Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Larisa Arapdate=2007 August 9

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Singularity 01:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Larisa Arap

• I suggest to remove this clause. It does not represent encyclopaedic value. Not big enough event. This person practically was not known in city in which lives. Propably a self-proclaimed.--Jaro.p 16:51, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

• ??? This article is so poorly written that it's almost impossible to tell what exactly it's about. The "assertion of notability" is the weirdest I've ever seen: "For July-August, 2007, the searchch for Larisa Arap had returned 104 entries; the searchch for Лариса Арап had returned 105 entries. Most of these entries are blogs, but there are tens of articles in serious newspapers and journals. Mainly, Larisa Arap is discussed in Russian, Ukrainian and English. Such a wide publicity requires serious analysis." Is this a joke??? --Targeman 17:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, possible speedy as patent nonsense. I would speculate on notability, but I can't figure the bloody thing out at all. Realkyhick 18:36, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Users 62.105.155.114 and Jaro.p had suggesed deletion of the article the same day it was created. This indicates that their motivation has political reasons. The article itself is neutral. Targeman: this is not joke; not 104 entries, but 10^4 entries; not 105 entries, but 10^5 entries. (Please confirm if your graphical interface allows to see the difference between 105 and 10^5=100000). In addition, since that time, the number of entries twiced; in addition, we should count also the entries for "Larissa Arap" (similar order of magnitude). Sorry, I late answering the question by Targeman (I just saw the error in his/her estimates), but it is not yet too late. Please, remove the unappropriate tag. dima 00:07, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

• Keep but it needs blanking and rewriting by editors who realise this is the English language Wikipedia. Google News finds plenty of references to the story (eg BBC. She's a political activist who is detained in a Russian hospital. Gordonofcartoon 20:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) The article appears to have been written by someone whose mother tongue is other than English. The subject does get coverage in a number of media outlets including the Washington Post, New York Sun, the BBC, and others, as well as 12,000 regular Google hits. I suspect there's notability, but it's not likely to be expressed in this version. Start fresh might be the best approach - but, it appears to be a continuing situation, so that might throw things off a bit. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:53, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Speedy keep and rewrite per the two above me. --Sethacus 21:07, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

• Keep This is current event. Sure English needs some work. Any volunteers? User:Abune 21:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I'm not sure if the person has any historic notability to get past WP:NOT#NEWS. I could not gather enough from the article to make a judgment Corpx 04:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep the article. The first dratf is not perfect. If you see errors, indicate them at the page of discussion, not here. As for the Russian version, the same users suggest the removal (удалить) and asphyxia (удавить), and then edit the paper, justifying the removal. You have no need to speak Russian in order to check this; please, do it now, while the paper is available. dima 05:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep she became notable Alex Bakharev 05:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Comment to Corpx. This seems to be a news story that has lasted over a month now. Radio Free Europe's website says she was detained on July 6. Outside of that, she seems "modestly" known for her work, in the realm of mental health, with the United Civil Front, a protest group led by Garry Kasparov.--Sethacus 05:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep more than enough sources. Just needs a translation in progress notice, DGG (talk) 10:08, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. I agree that the article isn't well written, especially concerning the language, however it's just matter of time to bring order to it. Note that it's current event and the article was created recently. The topic is pretty notable and has a lot of sources. And last but not least: please do not allow pro-Putin users censor English Wikipedia. RedAndr 15:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
• Comment: I just spent a very large chunk of time attempting to fix the many errors. Obvious spelling errors, obvious tense errors, grammatical errors, and more and more I've come to suspect that this was copied from somewhere, and using some online translator (or babelfish, whatever the name) pasted into English. The misuse of so many basic errors, goes beyond a simple "poor English" writer. While I have no personal comments on the validity or the notability of the article's subject, here are my concerns:

