Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Les Tyrell

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Article was clearly based on http://www.thuringowa.qld.gov.au/council/message/biography which makes it a copyvio. Spartaz Humbug! 10:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Les Tyrell

Les Tyrell (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Article on a non-notable mayor of Thuringowa City Council. Was one of 15,481 people to get a Centenary medal, and has been major for a long time. Appears to be part of a walled-garden of articles relating to the City of Thuringowa. Twenty Years 16:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. —Twenty Years 17:40, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Weak keep He's not exactly the prime minister, but he is the mayor of a municipality of almost 60,000, and has been for quite a while. The article needs more cleanup (gosh, do you think this puff-piece article might relate to the upcoming election in March?), but I'm not sure it needs to be deleted outright. Brianyoumans (talk) 21:28, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Below WP:BIO, and below my personal inclusionist criterion for mayors of cities of 100,000 or more. No sources showing that he meets general notability. --Dhartung | Talk 22:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep - for much the same reason as Brianyoumans. Article needs clean-up and more assertion of general notability but does have enough to keep it here. --VS talk 23:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Non notable per WP:BIO. The municipality is being abolished in the next couple of months, and the likelihood of finding independent reliable sources on this topic is at best marginal. Should also be noted it was created by someone who claims to be in regular contact with the individual in question, so may be a WP:COI situation. Orderinchaos 00:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep So what if the municipality is being abolished in the next couple of months, he is running for mayor of Townsville in March and for the life of me can not see why this artical is up for deletion...if you ask me someone has asked someone else to add it because it never worked last time they wanted anything that is to do with Thuringowa deleted. And just for the record So what if i am a friend of the man i only started the artical because i seen it on a list of articals that were needed and if i didn't start it WikiTownsvillian was just about to.Thuringowacityrep (talk) 02:42, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
WP:BIO is pretty clear about state or federal participation. The only councillors or mayors I'd support would have to be notable independently of their municipal role (the exception is Lord Mayors). I most certainly would vote down an article on David Boothman who is the mayor of City of Stirling, which is nearly 3 times the size of Thuringowa and by far the largest in Western Australia, just the same way if he had an article. Orderinchaos 03:11, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. As much as I feel bad for voting to keep Thuringowa-cruft, he's been a mayor of a large municipality for a long time, and verifiable sources are abundant. Rebecca (talk) 03:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete per OIC. Written by an editor with the name of "Thuringowacityrep", it is thinly disguised campaign material. The only sources provided are from the municipality's own website, not quite independent. A mere suburban mayor of a soon to be abolished LGA. -- Mattinbgn\talk 07:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
    Keep Comment Can you people wake up and listen for once, Just because i used thuringowa in my name does not mean that i have anything to do with the council and to say that this is thinly disguised campaign material, well thats's just plain crap, if you look back you will see that [User:WikiTownsvillian] (notice the name) was going to do this artical next but i beat him to it. Plus the page was started back in July 07...well before any talks of the city merging with Townsville or voting in a new mayor...do you how stupid this sounds, So what if Thuringowa city is ending soon, Les will still be here and this is a page about him, i see that the Tony Mooney page is allowed to stay (just see how it is all a bit one sided.)and just because the ref are from the Thuringowa city website is not a cause for deleting the page, you need to put a tag at the top pointing out it need more refs.....really come on now this is really getting petty now and is really starting to show what some people are like on here. Thuringowacityrep (talk) 07:58, 9 January 2008 (UTC) already voted keep above, so changed to comment.
    To prove the point I'm making, find one non-self-published source which states the guy's date of birth, place of birth, and education. This is the problem I have with councillors and mayors generally, and why with possibly only one exception I can recall, I've usually voted against keeping them. Orderinchaos 13:48, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep, long-term mayor of a large city, notable in my book. I'm opposed to arbitary limits based upon city populations to determine who is notable and who is not. Why not 50,000 or 500,000 instead of 100,000? Lankiveil (talk) 13:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC).
