dead Sea scrolls'. So the earlier votes no longer apply. The earlier deletion was entirely in process, but mistakes should be corrected. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually the previously deleted version was substantively identical; it also showed that Wolters had published his translation of the Copper Scroll. The participants in the previous debate were clearly asleep at the wheel. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 10:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, notable scholar and author. Creation regained got several editions and translations, cited in scholarly works. --Pjacobi 10:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I voted delete on the last AfD because I don't think the average college professor is notable and this one is perhaps only slightly above average. You can make your argument to keep the article without insulting the users who disagree. -- Kjkolb 11:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment - on the whole "average professor" - no, most professors do not have book(s) published; most focus on teaching and are employed by community colleges or small liberal arts schools. The "average" professor at a research university is by no means "average" - s/he has had to publish entensively to get tenured. As for appearing on NOVA - not a lot of university professors ever appear on national television, let alone something like NOVA. So, as long as the criterion for notability is someone who is more notable than the "average professor" (using the US definition of the term professor), this guy appears to clear that hurdle with ease. Guettarda 14:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Good article. Xoloz 14:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. This should be obvious. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 14:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Insufficient debate in last AfD, not paper, yadda yadda. Plural publications are sufficient notability. Haeleth 14:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete to respect the result of the previous AfD. Indeed the current page is speediable as a recreation of validly deleted content, and was only undeleted to allow discussion on WP:VFU. DES ^(talk) 15:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Please check your facts. Splash restored and then deleted Albert M. Wolters at 18:46. I undeleted it under WP:IAR at 18:52. Zoe deleted it again with a personal attack in the deletion summary at 00:14. Snowspinner undeleted it at 00:33. Fvw deleted it again at 00:55. Finally Snowspinner undeleted it at 01:05. By this time someone had been a afd tag on it and so I had completed the nomination. So the article has been undeleted and is undergoing a second AfD, which it will almost certainly pass. Good. Errors are made, and when that happens no weight of bureaucracy should be permitted to stop us correcting them. This is an encyclopedia, not a social club. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 15:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Just because it seems odd for me to restore and delete inside a minute: I did it to drop the content in User:SteveBish/Sandbox per that user's request. I had hoped that this action might be a compromise between what I supposed would be Tony's reflex undeletion and keeping it completely invisible. Clearly I must temper my optimism or be more creative. -Splash^talk 16:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep -Walter Siegmund 16:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Bicycle. android79 16:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as above. Trollderella 16:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep This is clear and convincing evidence that AfD AND VFU occasionally make mistakes. Ignore all rules has been successfully applied to improve the encyclopedia. Wikilawyers who value process over the end product should try not to take this personally, and then if they're still upset over this, reconsider whether they're actually helping create an encyclopedia or not. Unfocused 16:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Could you please explain in what way this proves that VfU makes mistakes? VfU wasn't given a chance to work because it was short-circuited, and the discussion there currently favors the same result as the discussion here. It's impossible to tell for sure now, but it seems that it wasn't actually necessary to ignore the rules in this case. --Michael Snow 18:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per sidaway. Jesse 18:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Vanity page; non-encyclopedic, non-verifiable. Fuller explaination on its Talk page -- Corvus 18:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep; independent information on Mr. Wolters does seem difficult to come by, so the argument that he might fail a WP:V test is tempting. The article does contain its share of nonverifiable vanity-style fluff at this point as well. But, my opinion, it's still a keeper. I'll add my two cents on Tony's move: it fell well within proper behavior. These AFDs with no real discussion are always suspect: it's supposed to be a consensus-gathering discussion, not an up-or-down vote. When there's no discussion, it's a good thing to have an admin go look at the page in question and see if the article should be re-Afd'd. Although if I were he, I would have abstained from voting after doing so. No big deal though. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • The problem is that it's more than just fluff/vanity taken from the prof. The critical text in the article "...also done work on the Dead Sea Scrolls, in particular the Copper Scroll, which is a list of buried treasure (probably taken from the temple in Jerusalem in New Testament times)." was lifted from the prof's freewebs page, wasn't put in quotation marks, and wasn't attributed to the professor. The tone of this AFD seems to be that the first-round AFD'ers didn't bother doing their research. In fact, the article's author didn't do their research, and the undeleter didn't do it. If this prof is worthy, then go and do the research, find the independent reliable sources, and make a genuine substantially different article. --rob 19:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep this fine article. This is such an obvious keep as to baffle. Agree entirely with Tony's rationale and with Un's comments. Censure Dottore So for personal attacks.--Nicodemus75 19:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Basta. How is what I said a personal attack? I am critical of the admin's behaviour which, although I am in the minority here, I think can legitimately be interpreted as pushing the envelope when it comes to a consensus-driven, comunity based site. Dottore So 20:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Absolutely. Your criticisms didn't come close to being a personal attack, and if someone breaks the rules as I have done it would be a bit odd if nobody came out and made some pretty trenchant criticism. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 20:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• COPYVIO. The text, with only minor changes, is lifted from the professor's personal website. Thanks to rob for identifying the source. Dragons flight 19:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually, to be fair , Dottore So spotted it first. I didn't spend the time yet, to see how much is the same or different. I just noticed the one glaring example. --rob 19:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • It appears that Snowspinner has fixed the possible copyright problem. Thanks, Snowspinner. Unfocused 20:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
      • To avoid any taint of copyright infringement, I have ditched all versions of the article prior to Snowspinner's rewrite. --Tony Sidaway^Talk 20:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment whatever the result of this AfD, Wikipedia, and especially the contributors here, can be very proud of the intelligent and open way the whole thorny matter has been handled on this page. Intellectual engagement, courtesy and understanding have been the order of the day. AndyJones 20:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't have a problem reopening the AfD, but I resent the personal attacks on those who voted delete in the original nomination. -- Kjkolb 20:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Good article. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 22:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Notability established. Christopher Parham (talk) 22:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep. Ral315 (talk) 13:55, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Angelica Garnett

Was listed for speedy under A7, and it's true the article does not assert her notability, but she's linked to from several articles, so maybe the article just needs expanding. No vote from me yet. Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 10:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep if expanded; arguably notable by association, crops up reasonably often in literature on the Bloomsbury Group, also a published author in her own right. Haeleth 14:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep due to her involvement in the Bloomsbury Group. Someone will expand it eventually. Kewp (t) 21:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep all members of the Bloomsbury Group. Kappa 21:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• keep please she is a notable person not a speedy Yuckfoo 21:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Looks notable enough to stay. It could obviously use some serious expansion, though. -Haon 21:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. Won a Joe Ackerley Memorial Prize for Autobiography in 1984 for Deceived with Kindness: A Bloomsbury Childhood. Notable enough for mine. Capitalistroadster 00:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Her autobiography deserves a synopsis; I'd do it myself if I hadn't read it so long ago. Tweeq 01:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted as blatant copyvio. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 10:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ansem Reports

Normally I don't concern myself with the minutiae of games, in this case, it appears that including the reports here in this article is a copyright violation. I wanted validation of my opinion, which is why I brought this here. User:Zoe|^(talk) 00:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment looks like copyvio to me. [4] clearly says Site content and graphics are copyright © FFExodus team, unless noted otherwise.. [5] has no notice but that means not public. On lots of other sites - which probably haven't released into the public domain. Dlyons493 Talk 01:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. Yeah, looks like a copyvio. – Seancdaug 02:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Original Research. D. G. 02:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:09, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ansoft

Incorrectly tagged as speedy for vanity/corporate advertising. No vote. · Katefan0^(scribble) 21:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete- Advertising. --MacRusgail 22:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, unencyclopedic advert. MCB 06:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arcadification

Neologism/dictionary definition -- Kjkolb 16:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - nn neologism --MacRusgail 19:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment - I'm not sure why this article is being considered for deletion. I stumbled across it recently and added the last point about the gamespot review. Searching google for the term shows a number of references to the phrase in the exact context as defined in the article. It is subject specific (video games), and while clearly a neologism, it is still valid--Daryl.welsh@gmail.com 23:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete- as per nominator/MacRusgail. --Ragib 07:56, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Merge and redirect Wikibofh 14:46, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Are We the Waiting

Non-notable song. It may be important to the American Idiot storyline, but it could be merged into the American Idiot article, or just deleted. Either way, it has to go. WB 22:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Merge into American Idiot --MacRusgail 22:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge for reason stated above. --Winnermario 02:03, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge, per nom. Jkelly 04:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy Delete. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 09:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ashlee Doletzky

Reason why the page should be deleted Altmusfan 07:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I have now speedy deleted your experiment. jni 09:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Asterism (religion)

This article is nothing but utter nonsense. KHM03 12:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. KHM03 12:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as nonsense. — JIP | Talk 12:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete hoax --Anetode 13:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• delete not nonense, hoax. — brighterorange (talk) 13:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete and it's not even funny nonsense. CambridgeBayWeather 13:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Deleted. It's nonsense or a hoax or something. --Optichan 15:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Saw guy do it. He only intended it for a joke and was pretty upset when he saw the delete notice go up so quickly :-) cap601 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• LOL Delete the guy is a fool and does nothing but vandalism ✌ Setokaiba 11:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

It seems it's been speedily deleted by R. fiend. Should this debate be closed? Optichan 16:37, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Sure. KHM03 17:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Ral315 (talk) 13:59, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Author Alliance

A non-notable group of teens from fanfiction.net, cruft. --Anetode 08:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nomination. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 14:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Haeleth 14:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Oh, Christ, yes. Delete. -- Captain Disdain 17:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete - vanity --MacRusgail 19:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 05:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnyard records

This non-notable record label claims they have two local bands signed. A handfull of google hits and no website (I guess that's why they need the wiki) doesn't equal the big time JJay 02:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. --JJay 02:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable record label with two bands sign neither of which has a Wkipedia article. One of the label's founders is the bassist for one of the bands. Capitalistroadster 02:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Original Research. D. G. 03:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable. Freshgavin 04:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was: Delete.Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 03:59, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barons di San Marciano

Not a real encyclopedia entry; it doesn't give any useful or encyclopedic information. It has been previously submitted for deletion but no consenses was reached. The author complained that he hadn't had enough time to update it, but now it's been almost a year. Jeff 17:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per Jeff. Eddie.willers 17:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per Jeff. --MacRusgail 17:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --pgk^(talk) 18:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Note This page was up for deletion once upon a time? Cannot go for deletion again!!!Charles. 0528, 18th October 2005 (EST)
  • Yes it can. It's considered bad form to put a page which passes AfD back up without waiting a reasonable time, but Wikipedia:Guide to deletion is quite clear in saying that "(i)f you think that an article was wrongly kept after the AFD, you could wait to see if the article is improved to overcome your objections; if it isn't, you can renominate it for deletion." Denni☯ 03:25, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Time for it to go, eventually somebody may re-create it. And yes, it can go on AfD one more time. -- Rune Welsh | ταλκ | Esperanza 20:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• If this is the best that a year can bring, I see no need to rush to a keep. Delete. Denni☯ 03:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete or Modify immediately. Unless the content of the article is increased I would agree with you that this article provides no encyclopeadic info. Maltesedog 13:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. – --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:28, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] BEAST!

Neologism. Delete. Andrew pmk | Talk 00:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Second. Delete. Freshgavin 00:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• delete per nom User:Purplefeltangel/sig 01:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Original Research. By the way, Ms. Brown may be disappointed to find that the term predates her friends; it appears in the King James version. D. G. 02:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom Rjayres 04:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as not notable. Bjelleklang - talk 08:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. KHM03 12:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable neologism. --Optichan 16:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable and poorly written. -Haon 21:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, Non-notable --Amxitsa 22:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Obviously --Irishpunktom\^talk 22:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - Yawn --Ewok Slayer 01:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:54, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bishops college improv

NN university club which is currently linked only to the AFD candidate Poonanner; statements like "Many feel as though Bishops College has set a new standard of improvisational theatre to Newfoundland, and has raised the bar numerous times" (the only other content the article even contains apart from the initial description of what it is) are unverifiable POV. Delete. Bearcat 17:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom. --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 00:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:32, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bollenbach Art Labs

Non-notable art studio that lasted for two years (or possibly changed its name three times in four years, with management changing at least once). The article doesn't assert notability effectively (it hosted two art shows) and it gets only 18 original Google results that aren't Google mirrors. Kjkolb 23:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. --howcheng [ talk • contribs • web ] 15:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - not notable "business vanity" CDC (talk) 22:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Discussion blanked as a courtesy to article's subject The Uninvited Co., Inc. 20:19, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy Deleted by User:Jni. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 09:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Caddoo

This seems to be a very short article about a rare surname with no basis other than vanity -- 81.99.181.231 08:05, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete Lacking context. Zeimusu | Talk page 08:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, useless article. — JIP | Talk 08:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy delete. Ral315 W_S 23:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cameron medgaus

NN and listed by someone else already MacRusgail 22:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 22:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cipiripi

Non-notable product. If they want to advertise, they should pay! 146.176.63.177 17:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Weak Delete Not because I believe its an ad or a fake product, but because I couldn't find 1 relevant google hit - in any language, which to me means its probably not encyclopedic. --CastAStone 17:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Non-notable, non-encyclopedic. --Clay Collier 22:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison of project management software

I originally added an {{expert}} tag to this article, in the hope that it could be improved. It is becoming more and more clear to me, however, that it's unlikely to ever be more than a collection of hard-to-verify entries, and the article's very nature makes it a fertile breeding ground for spam and POV. Further problems include the impossibility of keeping the page up-to-date, and the inherent difficulty of an informed, NPOV treatment of the subject. I believe Wikipedia would be better off without this blatant vehicle for advertisements. Ashenai (talk) 11:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Even if I did have any faith in the neutrality and factual correctness of the article, this table is not useful for making decisions (which seems to be its purpose). This would be better done as an entire website in itself with appropriate filtering options and such. The few descriptions that have any amount of detail in the descriptions are excessively jargony and generally look like marketing spiels. —HorsePunchKid→龜 17:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Weak delete as unlikely ever to become encyclopedic. Difficult to argue against comparison pages directly (Comparison of web browsers was even considered for featured status once), but the others I know of are all well maintained; it doesn't look like anyone cares about this one enough to keep it pruned down to notable programs or keep the spam out, let alone add any useful information at all. Haeleth 12:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:34, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Contingent analysis

This is an original concept, first to be mentioned by the owner of a small firm in an interview that is still to be published. See Talk:Contingent analysis for a discussion first before voting. - DocendoDiscimus 09:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nomination. Please, before you vote, read the talk pages and the reasoning behind the other votes. DocendoDiscimus 00:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Author admitted it was OR on talk page before deleting his edit. Fails on OR and crystal ballism. I can't find any record of Mr. Karp and the term is unknown in the world of financial analysis- google hits do not relate to stocks (and the concept is largely non sensical). --JJay 12:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep but mention Karp only as reference at end, and make it less like advertising. --MacRusgail 17:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per JJay. MCB 18:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. -Walter Siegmund 03:25, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Discussion page onthe article makes it clear that this is OR and the author is trying to use WP to bolster the credentials of his analytics. Dottore So 09:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete WP:NOR--Mpeisenbr 00:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was MERGE to The Daily Show. — JIP | Talk 06:11, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Das Dualwiktorkeinekanzlormerklenschröederlowenbraudeadheatlickin'kopf

Not notable, prob. belongs on "The Daily Show" page, and who's going to type in a title like this anyway? MacRusgail 17:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Neologism; per nom --CastAStone 17:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge per nom, who said it belonged on the Daily Show page him/her/zeself. And what the hell, for the person who actually does type in that nonsense, however rare, reward them with a redirect for their trouble. Can't hurt. --Jacquelyn Marie 18:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Himself! Must be one of the longer article titles on wikipedia, although no doubt, not the longest. --MacRusgail 19:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge. As Jacqui says. Trollderella 19:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• 'Keep would be the outrageously crazy thing to do. So I say merge'Molotov (talk)
  22:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge, and God bless anyone who can type this in without a spelling error. Denni☯ 03:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Marge. Neologism.  freshgavin^TALK   05:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Minor joke without enyclopedic value. Martg76 22:21, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Diabolous Nightbreed

nn band, fails WP:MUSIC (no releases, even!) Haeleth 13:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. --Optichan 16:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --MacRusgail 17:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. Owen× ☎ 20:48, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Distributed Annotation System

