Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Landon Pigg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 02:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Landon Pigg

Fails WP:BIO, WP:BAND - this article has been speedied at least once already, so here it is. Rklawton 14:14, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Strong Keep, speedy if nom withdrawn. Major label artist, multiple television appearences, multiple pieces of non-trivial media coverage... is it just that the nominator hasn't heard of the subject? PT ^(s-s-s-s) 17:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

  He's got just one album that's been out less than a week. Where's the notability in that? Not everything RCA produces is notable, and the requirement for inclusion here is notability first. Rklawton 17:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

  He already has mulitple pieces of non-trivial media coverage. He is making multiple television appearences on major networks this week. There are lots of music acts on Wikipedia deemed "notable" that do not have the same coverage. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 17:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

  He's getting the coverage due to RCA's marketing machine. Let's wait to see if this is all flash or if he's got any substance. In the mean time, we don't create articles based on speculation. Rklawton 18:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Keep. I agree with PT and think it's notable. Artist had some media coverage, and it looks like it's probably going to continue. xompanthy 18:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

  We shouldn't look at what might happen. We should look only at what is verifiable. Rklawton 19:03, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. What part of WP:BAND do any of you claim this fellow fulfills? Maybe two weeks from now he might ... and maybe he won't at that. In any event, he does not now fulfill any, and Wikipedia still isn't a crystal ball. RGTraynor 19:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Has gone on a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country, reported in notable and verifiable sources. Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media. He's on All Music Guide, billboard.com, vh1.com, and 418 unique Google hits ain't shabby, either. This isn't my first music-related AfD, boys. Don't be willfully ignorant when the information is right in front of you. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 21:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
    • That's the second time you've accused someone of being ignorant in the Pigg AfD. That's a violation of WP:CIVIL and I ask you to stop immediately. Rklawton 21:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
      • As that is irrelvant to the discussion about this topic, please refer to our respective talk pages for the continuation of any discussion on the subject of my civility, your ignorance, or the lack thereof of either. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 21:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
        • Comment: really? What national concert tour would that be, now, and in what sources precisely would that be reported? Whether this is your first music-related AfD or not isn't the issue -- although it isn't "my" first one either, to the degree that I can claim it to be "mine." It's whether the claims are verifiable. Mind doing so? RGTraynor 04:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
          • It's in this AfD and the article, too. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 17:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Weak keep. The VH1 and Billboard coverage are both reprints of Allmusic material, but he's on their radar, at least. Worst case, some researcher for VH1 finds this in 15 years for a "Where are they now" special. :) —C.Fred (talk) 22:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Brand new artist isn't notable enough. Allisonmontgomery69 23:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep He's going to be on Late Night with Conan O'Brien in two nights, will be on Last Call with Carson Daly next month, had a song on Grey's Anatomy [1], and Radio & Records shows nationwide airplay [2]. That should be enough to satisfy WP:MUSIC. --Joelmills 01:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep, meets WP:MUSIC criteria (barely). —Stormie 10:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per above. --badlydrawnjeff talk 10:57, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  Comment read the article. Then read WP:MUSIC and tell us exactly which point he satisfies. Rklawton 16:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  I think the adds + Conan + Grey's Anatomy easily do it. Since you're pressing me, a look at his website shows even more television appearances, he's doing a radio tour currently, and multiple media mentions (Teen Vogue, Glamour, Perfoming Songwriter). Easily meets the guideline, a guideline which states "Please note that the failure to meet any of these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted." --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  And absolutely none of that is in the article. Rklawton 17:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  It is now. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 17:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• comments: (1) Isn't that really just Ashton Kutcher? (2) Damn it pisses me off that these stupid mega lables can make somebody notable, but it is pretty obvious that if he doesn't meek criteria now, he will pretty soon--and that isn't just crystal-balling Joelmills has cited it all above. no vote -MrFizyx 17:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• There is the possibility that we've all been punk'd by RCA. (OK, OK, I'll knock it off) -MrFizyx 18:47, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• Point by Point Analysis
  1. Pigg has one album. WP:MUSIC calls for two.
  2. Pigg's music is on Grey's anatomy. WP:MUSIC calls for a theme song, and if that's the only claim, it suggests a redirect. Pigg has one song that appears in two episodes – and not as its theme.
  3. Pigg is in a national rotation. WP:MUSIC calls for a rotation on a national radio network. Pigg is in a website rotation and not a radio network.
  4. Pigg has talk show bookings. WP:MUSIC makes no allowances for publicity tours.

