Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liero

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep and merge all. (except Liero Heroes (Comic) which is almost a speedy deletion candidate as it makes to attempt to assert any sort of notability.) I leave that task to the editors involved in the debate who seem to have found an agreement amongst themselves. Pascal.Tesson 23:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Liero

Liero (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Article gives no indication of notability with multiple independent reliable sources. I am also nominating the following related pages because of the outcome of the Liero Xtreme deletion debate:

LOSP (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Gusanos (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

NiL (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

MoleZ (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Liero Heroes (Comic) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

The purpose of this AfD is for the community to engage in meaningful discussion about what constitutes notability for a computer game, and thereby decide what should be done with these articles. Do not post any comments without posting your reasons backed up with facts. Thank you.Snoopydawg 08:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

• 'Keep'Speedy keepMerge, as outlined by nominator below (i like changing opinion..) Liero is very notable, should be easy adding several reliable sources for that to the article ([1] [2]). That CNN article also makes the situation clear: "NiL is a remake of a little-known title called Liero, a freeware game that runs on DOS." so indeed, it seems by now, many of the remakes got more notable than the original - but in an encylopedia, we should not just go by current popularity but actual notability. And yes, merging some of the less notable clones/remakes into the Liero article might be a good idea, but better let the editors discuss that with a normal merge process, not in an AfD. --Allefant 09:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment What is it exactly that makes Liero a notable game? And which of the articles above would you consider notable enough to warrant their own article (and why)? --Snoopydawg 10:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment Well, seeing now how you was the one who dug up references in the Liero Xtreme AfD, I changed my vote above, as I suspect this is just a case of WP:POINT. And offtopic to this AfD - I would consider Gusanos, NiL and MoleZ notable enough for their own article after a quick google check. Also Liero Xtreme for that matter. But such are the ways of Wikipedia that you need some kind of references saying that the game is notable. With 125000 unique google hits all about Liero Xtreme, I guess it should be possible, so I agree the AfD was closed too soon. Also the way it was closed certainly explains why you did this, an admin stamped delete on it with only a single delete vote, and without anyone having had time to comment on the sources you found - that's not in the least conforming to WP:DGFA or any general sense of how to not anger other editors. But then, unless you think a deletion review has any chance of changing the outcome, better try to ask him for the article and merge the relevant (and sourced) parts into the Liero article, instead of causing another good article (well, i never had a chance to see it :P) get removed by what you try now. --Allefant 11:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Game-related-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 10:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
• Merge everything together. I think that Liero and its remakes and offshoots, taken together, are notable enough for an article. 6 articles is a bit much though. Note that merging could have been done editiorially and does not require an AfD. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Under which name would you suggest that the merge would be (and why)? --Snoopydawg 13:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
    • I don't see any reason in particular not to have the article at Liero. It seems the most logical. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:46, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Comment Even though Liero itself is a clone of MoleZ? --Snoopydawg 16:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
        • MoleZ may have come first, but Liero is a good deal more well-known, and a more likely search term. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy keep, WP:POINT nomination. --Servant Saber 14:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
• Crap like this nomination is the reason I left this hole. Possibly one of the most influential freeware action games ever... the side articles could at worst be merged, but I think the nominator ought to seriously reconsider whether they're contributing to Wikipedia as a serious encyclopedia, or trying to rewrite history to better fit a groupthink social club. Oh, and if anyone screams "OMG anons can't vote", you should ask yourself the same question - are you dedicated to the spread of free knowledge, or just happy to feel self-important by winning the weekly power struggles? (In case you couldn't tell, that's a keep. Not that it counts.) 192.43.227.18 06:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: You really don't see the point do you? --Snoopydawg 08:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

After consideration of facts, the opinions above, and apologizing for this being a case of WP:POINT, i've decided to propose the following:

• • • Keep the article Liero, search for sources, and remove material without sources.
    • Merge Gusanos, NiL, and MoleZ into the Liero article. They are not notable enough or or suffer from such a lack of sources, that it's better off to merge them. Remove material for which sources cannot be found.
    • Delete Liero Heroes (Comic) as non-notable fancruft.
    • Undelete Liero Xtreme, and merge material that sources can be found for into Liero.--Snoopydawg 08:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I support that idea. Also delete LOSP I guess, it already is mentioned in Gusanos, which is probably enough. --Allefant 09:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes, it's probably enough mentioning it in the chapter with Gusanos. --Snoopydawg 09:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Just check the Wikilinks, articles in so many languages. Perhaps you haven't heard of it, but it's a legendary and very well known game among freeware gamers. It has reviews at many places, unliek some other freeware games, thus we can get sources if we want. I'd merge the other "liero-articles" here. --Pudeo⺮ 12:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.