Taged as Speedy for Promotional but its not a speedy nor promotional.Placing it here instead. No Vote --JAranda | watz sup 22:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• keep in development since 2000, and running on >15 servers. -DDerby-(talk) 18:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:22, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ehud gavron

non notable - Vanity Rjayres 03:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete nn businessperson. MCB 07:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per above. Bjelleklang - talk 08:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete nn --MacRusgail 22:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy. -R. fiend 00:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Electro Sun

IPs should not be allowed to create articles. Please look at it. Molotov (talk)
21:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete nonsense --MacRusgail 21:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy per {{nonsense}}, {{empty}}, or {{db-test}}, but chastize nom for no-IP-authorship suggestion. — Lomn | Talk / RfC 21:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. --JJay 22:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, and tagged with {{nonsense}}. EXTREME LESBIAN SUPPORT for allowing IPs to create articles, though. --Ashenai (talk) 22:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. — JIP | Talk 06:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Emese

Origin story for the name Emese -- Kjkolb 15:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep - there seems to be a kernel of mythological/historical stuff of interest here that could be reworked. --MacRusgail 17:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Wikipedia is not a dictionary. --Carnildo 20:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - this is verifiable (e.g. [6], though that glosses her name as "sow" rather than "mother"). The article is actually about a mythological figure, not a name per se, so this is encyclopedic. Haeleth 00:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and improve. Logophile 16:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:36, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Exhnozoaa

N-n website, in which the author states was "created for no reason at all...apparently under construction." That being said, this single website with simple forums is not of value to be on this encyclopedia as there are several thousands of websites out there. I don't see what sets this one website to stand out from the several billions already out here. Yahoo! hits are significant [7] but have not shown me any sign of notability. I apologize if this may offend the author. Molotov (talk)
21:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete surprisingly high alexa rank (30,000) for http://www.exhnozoaa.gwgaming.net/home/, but the activity seems low nonetheless. The article is not encyclopedic in style. — brighterorange (talk) 21:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - nothing notable about this website really. --MacRusgail 22:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete- Why? For no reason at all. --JJay 22:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN --Rogerd 06:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I am perfectly fine with my article's deletion and you are all right about it being pointless. Sorry for the waste of your time.Exhnozoaa 22:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy redirect to poohsticks. WIkipedia is not a travel guide. -- RHaworth 14:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Finding Pooh Sticks bridge

Just a joke, I suppose Mu 08:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Not a joke, I followed the link in the article. Poohsticks Bridge is a real bridge. It looks like the submitter is publishing directiong for finding it. Some content may be mergable to article Poohsticks.—Gaff ^{talk 08:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Delete, WP:NOT a travel guide. — JIP | Talk 08:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, general information is already in the Poohsticks article, like the bridge's rough location. It's too much like a travel guide for a Wikipedia article, plus the place has free maps. -- Kjkolb 10:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Ral315 (talk) 14:02, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Foot-pound-second system

Seems to be more original research by Rktect. Unlike the Metric system, Imperial and classical measurement systems don't have well-defined sets of base units. --Carnildo 18:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: I've heard of the foot-pound-second system, so I don't think it's entirely original research. I don't know if the article is accurate, though. -- Kjkolb 20:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • The "foot-pound-second" system you're talking about is a subset of the U.S. customary units, which we've got a perfectly good article on already. --Carnildo 21:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete under criteria G4. Admins can go and check the old versions of the dozens of articles vfd a few months ago listed aat top of [8] to verify that this is indeed content that has been deleted via Afd previously. -- (drini's page|☎) 20:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

User Carnildo is simply incorrect when he says classical measurement systems don't have well defined sets of base units. He's also incorrect when he says feet pounds and seconds are a subset of US customary units. Greek feet, Roman feet etc; are not a subset of US customary units. Likewise the second is a classical rather than a modern division. User Drini claims that this is content previously deleted via "Afd" what is an Afd? Let him be more specific Federal Street 10:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

"Afd" refers to "articles for deletion," which is the process under which the article is going now. --howcheng [ talk • contribs • web ] 15:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Bah Rktect, you getting a new sockpuppet (evidence gathered at [9], Egil can provide proof if necessary) account won't be of use to claim ignorance. You seem well how to discuss on an AfD page. -- (drini's page|☎) 16:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

There is nothing about a foot-pound-second system on the page referenced by Drini, and there is nothing anywhere about a foot-pound-second system having been previously discussed. Since people are familiar with this system and there is no other article which specifically addresses it and it isn't a subset of US units, is there any valid objection to an article on this topic? Federal Street 10:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

3rk3tect, there are three different subsystems of units called "foot-pound-second" systems: the absolute foot-pound-second system, the gravitational foot-pound-second system, and the engineering foot-pound-second system. These are used in calculations, because they form "coherent" (or nearly so) systems of units. None of these systems include any "fingers" or "palms" or "cubits" or "roods" or "kennings" among their units. As a matter of fact, they don't even include any gallons of any type (Imperial, U.S. liquid, whatever), no yards or acres or ounces either--any of those units must first be converted into the particular fps system being used before using it, and often need to be converted out of that system at the end once the calculations are completed, to express the result in some units not contained within that system. Gene Nygaard 14:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

A Google test is sufficient to show the existence and use of these terms, and their meaning when used. Gene Nygaard 14:19, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Google	hits
gravitational foot-pound-second	207
gravitational fps	588
absolute fps system	67
engineering fps	346

Delete. Sockpuppet creation by User:Federal Street = User:Rktect. Furthermore, the term "foot-pound-second system of units" is indeed used, as some other commentator mentioned above. However, this terminology is normally applied only to specific coherent or nearly coherent subsystems of units, the first of which only came into use in 1879, systems which do not include any inches or ounces or miles (there exist other "inch-pound-second" systems of units too). These specific systems are often further identified as more specific subsystems, as they are in the table in the pound article, as the "absolute foot-pound-second system" (uses poundals for force and pounds for mass), the "gravitational foot-pound-second system" (uses slugs for mass and pounds (pounds-force) for force, never used before the 20th century), and the "engineering foot-pound-second system" (uses neither poundals nor slugs; uses pounds for mass and pounds-force for force). Gene Nygaard 13:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete This article seems to be just another vehicle of User:Rktect for his stories about Mesopotamian and Egyptian measures, et al. We seen it before, a number of times. -- Egil 17:09, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Delete as nonsence DV8 2XL 18:02, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

If an encyclopic article on the foot-pound-second system should be limited to what someone finds in a quick google search, why does Wikipedia exist? Before you begin to talk about foot-pound-second systems in Newtonian terms it makes sense to look at what they were before they were combined into a system. Why not just add the content you feel is missing to articles called the "inch-pound-second" system, the "absolute foot-pound-second system", the "gravitational foot-pound-second system" and the "engineering foot-pound-second system" which as you describe them all appear to be different from the foot pound second system ? Federal Street 10:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gary Candor

Lengthy article on a character from a possibly non-existent political thriller called The Interim, which (as noted in the deletion nomination for the book), does not seem to have ever been published. Indeed, no author or publisher is given in the article, which like that of The Interim is long on plot details but contains no information on authorship or publication.

• Delete as above. Andrew Levine 05:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Jkelly 01:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gary mayne

Non-notable athlete MacRusgail 22:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment - created by Svenson, whose backlog you might find "interesting". --MacRusgail 22:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

My name is Gary Mayne and I am the athlete in question on this page. A friend came across it by chance. I have no idea who has created it, but I do not object to its existence. --Gary Mayne 14:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment I would ask the user who referred to me as a "non-notable athlete" to refine their comment and post their times for the 100m on my discussion page. --Gary Mayne 14:38, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: Does not meet guidelines set in WP:BIO. --howcheng [ talk • contribs • web ] 15:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as probable hoax. The only Gary Mayne I can find reference to is a trombonist. Creator is a probable sock puppet who has been propping up other spurious hoax articles in AfD. --Isotope23 16:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment. Running fast does make one notable. This person could win major competitions or brake records, so i say that he or is notable. I vote Do Not Delete. Logophile 16:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

DO NOT DELETE- deleting this would be deleting a page of a future athelete. The boy obviously has potential and I feal it would be vandalism to delete it.

• Keep : This athlete is clearly very talented and could be a factor in the London 2012 Olympics. THAT is a notable acheivement! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.37.156 (talk • contribs) 16:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Then we include him NOW, incase he wins a medal in 2012. --howcheng [ talk • contribs • web ] 17:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete hoax/non notable. One of the two. chowells 20:11, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment Gary Mayne has somehow managed to find himself listed on Gary so this needs to be removed too if the article is AfD'd

• Comment this page was vandalised by User:86.9.0.194 who attempted to change the vots of several people. I have rolled it back to the last edit by me. See [10]. chowells 20:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, non-notable athlete who poses a verifiability problem. Olympians are notable. People who fail to reach the final heat of a national championship because they barely broke twelve seconds are not notable. Lord Bob 19:26, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Does not meet WP:BIO. Whether he "could" break a record or be a factor in a future Olympics is irrelevant, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. -- Corvus 22:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment I am Gary Mayne and i would like to add that when I ran the race i did have a broken leg. This is why i failed to reach my usual times of 10.2 (ish) seconds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.144.131.4 (talk • contribs) 21 October 2005, 09:42 (UTC)

• Delete For above reasons, he's not noteable enough for Wikipedia, and whose to say if he actually does make it to the 2012 Olympics, that's still more than six years away. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, if he does become an Olympic athelete, he can have an article; but untill then he get's no article. — Kjammer ⌂ 17:36, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Not currently notable and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --Optichan 17:42, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The only race mentioned in this article is one in which the subject came in 7th. If Gary Mayne is currently notable -- not someone who might be notable in the future, but notable now -- this article would have to be improved significantly to prove that. --Metropolitan90 23:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Looks pretty clearly like a juvenile hoax. -- BrianDuff 17:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
• Do Not Delete It is obviously not a hoax as the link given shows Gary Mayne and his time in the race.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.43.21.187 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 22 October 2005

• Delete. If the person really exists, he is not (yet?) notable enough for a Wikipedia entry. If he doesn't exist, this is clearly a hoax and should be speedied. Aecis 19:43, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Far from notable. Remy B 18:08, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 06:19, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gathering Conversation/Movement

Non-notable "movement", searched for it, and found no information about it. Private Butcher 19:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Private Butcher 19:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment do I smell a cut and paste here? --MacRusgail 19:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• • It's cut and paste from various articles I've written over time. All cut and paste is from my documents on my computer via MSWord. Can you tell me why it's up for deletion? I don't understand, first time on Wiki 70.35.170.125 20:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • There's some stuff of interest here, but there's also some stuff which could be cut. When I said cut and paste, I was thinking more (C) violation, but maybe not. As for the nomination, you'll have to ask the nominator. I think it's less deserving than some of the stuff on the deletion page anyway. --MacRusgail 20:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Article should be called "The Emergent Movement in Churches of Christ." But even then, I doubt this page can be salvaged. Emergents are apparently not clear on what their movement is, where it's going, who's involved, or what vocabulary to use. They are very, very long on philosophy and wordiness. Look at the Emerging Church article and you'll see what I mean. I believe the author should focus his energies on improving that article. It needs a lot of help Danlovejoy 20:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• • Not yet a movement. It's a conversation. If it's not worthy, doesn't meet standards then delete. I'm learning as I go. One thing for sure the emergent Church of Christ is not the same as the Emergent Church. Distinct differences. When your outside the conversation EC it is misunderstood, much like grace.

Lots of religions with secret knowledge claim they can't be understood from the outside. If it can't be explained in simple language, it doesn't belong in the Wikipedia. Danlovejoy 12:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Misunderstood has become equal to secret? fred 16:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I have trimmed the article and attempted to make it unbiased. fred 16:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)70.35.170.125 00:38, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• • 'KEEP' The article contains useful information about the movement. Some of the comments for deletion seem to be because of disagreement with the views of emergents. The jibe about "secret knowledge" may be perceived by some of us as a not-so-veiled reference to the ole gnostics. And "we" all know they were heretics, right? This is guilt by association. But the purpose of this discussion about deletion is not about whether they are heretics or not. (Yep, the emergents do have difficulty conveying what they are up to, but they are making the effort and do not claim, as far as I know, that they have any secret knowledge.) There was a critique about emergents being long on philosophy and wordiness. Whether they are or not is beside the point. Whether they are right or wrong is beside the point. What is to the point is that they are a small but growing movement within the CofC. They are around and that cannot be changed or deleted away.

Yes, it was an thoroughly unveiled gnostic jibe. I'm not implying anything - I'm drawing an unflattering, perhaps unfair parallel. Danlovejoy 02:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

First of all, anonymous votes do not count in a VfD. Second - there is a difference between "misunderstood" and "not understandable." Grace is explainable in human words, after all, Paul did it quite effectively. This movement, evidently, is not. I have no objection to a description of whatever this is being on the Wikipedia. There are lots of things on the Church of Christ article with which I disagree. But I am not convinced that anyone can write the article. Look at this prose!

The Church of Christ emergent sees present and future theology as creative pursuit and passionate inquiry, like the best art and the best science. Psychology, sociology, the new physics, history, comparative religion, and spirituality—not to mention postmodernism in general—all are calling for creative Christians to unfold new paradigms to use in new world explorations. The old systems are tired, used up, and worn out, but the thirst for God is as strong as ever.

WHA?!! It's the same as the Emerging Church page. Mountains and mountains of vague, crappy writing filled with buzzwords. Can anyone explain this movement in clear, human language? Or is it not understandable from the outside at all? Danlovejoy 22:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• • There's plenty in this article that's not like the Emerging Church page also. Instrumental music/ a cappella, how the emergent churches of Christ are organized, how we see evangelism, and more--and all understandable. And all unique to the emergent Church of Christ.
  • Tell me what you can't understand in the paragraph you cited above? I understand it...it's clear! Do you need me to explain?
  • I really wonder what is going on here. When this page first went up I inquired as to why it was up for deletion. The nominator sent me a message and said "no sources." So I began the process of adding and said more would be added over time; now the reason has changed. Now I'm hearing, it's crappy and can't be understood.
  • Don't ignore something that is happening; even if you don't agree; even when you don't completely understand. fred 23:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

First of all, I have to apologize for the "crappy" comment. That was uncalled-for.

Yes, Fred, I would like for you to explain it, on the page, not in the VfD. Please feel free to clean it up dramatically. No, I am not going to attempt to parse it, but I will give you some objections to chew on.

First of all, why is the page titled "Gathering Conversation/Movement" when it should be titled "Church of Christ Emergent" or "Emerging Churches of Christ?: I think the title here points to the essential ambiguity of the er... movement. Y'all can't even agree to call it a movement. It's a "conversation." Well, a conversation is informal, ephemeral, and almost always oral. We don't call bodies of like-minded people "conversations" in modern English, so you need to come up with a word that is instantly recognizable to everyone who is trying to understand what you're trying to say. The word, while imperfect, is "movement." But everyone seems so enamored with the word "conversation" that they insist on everyone else understanding that bizarre usage of the word rather than the word all the rest of us understand. Why? Perhaps because argot lends a feeling of exclusivity and belonging. I don't know.

To those of us on the outside, the paragraph I cited is simply gobbledygook. It is anything but clear. I find it hard to believe that anyone, in this day and age, could use the word "paradigm" and expect to be taken seriously. I'm surprised the author didn't manage to work in "outside the box," "dialoguing," or "vision casting."

The issue at hand here is whether the "Emerging Church of Christ" merits an article in the Wikipedia. Now, I'll bet if you called up the churches in the list and asked the person who answered the phone, "Are you an Emerging Church of Christ?" he/she would say "What?" Only one website of the churches listed in the article (Garnett in Tulsa) has any reference at all to the Emerging church. There's one blog entry by Wade Hodges and two references to the book "The Emerging Church."

If someone wants to write an article about the "Church of Christ Emergent" not "Gathering Conversation/Movement" that is clear and to-the-point, NPOV, and certainly not sickeningly laudatory like this article, far be it from me to stand in your way.

However, I have yet to see a concise, straightforward argot-free explanation of "The Emergent Church" from anyone. I don't know if it can be done. Danlovejoy 02:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• • Sorry about my anonymous post above(due to my incompetence with editing) where I voted to keep. Let me set it straight that I am--Steve 02:38, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

In unison. "HI STEVE!"

