Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lin-wood High School

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Please defer merge related discussion to article talk. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 19:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lin-wood High School

Lin-wood High School (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

It is a public K-12 school article that fails to assert notability Butseriouslyfolks 02:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Delete per nom Veesicle (Talk) (Contribs) 03:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per WP:SCHOOL as most High Schools pass this. -Drdisque 05:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment Aside from the fact that WP:SCHOOL is a proposal, not a guideline, how can it be said that most high schools pass it? I think the converse is true. "A school may be best handled in a separate article if it is the principal subject of multiple reliable independent non-trivial published works." If you show me some, I might change my vote on this article, but I haven't seen one to date. -- Butseriouslyfolks 06:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, unreferenced sub-stub. --Delirium 08:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom Johnn 7 12:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, nn sub-stub with no references; this qualifies for speedy deletion. KillerChihuahua?!? 13:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per above. A non-notable schools and a pretty poorly done article. Soltak | Talk 18:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Merge with the Lincoln, New Hampshire article. That should be sufficient at the current level of development. — RJH (talk) 20:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete, not notable. -Seinfreak37 21:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep My general reasons are here but I was tempted by RJHall's idea, given that the district is so small and the article is such a stubby little thing. But it is part of two different communities, as Butseriouslyfolks points out, so putting a section in one or the other doesn't seem appropriate. It is distinctive in being New Hampshire's only school that covers all grades, which might make it interesting to people studying education. Noroton 21:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per WP:IAR. This article needs improving. --Masterpedia 21:57, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep This is not just a school, it is a school district that covers multiple communities. As a governmental body it has suffucuent standing to justify an article. Alansohn 22:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
This article covers the school, not the district. They are two decidedly different entities. I agree that school districts are notable, most of the schools in those districts aren't. Soltak | Talk 22:35, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep or Merge. Deletion serves no purpose. If merged, a redirect is still needed. --Dystopos 00:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Deletion serves the purpose of removing a worthless article from the server. Soltak | Talk 00:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I do not agree with your appraisal of the article or your estimation of the server requirements. --Dystopos 17:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Why would a redirect be necessary? WP's search function finds terms in articles even when they are not in the title. So does Google . . . Butseriouslyfolks 00:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I'll rephrase. By Wikipedia's typical practices, a redirect would be advisable, though not, given the power of Google, strictly necessary. --Dystopos 17:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Notability is considered a guideline not Wikipedia Policy. Lack of notability is an argument to avoid in deletion discussions WP:AADD. Simply stating that the subject of an article is not notable does not provide reasoning as to why the subject may not be notable. Many editors still consider notability to be a subjective WP:JNN. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability WP:V, not truth. Wikipedia is not a matter of truth. Verifiability is an official policy of Wikipedia. --Masterpedia 03:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment I think it is interesting that you support your argument against a guideline by citing essays, which are even weaker authority. The policy in question here is not WP:V, but WP:NOT. WP:N is a guideline used to implement WP:NOT. Incidentally, a guideline is "generally accepted among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow." It is not something that should be disregarded just because an essay says its ok. Butseriouslyfolks 04:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment WP:NOT is almost always completely irrelevant, other than to mean "anything I have decided doesn't belong on Wikipedia, for which I do NOT want to bother with coming up for a reason". In this case, you haven't even stated what part of WP:NOT you feel this article violates. Alansohn 05:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
        • Comment WP:NOT is a policy. You can abuse it all you want, but we are supposed to follow it. It is one of the rules of engagement here, like it or not. The section of WP:NOT which is primarily relevant here, IMHO, is WP:NOT#DIR. This section of WP policy is implemented through the guideline of WP:N. In plain language, notability distinguishes subjects worthy of articles from the sorts of things that one would only find in a directory. Butseriouslyfolks 05:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
          • Comment Let's take a look at what WP:NOT#DIR actually says: "1. Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). No; 2. Genealogical entries or phonebook entries. No; and, 3. Directories, directory entries, TV/Radio Guides, or a resource for conducting business. No" Unfortunately, humble or otherwise, there is no element of your referenced policy that is relevant here. Alansohn 05:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
            • Comment I see you missed my point. It's #3. Wikipedia is not a directory of schools. If they pass WP:N, they go in. Otherwise, they stay out as directory fodder. Butseriouslyfolks 05:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
              • Comment You just claimed that the relevant issue is WP:NOT#DIR, and insist that this article is a directory of schools. Let's quote #3 in its entirety "Directories, directory entries, TV/Radio Guides, or a resource for conducting business. For example, an article on a radio station generally should not list upcoming events, current promotions, phone numbers, schedules, programme lists, etc., although mention of major events or promotions may be acceptable. Furthermore, the Talk pages associated with an article are for talking about the article, not for conducting the business of the topic of the article. Wikipedia is not the yellow pages." Clearly, it is an article about a school, not a list of them. I don't see anything that looks like "upcoming events, current promotions, phone numbers, schedules, [or] programme lists" in this article. "Directory fodder" is just a rewording of "I can't come up with an actual Wikipedia policy that this article violates so I'm resorting to excuses." Any other suggestions of a relevant Wikipedia policy? Alansohn 05:29, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
