Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Livraria Cultura

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep (non-admin closure) --MPerel 01:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Livraria Cultura

Livraria Cultura (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Delete Non notable store Ave Caesar (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

  • The largest bookstore in a major nation. Easily expandable. See Powell's Books as an excellent example of how it can be expanded. --Oakshade (talk) 00:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. It has a reliable source saying it's Brazil's largest bookseller. If that's not notability then what is? Phil Bridger (talk) 20:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment. Notability isn't based on floorspace! Does this bookstore have any cultural relevance whatsoever? Do they publish important books themselves? Are they historically associated with notable international authors? For a look at a notable bookstore, compare the article on City Lights Bookstore. Qworty (talk) 20:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment. You can answer all of those questions by expanding the article from sources such as these and these and these and these. Just because the article is incomplete it doesn't mean we have to delete it. If that was case we would delete everything, because Wikipedia is a work in progress. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:03, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment. That's an odd argument. We evaluate AfD's on what the article presently consists of, not whether notability might be achieved in the future. And of course it isn't true that every article in the project qualifies for deletion! Qworty (talk) 21:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment. We certainly do not evaluate articles at AfD based solely on what they presently consist of. Notability applies to article subjects, not article content, but anyway, are you really claiming that having a verified claim to be the largest bookseller in the world's fifth most populous country doesn't amount to notability? Just sit back for a few minutes and think about who's making the odd argument here. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

(outdent)Comment. Now you're shifting the terms of the argument. Being the largest bookstore by floor space and being the largest bookseller aren't even the same thing. Nowhere does this article assert that this company sells more books than anyone else in Brazil, or even anybody else in the city where it is located. At best, this article is an example of WP:TRIVIA. Qworty (talk) 21:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Who said anything about floor space apart from you? The source from Publishers Weekly (sic) which was in the article before this AfD started has in its headline "Brazil's Biggest Bookseller". Phil Bridger (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
The article itself states "largest bookstore." That's not the same things as "largest bookseller." Furthermore, the PW article you cite doesn't say anything about this store selling more books in Brazil than any other bookstore. Qworty (talk) 22:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
A store's size doesn't make it notable. Further, the size of the country's population is completely unrelated to whether or not the size of a store within it is notable. A highly populated country's largest store could be a shack next to a disease infested creek. More importantly, a store's notability is not derived from its size relative to other stores but by the depth of coverage concerning the store. If the store is important to people then there should be plenty of sources included in the article to establish that fact. It is not, however, established in the article.--Ave Caesar (talk) 21:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Sources are only required within articles for the purposes of verification. Notability depends on references existing, not on them being in the article. If you would just spend as much time on looking through the search results I linked to above as you do flogging your and Quorty's dead horse of an argument you would see that this is a clearly notable subject. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
WP:V does not state that. Please see WP:CIVIL and WP:DICK. Warm Regards, --Ave Caesar (talk) 01:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) The source from Publishers Weekly is being misused here. It in fact does not say anything about this bookstore selling more books than any other store in Brazil. Rather, it is a story about more floors being added to the bookstore. It is a story about the physical size of the bookstore, which isn't enough to establish notability here. Qworty (talk) 22:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Keep - Largest bookstore in a country of over 185 million people. Confirmed by a reliable source no less. --Oakshade (talk) 00:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. I live in Brazil and I confirm that bookstore is notable in my country. Zero Kitsune (talk) 00:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Strong Keep. Clueless belligerence from a pair of uncivil users doesn't outweigh the many reliable sources demonstrating notability, particularly the many sources found at Google News discussing the high profile the subject enjoys in Brazilian business. The Enchantress Of Florence (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 01:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.