You'll find that the Wikipedia is a very post-modern experience. I hope you stick around and contribute to the conversation. FYI. The usual way to indent is with colons rather than asterisks. But it makes little difference. Danlovejoy 02:59, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Greeting,

I didn’t want to misrepresent the point in time along the continuum of a movements evolution so I tried to be honest when I refered to this as a gathering conversation gaining momentum. That’s what it is--at this time. At some point it will become a movement; but not yet. This is the reality. Conversation always precedes a movement.

As for the churches I listed. If you telephoned each one and asked I know for certain two churches would say they were emergent. Of course, if the church sec or building and grounds people answered the phone they might be puzzled by your question. But if you asked them about belong/before believe or evangelism or the other sections I'm confident a light would switch on; and each one listed would resonate. Remember, the restoration was the product of churches discovering each other and their similar beliefs and practices; a movement.

You're correct--we have our own language. A re-lexiconing project is not out of question. Why not be open to reviewing how our Christianese may or may not be communicating? If we are willing to to translate so native tribes can understand, why be reluctant to do good missionolgy here (in America) so we can really take the message to the streets?

This has really become more than I have the energy and time for. I’m busy and can’t dedicate the time to what I think you're asking (although I have to honestly say I was never clear, and I read the messages on this page closely.). I just wish we had bantered before I posted the article and had understood exactly what you expected. I believe the ECofC should have, if nothing else, a small parcel of Wiki space. Peace my friends. fred 01:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete if it can't be rewritten. I had originally suggested the separate page to avoid an unwarranted lengthy section in the Churches of Christ main page, since it would seem the movement is very small in size right now. A rewrite focussing on the basics would be my preferred way of handling this: who are these churches, what do they believe that makes them distinct from the other subgroups, what's the history of the movement, etc.

Can you leave the link to emergent church of Christ on the main page and I'll rewrite it, to your liking, in the next week or two? fred 01:30, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't planning on removing anything, at least not until the RfD is dealt with (obviously, if it's deleted, the link would have to go). If you do rename/move the article, please do keep the link updated. As I said, my preferred way of dealing with it would be a rewrite of the article rather than deletion. Jdb1972 12:41, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Linuxbeak | Talk 04:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gaytarded

Apparent neologism, but it has approximately 700 google hits, and provides (unreferenced) information on etymology. I felt that due to the (borderline) evidence of use, speedy deletion would have been inappropriate. Creidieki 22:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Weak Delete per nomination. - Creidieki 22:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Strong delete. Linuxbeak | Talk 22:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• keep please it is a unfortunately verifiable term being used Yuckfoo 22:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia is not a dictionary, where every adjective gets an article of its own. The dictionary is over there. Please explain what you think an encyclopaedia article by this title would be about. Uncle G 00:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Eh. Delete, neologism. 700 hits do not a word make. "Fanfuckingtastic" gets 17,500, but that article doesn't exist, either, and I don't see it as a conspicuous absence. Wikipedia is not the Urban Dictionary. --Ashenai (talk) 22:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete - dicdef, and unencyclopedic. --MacRusgail 22:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment -- As much as I hate this article, I strongly disagree that it is a dictdef. It is an article about a word, true, but it also goes into the word's history and usage in detail. It may be unverifiable and poorly written, but it isn't a speedy candidate. Creidieki 2005-10-17 22:59:17 UTC (according to edit history. Uncle G 00:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC))
    • Dictionary articles are not speedy deletion candidates, but the etymologies/origins and usages of words are exactly what dictionary articles discuss (amongst other things). See yiff, an't, theater, Jock, and jock, for examples. Uncle G 00:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete. This is well into the realm of nonsense. --JJay 22:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Also unverifiable as it stands... who the heck is James Liechnitz? --Jacquelyn Marie 22:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Original Research. D. G. 23:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually, in all seriousness, the only problem with it is dictdef. The article itself is of course bollocks and nonsense-- but if it were not a dictdef, I'd say, keep it and clean it up. There is such a (neologistic, yes) word, but an australian by the name of Zechnitz didn't invent it. There's nothing to invent. You might as well boast of inventing drinking water through your nose. It's a stupid invention, and you didn't invent it; wherever there are fools in the world, they will discover it independently. D. G. 23:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Deletarted.  BD2412 ^talk 03:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:12, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gimmick porn

By the definition given in this article, practically any pornography is "gimmick porn", and the term is thus meaningless. Looks like original research. Delete. -- The Anome 08:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep, there is also porn that doesn't have any specific theme but merely shows off porn stars. Therefore this concept is useful. — JIP | Talk 08:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep The definition in the article is wrong? {{sofixit}} --Ryan Delaney ^talk 09:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I think the definition needs to be narrowed. Gimmick porn should be porn that uses clichéd scenes like pizza delivery as an easy way to segue into a sex scene while still having some story. A similar one is the type with sex in certain situations that many viewers fantasize about, like school and the office. Just showing faces would be more like a filming style. Also, reality porn and rape porn should be in a separate category. -- Kjkolb 09:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - could do with a more encyclopedic title anyway. --MacRusgail 16:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - room to expand. Trollderella 18:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete; term is not widely used, and the article is author's OR. MCB 18:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as original research. --Carnildo 20:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete not encyclopedic.Gator1 21:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Regardless of what else this is, it is a neologism. Most of the very few Google hits are to Wikipedia mirrors, so it doesn't even have much currency. Denni☯ 02:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Maybe it could be placed under Sexual fetishism. Or just merged into porn under category types of porn.—Gaff ^{ταλκ 02:47, 18 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Delete Clear neologism per Denni's point. Dottore So 09:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete obvious neologism. Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 22:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. DS 14:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Google it

Neologism/dictionary definition -- Kjkolb 15:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, wikipedia is not a dictionary anyway. Kappa 15:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - dicdef --MacRusgail 17:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy redirect to Google (verb); maybe then nominate that article for deletion. —HorsePunchKid→龜 17:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Neologism/dicdef/it's not as if Google invented search engines. Favour speedy redirect solution proposed in the vote directly above mine. Bearcat 17:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete slang def. Even though "Google" has become a "Xerox"-like phrase, wikipedia isn't urbandictionary.com... at least not yet.--Isotope23 18:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect per HorsePinchKid. Denni☯ 02:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete under criterion #G1. Uncle G 00:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GPS_messaging

no meaningful content, no revision history to revert to, history of vandalism Amcfreely 20:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy deleted as nonsense by Eloquence. --GraemeL ^(talk) 13:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] GWiki

Confused article (and category) about a made up term. I've found no evidence that the word "GWiki" meaning "wikis with GPL license" is in use beyond this article. Angela. 03:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Seems like someone's trying to coin a phrase. GreenReaper 03:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - as per nom. --Phroziac^(talk) 03:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - per nom. /Rjayres 04:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete seems like someone on this GWiki would have heard of it. --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 04:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Hasn't it already been speedy deleted? --Nlu 08:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Don´t delete, because we need a category for GFDL wikisites. You are wrong, this is no "wikis with GPL license", but "wikis with GFPL content".--MAC 06:03, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gypsum effects on enviroment

Couldn't find CSD criteria that fit, but nothing links to it, there's no history, and it's clearly a nonsense page (though not quite a insult page, CSD:A6) Interiot 14:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Haeleth 14:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - should have been speedied as it was created by a vandal in the middle of a sequence of vandalism edits to other pages. Vsmith 15:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete. --Optichan 15:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete Nonsense.--Mpeisenbr 00:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Harchester.net

Non-notable TV series fanclub website. Delete. Qwghlm 12:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, Alexa rank of 430,748. Jkelly 01:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Website vanity. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:15, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hard core gamer

Some kind of bizarre social commentary I guess, written by User:Gamingexpert. Nothing in the article is verifiable, let alone falsifiable. Seems to be a lengthy POV essay about social trends or something, but the premise of the article is unsalvagable imo. Ryan Delaney ^talk 09:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as nominator. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 11:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:NOR. flowersofnight 13:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete original research. Haeleth 14:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. per nom /216.12.128.136 17:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Enh. Redirect to Gamer. Jkelly 01:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Uggh. Next we will have Hard core guitarist, Hard core politician, Hard core wikipedian voting delete this article.—Gaff ^{ταλκ 02:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Delete The first sentence may be salvagable, though. Sonic Mew | talk to me 13:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete This is very POV. I don't see how it would be possible to make this NPOV. --Mpeisenbr 00:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:45, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Harvard Computer Society

non notable webpage. Delete. -- SoothingR 15:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete nn --MacRusgail 17:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unless notability beyond just being a student group can be established (which may very well be possible; e.g., was Bill Gates a member?) Contact me via talk if substantial changes are made. Christopher Parham (talk) 05:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above, only don't contact me on my talk page--I'll watch this myself.. ;) -- SCZenz 00:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Student organizations that exist at only a single school are generally non-notable. --Metropolitan90 23:40, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 06:21, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Harvard of the North

Vanity, vandalism, delete. --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 22:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Transwiki to wiktionary. --MacRusgail 22:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• |M|e|r|g|e| into Harvard College - and redirect/note Harvard of the South there as well. Common expressions.  BD2412 ^talk 22:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. This may have been spurred by this discussion, or maybe not. Mindmatrix 00:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Seeing as it isn't actually affiliated Harvard, merging this there doesn't seem right. Pgengler 16:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete This would only be appropriate in (if there was) an article regarding Canadian universities, Universities in Canada or similar; however, there's only a list. Besides: the term is not prevalent nor important enough to justify a unique article. E Pluribus Anthony 17:55, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Anthony. Ground Zero | t 18:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. "Prestigious-thing-from-elsewhere of this region" is a fairly common construction in English; this particular expression isn't an especially notable or encyclopedic version of that. Bearcat 19:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN --Rogerd 06:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. It now has a merge tag, so there's nothing further for AfD to do. -Splash^talk 22:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hietaniemi beach

Sorry if I am being deletionistic on this one. This sounds like a lovely beach, being the largest in Helsinki, but it seems like most of the article is non-notable for applying to most any beach anywhere. Most relevant material is already covered in the Helsinki article under a subheading. The rest could easily be merged as well. Then this article and the Hietaniemi Beach article both redirected to Helsinki. —Gaff ^{talk 22:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Merge with Helsinki --MacRusgail 22:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• You're not being deletionist if you want to merge, because if you want to merge then AfD isn't the appropriate place anyhow! Since it's still early you could even withdraw the nomination and just go ahead and merge it. (I'd say merge too.) — mendel ☎ 04:36, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Okay. Sorry about my confusion. Still kinda new. I put the {{mergeto}} and {{mergefrom}} tags on the respective articles. If an admin can close this discussion it will be one less AfD to debate.—Gaff ^ταλκ 04:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. This is the most notable beach of Finland and therefore clearly notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia. --Jannex 11:03, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Strong keep. This is a notable beach as it is by far the most popular in Helsinki, the capital of Finland. — JIP | Talk 06:22, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:46, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hogg Johnston Company Formations Ltd

As the article stands in its current form, it looks more like advertising than anything else. If it could be lengthened it could be kept, but at the moment, I'd say delete as it doesn't contain anything but contact information, and services offered. Bjelleklang - talk 14:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete vanity and advertising.Gator1 14:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - advertising. --MacRusgail (Edinburgh resident) 17:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - advertising a totally non-notable company. Eddie.willers 18:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hurt_(song)

Redundant, see Nine_inch_nails#The_Downward_Spiral  freshgavin^TALK   06:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep as a disambig to the various versions. Trollderella 16:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. The original version by Nine Inch Nails is one of their better known tracks and the Johnny Cash version won awards at the Country Music Association awards and a Grammy for Best Short Form Video at the 2004 Grammy Awards see [11] There have been two notable versions of this song. Capitalistroadster 19:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep but really expand --Irishpunktom\^talk 22:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand more. I just added the older Timi Yuro song by the same title and wikified a bit. Vsmith 02:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as a disambiguation.  freshgavin^TALK   05:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep this song and it's effects are amazin (sorry i forgot my name) 18 Oct 18:22 (GMT)
• Keep and expand. Surely this one is notable enough to deserve its own page! --Jacquelyn Marie 19:30, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. A number of articles covered this song when Johnny Cash covered it and released a video for it shortly before his death. The cover was called Johnny Cash's swan song. Should be expanded.—thames 19:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep I was actually planning to expand this article soon. I'll get on it right now. -- Rynne 17:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

  Okay, I just finished expanding it. I removed the Timi Yuro info and just put a redirect link at the top, since I didn't have much info on it compared to the NIN and Cash songs. -- Rynne 20:44, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep. If ever a song deserved an article, this one does. It won awards, it was famous in its own right, it has a significant story behind it (and within it, I suppose you could say), and is often referenced in music criticism. RMoloney (talk) 01:22, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 22:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ida Maria

Was tagged as CSD, but didn't seem to fall under any. Probably nn, lots of external links. Maybe nn-bio, although I'm not sure. JesseW, the juggling janitor 19:25, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• If the bits of link spam are removed, one is left with an nn-bio. But anyway, delete. Punkmorten 20:52, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:05, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Abstain - any Norwegians out there, please comment! --MacRusgail 17:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Everyone can vote here. The article suggests no media coverage, no label, no albums, and no tours. Having worked with someone is not meeting WP:MUSIC. Punkmorten 21:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable music bio. --Clay Collier 22:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] IMAGNiSM

Using wikipedia as a soapbox to advertise for an artist, self promotion, advertising, derivitive work from NiGHTS into dreams possible copyright violation (Unsigned vote by 83.167.250.38, whose only contributions have been adding this to AfD.)

• I oppose this. It's merely trying to inform, not advertise; it's hardly self-promotion given that it was not made by Lynne, and no copyrighted material from NiGHTS has been used without due credit. (Copyright doesn't really apply in a dream, does it? Even so, it's recognised that NiGHTS as a concept is Sega's work; Lynne merely built up a character from the base in her dreams.) ThomasWinwood 00:28, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Where to begin? fancruft, original research, nn personal game character, unencyclopedic nonsense, advertising? MCB 21:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Where to begin? Neologism? Vanity? tin foil hattery? The mind boggles. Denni☯ 02:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I'll repeat what I said on the article's talk page: As big a fan I am of the game and of the artwork of some of the people involved, this really isn't notable enough to have a Wikipedia page all to itself. Suggest adding some of the information from this page to the "Reaction" section of NiGHTS Into Dreams, to give a brief outline of the fan community. --Nick R 14:45, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. Someone might want to examine the inconsistency of the two related AfD results. -Splash^talk 22:57, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Indefinability theory of truth

Original research. Apparently part of the author's dissertation. Delete. Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 11:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nominator. — JIP | Talk 11:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

But this is an important and informative page on a credible theory of truth. The heading "Robust Theories of Truth" would be incomplete without an adumbration of this robust theory! Also ,there is no original work here. My syntheses come from others!! Arhat Virdi

• Probably delete: no non-Wikipedia Google hits [12], compared to tens of thousands for other theories of truth [13] [14], implies that this may actually be original research. An expert second opinion would be useful, though; alternatively, the contributor could provide some verifiable references. Haeleth 12:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Auhtoritative references have been added.