              • Comment I guess it's a lot easier to prove me wrong when you misconstrue policy and put words into my mouth. The policy does not merely prohibit 'articles' which are themselves directories. Rather, it declares that 'Wikipedia' itself is not a directory. (Look above the subsection you quoted and you will see the following text: "Wikipedia is not a directory. Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed.") Similarly, I did not insist that the 'article' is a directory of schools. I argued that if every non-notable school is the proper subject of a Wikipedia article, then 'Wikipedia' would become a directory of schools. As you can see, this is touching on WP:NOT#IINFO as well. Butseriouslyfolks 05:45, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
                • Comment You stated above that "The policy in question here is not WP:V, but WP:NOT. WP:N is a guideline used to implement WP:NOT." Which part of policy am I misconstruing and which words am I putting in your mouth? I can only rebut the claims you make. If WP:NOT does NOT apply, then you no longer have an argument. The problem with your quote that "Wikipedia is not a directory. Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed." is that the policy then goes on to state what constitutes such a directory and none of the three items fit. Do you have any other suggestions of a relevant Wikipedia policy? Alansohn 06:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment (Indent reset) You are misconstruing the policy by ignoring the two sentences I quoted in my last post here. You are putting words in my mouth by stating that I am insisting that the article is a directory of schools. You say you can only rebut the claims I make, but you are doing a much better job of rebutting claims I haven't made. Are you saying that WP policies are to be read literally as exhaustive lists and that if another category of item fits the definition but is not within the letter of the law, users are free to disregard the spirit of the law? Butseriouslyfolks 06:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Again, you stated above that "The policy in question here is not WP:V, but WP:NOT. WP:N is a guideline used to implement WP:NOT." Which part of policy am I misconstruing? You have still not demonstrated that this article meets any of the three categories specified in WP:NOT#DIR. If WP:NOT really does mean something here, convince us that it does apply by referencing and quoting actual policy, not merely based on what you're sure it must mean by the "spirit of the law" (use of which term would seem to be a rather clear acknowledgment that it does NOT fit the claimed policy). Alansohn 06:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
        • I'm getting frustrated. You probably are too. I explained my reasoning above. You obviously disagree. I did quote actual policy (with quotation marks and everything!) but I don't see any utility in repeating my argument that WP is not a directory (of high schools), because you'll just repeat your argument to the contrary and we'll continue gainsaying each other indefinitely like some real-life version of a comedic sketch. I agree to disagree. You can do the same or not. I'll even let you have the last word if you want. Have a great day! Butseriouslyfolks 06:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep per -Drdisque reasonsOo7565 05:50, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep a K-12 school meets notability. --Djsasso 06:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom - this school articles fails to assert any notability whatsoever. It meets speedy deletion criteria; those arguing that notability does not apply are applying special pleading. KillerChihuahua?!? 14:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete. Notability neither asserted nor obviously apparent, and references/sources are inadequate. WMMartin 14:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment The notability of the article is the only "single school" SAU (School Administrative Unit) in the state. --Masterpedia 15:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
      • And that makes it notable how? If it were the only school built with brick, would it be notable? The only school with a maple tree? I'm sorry, I dont' see how that is notable at all. KillerChihuahua?!? 16:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I believe the only "single school" SAU (School Administrative Unit) in the state to be the argument of notabilty. If in your opinion this is not notable, based on cockeyed, crazy, loony, and loopy comparisons than your opinion is right. Here is another comparison for you; Every guy has one dick, but this one guy has a double dick. His claim to double dickness is verifiable and has regional interest in San Francisco, however every guy could have a double dick if he went Dan's House of Double Dick Installations, would no longer make the article notable. I understand your argument without the comparisons. Hopefully my articulateness expression on comparisons being useless is understood. --Masterpedia 18:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • My 1st grade teacher just informed me I was rude with my delivery. That being said the comparisons are elementery. Since anyone reading the above comment can conclude this on there own, I figured wikihumor WP:LOL was nesscacery. Please do not take my wikihumor seriously. --Masterpedia 18:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to comment on the facts, without getting back into the keep/delete mishegas, it is the school district that is the only SAU in the state. The subject of the article is the school, not the district. Butseriouslyfolks 19:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • That is completely false. All School districts is NH are SAU's [1]. This is the only single building SAU in the state. --Masterpedia 19:43, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • It's not false, just ambiguous because I shorthanded the sentence. I'll say it again, this time including what I thought was obvious: "It is the school district that is the only SAU in the state [with only one school]." Anyway, it doesn't change the fact that the article is about the district, not the school, so something that makes the district notable would not necessarily make its school also notable. Butseriouslyfolks 20:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep and improve or merge. Cooljeanius 18:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep. Public high schools are inherently worth inclusion. --Elonka 07:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep as article has substantially improved, expanded beyond stub status, with reliable sources. (jarbarf) 23:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.