Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of anti-Semites

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete (9 delete, 4 keep, 69%). — FREAK OF NURxTURE (TALK) 11:12, Dec. 17, 2005

[edit] List of anti-Semites

I've thought long and hard about this. There are, for me, at least four fundamental problems with this list. First, the historical context of anti-semitism changed fundamentally after 1945, and it is not possible to compare pre-war and post-war anti-semitism. Second, the degree of anti-semitism expressed is subjective. Some have been removed as not provably anti-semitic, but that leaves everyone else who has ever made a disparaging comment about the Jewish people lumped to gether with Hitler in a sort of listcruft-meets-Godwin. Third, this is precisely the kind of thing categories are for. Editors on an article will notice and revert an inappropriate category; they may well not see addition to a list. Fourth, it seems to me arbitrary to pick anti-semitism. Many of those listed were equal-opportunities bigots, equally vile in their attitude to black people, ethnic Slavs or whatever. So I think this is a flawed concept, not least becaiuse I fail to see how this might have any positive purpose in the context of an encyclopaedia. Other than pursuing a witch hunt, what reason could there be for this list? Surely a few well-chosen articles are quite sufficient to demonstrate the phenomenon of anti-semitism. Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 23:35, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Note: Some of the same points were raised in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of White supremacists - the two articles had many names in common, and I note that the names Voltaire and Hitler came up in discussion in both cases. So those voting may find that debate relevant. - Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] AfD? 22:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep. Responding to the criticism above: The context of anti-semitism has changed, but so has the concept of sexuality, nationality, and race but we have lists of famous gays, Belgians (including those who lived before Belgium was a nation), etc., etc. The degree does not seem to matter in any other list (we don't ask how 'gay' was someone to be listed, or how 'Belgian'). This is an interesting category in that anti-Semitism has been a force that transcends time, place, and other boundaries that bring a really interesting mix of names to the list...like the list of left handed people would do...And yes, some on the list would fit into many other categories but that is not the issue: we don't delete famous left handed gay Belgians from 2 lists and arbitrarily leave them on one that we choose? Carlossuarez46 00:09, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete Slur-fest. It is impossible to list people as anti-Semites without associating them with Hitler. Coverage of this subject needs a lot of context. A list is hopelessly inappropriate. Choalbaton 00:28, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Not an easy vote but a firm one. Some subjects just aren't suitable for list format and this is one of them. An article tracing the history of antisemitism would be useful. A category could be appropriate. I find it irresponsible - bordering on disturbing - to see Bobby Fischer classed alongside Adolf Hitler. Durova 00:35, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete LOL to the above. Antidote 03:19, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete The information isn't relevant enough. List of Anti-Semetic authors, or List of Anti-Semetic works is something that could provide a jumping off point into content that would allow for the development of an understanding of something specific by an interested reader. But, just a list of anti-semites doesn't have any significant information or benefit that I can see. It's too general and vague. V. Alex Brennen 03:27, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. -- JJay 03:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. While some of these are pretty indisputable, there is no way to ever fully avoid POV on this page. David Irving and Jean-Marie Le Pen, both on the list, would (and probably have) denied charges of anti-Semitism. Richard Nixon is a dubious inclusion; he made some very nasty statements about Jews while on tape, but can someone for whom Henry Kissinger, Ben Stein, and other Jews were proud to work for really be an anti-Semite? The total lack of citation is also troubling and will probably never be fixed, leaving readers to wonder why Voltaire or Ludwig Wittgenstein are on the list. Andrew Levine 07:30, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I don't see how proper context and citation can be added to (and maintained) this article while it is in list form. If necessary, each of the individuals whose article already details real or alleged anti-semetism could be added to some new category. -Meegs 07:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Of what use is a list that lumps together Enlightenment philosopher Voltaire and racist, genocidal dictator Adolf Hitler? As pointed out above, this is completely POV, and unmaintainable. It's like making a List of people who have been arrested and then including serial killers alongside public figures who were busted for drugs or some other petty offense. Firebug 08:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep but reorganize into historical eras in order to address some of the concerns mentioned above. — RJH 17:53, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep valid topic. Quotes should be added for posterity.  Grue  17:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
  • But anti-semitism doesn't have a list of anti-semites, so a separate list is necessary.  Grue  07:43, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, Wikipedia is not a collection of random lists. Stifle 00:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, unless you plan to dig up quotes for every single person on the list. Otherwise it just approaches libel. —Slicing (talk) 11:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.