• Comment See the ongoing discussion on Afd for Indefinability Theory of Truth. Dlyons493 Talk 16:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• It still reads like a long dissertation and not an encyclopedia article. The references are not so much references as just more reading on something that I just read too much about. An encyclopedia article on a topic should introduce it in a concise fashion. Here is an example of what it should not be: An indefinabilist about truth subscribes to the correspondence view- that truth is agreement with reality- but resists drawing the conclusion that this succeeds in proffering a definition or explanatory reduction of the concept. If it is a valid and touted theory of knowledge, perhaps it could be placed into epistemology? As it stands it is entirely too cumbersome for this encyclopedia.—Gaff ^{ταλκ 02:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)}

Alright! Delete the page. Will have to wait until this view becomes received wisdom before it is acceptable to articulate this very serious contender for what a theory of truth looks like. Accepted that the article does not fit into "encyclopedic" style at the moment; instead of revision I shall first advertise it globally, letting it (deservedly) receive a wider audience than it so far has. Best wishes, Arhat Virdi

• Indefinabilitists look like a sub-variety of Correspondence Theory to me, especially if you're taking Davidson as a primary example. They fit the definition on the Correspondence theory page that "The correspondence theory of truth states that something is rendered true by the existence of a fact with corresponding elements and a similar structure. A rejection of any sort of relativism about truth, this theory maintains that the truth or falsity of a statement is determined only by how it relates to the world, and whether it accurately describes (i.e., corresponds with) that world." which says nothing about whether or not such a correspondence constitutes a definition of truth. Why not add a short mention of indefinabilists as a sub-variety of correspondence theory on the correspondence theory page? You could add Alston's Minimalist theory of truth too if you wanted. 139.102.45.119 17:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)Brian M. 12:10, 20 oct, 2005
• Indefinabilists are certainly not a subset of correspondencists about truth. Someone holding that to say of a statement that it is true means that the objects and relations expressed by that statement correspond or fit-in with the world is painting a distinctly non-indefinabilist picture. Correspondence theorists argue that their theory points to truth's being a "seriously dyadic" relation, with truth-bearers (sentences, or the proposition expressed by them) and truth-makers (facts lying in the extra-lingual realm) being distinct entities. An indefinabilist says something quite different; that there is a conceptual equivalence between saying "p is true" and saying "p corresponds to the world" and that this being so is not an insubstantial claim i.e., truth is an informative notion, not redundant or dispensable one as the minimalists or disquotationalists or any other variety of deflationism would have truth be. This answers also why minimalism's only bedfellows ought to be other deflationists (by the way, Paul Horwich is the provenience, and only current defender, of minimalism- not Alston, who is a dyed-in-the-wool realist about truth. See Alston's "A Realist Conception of Truth" 1996, Cornell University Press, Ithaca, NY). Arhat Virdi
• Delete Seems to be non-notable and original research. You're correct in pointing out that this won't be encyclopedic content until it becomes a widely accepted (or at least debated) theory in philosophy. --Clay Collier 22:21, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was MERGE to Propaganda. -Splash^talk 22:58, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Intentional vagueness

Vote that material be merged into Propaganda article (where it is already covered in substantial detail, and page be made a redirect to Propaganda —Gaff ^{talk 04:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}

• See also: Unstated assumption—Gaff ^{talk 04:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Merge. as per nomination. freshgavin 05:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete contents, and replace with redirect as this is already covered in propaganda, as well as in glittering generalities. Bjelleklang - talk 08:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Same reason as Bjelleklang. Content covered in propaganda. Comics 16:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge per nom. --MacRusgail 16:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Interpublic Group of Companies Incorporated

Advertising? MacRusgail 18:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep and rewrite. IPG is one of the largest companies around. I used to work in a company that was owned by them. --howcheng [ talk • contribs • web ] 23:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. It's a large company. --Lukobe 05:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. It's one of the Big 3 advertising holding companies and a competitor of the one I work for, Omnicom Group, where it is referenced by a better name - Interpublic Group. I would rename it. --Condorman 05:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Major company. CalJW 10:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Redirect. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:52, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] IRC commands

commands are either a how-to or a database article - both are violations of Wikipedia policies. Scriberius 14:50, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to List of IRC commands. Jay 12:18, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy redirect - duplicate content. --Celestianpower ^hablamé 20:52, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect Due to duplicate entry. bjelleklang 23:35, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. Redirect. —Cryptic (talk) 16:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect as per Celestianpower. MCB 21:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge and redirect. To List of IRC commands. --OorWullie 08:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. — JIP | Talk 06:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Janet Reno’s Dance Party

This afd nomination was incomplete. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• It was a sentence, but I expanded it. Keep, expand more, and move to Janet Reno's Dance Party (you'll notice the incorrect punctuation in the name where it is now). --Jacquelyn Marie 18:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, expand, and move as per Jacquelyn Marie. Good job. MCB 06:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep --Chupon 14:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Comparable to other SNL skit articles --Ctrl build^talk

23:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was COPYVIO. Someone should have tagged and bagged this rather than leaving it open. We don't 'vote' on copyvios! -Splash^talk 23:07, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Japanese Journal of Religious Studies

Wikipedia is not the place to promote a commercial magazine.

• Speedy Delete: The Journal doesn't appear to be notable, and the included subscription information tells me this is a promotional piece, not encyclopedic content. --MJ^(☎|@|C) 20:14, 2 October 2005 (UTC).

• Neutral: The article has made some markable improvements and has lost it's commercial nature; I am not in a position to furter judge the content or the notability, so I no longer vote for a delete. --MJ^(☎|@|C) 22:30, 5 October 2005 (UTC).

This is not a "promotional piece." The author merely thought to be thorough in description of the journal: will delete subscription information immediately. I believe the article is worthy of encyclopedic inclusion because of this journal's (JJRS) importance and influence in the study of Japan, religion, history, anthropology, and East Asia in general. Jb05-crd 02:02, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Subscription information has been deleted from the article. For anyone familiar with the study of religion and East Asia, the journal is indeed a notable one. Recommend not deleting. Jb05-crd 02:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete copyvio from [15]; sorry for the people who've been trying to improve it in good faith, but I think you'd do better to start from scratch on a legal base. Haeleth 01:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Copyvio, per above. Good call. Dottore So 09:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Copyvio. Good catch; I missed that the first time round. --MJ^(☎|@|C) 12:05, 18 October 2005 (UTC).

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 06:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jeff Fairhall

Subject is not notable enough to merit an entry Lukobe 18:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• DELETE per nomination. Lukobe 18:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete· Original research and non-significant. A religious leader with no followers is just a lunatic. Average Earthman 21:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. 235 google hits for "Jeff Fairhall" suggests no significance. Article has been deleted before, but I don't know if it's essentially a recreation. Punkmorten 21:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable crackpot. MCB 22:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Abstain I know that there are a lot of people in Seattle who consider this man to be cutting-edge performance art if nothing else. I would have expected people who watch the Fremont page to appreciate that, but perhaps not. The people who say that Fairhall does not have a following are just not into the kind of fun that people like Fairhall attract, and they are those who like their art sanctioned by the consensus of the "garbage collage in a museum" majority. However, I wrote the article, and it is original research, so it does not fit wikipedia guidelines. Delete it if you find it inappropriate, but do not come crying to me when EVERYTHING HE EVER SAID COMES TRUE. Chiggieflip 17:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 23:22, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jehovah's Witnesses sex abuse scandal

There is nothing especially wrong with this article, I don't think, but someone else did the same thing on the same day. The other article has a more relevant title and I don't remember how to do mergers. I'm going to take the useful stuff, that's not duplicated, in this article over to that one if I can work it in.--T. Anthony 03:47, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with article mentioned by nom, if it can be found --MacRusgail 17:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Jehovah's Witnesses and child sex abuse. DES ^(talk) 18:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Keep. Ral315 (talk) 14:07, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Joel Furr

vanity page 4.252.250.72 05:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy keep. --MarkSweep✍ 05:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Do we really need an artile for the guy who might have been one of the first to call junk email "spam." What are the criteria for notability in a situation like this?—Gaff ^{talk 07:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Keep. Not vanity. Logophile 07:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Not vanity, but is it really notable, ouside of a few usenet circles?—Gaff ^{talk 08:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}
• Speedy keep: one of the most notable people in the history of the Internet. As for whether he is notable outside this topic area, this criterion would presumably be used as justification for deleting the article on Kip Thorne since he is not really notable outside the field of theoretical physics. —Phil | Talk 09:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Um, I don't think that Furr is to usenet what Thorne is to Physics. Thorne has made a career and a living out of Physics, and founded several areas of study. If Furr had spearheaded DejaNews or the Google effort, or was the engineer at Google for the usenet-> groups transformation, then his efforts in usenet might compare to Thorne's in Physics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.112.109.251 (talk • contribs) 18:59, 18 October 2005
• Keep anyone who annoyed enough people to get a die.die.die newsgroup is worth noting /Rjayres 11:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unless notability is asserted. The article makes no claim that the subject has actually done anything much besides being on Usenet and being "credited" with coining the term spam (no source cited for this). Speaking more generally, anyone whose primary claim to fame is "Usenet personality" is non-notable in the extreme. It's the pre-WWW version of forumcruft. flowersofnight 13:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as above. Trollderella 16:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Keep; he is a very notable, widely-discussed figure in the history of the Net. MCB 18:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• No vote for now, this article does not WP:CITE sources. Hall Monitor 19:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep after taking everything into consideration. Brad Templeton, the chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation apparently cites this person as one of the first figures, or possibly the first, to refer to unsolicited electronic messages as "spam" in 1993. As was already mentioned, having three or three-hundred newsgroups named after you within the alt.* hierarchy is a very low bar to clear, so this was not taken into consideration; during the 1990s, all one needed to do in order to create an alt newsgroup was draft a proposal followed by a newgroup and ocassional booster message, and the servers would start picking it up automatically. But it does appear that he played a historically notable role within the foundation of the alt hierarchy which is why I am supporting the inclusion of this article. His part as member of the "Usenet cabal" and relationships with James Parry and Serdar Argic need expansion. Hall Monitor 17:21, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Please note that I have not voted yet either and will not until I better understand The issues raised by Hall Monitor and the criteria for notability of an internet personality. What I see now seems unlikely to offer value to the encyclopedia, unless some sociologist somewhere wants to research history of spam and usenet personalities.—Gaff ^{talk 20:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}
  • Right, like articles about particle physics are unlikely to offer value to the encyclopdia unless some physicist somewhere wants to research particle physics. Wikipedia's written for a general audience, and there's lots you can do with an encyclopedia other than academic research. If someone sees a bunch of other people talking about Joel Furr as if everyone knew who he was, and can come here and find out who he is, there's your value. — mendel ☎ 17:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
    • But that's incredibly unlikely to ever happen, given the subject and his level of notability.
• Keep per Phil. — mendel ☎ 21:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Strong Delete; Can one of you PROVE that he is notable (was he noted anywhere?) or widely discussed? What sources refer to him? I can't find anything. Kibo, Serdar Argic, Robert McElwaine, Archemedes Pu etc, have had magazine articles written about them -- that's notable. Joel Furr did not? As far as I can tell, he's only 'widely discussed' among a cartel of old usenetters. But I'm happy to be proven wrong by an enduring source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.252.249.219 (talk • contribs) 03:25, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Well, to begin with, the guy has at least three newsgroups named after him. --MarkSweep✍ 07:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
    • The article itself claims that essentially anyone can create any newsgroup. Given that, having newsgroups named after you isn't a high bar to clear. flowersofnight 13:25, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Yeah, having an alt.name newsgroup is really not a big deal, unless it gets a lot of traffic and actually perpetuates. alt.religion.kibology is a functioning 'religion', alt.fan.andrea.chen is not (even though andrea chen is one of the most inventive constructs in usenet history). But there are literally hundreds of vanity newsgroups that are created and have no traffic. There isn't a significant number of posters perpetuating any of the joel.furr newsgroups, so I don't think they should count. Please look at the list of usenetters in wp and tell me why joel furr should be included. Jorn Barger coined the term 'blog'. Kibo is a verb in the OED. Serdar Argric is known to almost anyone who read usenet at all, ever. There were true architects of usenet, people who ran servers and made decisions for the good of usenet as a whole, not just as a joke here and there, who are not listed. Those guys should totally have wp entries before joel furr does. He never made any lasting admin-level decisions about alt.group propigation, his vanity newsgroups are empty and he was never written up in the print media. Do you guys happen to know him personally or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.252.249.219 (talk • contribs) 14:18, 18 October 2005
        • "These other people should have articles" is a peculiar reason to delete an existing article. The order in which articles are created is not a statement of notability! If you think they should have articles, {{sofixit}}. — mendel ☎ 17:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
        • There are print sources that cite Furr (now referenced in the article). The other standards for notability are much too high: how many founders of enduring religions are there in total? how many of them hung out on Usenet? how many people have words named after them that made it into the OED? Also, the whole argument (I'm paraphrasing) along the lines "X cannot have a Wikipedia article unless Y and Z do first" does not make sense: the lack of articles about anyone you may consider more important than Mr. Furr does not necessarily reflect an editorial decision. If there is a shortage of articles, it's most likely due to the fact that nobody has written them yet. --MarkSweep✍ 17:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
          • You're right, the argument that 'X cannot have a WP article unless Y and Z do first' is totally no good. What I meant to get across is that those other guys played a much, much bigger role then Furr did and this article is misleading about how big of a role Furr played in those decisions/policy/propagation protocols.
          • The standards for notability are not too high, I don't think. If you've been written about in the print media, you might be worth an entry. If you haven't, then you almost certainly are not notable enough to warrant an entry. Is that incorrect?
          • Ok, I think with the inclusion of the citations we'er finally starting to get somewhere and have some real concrete way to evaluate this guy's notability. Kudos to whoever provided them. But these cites aren't enough in my mind to demonstrate notability. Furr is not widely credited with coining the phrase 'spam'; one of his buddies (who happens to be in charge of the EFF) "thinks he remembers" that Furr was "one of the first ones". This is hearsay. Furr was a source for one article in the Nation -- not by any means the subject of that article (like Kibo and Argic were). And then there are two FAQs, one written by Furr himself and the other written by a fellow usenetter. These cites and the friendly tone of the "keep" votes here add up to a subjective, sort of buddy-buddy cartel among old usenetters to keep Furr listed.
  • As a data point from a quick Web search, Yahoo gives him his own category. Lightly populated, but still there. — mendel ☎ 17:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• alt.fan.joel-furr.keep.keep.keep DS 13:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Totally keep. Greetings to Joel from Sketch the Cow; he is a very notable part of early Internet history. --Jscott 17:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Correction: he was a visible person during early Internet history. Would you also vote to keep an article on, say, a prominent moderator of Gaia Online? Gaia almost certainly has as many or more members than Usenet did during Mr. Furr's long-past heyday, and I'm sure the case could be made that the most prominent Gaia personalities are "a very notable part of 2000s Internet history". My point is: just being there at a certain time and making the occasional funny joke does not qualify you to be the subject of an encyclopedia article. Despite the additions to this article, no claims have been made for Mr. Furr's notability besides that he was a funny guy and Usenet moderator. Good for him; I'm sure he's a fine man. But he doesn't belong in Wikipedia any more than Gaia moderators do. flowersofnight 18:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
    • If there are Gaia moderators about whom an article would make Wikipedia a better encyclopedia, write or request them! I'm not sure I understand the difference between "X is a part of history" and "X was a part of history at the time"; isn't that how history works? — mendel ☎ 02:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Keep. Ephemeral life 15:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep If the standard was how how many people someone reached during the time that they were doing what made them notable, Bill Graham would be be more notable than Jesus Christ. While Usenet is sadly not what it once was (I fondly recall the days before the Web.) it was at one time the second most important thing on the internet after e-mail, and it still is quite useful. Joel Furr is definitely one of the more notable persons from the early days. Caerwine 16:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. (I deleted this some hours ago, and have been unable to edit again until recently.)-Splash^talk 01:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Doyle (clarinetist)

This is a hoax and borderline nonsense created by someone with a little too much time on their hands today. There may be a John Doyle clarinetist somewhere. I doubt he studied with someone killed at Nuremberg, is friends with the Pope and has earned raves, while never recording (and of course there are no sources). The author created numerous fake links to make the article look more real. JJay 23:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. --JJay 23:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Confirmed.  freshgavin^TALK   05:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Yerrah, tis grand. Where's yer sense of humour? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.161.252.217 (talk • contribs) 14:11, 21 October 2005(UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete as attack page. --Carnildo 21:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Smedley

This afd was incomplete. Listing now. Delete, attack page. (Not short, so not a csd.) —Cryptic (talk) 15:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete - nonsense. --MacRusgail 17:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - and fast! Total nonsense. Eddie.willers 18:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete as patent nonsense, among other reasons. sɪzlæk [ +t, +c, +m, +e ] 18:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. This article is an attack page and should be deleted as such per WP:CSD A6. Perhaps we should amend the A6 criteria to include long articles as well, but then again WP:CSD does not explicitly specify what constitutes a "short" or "long" article, so this could be left up to another admins better judgement.  ;-) Hall Monitor 19:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • It's short enough for me. --Carnildo 21:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Ulmer

Delete. Self promotion and non-notable. 64.108.199.247 23:50, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Agreed, this is a vanity page by a person who is not notable, and is, in fact, a self-confessed Wiki vandal (see link 1). This biography has been posted as the result of an IMDb feud with another IMDb user and a "who's more important" competition. See: [16] John Ulmer, who claims to have once been employed for a brief time by CNBC Studios in London ought to be deleted as typical and non-notable, and John Ulmer, the unrelated but credited actor should be retained. At the very least, John Ulmer allegedly formerly of CNBC should be moved to the user's ([17]) own user-page, as per Wiki Vanity article policy. User's claims about Roger Ebert, Roger Avary and Quentin Tarantino, and his own film scripts are unverifiable. 203.49.137.60 02:41, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi Shamrock! Or should I say Monroe?