  The short of it is that he has one album out, it's been out not even two weeks, and his article has been speedy deleted once already. Maybe he'll make it big. Maybe he won't. Lot's of big-label new releases fail. It doesn't matter. Wikipedia isn't a crystal ball. Rklawton 17:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Let me refute these:
    1. No debate here. The Raconteurs, Anna Waronker, and Be Your Own Pet only have one album out, too, but meet other criteria, much like Pigg does.
    2. WP:MUSIC actually says "Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g. a theme for a network television show." A theme is an example, not the only rationale. His music has been performed on shows, and he's done live performances on notable media. He certainly meets this criteria.
    3. This is tough to say, although registering as a major add on Records and Radio make this an arguable one.
    4. WP:MUSIC simply says national tour. A national publicity tour is still a national tour.
  • Crystal ballism simply doesn't apply here, as we can verify his past and future appearances per the WP:NOT guideline. The article is fine. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:01, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Thank you for the rebuttal. I think we are now clear about the cause of our disagreements, and that's a great step forward. My summary then is that Pigg's song appears on two episodes of one TV show, and he has/will perform live on his national publicity tour. I strongly suspect that "national tour" was meant to mean "a tour that people would actually pay money to go see." I think we should all resist a big label's attempt to buy an encyclopedic article for one of its performers without him/her actually earning the privilege through talent and hard work. Rklawton 18:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Perhaps it did. He still meets other criteria, and whether it's "a big label's attempt to buy an encyclopedic article for one of its performers" is irrelevant, really. We base encyclopedicness on a series of subjective criteria, and he meets it, so I'm not sure where the protest comes from. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
        • The protest comes from the discussion of the points we've had above. If there are other criteria not already discussed, please note them. Rklawton 18:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
          • Rklawton, you chided me earlier for making "assumptions." You are making assumptions about this performer and his talent/hard work or lack thereof. I also think you're disrupting Wikipedia to make a point, though certainly not to a high degree (AfDs are infamous for these kind of discussions... I'm just not sure why you're so passionate in this particular case). At this point, both sides have been presented, and I think it's time for other editors to have a turn to make a decision for themselves, and perhaps we should suspend our contributions to this discussion and let the AfD ride out. No reason for the people who have already commented on here to harp on further about their opinions. PT ^(s-s-s-s) 18:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
            • I'm looking at his article and it's bleak: one album, two tv episodes playing his song, and a publicity tour. The assumption is that this somehow makes him notable. Rklawton 19:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
              • How many more times do you plan on repeating yourself? PT ^(s-s-s-s) 20:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
          • Well, of the points above, we have one agreement, one disagreement of the interpretation of the touring requirement, and one where you were incorrect and he meets. None of your points discuss the multiple media mentions that are clearly linked and displayed on his website, either, so we have two absolutely certain ones. I also haven't had any luck finding past tour information for him, but I have a feeling he's actually done a tour on his own, too. That's two definitely verifiable parts of WP:MUSIC he meets in any case, and, past that, I'll re-paste what WP:MUSIC says here: "Please note that the failure to meet any of these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted." Given everything we know about him, deletion seems misguided. --badlydrawnjeff talk 18:24, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
          • I grouped the multiple media mentions under the category of "publicity tour," and argue that publicity tours are not notable - they are a routine part of the entertainment business. The fact that you think he's had a previous tour is certainly not verifiable and not grounds for passing WP:MUSIC. Lastly, and for the sake of honesty, let's share the whole quote: "Please note that the failure to meet any of these criteria does not mean an article must be deleted; likewise, the meeting of any of these criteria does not mean that an article must be kept." Rklawton 18:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
            • "I also haven't had any luck finding past tour information for him, but I have a feeling he's actually done a tour on his own, too." Excuse me? That's "verification?" Our feelings are completely irrelevant. Either he has -- and you can verify that -- or he hasn't. Wishful thinking cannot come into play. RGTraynor 19:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
              • OK, the arguments have been made. Maybe the four of us should let other editors comment now? This page is getting crowded! (P.S. MrFizyx, you should write an article about the Ashton Clone Conspiracy. It's obviously everywhere, we just need reliable sources to cite to prove it!). ;) PT ^(s-s-s-s) 19:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
              • I knew I shouldn't have mentioned my suspicions of the tour (and I wasn't trying to pass it off as a rock-solid rationale, for the record). My point is simple - he has multiple media mentions (even outside of the tour) and has had his music performed on notable media (Conan, Grey's Anatomy). Take it as you wish, Isuppose. --badlydrawnjeff talk 19:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Obviously fulfills WP:MUSIC per information cited in the above discussion. Amazinglarry 19:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.