  • Comment I would agree that Mayors of large cities are notable, however no matter how much the creator of this article denies it, Thuringowa is not a city in the sense of "large populated urban area". It is a suburban LGA in the greater Townsville area. A Melbourne example may be useful. John So as Mayor of the City of Melbourne is notable. Janet Halsall, the Mayor of the City of Casey (larger than the City of Thuringowa and the City of Melbourne, for that matter) is not. Nearly every suburban municipality in Melbourne is larger than Thuringowa, and I would struggle to say that any of their Mayors are notable. -- Mattinbgn\talk 23:50, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Yeah, very similar situation to the case I was describing with my local mayor (David Boothman in Stirling) - we're a top 10 LGA, only Casey is bigger in Victoria, but there's no way anyone here is notable, unless they've either gone on to serve as state MPs, or been charged by the Corruption and Crime Commission, in which case they meet the independent sources criteria necessary to pass WP:BIO. Should be noted neither Townsville nor Thuringowa have more than half the population of the 25th listed entry at List of cities in Australia by population (third table). Orderinchaos 13:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • reply to comment The issue i have here is that why is it only the Thuringowa mayor that is up for deletion...and tell me why the Townsville mayor Tony Mooney is ok and why is George Colbran ok, and Lindy Nelson-Carr do i need to keep going....it looks like a pick on Thuringowa yet again, and you know you can see what i mean —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thuringowacityrep (talk • contribs) 03:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS for some tips. If you feel that the other articles about non-notable subjects, nominate them for deletion. However, given that Nelson-Carr is a minister I am not quite sure why she gets a mention. I personally would be inclined to keep Mooney and delete Colbran, but that is just my opinion and this is not really the place for that discussion. -- Mattinbgn\talk 03:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Isn't Lindy Nelson-Carr a state MP (and in fact a Queensland Government minister)? Orderinchaos 13:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - there's two core standards for a political figure to achieve notability - either a current or former holder of an automatically notable office (eg. member of a state or national legislature) or a significant political figure independent of any particular office. "Significant political figure" is defined at WP:BIO as has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists. Tyrell does not hold an automatically notable office. It is not clear from the article or a quick internet search if he meets the "significant politicial figure" standard. To resolve this debate, can anyone provide links to the in-depth independent coverage required? Euryalus (talk) 23:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Look for yourself. A search of Factiva comes up with plenty of reliable sources, as would be expected of a mayor which as long a service as Tyrell. I detest it when people would rather vote delete than actually do their own research. Rebecca (talk) 04:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
      • I assume this is not directed at me, as I have not voted Delete or anything else. I don't have access to Factiva so the sources you refer to aren't immediately available to me. A simple internet search turned up nothing much but I agree with your comment below about google - generally where I can find some good sources I add them to the relevant article directly, then vote Keep in AfD's. In this case I couldn't find any but am willing to reserve judgement in case anyone else can. Euryalus (talk) 03:06, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
  • OK here is a small list of Ref's that are not self published, i am doing this to prove a point to a few editors on here, plus i will be adding these ref's to the page itself...here we go...

1: [1]
2: [2] (see number 8)
3: [3].
This wasn't hard and i was not going to go looing at the other 200,000+ links i found buy typing in his name on Google —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thuringowacityrep (talk • contribs) 05:23, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Folks, Google is not the be all and end all of searching. None of those three that Thuringowacityrep linked are particularly good sources, but there are plenty of newspaper articles on Factiva - at least enough to make a quite decent article about the man. If verifiable sources is supposed to be the criterion we use today, then why are we still here? They're there in abundance. Rebecca (talk) 06:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep The article needs a total re-write but its subject seems notable. The Townsville Bulletin is an obvious starting point for reliable sources on this topic as it seems to be an OK quality local newspaper. --Nick Dowling (talk) 11:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • KEEP I just looked at the article and it is as good as any of the other articles about mayors etc take Tony Mooney, John H. Campbell or Maureen Hayes just to name a few, i do feel that it could use a bit of a re-write but other than that it seems fine. RockandRolldownunder (talk) 03:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Per nom, Dhartung, and OIC, as not meeting WP:BIO. NN person of a small LGA soon to disappear who is not notable outside such a small realm. Fully support the nominator's rationale in regards to the walled garden status of this and many other articles by it's creator. Thewinchester (talk) 11:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.