Glad you could contribute to the page's deletion process.

As for the "unverifiable" claims that my content has been read by Ebert and Tarantino, et al...care for me to scan and upload their feedback to me? Which include autographed books?

And would you like me to scan over my legal papers pertaining to my employment/internship at CNBC on Fleet Street in London, England?

Cheers, Monroe! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.136.94.27 (talk • contribs) 02:25, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nomination. Non-notable. Although Ulmer has an imdb.com listing ti appears he has only played in minor roles. Eddie.willers 18:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:47, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Join the crowd

dict def, non encyclopedic cohesion | talk 04:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom, and obviousness. Image:Smilie.gifMolotov (talk)
  
• Delete dicdef. Rhobite 04:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete DicDef, but please DON'T move to Wiktionary - we can do better. 195.144.130.1 15:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as unencyclopedic triviality. MCB 18:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. Article was recreation of previously deleted content. Cyberjunkie | Talk 09:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jolie laide

Dicdef. Previously deleted. Chick Bowen 23:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy Delete CSD:G4, recreation of previous deleted article. MCB 06:29, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was was candidate for speedy deletion. Article incorrectly referred to Afd. Accordingly deleted. Cyberjunkie | Talk 09:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jonathon Rogers

As far as I can tell this person is not notable in any way, and I believe that this is a vanity article. I am going to put this article up for deletion. Keoki 19:32, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

• Note: AfD page was blanked by 212.219.229.3. [maestro] 09:08, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per nomination. This article is naught but the purest Welsh vanity. Eddie.willers 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy as nn-bio. No claim to notability. Added the tag. Jkelly 01:39, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Joyce Tenneson

Vanity page, copyvio pfctdayelise 14:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. Copyvio from here - is it a copyvio if it's your own site? I am listing this on AfD instead of Speedy delete because I don't know if the subject is notable enough to warrant inclusion. - pfctdayelise 14:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• I'm most emphatically not an expert on the field photography, but if she's won numerous awards and been named among the ten most influential female photographers in the history of photography by American Photo Magazine, that sounds like she's notable enough. Google doesn't return all that many hits, but the ones that I do get seem to be relevant enough. Or am I missing something here? Unless I am, I'd say keep and rewrite, because right now it's pretty damn far from a decent encyclopedia article. Hard facts are required. It does feel like a vanity page, but the subject appears to be notable enough nonetheless. (And obviously, if you own the copyright for a piece of text, you can use that in Wikipedia, no problem -- though after that you can only blame yourself if it shows up somewhere else, possibly modified, what with the whole GNU Free Documentation License thing and all.) -- Captain Disdain 16:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete as copyvio as per guideline A8. She is notable enough to have an article in her own right but not a copyvio. The copyvio was from an anonymous address so we don't know if its her or not - it is inappropriate content in either case. Capitalistroadster 00:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Fails "commercial content provider" and "48 hours" clauses of CSD A8. Still a copyvio though. Subject is notable, but delete this until such time as someone writes a proper article. Haeleth 00:38, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Dottore So 09:44, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:43, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jpractice

• Delete as it's utterly NN, not Googleable. Budgiekiller 11:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. Delete, doesn't seem to meet WP:CORP. I'm surprised that the obligatory external link was missing. —Cryptic (talk) 16:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per nomination. Eddie.willers 19:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom--Bkwillwm 23:35, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 23:31, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kazraine Maars

Was up for speedy under A7, but it asserts his notability by dint of being lead singer of Vampyrouss, which is also up for deletion. Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 18:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, not notable as is Vampyrouss. feydey 11:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I was the speedy nominator; should have realised that it didn't qualify, apologies for the extra work caused. - Haeleth 12:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Not notable. --Clay Collier 22:27, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was MERGE to KVCD. -Splash^talk 02:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] KDVD

Information looks to be duplicated in KVCD. (This is just based on a quick glance at the linked website. I don't know much about this, so I could be wrong) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.104.11.92 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with KVCD: KDVD is "using KVCD parameters to create DVDs" [18], so they are one and the same thing. Haeleth 12:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge per Haeleth. Rd232 ^talk 00:00, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:34, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kinger

Winnipeg slang for a large beer can. Kjkolb 15:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - not encyclopedic. --MacRusgail 17:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per nom. --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 00:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. If this is verifiable it could be put on Wiktionary. -- Corvus 02:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete. – ABCD^e✉ 05:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete Karmafist 02:02, 26 October 2005 (UTC)tally on talk page

[edit] Kitchen distribution

Poorly written and un-wikified, one of three edits by IP address 24.51.38.241. Google search for ""kitchen distribution" buffalo" produces 120 results. Delete. Joel7687 08:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Looks like it is an ad or similar. Bjelleklang - talk 08:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete advert or review of nn local business. MCB 18:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Ad complete with directions. Devotchka 00:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

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• Recreated 8 Feb 2006 - Delete again Still (again?) poorly written and pointless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.145.168 (talk • contribs)
• Speedy G4. Royal Blue ^T/_C 03:43, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per prior AfD Ruby 03:59, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as above Fan 04:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy deleted for re-created content and protected from further re-creation. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 07:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Knunder

Recreation of an article which has been deleted before. I tried to prevent it by redirection but the author turned it into another nonsense. BorgQueen 22:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete - nonsense. --MacRusgail 22:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I notice it has been deleted already 10 times. Perhaps it is time to protect it. --BorgQueen 22:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete all. Ral315 (talk) 14:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kurt beyer films and Kurt Gunter Beyer and redirects

Also the redirect Kurt Beyer Films. Also Kurt Gunter Beyer and its redirect Kurt Raymond Beyer.

• Not notable. The referenced website is one page with "All Hail the Mighty Kurt?" on it. No Google hits. Kurt Gunter Beyer's only claim to notability is as head of this 'organisation'.DJ Clayworth 16:37, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
• Actually, for a long while there were various flash cartoons on there, pretty goofy actually. Also, I've seen Ghost Fights on a myspace website for a while, but it was taken down after the link broke. - Harry Raymond —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.85.131 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
• Mr. Beyer is quite a celebrity here in Montclair; his masterful film works are considered sacred by many townsfolk. I happen to have met the man in the flesh, and have had the pleasure of taking part in a few of his earlier films, such as "Henry Clay- Caught On Tape!" and "The Beast". As a routine contributor to Wikipedia (I've "edited" the George W. Bush page many a time) I feel that my statement here should nt be taken lightly. -Mattie I —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.3.77 (talk • contribs) 22:02, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
• The Kurt Beyer Films website used to be much larger, and receive many hits, but has recently been changed due to a hiatus from filming. Kurt Beyer truly is a local celebrity, and although I do not know him personally, I have seen his work and think he is worthy of a Wikipedia entry. -Andre Cernasov Oct 6, 2005 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.158.179.108 (talk • contribs) 15:30, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
• Besides being one of the great minds in Montclair, NJ...Mr. Beyer, ironically, has a great fashion sense. he taught me to pop my collar, and since then, the girls can't take their hands off me. Kurt Gunter Boyd Jefferson Carmichael Beyer's genius should be reflected in this great biography. -Art Core...Velay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.193.9.194 (talk • contribs) 02:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
• Actually, I'm Kurt Beyer and all of these facts are correct. I don't know how some of these things are remembered, but somehow it is almost complete now. KurtGbeyer 02:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Please note KurtGbeyer's scant contributions. —Cryptic (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now. Delete, RickK memorial sockpuppet limit breached. (Also per nom.) —Cryptic (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable webfilm creator & company. So this AfD is where all the missing left socks are...--Isotope23 18:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nn, puppetfest. MCB 21:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete puppet party. Denni☯ 03:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete nn. Above-average puppet-gushing made me laugh, though. Dottore So 09:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• DON'T DELETE, 'tis a real thing. leave it be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.7 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Can you provide any third-party verification? Perhaps some media attention? —Cryptic (talk) 18:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually, no, I am yet to recieve any media attention. Perhaps soon in the future though

—KurtGBeyer

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The result of the debate was No consensus. Owen× ☎ 20:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lead or leave

NN. -- 202.156.6.68 22:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• delete nn Youngamerican 02:01, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
• Strong keep now defunct, but the group seems to have been significant. I found a few different articles about it on google. The group looks like it had at least several thousand members. I also did a Lexis-Nexis newspaper search which turned up about 100 relevant articles mentioning the group, mainly in the years of 1993 and 1994. Not the most important group ever, but I think they're worthy of a wikipedia article.--Bkwillwm 23:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. — JIP | Talk 07:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of Amtrak station codes

Delete this as it is an unmaintainable list. All the three-letter code links are invalid links. This list is so big, that it can't be fixed, and it gives no useful information. Surely, people should check out the appropriate official site to get the meaning of a code. This sadly has a lot of back-links, but from checking, they are another reason to get rid of this. Three-letter abbreviation disambig pages shouldn't list station codes along with common meanings of the abbreviation rob 05:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per above. Bjelleklang - talk 08:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: all information is verifiable, and useful. There should be no reason why this list cannot eventually be completed. Also, please provide some reason as to why Three-letter abbreviation disambig pages shouldn't list station codes along with common meanings of the abbreviation: if I wanted to find out what the three-letter code was on a luggage label, I would want to search on the code, not have to deduce which list to look it up in. —Phil | Talk 10:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • This list is too large to ever be updated/verified properly. Nobody is going to spend hours reviewing every entry, so that one or two stations can be added or removed as needed. It's filled with masses of errors, nobody has bothered to fix, for instance, it links to the "train code" of OAC which re-directs to Ontario Academic Credit. Of course what it doesn't link to is actual train station articles. I object to these codes being on disambig pages, since it makes it harder to find other information. If we put Amtrack codes on disambig pages, we have to list other train station codes, part codes, and all sorts of codes. The disambig pages are to help people find wikipedia articles, and nothing else. We have to be wary of piece-by-piece additions to disambig pages, which can add up over time. --rob 11:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment. By this logic, Wikipedia:List of lists should also go. --Jacquelyn Marie 17:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
      • But don't most of those lists actually point to relevant articles, or give red-links for articles that should be made? Notice, I AFD'd this list, but not List of Amtrak stations, which lets people look up a code, and also gives them a related articles. Alpha-sort is needed for full names, but not for 3-letter codes, as a) people don't know the codes usually, b) if they know the codes they can search for it with the browsers "find in page" feature. This list has a substantial number of erroneous blue links (roughly 50% of all links), pointless red-links (e.g. combinations of two city names), and has no useful links (e.g. no stations), and fixing this would probably require remaking it from scratch. --rob 00:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as original data that is best looked up at the original source. Pilatus 10:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep but unlink all the Three Letter Abbreviations. We have List of Amtrak stations and listing them by abbreviation is valid and might be useful. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Amtrak also has a list of their stations here. Wikipedia is a secondary source, not a copy of primary sources, i.e. not a manually maintained mirror of the Amtrak website. Pilatus 11:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
    • I think this list makes sense when we have lists of airports by IATA code, such as List of airports: N. Of course, the airport list is more useful since people more often refer to the TLA when talking about airports than for stations, but still, various ways of ordering stations is OK with me. I will let my keep vote stay, time will show if the consensus is against me, but I hope it isn't :-). Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
      • My guidelines are these: There should be entries for urban infrastructure, such as airports, train stations and bus interchanges. The List of airports is fine, as is the List of Amtrak stations, even though maintenance is a problem. The List of Amtrak station codes that we are discussing here is a duplicate of the List of Amtrak stations and also a copy of original data from the Amtrak website. That is why I think it ought to go. Others may argue different, of course. Pilatus 13:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. We have extensive documentation for airports, so why not train stations. - SimonP 14:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, for same reason we have airport codes. Trollderella 16:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per Trollderella. Unfocused 17:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Unoriginal Research. D. G. 23:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, verifiable. JYolkowski // talk 00:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. They serve the same purpose as the airport ones. I do think that the names for the lists should be similar to the conventions used in the airport lists, which still need some cleanup. List of airports: N is badly named since it is really by IATA codes which you can get to with the nav article List of airports by IATA code. Vegaswikian 06:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, though I wouldn't mind a redirect to List of Amtrak stations. --SPUI (talk) 23:35, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • re-direct to List of Amtrak stations until this article is fixed. Currently, almost every line of this article has a bad-link, no useful links exist, and no user should stumble on this. However, clearly many here have shown an interest in fixing this, and think the content should be saved, so I request we re-direct for now, and when somebody wishes to fix this, they can undo the re-direct, fix the problems, and have a functioning article. --rob 23:50, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nominator. --Metropolitan90 23:37, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of dance wikibooks

Wikipedia:is not a how-to guide.

• Delete as mere list of external links. (unsigned comment from anon)
• Delete Wikipedia is not a repository of links, even to other WikiMedia projects. -Satori ^(talk) 22:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Satori CDC (talk) 22:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Satori--Rogerd 06:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Speedy Delete. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 11:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of people who have been diagnosed with HIV/AIDS

Probably hoax, Delete  --  W  P Talk 09:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

speedied. posting a list of non-famous persons and claiming they have AIDS is vandalism. - Nunh-huh 09:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS. Numerically, I have 19d-10k, which is fractionally below the two-thirds level, and I don't think any of the editors need discounting. Nevertheless, I'm inclined to give more weight to WP:NOT than to "oh but we have other articles [that are just as bad/good]". Driving everything down to the lowest level of quality is not the way to conduct an AfD debate. We should seek to haul standards up, not search for the weakest article and drive standards down towards to it. Anyway, that's too personal a reason to bend the threshold here, so I'll call a very close no consensus. If this is renominated in future, I do not think this AfD serves as a "keep because was kept before" argument. -Splash^talk 02:19, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of websites