• It needs to be completely re-written by someone who speaks the language of origin, and has an advanced grasp of English. The current article is extremely difficult to follow, even after I've fixed most of the obvious, egregious errors.
• It needs someone to get English references into it. Unfortunately, the majority of the references are in a foreign language, and therefore of little use to the English reader who doesn't speak that language (and thereby unverifiable by English readers, as well).
• The issue of WP:NOT#NEWS for now at least, it seems to be newsworthy. However, we are to consider the long-term historical notability of persons and events, and to that, only time will tell. If it does not remain notable in the historical perspective, the valid information could possibly be merged into another article, perhaps there is some article that details mistreatment of patients at certain facilities (I've no clue, just a thought), and it could be merged into that. ^Ariel♥Gold 22:40, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Please see this revision to compare current article with article at the time AfD was listed. I've done quite a bit of work and it looks quite different, so I thought I'd provide the link to the last revision prior to my undertaking the task of re-writing. (I'm still working on it with a Russian editor.)^Ariel♥Gold 23:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Important political dissident, widely known example of reintroduction of Soviet era political punishment in Russia.--Molobo 06:23, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep The article is now much clearer and there are reliable sources in English[1] for verification. It's really just a question in my mind, since the article is about a single event, Arap's detention, whether it is more appropriate for Wikinews but clearly if the article can be filled out with other information about Arap, it can become a encyclopedic article. --Malcolmxl5 12:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep A Google search shows coverage of the imprisonment of this political activest in major newspapers of the UK, the US, Turkey, France, and other countries. It is said to be a return to Soviet era false imprisonment of antigovernment activists in psychiatric hospitals without cause. The present Wikipedia article relies on text apparently written by non-native speakers of English working from mostly Russian newspapers. The case has substantial coverage in multiple reliable sources, and addresses the encyclopedic issue of the use of psychiatric hospotals to silence dissidents. This particular case seems notable in itself. The article can be improved by the efforts of fluent speakers of English who can use the following sources not yet referenced in the article about the forced hospitalization of Ms. Arap: See [2] The Independent, "Russian dissident 'forcibly detained in mental hospital'" by By Alastair Gee, 30 July 2007. See [3] "Activist sent to mental clinic: Russian opposition" in Washington Post, By Olesya Dmitracova, from the Reuters press wire service, Monday, July 30, 2007. See [4] "Russian dissidents called mentally ill. Soviet-era practice revived, activists say." by Alex Rodriguez, the Chicago Tribune, August 7, 2007. See [5] "Russian Dissident Forced Into Mental Hospital." by Adrian Blomfeld, The Daily Telegraph, (reprinted in the New York Sun) July 31, 2007. See [6] "U.S. Consul Not Planning to Visit Journalist Larisa Arap at Mental Hospital." Interfax wire service, 2 August 2007, 21:19 CDT. See [7] "Psychiatric abuse claim in Russia . Russia's official human rights investigator says it will investigate allegations of psychiatric abuse against an opposition activist." BBC news, Wednesday, 1 August 2007, 14:15 GMT 15:15 UK . See [8] "Appeal as Russian writer is held in psychiatric clinic." by Chris Stephen, The Scotsman, July 30, 2007. Edison 19:33, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I'd just like to make another comment. I've been working with Dima on the translation (on the article's talk page), and I've advised him/her that it would likely need re-writing, and I've promised that I'm willing to do that if the article is kept. I believe the article at this point, has notability to keep it, but perhaps in the future, would need to be merged into other articles, as suggested by Edison on the talk page. Edison brought in a great amount of valid, respected references for English, and I'd use those to re-write the article, and I'd remove all the Russian text that is there, as it is extraneous. I will not vote on this article, for the simple reason that I actually did not notice the AfD notice until after I'd started working on it, and at that point, I felt that to vote on it would be slightly COI-ish. However I would just like to assure anyone that I'm completely willing to write this, should the decision be made to keep it, and Domitori (Dima) is more than willing to help me with the initial translations from Russian to English when needed. He/She is actually extremely helpful, and can give the rough translation, after which I can convert into the article. I would also like to express gratitude to Edison for providing the many awesome links. Thanks, ^Ariel♥Gold 20:00, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep the article. Most probably, the article has been written by someone whose mother tongue is other than English. Regarding some events and persons from Russia, the findings in the web are not representative for the relevance. Some ongoing events are not well-known in the Western world, also due to the difficulty to acceed to not translated sources. --QIrus 07:10, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep The article is noteworthy enough despite its poor translation. This case has been covered in several leading newspapers and is still in the public attention. --Hillock65 12:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per above.Biophys 23:37, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.