Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Konquest (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. east.718 at 19:07, 11/3/2007

[edit] Konquest

Konquest (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The game seems to fail WP:N, since no reliable secondary sources are known. Only one review from a user-generated content site is given. Relisting from a mass nomination in January. -- Sent here as part of the Notability wikiproject. --B. Wolterding 14:38, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Non-notable game; inclusion in linux distributions does not confer notability.Chardish 16:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. As the article states it, "ships with the KDE desktop environment." That makes it on par with Hearts and Minesweeper which ship with Windows. The topic is notable; the article needs improvement (not deletion). Mdmkolbe 17:01, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
• Weak Delete - In no way on par with Minesweeper et al, given the scarcity of mention by secondary/tertiary sources. Keep and rewrite if adequate sources found to back up case for note. Reads like a guide rather than an encyclopedic article. MrZaius^talk 21:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
• STRONG KEEP its a game that ships with KDE so it is notable. It is a game, why does a game need to have secondary citations? Go download it and you can see for your self that it is all true, and the parts that you can't see are in the source code that is available. For example do you expect an article on wikipedia on how to edit to need citations when it is only an explanation. Anyone can see it is true very quickly. Where would you cite it? wikipedia edit page? --Adam1213 Talk 00:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Reply: This is not a question of verifiability but of notability. As with any other topic, an article on the game is only warranted if there has been coverage in independent sources, per the WP:N guideline. Among other reasons, only these allow to write a NPOV article. Inclusion in a distribution / program package does not imply independent coverage - there are thousands of programs shipping with any Linux distribution, most of which are non notable. If the topic is relevant enough in the context of KDE it might be mentioned in that article - for covering it in a separate article, independent sources have to be found per WP:N. --B. Wolterding 13:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
    • REPLY': The article contains mainly facts that any one could see as correct by playing the game / reading the source. It is hard for an article containing only facts to contain much POV. Most of the games that ship with Linux distributions have articles. Having a game included with Linux distributions means that there is a high chance that someone will find the game and want to know more about it. Konquest is part of KDE games --Adam1213 Talk 00:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
      • That's the point - the article is written only from primary sources. In its current form, it just iterates the rules of the game etc.; it's not so much an encyclopedia article, but an entry for a software catalog. And since secondary sources are missing, the article cannot be expanded beyond that. Wikipedia is not a software catalog - that would also be unnecessary, since dozens of good software catalogs already exist. For an encyclopedia, only notable topic qualify - those with secondary coverage. --B. Wolterding 20:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
• Delete per nom and Chardish. Doctorfluffy 07:14, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Even Minesweeper cites no reference, but still needs improvement Nunting 12:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
• question are the various parts of kde considered all notable, or if not, what are the distinctions?DGG (talk) 22:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Answer KDE in itself is notable, as would be any mostly integral part of the KDE environment (such as Konqueror or KHelpcenter), but as it is, Konquest is just a minor game that coincidentally gets shipped with KDE distributions. It just doesn't count as a part of KDE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.186.243.3 (talk) 19:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
• Comment. Seems to be a victim of operation system bias. I looked at the packaged Windows games and most only state their website rather than independent sources and also have a game guidish flavor. Should I nominate any of them I'm pretty sure that Keepers will say: "are you sure?", "keep and improve", "sources are easy to find" and even "bad faith nom". Anyways, I saw some books in a Google Book search that do mention the game but only in passing. With those references alone one can only merge the article as a section in the kdegames article. --Lenticel ^(talk) 23:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
  • Operating system bias? Just for the case it is of any relevance, typing "uname -o" on my computer returns "GNU/Linux", but typing "uname -bias" results in an error message. --B. Wolterding 11:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Keep it. Tis a good game. KDE is big, this game is fun. If we delete this article we should then delete http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Pinball by the same token. Both are notable. Please can we not kill off open source on an open source based site and provide some balance. Dbmoodb 12:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. This software is included in many distros with KDE. Admittedly, the source in the external links isn't so great (there are many factual errors in the review), but I remember the game being included in a roundup of "best Linux games" some months back in one of the Linux magazines - maybe Linux Format. --Groggy Dice T | C 01:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.