Unmaintanble. There are millions of websites out there and at least a few thousand notable ones Delete --JAranda | watz sup 20:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep we have Lists of films, List of books, List of albums, and even List of people. All of those are vastly longer, and are well maintained. - SimonP 20:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep "This is a list of websites that are famous, notable, or extremely popular and 'for which Wikipedia articles exist." Wikipedia is not a link farm, but it can and should list the most common/popular/notable websites that have articles in wikipedia. If you want to make and apply a new category called Category:Notable websites that would be ok with me but listing them on this page is easier to adjuducate when spammers try to post non-notable sites. MPS 20:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • and you could subcat things like Category: Search engine websites and Category:Social networking websites. You could also make one called Category:Possible spam websites and then it would be easier to search for them. MPS 05:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • To clarify: My vote is still Keep. People can do the category thing if they want another way to look at websites, tbu this list has cash value and I think it should stay. Isn't there some policy like wikipedia:redundancy is good? MPS 15:01, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. --MacRusgail 21:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Wikipedia is not a directory... and, what is the purpose of the page. Would anyone even use that? -- WB 22:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• While I agree that if the list sticks to websites that are notable and already have coverage on Wikipedia, then it might be useful, and certainly within Wikipedia guidelines. However, I know that's not how it's going to go -- this page will get spammed with every website address known to man. Also, I am not sure if a list form will add anything that isn't in an article. Therefore, I'll say delete and create category. (That is, if there isn't a category already. I haven't been able to find one in the 3 minutes I spent looking.) --Jacquelyn Marie 22:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC) I have changed my vote to a weak keep due to the precedent that has been outlined below; I still suggest that a category be created, however, because if it does turn out that this becomes a spammer's paradise, then we have something to fall back upon. --Jacquelyn Marie 19:26, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Why should users have to guess what websites are about? Kappa 23:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• keep, like list of films etc. Kappa 23:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete and create category (if necessary) per Jacquelyn. —Wahoofive (talk) 23:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I agree with those above me. If we have lists for films, books, etc., there's no reason why we shouldn't have a list of websites. Keep in mind that this is not a list of every web site out there. It is a list of those that have Wikipedia articles already, which is much smaller and more maintainable. --Cswrye 17:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm going to make one more attempt to justify why this page should be kept. While I do think that categories are great, they are not always a substitute for a listing page. For an example, I will point out the list of dances. This page simply lists each dance under certain headings with a short description of each one. If I want to see a list of dances, I can simply go to this page. This cannot be done in the category system. Because of the many subcategories that exist and branch off mulitiple times, I would have to go through many different pages to really see a list of all of the dances. Seeing them all at once is much more convenient. Furthermore, it is nice to be able to see a short description of a topic before going to the page. Wikipedia can be slow sometimes, and traveling from topic to topic can be annoying. A list would prevent that. Finally, I don't think that spam would be a major problem. This list is already quite extensive, and I haven't seen any spam on it yet. Even if there were, many pages get spammed routinely, and they have all been handled pretty well. I don't think that spam is a satisfactory argument against this until it makes the page virtually unusable. I know that I have found this list to be quite helpful, and I would be disappointed to see it go. --Cswrye 17:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • By the way, although I do think that this page should be kept, I agree that a category should be created either way. --Cswrye 23:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete and create category. Although the abovementioned lists are good for wikipedia, I just have a bad feeling that this list is going to become very unmaintainable, very quickly. As soon as the more unscrupulous members of the Wikipedia community find this list, every man and his dog will be putting up personal websites, spamming links, etc, and it is going to be the mother of all headaches to keep under control. Also, every website on this list will also have a category on it, and when the non-notable websites are deleted, the redlink will remain, making it easier for someone else to come along and do the same. At least with a category, once an article is deleted, the link int the category will likewise vanish. Saberwyn 00:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete; since an article is required to be listed, categories will be fine. tregoweth 00:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Why should users have to guess what websites are about?
    • If the website is notable enough, users shouldn't need to guess what the website is about. Saberwyn 02:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Right, we should only have articles for websites that everyone has heard of. Kappa 17:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete & create category as per Jacquelyn Marie. As for Lists of films, List of books, List of albums, List of people, etc.; they have categories already — by date, by occupation, etc. ~⌈Markaci⌋ 2005-10-18 T 01:13:23 Z
• Delete and categorize If a reader comes to WP looking for a specific site, they'll search for that site. If a website isn't notable enough to have its own article, should it really be in a list? Those sites that do have their own article should be placed in a category. Carbonite | Talk 02:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete and categorize This list would be an absolute nightmare to maintain. You might as well hang a sign on it that says "Spam me!". Denni☯ 04:29, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. An article like this deserves a separate wiki.  freshgavin^TALK   05:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, utterly unmaintainable. Categorization is fine, hopefully by hierarchical categories. MCB 06:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Weak keep. The list has external links to the websites, something which a category cannot do, although it is somewhat questionable if we want all those links. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:44, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Agree that categorisation presents no problem. Dottore So 09:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Lists like this are magnets for vandals who love to add their own sites to these lists. It then encourages them to write articles on them. AFD and CSD are overloaded enough without such encouragement. The potential harm this does outweighs any good (and I can't even imagine much what that would be). -R. fiend 16:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: lists and categories are complementary. Categories are self-maintaining, updating when articles are added to or removed from them; they are incapable of displaying more than a list of article titles. Lists must be maintained manually; however as described above, they are capable of displaying explanatory text next to each entry, and are amenable to more flexible styles of display. Lists are not confined to simply sorting entries alphanumerically: entries can be grouped according to appropriate subject areas. This must be written down somewhere, but I can't recall right now… HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 17:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • It's discussed at Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and series boxes. Kappa 17:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep. But rename/redirect to List of popular websites. -Andrew 06:16, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Category:Websites and its children are better suited for this. Flowerparty■ 06:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete WAY too broad, and way too hard to navigate and/or load if it's to be anywhere near complete: how many pages would be required for the poor user to click through? And as for Kappa's weird hypothetical user who must know before clicking the article link, it's far easier just to click and find out than to drill through page after page for a 3-word description. --Calton | Talk 06:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • So it's easier to click on page after page of links instead of reading 3 word descriptions? Kappa 09:32, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I agree with those above me. I think many people have got confused about the purpose of the page. Its not about listing down all the websites, but listing only those for which there is dedicated Wiki page entry. Also, if we have lists for films, books, etc., there's no reason why we shouldn't have a list of websites. Again, keep in mind that this is not a list of every web site out there. It is a list of those that have Wikipedia articles already, which is much smaller and more maintainable. -- Ninad 15:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per Ninad. Very broad, but seems to have precedents. -- SCZenz 00:55, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Saberwyn. --Metropolitan90 23:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

• Strong keep. Agree with Simon and Phil. A very useful list. Academic Challenger 07:52, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete WP:NOT a web directory. Unmaintainble and liable to be POV. Tony Bruguier 04:03, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per the WP:NOT arguments. Make a category if you want. --Jtalledo (talk) 23:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Lacks the additional categorization that makes the film and other lists useful- in the VfD for list of films, it was pointed out that the category system didn't yet have all of these features, but at the moment this list doesn't either. Category is more maintainable and easier to police. --Clay Collier 22:34, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was no consensus, but do not keep it in the current form. I compiled a summary at the bottom. Many want to have the article deleted, some want to merge part of it in YTMND (but some are opposed to this out of fear that the list will grow too large again), almost all want to shorten it. I suggest that the article is cut drastically; you can point to this discussion as justification. Perhaps merge it, that's a normal editing choice. – Jitse Niesen (talk) 23:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of YTMND fads

Please note that many of the keep votes are first edits by ISP addresses.—Gaff ^ταλκ 23:54, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Or meatpuppets -Mysekurity (talk • contribs)

Delete. Unmaintainable and unencyclopedic list of popular fads copied from a website that lists internet fads. Why are we replicating YTMND content here? Some of the items on the list also contain or contained attack-bio content. I don't want to be insenstive to the internet culture, but this stuff does not impress me as the kind of thing that will be of interest 5 years from now, much less 100 years from now. —Gaff ^{talk 23:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Where does this list end? Really, it is like a best of YTMND that may as well be on a blogger site for all the notability that it contains. This would actually not be a bad place and anyone who wants can put up their favourite YTMND "fad." A subjective definition that carries with it no significance.—Gaff ^ταλκ 03:39, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

The internets' legacy consists of every aspect and effectivness of events on culture, YTMND is a reflection of that. You lose! Good day sir. RKZ KEEP

• Sorry RKZ, but I fail to understand your argument.—Gaff ^ταλκ 07:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• What he meant to say was You LOSE! Good DAY, sir! and that you are an idiot, thanks for playing. (unsigned personal attack by User: 131.247.164.205)

• Thanks for clarifying.—Gaff ^ταλκ 00:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete/Merge with YTMND. I love YTMND and the site, but I've been having mixed feelings about this being an article. It is way to big to maintain, and really doesn't deserve this much stuff--very few of those things have actually reached true fad level. I liked it better when there was a small list on the main YTMND article page, rather than this sprawling bohemouth of disorganized fads. It is true that these sites have reached a certain level of notablity (see ytmndtakesovergoogle.ytmnd.com/), but few of those mentioned are actual fads. I like the text at the top of this page, and feel it should be incorperated into the main article, as with a few of the actual big fads, and a small mention about things such as the Tiger merging fads. If YTMND wants its own wiki, it can set one up. -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{01:55, 18 October 2005 (UTC)}

• WikiBestofYTMND sounds great to me. I just don't see how this stuff is encyclopedic. But then again, I am not super savvy on internet culture. I read somewhere about wikipedia wanting to focus on what will be important 100 yrs from now. This stuff seems like the filler that the internet is already overflowing with. I'm not saying that some of it isn't funny, but it seems to me that wikipedia has an opportunity to be a powerful voice in the internet community and to raise things to a higher standard. Maybe this could be in BJAODN. However, the sheer size of the thing and that fact many of these are funny jokes of the moment that some kid in Peoria who knows something about Flash programming put together to impress his friends suggests that they are flashes in the pan. Sorry for going on like that...—Gaff ^ταλκ 07:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Would you mind sending me the link to that site? I fail to find it by googling any like results. This would not be appropriate for BJAODN (not really that much of a joke), and yes, the stuff is notable to those who like YTMND, but many are not actually fads in their own right, and it's way too out-of hand currently-[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{03:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Smerge, per Mysekurity. I agree with his/her reasoning completely. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 04:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

For the record, I'm a he :) -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{03:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Pardon me for asking, but for it to be a fad, don't you actually have to do something? Wear a hat with a flower sticking out? Buy a pet rock? Solve a Rubik's cube? A song can't be a fad unless you sing it. A quote sureashell can't be a fad. Terri Schiavo a fad? Surely you jest! Delete this silliness. Denni☯ 04:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Sure, if you go by the normal definition of "fad"... which we're not, as you can easily tell by actually reading the article. Fad here means a popular topic for the YTMNDs to cover, not real fads. --Shadow Hog 00:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per nomination. Sandstein 14:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep or extremely weak merge There is already enough information about the fads in the main article. The whole point of the fads article was for stuff that was not appropriate for the main article. Celerityfm 21:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Sure, but are you willing to erase the stuff that's clearly NOT an actual fad? Which are the big fads really? Something that's had 3 sites devoted to it and has never been on the top 15 is not a fad, while something like Gay Fuel is. Look no further than any compilation YTMND. I think the best place for this would be either a YTMND wiki or a SMALL piece in wikibooks. -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{03:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)}

Thats why I voted Keep! A YTMND wiki doesn't sound like a bad idea actually :P Wikibooks works for me too-- my point is that the list should remain seperate from the main article :) Celerityfm 13:48, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Well sure, I guess wikibooks would be less noticable, and less likely to be vandalized, but in any event, I think it should be transwikied there. If this vote fails, which it might, I'm going to nominate it for transwiking. -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{18:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Strong delete or extremely weak merge. For those who question whether notability is an inclusion criteria, this should be Exhibit #1. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:05, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• To reellaborate, the internet is a vast collection of assorted tomfoolery that will not die because a bunch of soccor moms disapprove of what YTMNDs; fads offer. Schivacos' death HAS been a source of moraleless humour on sites beyond YTMND, so they are no special case. YTMNDs' "fads" are self contained within thier own community, however, their community has been gradually expanding into mainstream noteriaty, one may even suggest that YTMND ITSELF is an Internet fad, not quite outperforming other contraversial sites such as say, a Newgrounds, but it may very soon eclipse it. And indeed, some of the sicker humour involved (be it about Schiavo) is just further proof that not everyone on the internet looks at the community as one that needs moral direction. If people are trying to delete something that dares to find humour in tragedy, you wither need to live a little, take a joke, or start hunting down and delete every parody site in the past, the present, the future. Take a damn joke. I'll be saving this information to put straight back up if it IS deleted, YTMNDs' fads have a place here, and its' survived deletion before, if a merge is what is required to sustain its' lifespan, so be it, but its' not a question of "should we keep it", its' a matter of "when we keep it" RKZ KEEP

Yeah, there's no denying it's great stuff, but the question is whether or not it's encyclopedic. At the very least it needs to be cleaned up, but the inborn nature of the article means that it's prone to every shmoe who's created a site to add theirs in. Stuff like Schiavo and "What is Love", the various stapler parodies, Bannana Phone, Yakkety Sax, and the numerous others are worth noting to YTMND lovers, but the question is; are these really notable to people who don't know about the site? Are you honestly saying that people who have no idea about YTMND would want to read such a huge page? If nothing else, it needs to be condensed, and I love the idea of transwiking it to another project (Mediawiki or otherwise). -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{03:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)}

KEEP this page, it serves as a handy, up to date reference for the many fads that we come across on the web. In my opinion Wikipedia is excellent for this sort of thing; regularly updated lists of things that may confuse people, yet are ultimately harmless. If you don't like this page, don't visit it. Problem solved. - CharlieA

• Transwiki. There has been a lot of effort for this that does not justify for it to be just deleted. As much as I appreciate this sort of list, its not really appropriate for an encyclopaedia either. Its not common knowledge enough. I think its best it is moved to Wikibooks. -- Zondor 22:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, or very, very weak merge - this article exists solely because it was too long for the YTMND article to begin with, but was still worth noting. Wikibooks might be a good alternative, though. (And the paragraph on fads should be merged with the main article, but everything else probably shouldn't be - hence "very, very weak".) --Shadow Hog 00:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Again, are you saying that this is worthy of its own article in current form? I'd like to see it be majorly cleaned up at the very least, but I don't think it's needed in an encyclopedia form, and thus, should be transwikied to an appropriate--or closely appropriate--project. -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{03:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Merge - This list is too lengthy for what it is trying to serve. This article should be merged with YTMND article, cleaned up, and shortened down to common music and other common fads. Other so-called "fads" have been used only a handful of times, if even that many, and are then forgotten. Why they are even put up here eludes me. I agree with much of what Mysekurity says about this. Zig 02:54, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Transwiki. As per Zondor. --ThatNateGuy 03:41, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, don't transwiki. User:Zoe|^(talk) 03:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete nn.  Grue  16:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep It's referenced often. --Zeality 19:37, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

By what, exactly? What Links Here shows very few notable links (iPod silhoutte being one of the few exceptions, but can be easily deleted or redirected to YTMND). I challenge Zeality, Iggy Koopa, and anon 69.141.22.65 to provide a reason why this is a good reference for an encyclopedia. Believe me, I love YTMND, but this just isn't the right place for a list like this. A transwiki to Wikibooks or a setup of a YTMND wiki seems fair and reasonable, and I urge you all to change your votes. Thank you, [[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{00:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Keep It's a good reference. Iggy Koopa 20:35, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep As Iggy said, good refrence. --69.141.22.65 23:59, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Wikipedia seems to be a dumping ground for YTMND to define what it is. Wikipedia is not a free host or webspace provider (www.ytmnd.com/info/about.html about page). Wikipedia is not a propaganda machine (propaganda, advocacy, self-promotion, advertising). Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (news reports). Wikipedia is not a dictionary (of fads). Wikipedia is not an instruction manual (on adding new fad entries). See also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. -- Zondor 02:58, 20 October 2005 (UTC) -- Zondor 04:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Hehe. I think it's funny that Ole Max referred to us (as the about page is "under construction). Good job Wikipedians! -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{04:00, 20 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Delete This information may be interesting, informative, or entertaining... but it does not belong in Wikipedia. (Or at least 90% of it). Create a fan site or put it in YTMND.com forums. ConCuu 03:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as unverifiable. What constitutes a "fad"? Who decides? The talk page says "something that has been repeated many times", but what constitutes "many"? --Carnildo 21:44, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete or, if you must, merge to parent article. -Sean Curtin 22:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge or keep. Trollderella 23:07, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep 24.0.130.58
• Keep and trim. ShadowMan1od 03:37, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Strong delete or weak merge echoing Andrew Lenahan Dottore So 13:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep or extremely weak merge echoing [[User:Celerityfm|Celerityfm] --Viewtiful Zoidberg 04:03, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

It should be noted that the above user has only two edits as of the time of this posting. -[[User:Mysekurity|Mysekurity]] ^{[[additions | e-mail]]} _{00:33, 24 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Keep - Most of the information is very useful. I use this page often. BadgetSmuck --
• Keep notable enough for me. Youngamerican 02:03, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep It can't be waisting space, and clearly enough people care about it that it has been expanded to its current size. Merging doesn't make sense, becaus it's too large, that is why it was created. Just keep it. And to weather any of the listed phenomenon every became fads is realy dependent on what you consider a fad. There is no reason to delete this article. - Mr.owen 11:50 10/22/10
• Keep -JF
• Delete as forumcruft. NatusRoma 00:11, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge it with the main article, and cut down the list of fads. It has some usefulness in giving readers an idea on what some of the fads "ytmnd" has, but it solves no purpose as a separate list of fads, other than showing what are basically general internet fads being made into ytmnd sites at the time of said "fad". (Yes I did use the word fad too much in that comment xD) Blightsoot 20:06, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
• This is what should happen: The information relating to YTMND fads should be kept, and the article should be renamed to "YTMND fad". Then, the list itself is deleted. The list at first was good, but then the list went out of control. The list should die. The list requires a death sentence. The information, however, needs to be acquitted for murder charges. It did no killing. It's innocent I tell ya! —MESSEDROCKER (talk) 20:59, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep/strong merge. This list is useful beyond words and I would hate to see it go, but in a more serious matter I find that having an index of the fads on YTMND shows how the subculture has developed and flourished. That being said, the list should definitely be kept (clear out redundant/unproliferated fads), and while I would like most of all for it to stay as its own article I would accept a merge as well. Eszett, 16:24, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. It's useful info for anyone interested in YTMND, although it could stand some trimming. The Invisible Hand 21:18, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Heh, talk about an understatement... :P --Shadow Hog 22:09, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Summary of opinions

Numbers refer to approximate edit counts at the time of nomination, users with no numbers have a lot of edits, anonymous opinions or account registers after nomination not included.

