Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lebowski Fest

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lebowski Fest

Well-advertised but not notable festival in Louisville; only three years running and based on a film of narrow following. The idea that any well-advertised festival would be considered encyclopedic material would cause the Wikipedia to be flooded with articles that don't belong here. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 19:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep. Their press page [1] and a Google search make it look pretty notable to me. William Pietri 20:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep The nom. begs the question by describing the festival as "not notable." How is the Big Lebowski, one of the most popular movies of the last decade, "a film of narrow following"? Now, a festival may not deserve its own page simply because it is "well-advertised," but why should that fact be held against it absent evidence of how many people attend? Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi
  • Comment: As a Louisville resident, compared to many other events in town, I never hear of anyone talking about this one--I see signs, but no local news reviews or chatter. And the idea that this movie is popular is laughable. Absent evidence of movie and especially festival popularity, this subject is not notable. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 20:25, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Hi, Stevie. If you don't consider articles in The New York Times [2] and The Guardian [3] evidence of notability, what will it take to convince you? Thanks, William Pietri 20:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
      • It's proof of very good advertising/promotion. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 20:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
        • As far as I know, that someone's notability is ill-gotten isn't a cause for deletion. Otherwise I'd be first in line to nominate Paris Hilton, who seems only notable for being notable. William Pietri 20:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
          • Paris Hilton is notable for being a member of a well-known American family, and has appeared in movies and tv shows. Lebowski Fest is a very young festival of little note (with narrow interest and narrow press coverage). Hmmm.... Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 20:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
    • When you say that "the idea that this movie is popular is laughable", I first thought you meant that you think it's ridiculous that the movie is popular. But are you saying that it isn't popular? You should read The Big Lebowski. I'm not very fond of the film myself, but they are correct in calling it a cult classic. Here in San Francisco, for example, they show it every year on 4/20 [4]. And it's not the only local Lebowski event: [5]. William Pietri 20:58, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Marginal. Perhaps if the article covered all the festivals more thoroughly, and the movie's article did a better job of explaining how the movie is a cult classic, I might have a changeable mind on this. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 21:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment: I would also ask reviewers to consider the idea that this festival is more a marketing push by a small Louisville business than a notable festival. I don't normally put articles up for deletion, but I thought this one was especially worthy due to it being virtually a self-promoting marketing creation. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 20:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I move for a Speedy keep. Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi
    • That would be fine by me. William Pietri 20:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
    • The triumph of great promotion? At least let it go through the process. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 20:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Not on your life. Speedy keep is not a viable option, as you have not proven that this "fest" is notable. The claim alone that The Big Lebowski' is "one of the most popular movies of the last decade" has not been proven. Delete, non-notable festival. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
      • I was actually basing my motion for Speedy Keep on the citation of the Guardian and NYT articles above, both of which establish the notability of the festival. Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi
        • That is your interpretation. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete, clearly NN. Louisville contributors are sometimes overzealous in detail and volume. Please try to find some other article to wrap this up in. WP:NOT a tool for severely exaggerating the importance of local art events. There are plenty of encyclopedic topics in Louisville and this is clearly not one. My Alt Account 00:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Comment On what basis do you say this was created by someone from Lousville? And why would that even matter? Allon FambrizziAllon Fambrizzi
  • Keep, national and international coverage demonstrated by William Pietri. Describing the film as being "of narrow following" seems rather ill-informed. Kappa 02:49, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
  • The question of whether the film The Big Lebowski is hugely popular or largely unknown has no bearing on this discussion. We are not discussing deleting The Big Lebowski, but Lebowski Fest, which is a whole other ball of wax. The 2 year old New York Times article comes close to establishing notability, but if you actually read the article, it's David Edelstein using the Lebowski Fest (noting "I suspect this will grow old pretty quickly...") as an excuse to talk about the movie. So, on balance, I come down on the delete side of things. Put in an external link to the festival on The Big Lebowski page; we don't need an article on every convention in the world. Nandesuka 04:07, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Notability demonstrated by national press coverage. Royalbroil 04:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep The nom makes the case for retention. In a mass media culture, anything well advertised becomes notable for that fact alone. This festival may not be covered in local newspapers, but it has gained international recognition by being featured in The Guardian, which is a UK national paper with a good reputation for covering the arts. It would be a disservice to wikipedia if google searches let The Grauniad (as it is popularly known) monopolise the field and wiki was nowhere to be seen. Stevietheman might like to study Begging the question before composing future noms. :) Tyrenius 06:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
  • KEEP: The movie's oft-repeated, well-known catchphrases, all across the country ("the dude abides," "nice marmot," etc, etc. Tee-shirts, bumper stickers, and the like), attest to its status as a cult classic film with a small, but noteworthy subculture attached. Not just a following, but a subculture, I'd say. And Lebowski Fest is connected to that subculture. The movie's status as a cult classic would give credit to the entry of Lebowski Fest within the encyclopedia, as it serves as a reference point for those wishing to further study the subculture associated with the film. And I suspect that as the subculture grows into a long-standing and popular trend (akin, perhaps, to Deadheads?), the removal of the entry would only prove to be a mistake, as it would need to be re-added once the festival proves without question to be a notable event. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lkmerc02 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 14 September 2006 - User's only edit
  • Keep. A fair amount of actual press coverage (I mean, a cover story for the Guardian's The Guide? And throw in Scott Simon interviewing the founders on Weekend Edition Saturday [6], which I heard through, as I recall, their "Most E-Mailed Stories" podcast, so yeah, it's non-trivial. --Calton | Talk 04:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.