• User:Gaff: Nominator, delete, unmaintainable, unencyclopaedic.
• User:Denni: Delete, silliness.
• User:Zondor: Delete, not encyclopaedic, but much effort has gone into it, so transwiki.
• User:Zoe: Delete.
• User:Grue: Delete, not notable.
• User:Carnildo: Delete, unverifiable.
• User:NatusRoma: Delete, forumcruft.
• User:Sandstein (250): Delete, per nomination.
• User:ThatNateGuy (25): Delete and transwiki, per Zondor.
• User:Concuu (10): Delete, does not belong on WP.
• User:Starblind: Delete, not notable (second choice: merge).
• User:Gtrmp: Delete, second choice: merge.
• User:Dottoreso: Delete, second choice: merge, per Starblind.
• User:Mysekurity: Delete/merge, mixed feelings, list is too big to maintain, few of the fads are notable.
• User:A Man In Black: Smerge, per Mysekurity (no idea what smerge means, so I guess it's delete/merge).
  • Shorten and merge, per User:R. fiend's user page Sorry to edit a closed AFD, but clarification helps. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 23:22, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
• User:Blightsoot: Merge and shorten.
• User:Zig973 (40): Merge, list should be shortened.
• User:Trollderella: Merge or keep.
• User:Shadow Hog: Keep, perhaps merge, transwiki would be a good alternative.
• User:Esszet (180): Keep, second option: merge.
• User:Youngamerican: Keep, notable enough.
• User:Messedrocker: Keep, rename, delete the fads and leave only the intro.
• User:Celerityfm (350): Keep, but main concern seems to be to keep the list out of YTMND.
• User:ShadowMan1od (260): Keep and trim.
• User:Zeality (90): Keep, it's referenced often.
• User:Dr. R.K.Z (40): keep, no clear reason.
• User:Iggy Koopa (25): Keep, good reference.
• User:BadgetSmuck (5), not logged in but I assume it's him: Keep, useful.

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lo Yong Po

Was listed for speedy under A7, but it does sort of assert his notability. If anyone can verify, cleanup and wikify. Otherwise just delete. Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 18:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• It was me who listed it for speedy, but I agree with Angr: clean up if it can be saved, else delete. Stephen Turner 19:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unless verified. I note in passing that I have been unable to find any accounts of the Singapore Airlines Flight 117 incident that name any of the commandos involved. Haeleth 13:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was transwiki to b:Cookbook. – Jitse Niesen (talk) 21:48, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lucia bullar

Wikipedia is not a cookbook. Also, "lucia bullar" only draws 153 hits on Google, so I'm unconvinced of the food's notability, even if there were an actual article here. Colin Kimbrell 21:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 21:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• So where do people go to archive their recipies?  freshgavin^TALK   05:33, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Myself, I use index cards. Colin Kimbrell 12:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Recipes belong in the the cookbook, not the encyclopedia. Transwiki. —Cryptic (talk) 15:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Merge and redirect to Lycopodium. --GraemeL ^(talk) 13:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lycopods

This article is redundant to the article on the genus Lycopodium. I have merged the information from Lycopods into Lycopodium. I'm not sure what the best way to handle this is, but perhaps a redirect should be left in place to get people from lycopod(s) to the Lycopodium article. —HorsePunchKid→龜 02:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• speedy keep. Thank you for doing merging; this is a thankless task that we are way behind on. After merging, we almost always keep the redirect, since we need to keep around the history, and because the existence of duplicate articles strongly suggests the usefulness of such a redirect. So, this should certainly be kept. (Also, as a matter of process, we handle the deleting of redirects at RfD rather than AfD). — brighterorange (talk) 03:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Redirected. Thanks for merging. D. G. 03:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Thanks for clarifying the process. I was never very familiar with the deletion process, but it seems like ever since this AfD overhaul, the amount of text describing the process has increased dramatically. I gues this is what I was looking for. :) —HorsePunchKid→龜 03:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:50, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

• No it wasn't. The article was redirected to Madonna discography but the AfD wasn't properly closed. The real result is REDIRECT. — JIP | Talk 07:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Madonna album covers and chart statistics

Redundant with Madonna discography. Essentially a reprise of the album section with pictures added. FuriousFreddy 01:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Dupe. Per Freddy. D. G. 03:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete It's a worthless article compared to Madonna discography. While the juxtaposition of the album art and track listing is pretty nice, I think that the discography article is just fine. There are articles on each album, anyway. No need to combine that material into one page. Comics 16:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete/Merge. There's already Madonna discography. This is defintly redundant. If there's any information here that is on Madonna discography it should be moved over. -Haon 21:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Jkelly 01:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete, unverifiable. – Jitse Niesen (talk) 22:07, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Manji hirani

This "article" has almost nothing to it. It has about one line of what might actually be considered article content, but that fails to explain context or make a good argument for notability. It also contains a notice that "This page is coming soon." It contains a link to a page that does not appear to mention "Manji Hirani" and it is signed and timestamped by User:Hirani disciple, whose only two edits relate to this article. Delete, along with accompanying image. Joel7687 09:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Let me just tell you this article will have a lot more info on it and there is a group of us working on it, just give us some time and let the fruits rippen.

• Delete. There is no reason to "pre-reserve" Wikipedia articles just to write "COMING SOON!". Wikipedia Is Not Paper. When you have enough material about this Manji hirani guy you can write the article from scratch. — JIP | Talk 11:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The few Google hits don't seem to be related to him.--Kross | Talk 11:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as non-verifiable, unless his disciples can provide some references. Haeleth 14:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. --Optichan 15:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - already speedy deleted once before. ...en passant! 09:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Question to the author - The link goes to the page of a Mahant Swami Maharaj, who is somebody in the Swaminarayan sect. What is the connection between him and Manji Hirani ?

Could not get a single decent hit for Hirani, which is unusual for such godmen Tintin 23:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Tintin 22:26, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

We will have more info on him soon please give some time

I have created the basic version of the site in due time it will be changed to the advance version. User: Pramukh Swami 16:41 GMT 17/10/05

Manji Bapa has now possessed unlimited supernatural powers. He was able to see and hear things many miles away, he knew the past, future, and present, he could make impossible tasks possible, and he raised to great spiritual heights for everyone that came into his contact.

• Do you have facts to back up that statement? --Optichan 18:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete User:Nichalp/sg 15:07, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] McMaster Quad Rivals

Vanity, vandalism, delete. --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 22:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - not notable --MacRusgail 22:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, nn, trivial, college hijinks. MCB 06:24, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete NN --Rogerd 06:19, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 07:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Meat Club

NN club. Can be a patent nonsense. 202.156.6.60 17:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. It doesn't even say where the "meat club" is based. --MacRusgail 17:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The first rule of Meat Club is don't talk about Meat Club. MCB 21:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Vanity nn. *drew 11:43, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS. — JIP | Talk 07:56, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mercenary (band)

nn band Gator1 14:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. - Gator1 14:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Weak Keep Appears to meet WP:MUSIC per a European tour they've done [19]. I'm not all that knowledgeable about European indie labels, so if someone credible can vouch for "Avalon", "Candlelight", or "Cargo" being important indie labels that might also meet WP:MUSIC.--Isotope23 15:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Candelight is reasonalby well-known. EG Emperor was on that label. Spearhead 21:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the info Spearhead.--Isotope23 13:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete - nn, and nn indy labels. "Shouts, Growls, Screams" was funny though. --MacRusgail 17:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - notable enough to be on wp; they are currently signed to Century Media which is a major metal record company and they have an entry on allmusic as well -- it meets WP:MUSIC [20] Spearhead 21:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep per Spearhead; article needs to mention these points of notability, though. Haeleth 00:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was Delete. Voice of All ^{@|Esperanza|E M} 04:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] metastupid

This article has been speedily deleted several times. Its various incarnations have satisfied criteria for speedy deletion A1, A3, and A6. However, the current incarnation doesn't match any speedy deletion criterion. It is, however, a stub article about a non-subject (the title being an adjective not a noun) with no possibility of expansion, that is original research with a non-word as its title to boot. Uncle G 17:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as per nom. Also, this is only a dict def even if yiou accept the coined word. Perhaps the page should be protected after deletion this time. DES ^(talk) 18:15, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Metadelete. neodicdef.  BD2412 ^talk 18:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete nonword --pgk^(talk) 18:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete and protect against recreation. -- Kjkolb 20:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and Encourage research / expansion of idea contained within. Possibly create meta-stupidity to qualify as noun and set metastupid to redirect page as per policy? So many resources are spent on meta-stupidity, that awareness and understanding of this should be fostered by spending time working towards a great article on such topic.-- Secretlondon 21:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• BJAODN this version. It made me giggle. Obviously not for Wikipedia, though. --Jacquelyn Marie 22:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Ryan Norton ^{T | @ | C} 23:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• I hate to throw this away because it so epitomizes how I feel about some of the articles I find here. I'm with Jacquelyn Marie in that it MUST have a home on BJAODN. Denni☯ 03:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Dottore So 09:52, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. The fact that this isn't a valid speedy candidate annoys me. --Ashenai (talk) 09:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. Stormie 04:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mew Mew Alliance

nn fansite. - 202.156.6.68 22:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. 200 members doesn't make it notable. Owen× ☎ 20:58, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 08:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Grainger

Looks like a complete hoax. Google finds no Michael Grainger in the Newcastle United F.C. line up, and there are definitely no 1853 players there. Sjakkalle (Check!) 12:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete looks like a hoax. It's funny though. CambridgeBayWeather 12:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I find it hard to believe a 152-year-old would be playing in the Newcastle United F.C. — JIP | Talk 13:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. I wish I could play that well at that age. --Optichan 16:14, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. His favoured position is doggy style = joke article. Punkmorten 21:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 08:03, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Muckyboots

Blog vanity. No Alexa rank [21], no backwards links in Google [22]. The author of this article also added the link to Blog and Template:Conservatism. Rhobite 16:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete nn --MacRusgail 17:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per nomination. Eddie.willers 18:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Do not delete* I found Muckyboots on Google [23] (preceding unsigned comment by 68.160.5.17 (talk · contribs) 21:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC))
  • I'm afraid that only shows that Google knows about the blog, not that anyone else is writing about it, which would be one prerequisite for inclusion. Haeleth 12:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete, per nom. Jkelly 01:35, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Haeleth 12:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. -Splash^talk 02:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Muhafazah

A duplication of governorate; merge. – Timwi 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep and merge — I think this request is bit odd. I believe that we should have an article called Muhafazah, but, if its content is the lacklustre list it is now, the content should be moved to Governorate and the first page redirect to it. The proper procedure for this. I believe, is cut and paste, rather than page deletion. One problem, different countries have different official translations of muhafazah: they might not be officially called govenorates in all places. --Gareth Hughes 17:17, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • If the word has several meanings, then it can well be a disambiguation page. I tried the copy & paste bit, and I got shouted at for it, hence my nomination here. – Timwi 00:13, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
    • who shouted where? If you refer to your admin-rights misuse in deleting Template:Arab subdivision without prior notice to anyone nor without tagging it, than I think you mix something. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 21:21, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as guberniya was kept. Of course extend. Problem with subdivision translations into english is that they are different from country to country. the four articles wilayah, mintaqah, imarah and muhafah give a short overview about these arab words. This would be lost if merged with provinces, regions, states etc. And because the translations are different from country to country this would bring some wilayah to one article some others to another. Interwiki links will not work. At the end: the terms are official, for some we may never find an official translation. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 19:46, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Helpful to maintain inter-navigation among Arab subdivision types.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 21:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

• Question Delete would mean no redirect? If not, than why is it not a simple "merge" process? Timwi himself said he is pro merge. Why does he put it on VfD? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 21:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Because when I did the merge, you reverted me, Schlaumeier. — Timwi 18:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:34, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple Solutions

I understand that this is a non-profit organization working for the public good, but is this not also covered under the no advertising policy, especially the banner ad? Runnerupnj 03:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

• Agreed, it's all self promotion. Delete. Freshgavin 01:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Original Research. D. G. 02:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom /Rjayres 04:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete I think an organization doing research on multiple sclerosis, or heavily influencing what research is done, may well be notable, but they seem to be just one of many local groups raising money; and don't really seem to play any role in decision making about how the money is used. --rob 04:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete should have nominated it myself InvictaHOG 16:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. — JIP | Talk 08:04, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Music history

Does not contain much information that is not duplicated in the main article History of music --Nlu 05:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Make it a redirect. -- Robert Weemeyer 05:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• History of music clearly states, twice, that music history is a distinct academic study. There is a lengthy discussion of the split on Talk:Music history. And, in any case, Wikipedia:duplicate articles is along the hall, three doors down. Uncle G 12:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per Uncle G. --Allen3 ^talk 13:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep as per Uncle G, although admittedly this article could use some expansion. For example, when did music history start being studied as an academic discipline? —Wahoofive (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as above. Trollderella 16:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep per above. Perhaps stick a cleanup tag on it. --Jacquelyn Marie 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep -- JLaTondre 00:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 02:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mvelopes Personal

Advertisment, no notability established. --S.K. 17:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom --MacRusgail 18:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --pgk^(talk) 18:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 08:06, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MWorks

New company vanity bio. delete Has been speedied a couple times, as was taken verbatim (ie copyvio) from company website. Now reposted, but appears to be nn company advert. Posted under username with same name as company. —Gaff ^{talk 06:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)}

• Comment: I speedied the original version of this article under WP:CSD A8 because it was an obvious copyvio. Those problems have now been solved (the article's been rewritten). The only issue that's at stake in this AfD is whether the subject of the article is encyclopedic or not. --MarkSweep✍ 06:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete: it's not encyclopedic, it's consumer information ("Robust UI, intuitive and consistent for customers"). We aren't told why the product is notable, its impact in computing and why it is different than similar products. This appears to be a very recently produced product, so it should be widely used, get lots of media attention or be a breakthrough to have an article. iPod would be an example. -- Kjkolb 09:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete; still an advert written in marketingspeak. MCB 18:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete. I speedily deleted it, too. --Merovingian (t) (c) (e) 05:47, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep. --Celestianpower ^háblame 17:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MyFamily.com, Inc. and related pages

This, and the other pages it links to, appear to be advertising. Wikipedia is not an advertising vehicle or a web directory. If this company is notable enough for an article, I suggest deleting the linked per-site pages, and consolidating all mention of them into a single non-advert article. -- The Anome 19:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep significant non-profit resource. But could do with history etc, and Mormon connection, e.g. Mormons do family research a lot partly because of their belief in sealing dead relatives, and baptising them. --MacRusgail 21:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • There is no Mormon connection. The company isn't even owned by Mormons (or, at least all of the owners aren't Mormons), and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has 0% stake in the company. Even if there are Mormons who are shareholders in the company, that doesn't make the company have a "Mormon connection." Given the number of subscribers they have (over 850,000 on Ancestry.com alone, according to one article I read) chances are there are many more non-Mormon subscribers than Mormon subscribers, especially since you can use Ancestry.com for free at any of the Mormon family history centers around the world. If people want to learn about Mormons, they can go to the Mormon page and read up, but there doesn't need to be a link on this page. I'm not sure what you mean by "non-profit resource," though. There's nothing in the article that says anything about being non-profit. --nihon 02:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Also, I don't know any history of the company since they have nothing on their site. Perhaps you could add that. --nihon 03:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

The page has been significantly expanded now. All of the per-site pages have been combined into one and the old pages are now redirect pages pointing to the main page. Since your whole objection to the page is moot now, The Anome, I suggest removing the afd from the page. Since there is no "Mormon connection," as MacRusgail implies, I don't see that as any reason to keep the page marked as afd, for the reasons stated above. --nihon 06:47, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

• Not so fast. I say Delete This is advertising dressed up as a pseudo-encyclopedic entry. Note the Controversy discussion: As with many large commercial websites, there are some individuals who dislike the policies and business practices of MyFamily.com and its subsidiaries. There are some sites that catalog these stories, though it should be noted that MyFamily.com rarely posts anything in defense of its policies on the following websites. As such, the information found on these sites may be skewed to only one point of view, and may not contain all of the facts in any give case. Also, including technical support numbers is also highly suspect. This is: POV, advertising, and using WP to give these sites objective credibility. If the content changes to reflect a more critical evaluation of the services and site (e.g. the Mormon connexion, or lack thereof), I will change my vote since it is a notable site. Dottore So 09:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • This is a collaborative site, so I shouldn't be the only one working on the article. It would be useful if some of you would actually change the article rather than taking the easy route of bashing it and doing nothing about any of the "problems" you mention. I find it absurd that one person is doing all the work on this article, and that it can be so arbitrarily marked for deletion rather than one or more of you actually putting forth a little effort to make it fit your views of neutrality. The Ancestry.com article was around long before I had anything to do with it, and I modified it because it was very negative. So now that it's basically neutral, you're blasting it because of that? Also, please name me even one large company that doesn't have it's own cadre of disgruntled customers. If you think it should be rewritten some other way, please do so. I just wanted to make sure people were aware of the "anti-Ancestry" sites. Feel free to add some critical evalutation yourself as I don't use many of their services. --nihon 15:29, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Any other comments regarding this article? It has been modified quite a bit since The Anome originally marked it afd. I've tried to make it an objective article to better fit in with the rest of Wikipedia. If no one else has any objections, I suggest the article be Kept. As Dottore So indicated, it is a notable site (or collection of sites, anyway). --nihon 21:58, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Final call for comments

It's been five days since MyFamily.com, Inc. was marked afd. Since that time, the article has been completely reworked, merged, expanded and combined, incorporating the suggestions found here and addressing all of the concerns raised about the page. There have been no comments made regarding these changes for the last four days (other than me asking if there's still any reason why the page should be deleted). Therefore, I'm proposing that we KEEP the page. I will wait until Monday morning UTC -7. If there are no further objections at that point, I'll go ahead and remove the afd on the main page and consider this matter closed due to lack of any further comments to the contrary. ---nihon 01:22, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] AfD Removed

It's now Monday Morning UTC-7, and as there have been no further comments, I'm following through and removing the AfD from MyFamily.com, Inc.. If you have any other suggestions for improving the article, I recommend posting them on the Talk:MyFamily.com, Inc. page. --nihon 16:38, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NauFal WaFFle, The Blue Album (NauFal WaFFle), Naufal waffle (redirect)

A very elaborate hoax, it seems. 213 Google hits, nothing verifiable about the "artist". Voting to delete. Note to whoever's closing the deletion: If it's deleted, make sure to get the images used on the pages, as well as any links that the original user added to other pages. Ral315 W_S 07:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nom --rob 08:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom --DenisMoskowitz 17:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete agree -- (drini's page|☎) 05:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment/Question: Can (or has) an admin deal/dealt with the causer(s) of this. It seems User:24.11.71.38 and User:HipHopHead88 are one and the same. What's worrying, is the original edits by User:HipHopHead88 were well done (fully wikified article, back links, images uploaded), showing somebody who's been around wikipedia for a bit. It's getting difficult to undo changes to related articles, since they look "plausable" to other users, who make subsequent valid changes, after the fake ones. --rob 05:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete (vanity, more than anything) Euphoria 05:37, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Please tell me why this needs to be deleted. NauFal WaFFle is an established young producer with ties to huge producers such as Dr. Dre & Scott Storch. In one year, he may be one of the top three producers out. Wikipedia has articles on fifteen year old chess masters, what is wrong with a fifteen year old producer who has much more critical acclaim and celebrity potential?
  • Please show a link to an official site of somebody you claim he worked with that verifies this. Or, link to any authoritative source. --rob 02:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: I removed the images from the articles and put them on IFD. Two of them appear to be an unauthorized copy of real album covers which were altered to put this person's name on them. The logo image, probably wasn't a such a big deal, but without a source, it needed to be removed also. --rob 08:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was MERGE to indigenous inhabitant. -Splash^talk 02:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non-indigenous inhabitant

Article seems to be dicdef, possibly POV, and should be merged into Hong Kong article if salvageable MacRusgail 17:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment user has also added Indigenous inhabitant --MacRusgail 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge these two, and keep them. Plenty of opportunity to expand. Trollderella 17:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment if merged, they should be renamed to reflect relevance to HK. --MacRusgail 18:05, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Merge into indigenous inhabitant, and redirect. — Instantnood 16:42, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Okie zone

Political neologism. Marked as a speedy, but definitely isn't. 509 Google hits. No vote, actually can't think of what should be done with this. What are the usual rules on semi-notable neologisms? ~~ N (t/c) 23:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete until notability is established. Sandstein 14:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as NN. --howcheng [ talk • contribs • web ] 15:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete Non notable-Dakota 16:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom.  BD2412 ^talk 21:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ontario university rivalries

Vanity, vandalism, delete --Image:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 21:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete trivial. --rob 21:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - not encyclopedic. And not unusual anyway. Who cares? --MacRusgail 22:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - McGill University isn't even in Ontario. Silly Dan 22:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete trivial, unencyclopedic article. Mindmatrix 00:23, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete for reasons stated above. E Pluribus Anthony 02:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. There is enough material to make this an article, but this isn't it.  freshgavin^TALK   05:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Ahhhhhhhh...such fond memories of chanting "I'd rather be a Gee Gee than a fucking stupid bird" at the Panda Game. But, um, that's not actually encyclopedic. Delete. Bearcat 07:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Paige Henderson

Probably hoax. 0 googles for "paige henderson" "brian wilson". — brighterorange (talk) 19:19, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete unless independently verified. Gamaliel 19:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per Gamaliel --MacRusgail 19:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above arguments. Punkmorten 21:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. — JIP | Talk 08:09, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Paradox sector

This little message board can hardly be called notable. 70.119.8.76 02:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. The small member base, while keeping it slow, also removes some of the possibility for having a Wikipedia article. And Original Research. D. G. 03:05, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• delete good one, DG. ;) I don't agree that this is OR, though. — brighterorange (talk) 03:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Trivial, advertisement-ish vanity page. If we get any indication that it's somehow noteworthy despite its small size, it probably only merits a very brief mentioning on Totse anyway, not its own article. But that seems unlikely. Also, doesn't cite enough sources. :F -Silence 23:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

The website is not trivial... as many people find it each day as a better alternative to some bad messageboards out there. -Dvigour 05:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Hardly its worth is quite obvious it is a younger site in the growing stages. It has alread proved itself noteworthy in it's ability to help the user with technical issues as well as personal.

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The result of the debate was REDIRECT to Order of the Phoenix (disambiguation). — JIP | Talk 08:13, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Phoenix Order

• del Virginia Univ student secret society; nonnotable, nonverifiable. mikka (t) 23:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete unverified. No google hits for "phoenix order" "virginia state university" [24] --best, kevin ···Kzollman | Talk··· 02:54, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. By its very nature is unverifiable so can never know if its not just a hoax.—Gaff ^ταλκ 05:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Maybe redirect to Order of the Phoenix in case someone can't remember the actual name? --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 07:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • A good idea. In fact, in is better to redirect to the (missing) Order of the Phoenix (disambiguation) page, because I did see such references to the Greek order when googling. mikka (t) 07:49, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect per Mikka. Student organizations that exist at only a single school are generally non-notable; this one is nonverifiable, too. --Metropolitan90 23:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was DELETE. -Splash^talk 02:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Project Inspire

British website that hasn't really gotten going yet. As you might guess, there are many projects called "Project Inspire" or "Inspire Project," so googling produces confusing results. If you google the founders, though, you get only Wikipedia mirrors: [25]. Chick Bowen 04:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Vanity self-promotion, sites don't even do anything at this time. /Rjayres 04:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Dottore So 09:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was KEEP. — JIP | Talk 08:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Psychiatric emergency services

NOTE User:V. Molotov, who added this AfD, then removed it 2 days later. You can't unilaterally remove an AfD, it has to run it's course. --Rogerd 05:52, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Delete, not more notable than several other hundreds of similar clinics. If we keep this article - get busy - and start writing articles for all psychiatric clinics in the U.S. ( I personally disagree with High School articles for the same reason).Image:Smilie.gifMolotov (talk)
00:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Note, if this is kept - it needs a thorough clean up. Image:Smilie.gifMolotov (talk)
00:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

It's not one clinic it is a system which is the basis for the delivery of mental health thoughout the United States. This system is also modeled in other counties who look to the United states as a leader in medicine. Can clean it up as needed

Keep This is not about a specific medical center, but about a type of medical center, which there are a large number of. [26]. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 00:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Strong keep -- though are there other names for this sort of thing? (I'm thinking there must be.) If so, they should be included, and redirects made. --Jacquelyn Marie 00:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Keep but cleanup.Image:Smilie.gifMolotov (talk)
  00:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Nothing is worng with the existance of the article, it just needs to be cleaned up. Firestorm 14:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Cleanup, please. Jesse 17:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, As stated before just clean it up. No need to wipe it out. -Haon 21:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, as soon as this has run the normal VfD course. --Rogerd 05:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rebecca Bromwich

Tagged for speedy, and almost an nn-bio, but the claims to publication are claims to notability in my book. Still, a clear delete. — brighterorange (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. Probably vanity, not encyclopedic in any case. Gamaliel 19:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. What Gamaliel said. --Lukobe 19:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Getting published in peer reviewed journals is no big deal. Significance beyond this needs to be shown. Average Earthman 21:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete as nn-bio. MCB 22:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete vanity page --Leo

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The result of the debate was speedied. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rev. Stephen T. Wheeler

Non-notable person. The only Google hits the on "Reverend" pointed to this article and a Palm pilot site. Kross | Talk 11:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete.--Kross | Talk 11:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete - nothing notable in article. --MacRusgail 17:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - nothing about notability in the deletion criteria. Trollderella 18:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

comment see Wikipedia:Deletion of vanity articles, a criteria for speedy deletion--Kewp (t) 21:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Speedy delete - it is an article about a real person that does not assert the importance or significance of the subject. Punkmorten 21:10, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• This should have been a Speedy delete. I trust someone will delete it now that the tag is up. Jkelly 01:29, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete under whatever that CSD criteria is --Carnildo 20:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ricardo19k

Delete as this is self promotion by non-notable person. Bjelleklang - talk 07:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete Probably speedy, unless extensive travelling is a claim of notability. --rob 09:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Speedy delete, no assertion of notability. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 10:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS. — JIP | Talk 08:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rise of Tyrants

I created this article as a relative newbie. The site seems non-notable, with, at the very most, 3,000 members (approximately 900 active) Alexa rank under 500k, and while it has 24,400 Google hits, I'm willing to bet that the results are horribly skewed, given the nature of a game where it is encouraged to get others to click a link for you. Ral315 W_S 01:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• weak delete as non-notable, though this is a decent article. The major downside in keeping it would be encouraging relatives... — brighterorange (talk) 04:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• keep User stats per the home page, 8,711 players registered; 949 players active now. Not exactly World of Warcraft, but covering obscure topics that no one else can is part of why Wikipedia is better than other encyclopedias. Listed at several sites as a "Top 100 free MMORPG", from what I've seen, usually between #30 and #50. Unfocused 17:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - notability is not a deletion criteria. Trollderella 18:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Nonsense. It's a CSD criteria in black and white (A7), and, in practice, it's the reason Wikipedia doesn't have articles about every failed political candidate, every road intersection, every day, every toy, every model of computer, every issue of long-running magazines, etc. There are lots of verifiable, factual things that just aren't encyclopedic material. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 04:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Nonsense, indeed. CSD (A7) states "An article about a real person that does not..." This is not a real person; CSD (A7) does not apply. I participated in the debate to expand CSD, and A7 was deliberately limited to real persons only. If you're going to cite deletion policy, please take care to cite it properly, especially considering that you are an admin and are expected to apply it properly as well. Unfocused 06:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
      • I omitted "in" accidentally; my point was not that CSD A7 applies to this example, but that the logic behind CSD A7 reflects general consensus for (non-speedy) deletion, and that that logic applies in a (again, non-speedy) way to the vast majority of topics. (I suppose I deserve the chiding, for the original wording, but I'm mostly a tag-and-bag kind of RC patroller unless it's obvious gibberish.) Non-notable websites are deleted for the same reason (if not by the same method) that non-notable people are; there are many, many websites, most of which have no impact beyond the creator and a handful of people mostly known to the creator. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 08:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
        • If you want to state that "non-notable" has consensus in general practice for things other than real people, and that you agree, please do so. It's a valid and common opinion. Connecting it to an official policy that doesn't apply, especially where such consensus for such connection was deliberately rejected, is something that I hope you will not continue to do. Unfocused 16:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per above. Per Trollderella's assertion that notability is not grounds for deletion, it is just not worth taking up the argument. Trollderella, for whatever reason, seems sincerely to believe that as long as something is factual and verifiable, it should not be deleted. Attempts to argue with her/him are futile. Dottore So 09:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Official policy, as opposed to guidelines and common practice, supports Trollderella's assertion in all cases except regarding real persons. Whether right or wrong, "non-notable" simply is not a deletion criteria supported by official policy. Surely we shouldn't criticize someone for supporting the official policy of Wikipedia, even if we don't agree. Further, we shouldn't discount the opinion of someone who is in line with the letter of official policy just because they don't want to discuss the validity of that policy in every AfD. Unfocused 16:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:43, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SandEater

nn character on a video game Cruft Delete --JAranda | watz sup 01:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete. I don't think this even merits mention in the Ninja Gaiden article. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 01:41, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Patent nonsense. D. G. 03:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. There's also the even more content-free Sandeater. 24.17.48.241 08:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. If anything, this should be a part of Ninja Gaiden. It doesn't need it's own page. -Haon 21:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SIGFUD

Probably a hoax. All relevant Google hits are Wikipedia or mirror entries. Delete, perhaps even speedy. — JIP | Talk 05:13, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete but Don't speedy.--Exir Kamalabadi^Esperanza 08:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Lacks any form of verification. --Allen3 ^talk 13:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• BJAODN and speedy delete, obvious (well, obvious to any *nix user) hoax nonsense. ~~ N (t/c) 00:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

  Wait, that was DG's version I saw there. As to JIP's version, still delete as apparently false. JIP, why did you create this and then AFD it? ~~ N (t/c) 14:04, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

• Comment: JIP, why did you create this article if you think it's a hoax? If all the hits are from Wikipedia or mirrors, how did you get the information to create it? Or am I missing something? — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:55, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete probable hoax. Cool3 19:40, 21 October 2005 (UTC) 19:40, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Slip A Buck

• Delete. You guys can go ahead and delete this. I am the proprieter of Slip A Buck. Been working hard these last few weeks trying to get the site off the ground. Talking to artists, getting business stuff squared away, etc.. Looks like somebody got excited and added us before the front page has even been finished. =P Sorry for the trouble. Amazing how you guys found and prepared to delete the entry before I even knew it existed (found the link in my Stats page). Anyway, keep up the great work, and I can't wait til we're notable enough to earn a legitimate entry. =)

Not only is this site non notable, it hasn't opened for business yet. JJay 01:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. - JJay 01:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• If this becomes an influential site, I'd love to see an article on it. Until it does, however, I'm gonna go for delete -- good intentions and crystal balls just aren't enough. -- Captain Disdain 02:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Original Research. D. G. 03:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as per common sense. Freshgavin 04:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Articles about such sites before the site has even opened count as crystal ballism and maybe even blatant advertising. — JIP | Talk 08:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was userfy then delete the resulting redirect. --Celestianpower ^háblame 21:46, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sobiwan

Advert for personal website. 216.126.246.123 12:50, 17 October 2005 (UTC) Got logged out by error. CambridgeBayWeather 12:52, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

• Move to User:Sobiwan with no redirect. --BorgHunter (talk) 13:01, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
• Userfy to User:Sobiwan. feydey 10:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
• Part of the Star Wars Alternate Universe. Not intended for advertising!! Sobiwan